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[Oppo]

Generalizing Pakistanis as a whole is something I'd consider racist, maybe I just don't know the proper term for when you're talking about a group of people from a single country but I am pretty sure its still called racism.

I'm not saying don't ridicule these people asking for hangings, anyone who would support killing a person from a drawing isn't someone I'd defend. I'm saying a lot of these responses are generalizing Pakistanis as a whole in a bigoted and disgusting manner. I only quoted Aquamarine because she is one of the more rational posters on GAF and what she said just shocked me.

You jumped at "Pakistan"; the generalization seemed more aimed at Muslims in general, the way I read it.

And it's a lot more than 200 people protesting; people read the article. This is spreading across multiple countries.

I thought maninthemirror would have showed up by now

 

[knkng]

Looks eerily like the early 1940s to me based on the salute.

Death to those who speak ill of the Führer! Oops, I mean Prophet...

 

[Dingotech]

free speech is a joke, and people defend it when they like what's being said.

You're a joke seriously.

 

[ZiZ]

Lol. Didn't you just say those guys demanding the death of the cartoonists is free speech? I guess you like what's being said.

it is speech, and they shouldn't be allowed to do it freely.

 

[DOWN]

200 dudes protesting is a small victory indeed.

This was in one skirmish. The protests were called by Pakistan's largest Islamist party and are occurring in numerous cities, according to the article.

 

[Aquamarine]

You jumped at "Pakistan"; the generalization seemed more aimed at Muslims in general, the way I read it.

it was. i've never been a fan of islam, and i legitimately think muhammad was a dead cult leader + warlord.

i know the people of pakistan suffer an awful lot of problems, i know these are just a bunch of radicals born into a horrible situation, and i know there are loads of people in pakistan who don't think that way or support these radicals.

but i'm still not a fan of islam or their "prophet."

 

[Ashes]

it was. i've never been a fan of islam, and i legitimately think muhammad is a dead cult leader + warlord.

i know the people of pakistan suffer an awful lot of problems, i know these are just a bunch of radicals born into a horrible situation, and i know there are loads of people in pakistan who don't think that way or support these radicals.

but i'm still not a fan of islam or their "prophet."

What books have you been reading?

 

[le.phat]

these guys must have like 200 vactation days a year or something.

 

[Kezen]

it was. i've never been a fan of islam, and i legitimately think muhammad is a dead cult leader + warlord.

i know the people of pakistan suffer an awful lot of problems, i know these are just a bunch of radicals born into a horrible situation, and i know there are loads of people in pakistan who don't think that way or support these radicals.

but i'm still not a fan of islam or their "prophet."

Thankfully there are very reasonable muslims who can accept the society we live in while being faithful to their religion. We should not paint them all with the same brush.

 

[FZZ]

You jumped at "Pakistan"; the generalization seemed more aimed at Muslims in general, the way I read it.

And it's a lot more than 200 people protesting; people read the article. This is spreading across multiple countries.

I thought maninthemirror would have showed up by now

How is generalizing Muslims any better than Pakistanis? You're still generalizing a group of people, although since its a religion it wouldn't be called racism but still.

it was. i've never been a fan of islam, and i legitimately think muhammad was a dead cult leader + warlord.

i know the people of pakistan suffer an awful lot of problems, i know these are just a bunch of radicals born into a horrible situation, and i know there are loads of people in pakistan who don't think that way or support these radicals.

but i'm still not a fan of islam or their "prophet."

So you think Islam is a cult?

 

[Aquamarine]

Thankfully there are very reasonable muslims who can accept the society we live in while being faithful to their religion. We should not paint them all with the same brush.

totally.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

It is starting to get hard to argue with his point about hundreds of millions supporting the attack when a country with almost 200 million muslims decides to show their disdain of the terrorists by condemning the cartoons.


It is a fucked up Muslim majority country containing more than 10% of the world's Muslim population.

In Karachi, at least three people were injured during the clashes between police and about 200 protesters, who were mostly student activists from Jamaat-e-Islami.

200 protesters gaf, What the actual fuck are the people in this thread talking about. FUCK

 

[shinra-bansho]

So you think Islam is a cult?

Is there a problem with that?

I don't really see any issue with viewing it as a cult based around a dead warlord.
Nor that Christianity is a bunch of people worshiping some Middle Eastern carpenter.
And so on and so forth.

 

[jelly]

There should a version of that Southpark picture after finding porn on the internet. Unwind the lunatics. Google internet ballons, cheap Chinese computers, free porn.

 

[Dingotech]

200 protesters gaf, What the actual fuck are the people in this thread talking about. FUCK

We are talking about people willing to kill other people over a cartoon.

 

[Ashes]

Is there a problem with that?

Goodness gracious me.

 

[SimleuqiR]

This happened in my city today too (Amman, Jordan). Crowds were marching towards the French embassy and demanding to end cooperation with governments that allow insults to Islam to be published. There were clashes with police and arrests.

Slightly ironic considering our king and queen marched in Paris earlier this week.

source (Arabic)

So was Bill Maher right?

 

[FZZ]

Is there a problem with that?

I'm done.

Alright everyone don't try to get the discussion here too messy. I've stated everything I wanted to don't think I have much more to say.

 

[Dead Man]

it is still free speech.

So fucking what if it is? It's vile, and anyone who agrees with it should be condemned.

 

[DOWN]

200 protesters gaf, What the actual fuck are the people in this thread talking about. FUCK

You didn't read the article. And harsh sentences are not exclusive beliefs of these protestors.

This was in one skirmish. The protests were called by Pakistan's largest Islamist party and are occurring in numerous cities, according to the article.

 

[SmokyDave]

So you think Islam is a cult?

Definition of cult in English:
noun
A system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object.

Nah, that definitely doesn't ring any bells at all.

So was Bill Maher right?

Nobody really knows. People on both sides just assume whatever suits them best.

 

[Kenshin001]

it is still free speech.

it is speech, and they shouldn't be allowed to do it freely.

Which is it? You are making a lot of contradictory and confusing statements. I think when most people imagine free speech, they imagine the right to mock religions and criticize governments without fear. They don't imagine death threats against people.

 

[Goldenroad]

"Cartoon is worst act of terrorism".

Terrorists killed 132 children a month ago at a school in your country. A drawing insulting the prophet is worse? Fucking baffling.

You have to realize, this is likely the same group of extremists who carried out that attack, or there is a lot of cross over anyway.

Why can't the sane, normal, majority of muslim folks realize that their religion is all kinds of f**ked and just stop believing this non-sense. The second I was old enough to realize Christianity was just a crock, I was like "K, I'm out." Why can't they just do the same?

I know there is not a simple answer to that question and I'm moreso just asking rhetorically, but come on. If you're a decent person, why would you want to have any beliefs that are remotely related to any kind of religious extremism?

 

[Naked Snake]

So was Bill Maher right?

He's always been right if you ask me.

 

[Sayter]

Red beards? I'm a fan.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I'm actually genuinely asking what exactly the issue is.

Sure, the word has negative connotations. But by dictionary definition all organised religions are essentially cults.

They're socially acceptable mainstream cults with many followers, but still essentially cults.

 

[Naked Snake]

I thought maninthemirror would have showed up by now

Wasn't he banned recently?

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

I'm actually genuinely asking what exactly the issue is.

Sure, the word has negative connotations. But by dictionary definition all organised religions are essentially cults.

They're socially acceptable mainstream cults with many followers, but still essentially cults.

Dictionary here:

cult

a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

 

[Ashes]

Nah, that definitely doesn't ring any bells at all.

Not sure if serious.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Dictionary here:

I don't really know why you copied and pasted a definition, while ignoring from the very same entry:
"A system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object:"

If it's just an issue of semantics and negative connotation. How small is small? Are Anglicans a cult, but Catholics not, since the latter outnumber the former by like 10-fold.

 

[Oppo]

Wasn't he banned recently?

Oh I don't know.

The story up the thread is one that has me thinking, about the guy who's Pakistani mother who has lived in Canada for 30 years quietly and confidently agrees with this idea that the cartoonists ought to be publically hanged. I've had friends (also in Canada) who express a sort of befuddled amazement at their parents for similar sentiments. Those people freak me out. Cause they aren't "radical". They are peaceful, tax paying, neighbourly Muslims who have integrated into my country nicely, my country with no apostasy or heresy laws, and no death penalty. And these non radical Muslims would calmly vote for death, vote to put men to death in public and at haste. Fucking freaks my shit out.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I'm actually genuinely asking what exactly the issue is.

Sure, the word has negative connotations. But by dictionary definition all organised religions are essentially cults.

They're socially acceptable mainstream cults with many followers, but still essentially cults.

The most common dictionary definition accepted by people is this:

"a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous."

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

I don't really know why you copied and pasted a definition, while ignoring from the very same entry:
"A system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object:"

If it's just an issue of semantics and negative connotation. How small is small? Are Anglicans a cult, but Catholics not, since the latter outnumber the former by like 10-fold.

Because it's not being used in that context.

 

[Ashes]

They're socially acceptable mainstream cults with many followers, but still essentially cults.

Socially acceptable cults? Are you trying to be unreasonable? Factions such as ISIS would fit under death cults, but I think most reasonable people would accept Islam to be a religion.

 

[Somnid]

I don't really know why you copied and pasted a definition, while ignoring from the very same entry:
"A system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object:"

That entry is wrong. That's the definition of idolatry.

Mainstream religion aren't generally considered cults because "cult" is a pejorative used by people who are often followers of mainstream religion to delegitimize small upstarts.

 

[Aquamarine]

So you think Islam is a cult?

no....i think muhammad is a dead cult leader who created a very successful cult (being a warlord tends to help with dissemination)...such that when he died....it grew to become a religion.

 

[Siegcram]

Dictionary here:

There's no conclusive definition of "cult".

Some of the encompass everything that resembles an organized religion that influences one's way of living.

 

[LostCaress]

it is still free speech.

"The cartoon makers are idiots" is free speech
"We must kill the cartoon makers" is not free speech. It's a threat.

 

[ZiZ]

So fucking what if it is? It's vile, and anyone who agrees with it should be condemned.

Exactly.

Which is it? You are making a lot of contradictory and confusing statements. I think when most people imagine free speech, they imagine the right to mock religions and criticize governments without fear. They don't imagine death threats against people.

I'm saying people shouldn't get to pick and choose, which is the case right now.

some people act like they are 100% with free speech, but once something they don't agree with is said, they want it silenced.

IMO, 100% free speech, where anybody is allowed to say anything without repercussions is uncivilized. people should be held accountable to what they say.

but we live in a world where Bill Maher can verbally shit on millions of people, but if he were to criticize israel he'd be jobless.

 

[cackhyena]

ZiZ thinks they just wanna have their say and that's that.

 

[Oppo]

There's no conclusive definition of "cult".

Some of the encompass everything that resembles an organized religion that influences one's way of living.

Not to get all hair-splitting — I thought one of the necessary ingredients of a "cult" (that differs from religion) is that cult members are cut off from other social contact?

And ZiZ, free speech has never been 100% free. You don't get to yell Fire in a crowded theatre, and that is not considered an abridgement of your rights.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Socially acceptable cults? Are you trying to be unreasonable? Factions such as ISIS would fit under death cults, but I think most reasonable people would accept Islam to be a religion.

I also consider it a religion. I was curious as to what people were using to delineate the two. And apparently it's size and legitimacy?

Frankly, this:

That entry is wrong. That's the definition of idolatry.

Mainstream religion aren't generally considered cults because "cult" is a pejorative used by people who are often followers of mainstream religion to delegitimize small upstarts.

... seems to be the major issue in using the word to describe mainstream religion.

 

[Zoned]

"Cartoon is worst act of terrorism".

Terrorists killed 132 children a month ago at a school in your country. A drawing insulting the prophet is worse? Fucking baffling.

This. People are getting killed, there is blood on the streets and they are worried about a cartoon. Bunch of idiots.

 

[Ashes]

"The cartoon makers are idiots" is free speech
"We must kill the cartoon makers" is not free speech. It's a threat.

Threats 'absolutely' are free speech, but we (I am in the UK) do not [rightly] hold that to be legal free speech. Most people in the UK think it is fine not to have 'absolute free speech'.

In my opinion, all adults present at this protest, should be arrested.

 

[Zoned]

it is still free speech.

So violent threats are now free speech? Come on man.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I also consider it a religion. I was curious as to what people were using to delineate the two. And apparently it's size and legitimacy?

Frankly, this:
... seems to be the major issue in using the word to describe mainstream religion.

Yeah, kind of what separates religion from myth.

 

[Dragon]

so, what, they're not allowed to protest now?

they should shut up because you don't agree with them?

Wait you're getting upset for their sakes that we're telling them to shut up? They are advocating the murder of other human beings over a drawing. They should shut up for that. Who cares who agrees with whom?

 

[RustyNails]

200 people. It almost seems people here want a bigger reaction than what is currently happening.

There were probably more Muslims in the JeSuiCharlie protest in france.

 

[BadWolf]

But I thought religion had nothing to do with it, those two were just murderers and a special case.

 

[DOWN]

Exactly.



I'm saying people shouldn't get to pick and choose, which is the case right now.

some people act like they are 100% with free speech, but once something they don't agree with is said, they want it silenced.

IMO, 100% free speech, where anybody is allowed to say anything without repercussions is uncivilized. people should be held accountable to what they say.

but we live in a world where Bill Maher can verbally shit on millions of people, but if he were to criticize israel he'd be jobless.

Er, you are being very inconsistent on what your points are. Is calling for physical violence and death, "free speech"? No. That's saying certain speech earns you death and in this case, the protestors want that provided.

Bill Maher saying that millions support such sentences is hard to determine, but there's no threat there. That's his assessment of a specific punishment culture outside of the western world that is heavily present in Islamic nations.

And Bill Maher being out of a job for disagreeable free speech is just a consequence that is a part of true free speech. You can say what you want, but that doesn't mean you are free of consequences. When the speech wasn't a threat or inciting violence, then the consequence just may be that you don't associate or serve well within certain organizations who stand by a different view than what you present.