Beer Monkey
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BRB, using imagination because no flesh other than face and hands.
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Pakistan clashes over Hebdo cartoon
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BRB, using imagination because no flesh other than face and hands.
Lamel
Banned
Yeah but the way pakistanis are portrayed in the media, this IS the way people are going to identify with them. Feel bad for all my Pakistani friends - they are some of the most educated and reasonable people I know. But people lump them with these loonies constantly due to the types of stories that show up in the western media.
It's sad because I used to be the same way before I actually met and befriended some pakistanis.
The Mongol invasion and the teaching of Al-Ghazali would do that to a civilisation. Before Al-Ghazali the natural sciences were an integral part of Islamic society. After him well, we've got nut jobs who believe science is the works of the infidels. That alone should clue people as to how different these Islamists are from early Islam. Not to excuse some of the stuff that's been in the religion since the beginning, but these guys we have today are something else.
from the article in one of the pictures.
They don't talk numbers but I doubt they're only 200.
Lamel
Banned
You know what I'm trying to say, still pretty damn minor in a populace of 200 mil. These are the religious fanatic parties, not the typical ones.
shadowsdarknes
Member
What sort of education does the average Pakistani receive?
Lamel
Banned
Depends on where they live. People in the larger cities receive far more, where there are major universities. People in the tribal and regions bordering afghanistan receive comparatively very little. Youth are on average more educated than older generations.
The overall literacy rate is pretty low due to the rampant poverty. The people with the money are the ones who can afford the most education, which is why the system there is pretty fucked. They need to invest in education asap.
archnemesis
Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Pakistan
It varies a lot, but "Pakistan still has one of the highest illiteracy rates in the world and the second largest out of school population (5.1 million children) after Nigeria."
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Cultural decline seems to coincide 1) Mongol Invasion 2) Colonialism, 3) US-backed coups. Countries need to start learning to stop interfering with other countries' internal affairs.
Always-honest
Banned
This remark covers the entire thread but says nothing. Wouldn't you like to narrow it down a bit, so we know exactly why you are so disappointed with the rest of us?
Not really what I was expecting based on that description, but that's something, I guess.
Oh there were internal reasons. Its not solely the fault of outside influence.
gutter_trash
Banned
Nigeria also has a protest about the cartoons but no protest about the loss of life and violence going on there
speculawyer
Member
This society is just wrong.
And it is reflected in the GDP, literacy rate, poverty rate, etc.
Worst act of terrorism? Really? :-/
Or how about murdering unarmed CHILDREN. They literally did that in Pakistan. I guess that was not as bad as a cartoon.
I don't think the message in this picture is from a fringe philosophy. I think a shit-ton of Muslims love their prophet way too much. My mom, a soft-hearted 58-year old grandmother, living in Canada for almost 30 years, also thinks people who draw the Muslim prophet should be killed. She didn't even have any hateful inflections in her voice - she just says it matter-of-factly, as if the thought goes without saying.
I'll show her this picture when I get home. It might be sick but I laughed out loud at work when I saw this - it's surreal, lol.
Yep, that's the impression I get too. Their prophet even tried to prevent this by forbidding his followers from creating images of him so they wouldn't direct their worship to him when they should be worshiping God.
It apparently backfired big time and a lot of people interpreted it as him being so holy and saint that even depicting him would be blasphemous.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Fantastically dull.
speculawyer
Member
Great point.
And it also shows how the idolatry thing as an excuse is ridiculous . . . I don't think people are in danger of worshipping satirical cartoons.
And is there an outright ban on blasphemy?
The people protesting and the people clashing against them both seem to have one thing in common. They both seem to be thirsty for blood or righteousness rather than peace. Many people in this thread have proven they have no clue about what they are talking about. Got to be angry and complain at something I guess.
Jzero
Member
God damn, this seems like something the Onion would make.
Only one side is to blame for the lack of peace trying to say that cartoonists are to blame is just wrong.
Q
qizah
Unconfirmed Member
No religion does the LGBT community any favours either.
Your post reads as if "Well, how can you blame them, Muslims obviously aren't accepting of the LGBT community". It's incredibly ignorant (and stupid) to think so -- it's also incredibly annoying to see people constantly making assumptions about ones beliefs and their relationship with their religion.
I may be a Muslim but that sure as hell doesn't mean I don't question Islam's teachings, it also sure as hell doesn't mean that by association, I surely don't support the LGBT community and fight for women s rights--if you (not you specifically) don't know me, don't make dumb ass fucking assumptions.
At least, this is what my understanding is of what your saying with your post--correct me if I'm wrong.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-support-the-death-penalty-for-leaving-islam/
Call a spade a spade.
We're all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.
Burying the head in the sand and saying "There's no problem with the muslim population in the middle east as a whole" is just wishful thinking.
Of course that doesn't mean every single pakistani is for extreme sharia, but it means a very significant fraction does, not just underground subsersive factions.
DarkLordMalik
Member
FFS, stop generalizing a bunch of guys to a whole nation and calling them "morons". For the last time, the whole fucking country is not like this. It fucking sucks when I see people using news like this to judge the whole country.
Don't get me wrong, one side is obviously the right side, but looking some of the posts here, it seems more like some people just like to cheap shots in order to feel superior.
SporeCrawler
Member
the sad thing is that signs like this, that previously were not taken seriously have a different ring now.
SporeCrawler
Member
while not capital punishment (up to 3 years though) in germany blasphemy is a crime as well.I'm not sure I'm adding to the discussion with this, but here we go.
These are the only 13 countries left in the world in which denouncing God (or Atheism basically), blasphemy, and/or leaving Islam can(and does) lead to capital punishment:
Afghanistan 31.8 million (>99% Muslims)
Iran 77.2 million (98% Muslims)
Malaysia 30.4 million (61% Muslims)
Maldives 0.4 million (100% Muslims)
Mauritania 3.4 million (almost 100% Muslims)
Nigeria 174.5 million (50% Muslims, concentrated in the North thus only there's the Sharia law etc.)
Pakistan 196.2 million (97% Muslims)
Qatar 2.2 million (83% Muslims)
Saudi Arabia 30.8 million (97% Muslims, rest are foreign workers)
Somalia 10.4 million (almost 100% Muslims)
Sudan 37.3 million (97% Muslims)
United Arab Emirates 9.3 million (77% Muslims)
Yemen 23.8 million (99% Muslims)
I guess IS can be counted as well, yay!
Oh and it goes without saying that implementing the Sharia law also comes with lots of other goodies obviously...
That's a lot of people who are organized in official countries in which satire like CH would lead to the death of the people involved. No terrorists needed.
People often get offended as they feel all Muslims are accused of being terrorists when it's only a tiny number of people. While that's true, my point with the population numbers above is that the poisonous way of thinking is shared by a big junk of Muslims when looked at globally.
So demanding the death of Mohammed cartoon satirists etc. in countries like in the OP is not really weird from that point of view, it's in fact in compliance with the official law.
Actually, considering those numbers, it's somewhat reassuring that most people even in these countries don't seem to care enough to demand killing people that don't affect them nor do they create a flood of terrorists. The actual extremists must be a minority everywhere, the violent ones even more so. Sadly sometimes they hold the power as you can see above.
However, all these perfectly nice and peaceful people still have the same flaw of religious indoctrination. Even if you don't act on it, I don't think it's a healthy mindset to have. It will take a long time until it's not normal to have "well those blasphemists had it coming" thoughts even for more "moderate" Muslims.
(of course in each of these countries are people that fight/ don't want such laws but are easily taken out by the people in power. I'm not saying they can just stand up and say "no, let's not do this anymore". Although this particular topic is probably anyway not a big deal in countries in which virtually everyone is Muslim)
Those responses contain one big error. Jesus wasn't killed by the Jews for Blasphemy, he was killed by the Romans. Jewish leaders tried to get the romans to kill him for blasphemy but Pilate didn't see a problem as it was a matter for their law and not roman law. He had done nothing wrong in roman law. He was killed as a favour to the Jews.
Count Dookkake
Member
THE SKETCH MAKERS MUST
BE HUNG IMMENSELY
BE HUNG IMMENSELY
The ottoman empire used to have them. Also depictions aren't that taboo in the shiite branch of Islam. You can find quite a few of them in Iran for example.
RustyNails
Member
Soon around 1700s, man by the name of Abdul Wahhab was born in the present day Arabia. He dispensed a strict, austere version of Islam that was a complete political antithetis to the Turkish Caliphate's more grandoise, liberal Islam. Abdul Wahhab was imprisoned by the Caliphate for a few times in the Arabia for causing problems. He still preached his Islam to the Bedouin, and started a following soon. He tried to sell them the idea that Arabia was sacred, and belonged to the Bedouins.
Soon, he allied with the forebearer of Al Saud Family Muhammad Al Saud, creating a dynamic partnership between the tribal chief and the religious authority. Al Saud used Abdul Wahhab's austere form of Islam to rally other tribes towards a national cause, and established the first Saudi State based on the principles of Abdul Wahhab. Of course, the Ottomans quickly dismantled it through political and military power. Since then until 1920's, Ibn Saud's tribe remained at the forefront of rebellion until the Turkish Caliphate was absolved after WW1, after which Saud Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud (descendent of Muhammad Ibn Saud) became the first King of Saudi Arabia, and established the country based on Abdul Wahhab's principles. With oil money after 1940's, they exported this form of Islam to every other Muslim country, especially Pakistan.
It's free speech.
GillianSeed79
Member
I just can't grasp the mental gymnastics it takes for so-called religious people to equate a cartoon sketch with terrorism and hanging people for a drawing as not. I just don't get it AT ALL. I don't know much about the guy, but I have to imagine Muhammed would shake his head at this.
Baki
Member
Don't be so ignorant. Not all of Pakistan is there.
Naked Snake
Member
I'll just leave this here:
JOHN DOLAN said:
http://pando.com/2015/01/13/charlie-hebdo-unmournable-frenchies/
I probably shouldn't laugh, but this picture is just too much.
Yeah. That'd totally convince the world that this is a peaceful protest.
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