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[Aureon]

Anyone that says it's a tiny minority is stupid, but I think it's equally stupid to extrapolate how much the Muslim World really cared about these cartoons based on a small scale protest in one of the most fucked up Muslim majority countries in the world.

Pakistan is ~100m muslims, and their government condemned the cartoons as "terrorism".
Now, i'm a bleeding-heart liberal, but facts are facts - We may excuse, reason and justifty, but let's not pretend a large part of the muslim world, especially in certain countries, doesn't support those kind of killings - refer to the usual apostasy, for example.

How much is the product of the religion itself, and how much of the geopolitical \ cultural issues, we can debate. I think the western invasions take a pretty huge share of the blame; But the situation is at is it, and lying to ourselves isn't going to help anyone, unless you believe in "fake it until you make it"

 

[Frodo]

what a bunch of crazies

maybe obama will humanely drone strike them

Asking for them to be drone'd is not a single bit more civilised than them asking the cartoonists to be hanged. Best answer is on the post above yours.

 

[moggio]

Hey, some good news though. Raif Badawi's sentence of receiving 50 lashes every Friday for blasphemy has been postponed by Doctors as he was so badly injured by the first lot of 50 lashes.

Yay religion!

 

[-COOLIO-]

Asking for them to be drone'd is not a single bit more civilised than them asking the cartoonists to be hanged. Best answer is on the post above yours.

sarcasm is a poor choice of communication on the internet, but i believe that's what he was attempting.

 

[Stereogatari]

Pakistan is ~100m muslims, and their government condemned the cartoons as "terrorism".
Now, i'm a bleeding-heart liberal, but facts are facts - We may excuse, reason and justifty, but let's not pretend a large part of the muslim world, especially in certain countries, doesn't support those kind of killings - refer to the usual apostasy, for example.

How much is the product of the religion itself, and how much of the geopolitical \ cultural issues, we can debate. I think the western invasions take a pretty huge share of the blame; But the situation is at is it, and lying to ourselves isn't going to help anyone, unless you believe in "fake it until you make it"

I think it's sad that most peoples knowledge of Muslim majority countries comes from the World News, and most stories that make the World News are negative, which helps perpetuate an image of Muslim majority countries that is distorted towards the crazies. Not saying that religion doesn't have an undue influence on Pakistani society, but there still exists a significantly varied demographic in the country, some who are more religious than others etc., and unfortunately most people fail to see that when all they know of Pakistan is images of scruffy bearded men shouting angrily and demanding murder.

Like I said there are tens of millions of smartly dressed clean shaven Pakistanis that are talking about the cartoons and killings in a civil manner, but we'll never see that image because it's not news.

 

[Heshinsi]

Pakistan is ~100m muslims, and their government condemned the cartoons as "terrorism".
Now, i'm a bleeding-heart liberal, but facts are facts - We may excuse, reason and justifty, but let's not pretend a large part of the muslim world, especially in certain countries, doesn't support those kind of killings - refer to the usual apostasy, for example.

How much is the product of the religion itself, and how much of the geopolitical cultural issues, we can debate. I think the western invasions take a pretty huge share of the blame; But the situation is at is it, and lying to ourselves isn't going to help anyone, unless you believe in "fake it until you make it"

The problem are the clerics. How many of Pakistan's 100 million plus Muslims even understand the words of the Holy book they recite? Not many. They get the whole of their religious understanding from the mouths of clerics who tell them in in their local languages what their religion is. It only takes a handful of corrupt evil men to sway millions of uneducated fools.

 

[Naked Snake]

I think that's totally unfair to earlier Muslims. The behaviour of these idiots isn't something that's a holdover from previous times; it's almost completely different from how early Islamic culture was. Hell the Muslim world in the 60's was radically different than what it is today. These barbarians would have stuck out like a sore thumb in magically transported to some place like old Baghdad of the early Islamic age.

Reminded me of images like these:

I've seem similar ones for other countries.

 

[Frodo]

sarcasm is a poor choice of communication on the internet, but i believe that's what he was attempting.

Tee hee, I was unsure, decided to reply just in case.

 

[Whom_Gods_Annoy]

I think even if these protests are a small minority, Pakistan does indeed have a problem with religious extremism. The country needs to find ways to make the populace be more open minded.

Fixed.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Hey, some good news though. Raif Badawi's sentence of receiving 50 lashes every Friday for blasphemy has been postponed by Doctors as he was so badly injured by the first lot of 50 lashes.

Yay religion!

yikes. i feel for this guy.

 

[Always-honest]

Reminded me of images like these:



I've seem similar ones for other countries.

Wow.. That's sad to see.

 

[Next]

Reminded me of images like these:



I've seem similar ones for other countries.

this is depressing...

 

[Stereogatari]

Reminded me of images like these:



I've seem similar ones for other countries.

Wow.. That's sad to see.

this is depressing...

These images are a bit selective to be honest. Many Iranian women have very liberal interpretations of the headscarf law and wear a lot of make up and sexy clothing, so they could just as easily be represented by the 2012 image.

Not to mention the tribal people still existed in that pre-war era of Afghanistan, so again we could use an image of them instead of the urban people from Kabul and the niqab isn't a law in Afghan society, many women wear normal headscarves that aren't tightly put on.

Not that Afghanistan and Iran haven't been hurt by the Islamism that has crept in, but I don't think the complexity behind it is well represented by simple images like this. If Iran and Afghanistan had Saudi level of strict laws then I'd agree with such images, but they very much don't.

 

[Forsythia]

Morons. Don't they have better things to do than to freak out about a silly cartoon, which was drawn almost on the other side of the planet. Screaming for murder because of a cartoon, I really can't wrap my head around it.

 

[Beer Monkey]

This is not true, as this is one of my fields of study.

This is what the majority of scholarship have concluded about Jesus of Nazareth and his impact on those that followed him:

1. Jesus died by crucifixion.
2. He was buried.
3. His death caused the disciples to despair and lose hope.
4. The tomb was empty (the most contested).
5. The disciples had experiences which they believed were literal appearances of the risen Jesus (the most important evidence).
6. The disciples were transformed from doubters to bold proclaimers.
7. The resurrection was the central message.
8. They preached the message of Jesus’ resurrection in Jerusalem.
9. The Church was born and grew.
10. Orthodox Jews who believed in Christ made Sunday their primary day of worship.
11. James was converted to the faith when he saw the resurrected Jesus (James was a family skeptic).
12. Paul was converted to the faith (Paul was an outsider skeptic).

The list was made by Dr. Habermas. He is the go-to-guy that scholars go to for the historicity of Jesus' life and death.

LOL, Habermas is a religious nut who believes the bible is a history book and he doesn't get to speak for "the majority of scholarship". Anyhow, I can cut and paste as well as you so here are rational responses to Habermas' shitty list of 12 "facts".

1. As far as we know, Jesus (if he existed) is told to have been crucified only in the gospels, about 45 to 70 years after Jesus died. No contemporary eye-witness reports this execution, nor does Paul ever mention the crucifixion. The claim that Jesus was crucified is unhistorical in of itself. Torah Law states any blasphemer should be put to death and then hung for display. This law is confirmed and elaborated in the Mishnah tractate Sanhedrin: people could be executed either by stoning, burning, decapitation, or strangulation, but whichever it was, when the crime was blasphemy the corpse was then hung on a pole for display, apparently like a slab of meat, which resembled a crucifixion. And whether executed or not, a body had to be taken down by sunset. Nowhere in the law does it state that the punishment was by crucifixion.
2. Again, this is only mentioned in the gospels way after Jesus supposedly died. If Jesus did exist and was executed as a blasphemer, the Mishnah tractate Sanhedrin goes on to explain the law regarding the burial of condemned men: they did not bury the condemned in the burial grounds of his ancestors, but there were two graveyards made ready for the use of the court, one for those who were beheaded or strangled, and one for those who were stoned or burned.(6.5e-f) This is confirmed in three other sources: the Talmud, the Tosefta, and the Midrash Rabbah. Jesus, as a blasphemer, would be ear-marked for stoning and thus for the Graveyard of the Stoned and Burned. The Mishnah itself goes on to explain that only "when the flesh was completely decomposed were the bones gathered and buried in their proper place," i.e. only then could the family rebury the condemned man in their ancestral tomb. There were no apparent exceptions made for execution by a Gentile government (Talmud, Sanhedrin 47b).
3. We have no records of the disciples emotions or personal feelings. The gospel authors were not contemporary witnesses, Relying on the gospel authors is not a satisfactory answer.
4. As discussed in point 2 above, Jesus was not buried in a tomb. As a blasphemer, to be properly buried by Jewish law, Jesus would have to wait to become bones before buried in a tomb (and that take a lot longer than 3 days).
5. Such experiences, if they happened, can be explained without miracles.
6. That is assuming they were never doubters, or they merely claim they were never doubters. All we have is the word of some anonymous authors. Perhaps only half the disciples were believers, and the gospel authors reported that they were all believes to give credulity to the resurrection story. Without individual or contemporary testimony, we cannot be sure that they all became believers.
7. Rather, the atonement was the more appropriate central message. Resurrection means nothing without the atonement.
8. Jerusalem was the center of education and religious diversion. Followers of various beliefs all testify as to their experiences and faith, such as Apollonius of Tyana raising the dead.
9. This can be achieved without a historical figure, such as with cargo cults. The sudden rise of the Mormon Church does not prove that God lives on a planet or an angel visited Joseph Smith.
10. Setting a date of worship does not require an historical figure to exist.
11. Again, this is assuming James existed, was a doubter, or perhaps lied.
12. Paul never witnessed Jesus or his resurrection, and claims to have changed his views on the road to Damascus after having a vision.

 

[Raistlin]

Is this

The new

???

 

[Heshinsi]

These images are a bit selective to be honest. Many Iranian women have very liberal interpretations of the headscarf law and wear a lot of make up and sexy clothing, so they could just as easily be represented by the 2012 image.

Not to mention the tribal people still existed in that pre-war era of Afghanistan, so again we could use an image of them instead of the urban people from Kabul and the niqab isn't a law in Afghan society, many women wear normal headscarves that aren't tightly put on.

Not that Afghanistan and Iran haven't been hurt by the Islamism that has crept in, but I don't think the complexity behind it is well represented by simple images like this. If Iran and Afghanistan had Saudi level of strict laws then I'd agree with such images, but they very much don't.

Same thing happened in Egypt too. My father had this book in library that showed pictures of Cairo university's first female students. It also had images showing female students at the university from the 60s all the way to the 00s. The first graduating class has one or two women in hijab, and by the later images, almost all the female students are wearing it. Some of them even in full niqab.

The Saudis are part of the reason this is happening across the Muslims world. They're using their oil wealth to export their batshit crazy ideology. Twice the Ottoman Turks wiped these fuckers out. No one took their version of Islam seriously, until circumstance (Afghanistan-Soviet war) and new found wealth gave them opportunity.

 

[Ether_Snake]

These images are a bit selective to be honest. Many Iranian women have very liberal interpretations of the headscarf law and wear a lot of make up and sexy clothing, so they could just as easily be represented by the 2012 image.

Not to mention the tribal people still existed in that pre-war era of Afghanistan, so again we could use an image of them instead of the urban people from Kabul and the niqab isn't a law in Afghan society, many women wear normal headscarves that aren't tightly put on.

Not that Afghanistan and Iran haven't been hurt by the Islamism that has crept in, but I don't think the complexity behind it is well represented by simple images like this. If Iran and Afghanistan had Saudi level of strict laws then I'd agree with such images, but they very much don't.

They are not. Women who don't cover their heads in Iran get arrested, women who would dress like in those photos in Afghanistan would be raped/killed.

Edit: it's not just the Saudis, the fight against communism is significantly responsible for this since one of the main weapons against communism was funding conservatives/extremists/radicals and all that crap, and is still happening today. All secular governments in the middle-east have also been coincidentally enemies of the US.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Somewhere, Bill Maher is enjoying an iced tea.

 

[stufte]

Somewhere, Bill Maher is enjoying an iced tea.

But that's none of his business.

 

[Ashes]

Comments like these make it harder for me to feel bad for your while you defend your flag.

So don't feel bad?

TBH, I did find your last post a little bit more informative than most. If you're a creative Muslim, or reformist, or liberal, or any kind of social activist, you find your self debating the anti-religion brigade, the anti-Muslim league, the right wing, the left wing, the extremists [well Muslim extremists], and Muslims in general.

You get used to being isolated and powerless. You just got to keep your head up and move along. Whenever something like this happens, you fear both the suicide bomber, and the right wing nutter i.e. the terrorist and the reprisal.

And of course, being in London, I am at liberty to talk about this, when so many Muslims around the world are powerless to do so.

Still, generally, I would rather talk about the experience of others rather than my own. All I have to really worry about is avoiding places that might now spit in my food.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Is this

The new

???

Yes they're just like the patriots in the US..

 

[Always-honest]

These images are a bit selective to be honest. Many Iranian women have very liberal interpretations of the headscarf law and wear a lot of make up and sexy clothing, so they could just as easily be represented by the 2012 image.

Not to mention the tribal people still existed in that pre-war era of Afghanistan, so again we could use an image of them instead of the urban people from Kabul and the niqab isn't a law in Afghan society, many women wear normal headscarves that aren't tightly put on.

Not that Afghanistan and Iran haven't been hurt by the Islamism that has crept in, but I don't think the complexity behind it is well represented by simple images like this. If Iran and Afghanistan had Saudi level of strict laws then I'd agree with such images, but they very much don't.

Ofcourse i have no idea about how accurate they are but if this is true than it's horrible (imo).

Yes they're just like the patriots in the US..

Yeah amurca has its fair share of extremists too .

 

[SolidusDave]

I'm not sure I'm adding to the discussion with this, but here we go.
These are the only 13 countries left in the world in which denouncing God (or Atheism basically), blasphemy, and/or leaving Islam can(and does) lead to capital punishment:

Afghanistan 31.8 million (>99% Muslims)
Iran 77.2 million (98% Muslims)
Malaysia 30.4 million (61% Muslims)
Maldives 0.4 million (100% Muslims)
Mauritania 3.4 million (almost 100% Muslims)
Nigeria 174.5 million (50% Muslims, concentrated in the North thus only there's the Sharia law etc.)
Pakistan 196.2 million (97% Muslims)
Qatar 2.2 million (83% Muslims)
Saudi Arabia 30.8 million (97% Muslims, rest are foreign workers)
Somalia 10.4 million (almost 100% Muslims)
Sudan 37.3 million (97% Muslims)
United Arab Emirates 9.3 million (77% Muslims)
Yemen 23.8 million (99% Muslims)

I guess IS can be counted as well, yay!
Oh and it goes without saying that implementing the Sharia law also comes with lots of other goodies obviously...

That's a lot of people who are organized in official countries in which satire like CH would lead to the death of the people involved. No terrorists needed.
People often get offended as they feel all Muslims are accused of being terrorists when it's only a tiny number of people. While that's true, my point with the population numbers above is that the poisonous way of thinking is shared by a big junk of Muslims when looked at globally.

So demanding the death of Mohammed cartoon satirists etc. in countries like in the OP is not really weird from that point of view, it's in fact in compliance with the official law.
Actually, considering those numbers, it's somewhat reassuring that most people even in these countries don't seem to care enough to demand killing people that don't affect them nor do they create a flood of terrorists. The actual extremists must be a minority everywhere, the violent ones even more so. Sadly sometimes they hold the power as you can see above.

However, all these perfectly nice and peaceful people still have the same flaw of religious indoctrination. Even if you don't act on it, I don't think it's a healthy mindset to have. It will take a long time until it's not normal to have "well those blasphemists had it coming" thoughts even for more "moderate" Muslims.

(of course in each of these countries are people that fight/ don't want such laws but are easily taken out by the people in power. I'm not saying they can just stand up and say "no, let's not do this anymore". Although this particular topic is probably anyway not a big deal in countries in which virtually everyone is Muslim )

 

[Reclaimer.]

Reminded me of images like these:



I've seem similar ones for other countries.

Images like these anger me so much, and the sympathy toward it is very hollow to me. I'm Afghan originally and the stuff I've seen, the things I've heard from relatives, I can say that the west has destroyed the middle east.
Here in Holland, where I live now, some people return to their home countries to fight for their countries. Those people are called jihadists and ridiculed. One of them posted videos online of what the media doesn't show you, the destruction the west has inflicted on their homes. They went back to support their countries.

People that have a judgment ready against muslims that hate the west nearly always ignore what those people have had to endure, how their countries degenerated over te past decades.

 

[Maninthemirror]

I'm not sure I'm adding to the discussion with this, but here we go.
These are the only 13 countries left in the world in which denouncing God (or Atheism basically), blasphemy, and/or leaving Islam can(and does) lead to capital punishment:

Afghanistan 31.8 million (>99% Muslims)
Iran 77.2 million (98% Muslims)
Malaysia 30.4 million (61% Muslims)
Maldives 0.4 million (100% Muslims)
Mauritania 3.4 million (almost 100% Muslims)
Nigeria 174.5 million (50% Muslims, concentrated in the North thus only there's the Sharia law etc.)
Pakistan 196.2 million (97% Muslims)
Qatar 2.2 million (83% Muslims)
Saudi Arabia 30.8 million (97% Muslims, rest are foreign workers)
Somalia 10.4 million (almost 100% Muslims)
Sudan 37.3 million (97% Muslims)
United Arab Emirates 9.3 million (77% Muslims)
Yemen 23.8 million (99% Muslims)

I guess IS can be counted as well, yay!
Oh and it goes without saying that implementing the Sharia law also comes with lots of other goodies obviously...

That's a lot of people who are organized in official countries in which satire like CH would lead to the death of the people involved. No terrorists needed.
People often get offended as they feel all Muslims are accused of being terrorists when it's only a tiny number of people. While that's true, my point with the population numbers above is that the poisonous way of thinking is shared by a big junk of Muslims when looked at globally.

So demanding the death of Mohammed cartoon satirists etc. in countries like in the OP is not really weird from that point of view, it's in fact in compliance with the official law.
Actually, considering those numbers, it's somewhat reassuring that most people even in these countries don't seem to care enough to demand killing people that don't affect them nor do they create a flood of terrorists. The actual extremists must be a minority everywhere, the violent ones even more so. Sadly sometimes they hold the power as you can see above.

However, all these perfectly nice and peaceful people still have the same flaw of religious indoctrination. Even if you don't act on it, I don't think it's a healthy mindset to have. It will take a long time until it's not normal to have "well those blasphemists had it coming" thoughts even for more "moderate" Muslims.

(of course in each of these countries are people that fight/ don't want such laws but are easily taken out by the people in power. I'm not saying they can just stand up and say "no, let's not do this anymore")

if they had religious indoctrination to the utmost degree they would be working instead of protesting, praying instead of killing and giving instead of taking.

 

[antipode]

A photographer for Agence France-Presse was shot during the protests. He is out of surgery and recovering.

Both the police and the protestors blame each other for opening fire.

 

[TimeEffect]

Reminded me of images like these:



I've seem similar ones for other countries.

Are there any books on this change? I read a Thousand Splendid Suns and loved it, as well as Persepolis. I was hoping for similar books like that, or even just a good old history book.

 

[AuthenticM]

Religion is so great ! Let's all sing Kumbaya My Lord together !

 

[Onemic]

Are they demanding hangings for the people that were shot to death?

And I can't stand these scumbags.
As progressives we constantly fight for THEIR freedom, as well as ours.
If not for us, the conservatives of the world would bar all Muslims from everything, we tend to be the voice of reason, stop disappointing us.
Do they not care that I, as well as the rest of the world find their actions and wishes offensive, why is it only one way? Selfish.
I AM OFFENDED BY YOU!

And is your God so weak he needs you to defend him?
I thought he was the all powerful Allah, omnipotent ruler of the universe.
According to your beliefs, we will all burn in hell for eternity, so let life run its course, and mind your own business.

I'm sorry but I lol'd at this so hard

 

[Enco]

Some say that being insulted is silly, and that no one has a 'right' to be insulted. I think that's bullshit and you can definitely insult and be insulted. That's fucking life. It sucks.

BUT.. lol at you wanting to kill the person who you feel insulted by. What a load of horseshit. You need to be really insane to value yourself over someone like that.

 

[Coins]

Reminded me of images like these:



I've seem similar ones for other countries.

That's so crazy. The whole society over there is just a shit hole. Fuck anyone that supports that bullshit.

 

[Ushay]

Aaaaaaan this is the root of the problem. 1 side doesn't quite seem to understand what exactly passes as an offense. While the other takes an extreme reaction towards it. Both are wrong, one a lot more so than the other.

 

[knkng]

Some say that being insulted is silly, and that no one has a 'right' to be insulted. I think that's bullshit and you can definitely insult and be insulted. That's fucking life. It sucks.

BUT.. lol at you wanting to kill the person who you feel insulted by. What a load of horseshit. You need to be really insane to value yourself over someone like that.

I don't even think it's fair to say that they are being insulted so much as they are being criticized. Two very different things. I mean, we're not making fun of their shoes or something, these are serious issues that need to be challenged, regardless of what their imaginary rulebook tells them.

 

[Dopus]

Religion is so great ! Let's all sing Kumbaya My Lord together !

It has less to do with religion and more to do with Imperialism. If people would actually look at the wider context of issues surrounding attacks and the general ill feeling these people have then maybe they'd have a better understanding of the situation instead of blaming it solely on religion.

 

[AuthenticM]

It has less to do with religion and more to do with Imperialism. If people would actually look at the wider context of issues surrounding attacks and the general ill feeling these people have then maybe they'd have a better understanding of the situation instead of blaming it solely on religion.

...or these people are religious fanatics with warped minds. People are quick to think of explanations other than religion to avoid stepping on toes, as it is a touchy subject. But sometimes, the simplest explanation is true: these people may very well be brainwhashed fanatics who cannot think for themselves.

 

[Azure Dream]

A photographer for Agence France-Presse was shot during the protests. He is out of surgery and recovering.

Both the police and the protestors blame each other for opening fire.

Well, who to believe, it's not like one side was already calling for murder over a cartoon or anything...

 

[devilhawk]

Doesn't matter how often it's repeated, it'll keep getting ignored. I guess the benefit of being loosely affiliated with 1.5 billion people is that you can always say 'but it's just a minority of muslims, so islam has nothing to do with it!'.

Don't forget to fear the rise of the European far right though. 'It's just a minority' rule doesn't apply there.


It's a fabricated issue. Nobody says 'all muslims', even if they're criticising islam.

It's amazing how often people play both sides of this game even on this very forum.

 

[Dopus]

...or these people are religious fanatics with warped minds. People are quick to think of explanations other than religion to avoid stepping on toes, as it is a touchy subject. But sometimes, the simplest explanation is true: these people may very well be brainwhashed fanatics who cannot think for themselves.

Religion is no doubt a contributing factor for some, but so were the many wars and meddling with governments and politics in the Middle East and Asia for decades upon decades, which by the way hasn't stopped. The simplest explanation of religion being the cause for all of this unrest is simply a dishonest way of explaining or even understanding it.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

-be me
-be pakistani
-enter thread
-see posts

LOL. Same here.

Although I will add that not everyone is like that here, unlike what the majority of the world thinks.

For example, this is Pakistan too.

This is the religious nut behind Lal Masjid in Islamabad.

 

[ypo]

These images are a bit selective to be honest. Many Iranian women have very liberal interpretations of the headscarf law and wear a lot of make up and sexy clothing, so they could just as easily be represented by the 2012 image.

Not to mention the tribal people still existed in that pre-war era of Afghanistan, so again we could use an image of them instead of the urban people from Kabul and the niqab isn't a law in Afghan society, many women wear normal headscarves that aren't tightly put on.

Not that Afghanistan and Iran haven't been hurt by the Islamism that has crept in, but I don't think the complexity behind it is well represented by simple images like this. If Iran and Afghanistan had Saudi level of strict laws then I'd agree with such images, but they very much don't.

I know what you mean. It's a shame that these women aren't capable of interpreting their oppression correctly. Shameful, 100 lashes for all.

 

[qizah]

Doesn't matter how often it's repeated, it'll keep getting ignored. I guess the benefit of being loosely affiliated with 1.5 billion people is that you can always say 'but it's just a minority of muslims, so islam has nothing to do with it!'.

Don't forget to fear the rise of the European far right though. 'It's just a minority' rule doesn't apply there.


It's a fabricated issue. Nobody says 'all muslims', even if they're criticising islam.

The last part is laughable--as someone who identifies as a Muslim himself, and who has dealt with being clumped together with these animals day in and day out out for the last 10+ years, pardon my french, but you're a fucking idiot.

Please shut up.

 

[Coins]

The last part is laughable--as someone who identifies as a Muslim himself, and who has dealt with being clumped together with these animals day in and day out out for the last 10+ years, pardon my french, but you're a fucking idiot.

Please shut up.

Can you blame them? Islam, as a whole, doesn't really jive with feminism and the LGBT community so what do you expect?

 

[chocolate disco]

Some say that being insulted is silly, and that no one has a 'right' to be insulted. I think that's bullshit and you can definitely insult and be insulted. That's fucking life. It sucks.

BUT.. lol at you wanting to kill the person who you feel insulted by. What a load of horseshit. You need to be really insane to value yourself over someone like that.

What about a punch in the face?

 

[reckless]

What about a punch in the face?

Any sort of violence in response to a perceived offense/insult is wrong.

 

[Lamel]

This thread is a perfect example of how media can distort the view of a lot of people.

200 people show up at a rally from a radical party and "PAKISTANI MUSLIMS ARE AWFUL THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE BILL MAHER WAS RIGHT".

Give me a break.

Yes these guys are lunatics, and they absolutely are WRONG for doing this, but this is nothing compared to how real protests go in Pakistan. They know how to rally.

I would actually be surprised if most of the people commenting here knew what the average pakistani was like. The turban wearing, heavily bearded, ultra conservative guys are definitely the minority. Furthermore, Pakistan is not a homogeneous country by any means - the populations on the Afghan border are very different compared to those in the major cities. But you always seem to see the same tribal type folk in every article that comes up in the western media, I wonder why.

I wonder if they protested when a schoolful of people got killed in their own country? Probably not....

They did, if you did some research you wouldn't post such a dumbass comment.

 

[Camwi]

These images are a bit selective to be honest. Many Iranian women have very liberal interpretations of the headscarf law and wear a lot of make up and sexy clothing, so they could just as easily be represented by the 2012 image. Not to mention the tribal people still existed in that pre-war era of Afghanistan, so again we could use an image of them instead of the urban people from Kabul and the niqab isn't a law in Afghan society, many women wear normal headscarves that aren't tightly put on.

Not that Afghanistan and Iran haven't been hurt by the Islamism that has crept in, but I don't think the complexity behind it is well represented by simple images like this. If Iran and Afghanistan had Saudi level of strict laws then I'd agree with such images, but they very much don't.

Do you have any picture examples of this? I just find it hard to believe.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Reminded me of images like these:

I've seem similar ones for other countries.

The Islamic world has been moving backwards since like 1000-1200.

 

[Dopus]

Do you have any picture examples of this? I just find it hard to believe.

https://www.facebook.com/POOSHdesign

This thread is just dissapointing on all fronts.

 

[Abstruse Moose]

What's really disappointing to me is that the middle east used to be the seat if knowledge in the world. Science and the pursuit of truth were valued ideas. And now, yikes.