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[joecanada]

I don't get the obsession over comparing console hardware to PC. It's apples to oranges. The gulf in functionality/flexibility and software library between the two is massive.

It's mainly not people interested in builds at all but more people trying to justify their purchase. Basically if you're going to put out 500 or more, to play games I personally would want the option to control the fps, have full control of other settings, software ...and to me that's worth an extra couple hundred I save on software, subs... But that's just me . I still love consoles just not for premium stuff .

 

[ScientificPizza]

Yeah but good luck getting every game that releases to run as well as it will on the one x. I can't believe people still tout PC and console as being like for like.

Buy a game, put it in, game plays just as the devs intended be it 30 / 60 fps or native 4K / checkerboard. It's never that way on PC so good luck fucking around with endless drivers, settings, poor ports, windows I mean the list goes on.

Like if you don't know how PC gaming works in 2017 maybe just don't comment on it

 

[rtcn63]

Like if you don't know how PC gaming works in 2017 maybe just don't comment on it

More people should game on both console and PC (I do). That way we can further our understanding of one another, and perhaps even one day join forces against our true enemy- the negative influences carried over from mobile phone gaming.

 

[Dremorak]

You do know there are people who buy mid range cards for only 200$ cheaper than the top of the line right? Money is money... People can only justify so much

My point is you can't say Xbone is better value when while a good PC does cost more, you can also do a lot more with it.

 

[Syrus]

Theirs no way.

You have to consider case , psu , fans , all the cards and boards, ethernet, wifi , etc

 

[rtcn63]

Theirs no way.

You have to consider case , psu , fans , all the cards and boards, ethernet, wifi , etc

Are there any modern mobos that don't come with ethernet? Wifi is still an optional premium, sure.

 

[GeordieMark]

My point is you can't say Xbone is better value when while a good PC does cost more, you can also do a lot more with it.

Value varies from person to person. It really depends what you want a games machine for and what you expect from it. If you don't want or need the extra functionality of a PC, those features dont really matter.

 

[rtcn63]

Value varies from person to person. It really depends what you want a games machine for and what you expect from it. If you don't want or need the extra functionality of a PC, those features dont really matter.

Value in gaming hardware? Console likely wins. Value in overall gaming- PC games tend to be much cheaper. Humble bundles and their ilk are a thing. Plus free online more than not (MMO subs still exist to some extent). Huge number of F2P games, and giveaways are very common.

And barring super old games and trash ports, you get to your keep your library from generation to generation. No need to rebuy your PS3-era games to play on your PS4-era capable PC. Or even if you have to upgrade the hardware to play PS5-era games, you'd still have that library at no extra cost. (And you can run them at better settings if the game allows.)

 

[xiaxdragon]

the problem is not CPU....the problem is getting a GFX card cheap enough that can do 4K/30 for most things and 4K/60 with sacrafices.

No matter what CPU you basically get to run a new GFX card its going to murder a Jaguar CPU in terms of performance......problem is there is no way you are using a Jaguar style or super cheap CPU in a PC to even get close to the same performance as a console.

For some odd reason PC games still only use the first 4 cores for the most part while Dev's access the rest of the cores for usage on console though.

 

[Asmodai48]

Cant play online with that $499 Xbox though can ya

 

[SHAFT MASTER]

The whole point is your long term investment is pretty good on PC gaming whereas you also don't magically get to subtract the cost of your 360 that you bought either then according to your argument, online sub either .... If you bought a PC tower 10 years ago and you just threw a 1070 in there that's pretty damn high power on your return.

That's great and all and you can write an essay on how much more practical or versatile or the 15,000 things that your PC can do better than an xbox but that's not what is being talked about here.
People are comparing the cost of a new xbonex and a new PC. Not the cost of upgrading your older PC and buying a new Xbox and then getting all defensive and saying how much better their PC is.

 

[Magwik]

Cant play online with that $499 Xbox though can ya

Wot

 

[Asmodai48]

Wot

Is online gaming free?

 

[Nutter]

I do believe this is often brought up is because dedicated console gamers simply aren't aware of the state of optical (both for video and gaming) on PC. It's just not really a thing. Digital has been, I believe, the primary delivery method for like the past decade.

How does that refute the fact that it DOES have it and should be included in the cost?

PC players must feel insecure about their $1000 purchase when they cant shit on a console.

 

[Fitts]

It's mainly not people interested in builds at all but more people trying to justify their purchase. Basically if you're going to put out 500 or more, to play games I personally would want the option to control the fps, have full control of other settings, software ...and to me that's worth an extra couple hundred I save on software, subs... But that's just me . I still love consoles just not for premium stuff .

Makes sense. Good call on cheaper software and free multiplayer too. And yeah, as a hypothetical if someone put a gun to my head and made me choose between my 1070/i7 HTPC build but I had no control over graphics settings or my 1050/i3 arcade build and I could tweak whatever I want I'd honestly take the latter.

I also own consoles and will continue to do so as long as they have exclusives that I "need" to play.

 

[rtcn63]

Is online gaming free?

Realistically, if you factor in cost savings from (generally) cheaper PC games + free online + the non-need to rebuy your library from generation to generation- even spending a few hundred more on a PC than an XBX doesn't look so bad over the long term. I'm almost positive that a PC with an i5 + 480/1060 now will be able run PS5/XB2 games at least at similar settings, or at worst require a mid-range GPU drop-in at said time.

BUT. People seem to be only talking initial hardware cost and nothing else...

How does that refute the fact that it DOES have it and should be included in the cost?

Because it's not gaming-related. Like others have said- there are things a PC can inherently do, both with regards to gaming and not, that a console can't. You can run Excel on a PC. You can encode videos and write term papers. You can burn DVD's, unless consoles have an add-on DVD writer that isn't well-known.

But none of those things are exactly gaming-related (or at all), so they shouldn't be factored in. What does a 4K blu-ray drive do for gaming?

 

[Aztechnology]

Wot

They're technically right. Unless you already have live, you have to factor that in. But it doesn't change much. Aside from the CPU, the machine is a very impressive piece of hardware. Getting 1070 performance in there at that price is no small feat. Although it's bottlenecked by the CPU it seems.

I still wouldn't recommend it over a PC if you're willing to give PC a chance. Especially with the occasional insane deals we've seen on budget gaming PC's. ( Although Cryptoboom has hurt that alot.) Just gives you a lot more in the long run.

 

[Asmodai48]

Realistically, if you factor in cost savings from (generally) cheaper PC games + free online + the non-need to rebuy your library from generation to generation- even spending a few hundred more on a PC than an XBX doesn't look so bad over the long term. I'm almost positive that a PC with an i5 + 480/1060 now will be able run PS5/XB2 games at least at similar settings, or at worst a mid-range GPU drop-in at said time.

BUT. People seem to be only talking initial hardware cost and nothing else...

Yea exactly.

 

[Octavia]

You can't, point for point.

Can you get close though? Absolutely. A 1060-Ryzen/modern Intel build ends around $500 if you aren't particular about your case being cheapo, and windows 10 is technically free if you don't care about it nagging you to activate ($31 if you do care). Of course, that's missing the bluray drive.

There's lots of tricks you can use as well to sway the argument either way. Technically I didn't buy this PC this gen, so I could just sell my current gpu and buy a 1080ti and be pretty far past the scorpio. What fun is fudging numbers though?

But that's not really the point. The point is: Is it a good value for a console? Yeah, I'd say if you can put up with a console ecosystem and OS it is indeed a good value.

 

[LordRaptor]

How does that refute the fact that it DOES have it and should be included in the cost?

And I'm sure if the XOXO had a built in bottle opener then suddenly every PC owner would have to add in the cost of a bottle opener to "equal" its capabilities

e:
it was a stupid argument when PS3 early adopters were trying to justify $599, its a stupid argument now

 

[Magwik]

Is online gaming free?

Shit games cost money too my man.

 

[Anion]

XOXO?

Hugs and kisses and hugs and kisses

 

[Asmodai48]

Shit games cost money too my man.

Lol ok

 

[Gren]

Why the hell are the PC folk setting the bar at 4k/30fps/medium?

Have you seen the Forza 7 demo and Turn 10 comments?

Forza was one of the exceptions running at 1080p/60fps on vanilla Xbox One. Its performance on X alone doesn't necessarily indicate what to expect for all the FPSes, open-world, & 3rd party titles yet to come.

 

[SapientWolf]

And I'm sure if the XOXO had a built in bottle opener then suddenly every PC owner would have to add in the cost of a bottle opener to "equal" its capabilities

e:
it was a stupid argument when PS3 early adopters were trying to justify $599, its a stupid argument now

Yes? That's the premise here.

 

[ViolentP]

Yes? That's the premise here.

Why not then buy the same case and all the same components and concede that the only point to this exercise is to address that Microsoft gets bulk discounting on its components?

 

[rtcn63]

Yes? That's the premise here.

If the bottle opener was relevant to the gaming aspect. Like you needed one to install games because plastic for jewel cases became a rare material after WWIII, so companies resorted to using recycled beer bottles.

Although I'm not sure how you'd enter a Steam key with it...

But once again, if we're talking non-gaming, there's a LOT a PC can do that modern consoles can't. Even without additional hardware. I can stream Twitch and YT at the same time while running an indie game in a small window beneath the control bar at nHD. Well that I guess technically counts as gaming, and so does multi-monitor support...

 

[Gamezone]

At least I can ignore 4K on PC, and choose a desirable 1080p 60fps with ultra settings instead, which should be more than enough. Everything doesn't have to be in 4K.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

But why would I build a 4k 30 fps Pc anyway. $500 would be hard to make a 4k Pc because I wouldn't have cheaper out on a weak CPU

 

[LQX]

Another thing that should be factored is the cost of games. I routinely pay far less for PC games, even new releases. So that cost difference pays for itself in no time.

 

[Kelsdesu]

980s still cost 499?

 

[Vipu]

Pc might struggle to win consoles in initial lowtier cost fight but in long run PC beats consoles 100-0 in cost.
Just after 3 years when you have to upgrade to ps5 for 500$ to get 20% improvement you can get 500$ GPU to pc that gives 100% improvement.

 

[the_darkness]

Like if you don't know how PC gaming works in 2017 maybe just don't comment on it

Every game with a performance thread on gaf is full of posters complaining about a game not performing the way it should be.

 

[the_darkness]

You can't, point for point.

Can you get close though? Absolutely. A 1060-Ryzen/modern Intel build ends around $500 if you aren't particular about your case being cheapo,

lol no it doesn't.

 

[TyrantII]

The box is selling for a loss at this price point, so no surprises there. That said, it should cut above it's worth on paper a bit as well since it's dedicated hardware.

Are they keeping medium settings and 4k in mind? Remember MSONY is putting IQ way above preformance this gen due to their CPU limitations.

 

[dcx4610]

Why would you gimp yourself by building a PC with XB1X specs is the real question. You can certainly come close to $500 but why limit yourself?

Microsoft is also building these things in mass so their is a discount with the hardware. It's like going to McDonalds and getting a double cheeseburger for 99c. Could you go to the grocery store and buy all the available ingredients and make the same thing for 99c? Of course not. You could however spend more money and get a much better burger.

 

[Reg]

Pc might struggle to win consoles in initial lowtier cost fight but in long run PC beats consoles 100-0 in cost.
Just after 3 years when you have to upgrade to ps5 for 500$ to get 20% improvement you can get 500$ GPU to pc that gives 100% improvement.

quite the imagination you have.

 

[Apparition]

I would like someone to try and stay as close as possible to the form factor which means to go for one of those ultra slim PC cases (which are not always cheap). I only have a limited space behind my TV for a box that is placed vertically (which the X seems to have trouble with giving the new air design on the sides and the back) so a big PC case is a no-no.

As for the cost of ownership, I think it should be calculated over a period of 3-5 years rather than the initial investment. One can factor in costs like:

- Cost of games (and resaleability if any)
- Online gaming costs (if applicable)
- Upgrade path (how much it would cost to go "next gen").

One last point, that is highly debatable, is the non-game functionalities and usage should be included in the equation. How much gaming vs other things are you doing. What is the usability like and such? Sure this means different things to different people in the way the costs are divided and justified, but that is how I see it.

 

[Dinky Dino]

quite the imagination you have.

Well the concept is right but the percentages are made up

Say you spend 600 bucks for a ryzen pc

Xb1x at $500 and with three years of paid online that's $180. Or $680

Come three years later, you're gonna get another console at 400-500 while paying another $60 for the onlne fee. On pc you throw all the funds into a video card assuming you're fine with 60 fps. You could also get a 300 dollar card and save for other parts

Even if you say you're not paying anything for getting online you still have that deficit

 

[Easy_D]

Duh?

You're not getting the same performance and hardware for the same price right now.



Matching the same "hardware" is near impossible price wise. As is 4k/60 in the games that will run at that on X1X. Maybe by the end of the year.

Games generally won't run 4K/60 on the platform because it still has the same CPU limitations as the other consoles, thanks to Jaguar. It'll run stuff at high-res stuff fine though.

But the GPU is probably custom as heck to add all the extra juice needed for AF/AA/4K rendering and not much else, which is why it's 499 and not more, in the PC space you can't just get a GPU like that so anything with 4K capabilities will have a ton more features on it driving the cost up. I'm willing to wager any 4K graded PC GPU will outclass the XboneX rather handily.

 

[tanooki27]

does anyone else mentally pronounce XOX as zocks

 

[flkraven]

Well the concept is right but the percentages are made up

Say you spend 600 bucks for a ryzen pc

Xb1x at $500 and with three years of paid online that's $180. Or $680

Come three years later, you're gonna get another console at 400-500 while paying another $60 for the onlne fee. On pc you throw all the funds into a video card assuming you're fine with 60 fps. You could also get a 300 dollar card and save for other parts

Even if you say you're not paying anything for getting online you still have that deficit

If you are going to include the cost of XBL for 3 years, may as well include the savingsfrom getting 150 games included during that time frame.

 

[CrustyBritches]

For Win10, mini-itx case/mobo, psu, i5, 8GB DDR4, RX580/GTX 1060, 1TB HDD, UHD BD, and Xbox One gamepad+bluetooth receiver and cheap KB/M you're looking at like $800-900.

Really need something like a 980ti or 1070 to put you over the hump. I've seen Asus prebuilt with i5/GTX 1070 for $950 lately. That's an atx mid-tower as well.

 

[ViolentP]

If you are going to include the cost of XBL for 3 years, may as well include the savingsfrom getting 150 games included during that time frame.

That's not how savings work.

 

[TaterTots]

Value varies from person to person. It really depends what you want a games machine for and what you expect from it. If you don't want or need the extra functionality of a PC, those features dont really matter.

I mean, you can literally do anything on a PC. It's an all in one package that can do all. Wanna pause a game and surf the web without pulling out a laptop or phone? Alt+tab. Wanna listen to some tunes while you play? Alt+tab. It's not only a gaming machine, but the world is at your finger tips without the restrictions of an console.

 

[n0razi]

They need to do it again when the XOX actually releases and everything is cheaper. A GTX 1060 goes for around $250 now and will be around $150 by then

 

[texhnolyze]

Honestly, I think the gap is getting closer with these mid-gen refresh consoles.

Last gen until the start of the current gen, you can build a PC comparable with consoles both in specs and performance (like DF's PC or the Potato Masher). But with the checkerboard 4K, PC build is starting to struggle to match the cost/performance of these consoles. At $500, you can only get a 1060 at most and it's definetely not a 4K card. I also doubt it can match Pro/X performance at 4K 30fps. Checkerboard is a legit tech and we need it on PC.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Honestly, I think the gap is getting closer with these mid-gen refresh consoles.

Last gen until the start of the current gen, you can build a PC comparable with consoles both in specs and performance (like DF's PC or the Potato Masher). But with the checkerboard 4K, PC build is starting to struggle to match the cost/performance of these consoles. At $500, you can only get a 1060 at most and it's definetely not a 4K card. I also doubt it can match Pro/X performance at 4K 30fps. Checkerboard is a legit tech and we need it on PC.

The task appears to be 4K/30 or 60 in games that the X1X will be able to run at said frame rate/resolution. Given the PC requirements on games like Forza 7 (which appear very light), I'm not sure a 1060 can't do it. But we won't know until we have actual X1X's on the market to test.

For Win10, mini-itx case/mobo, psu, i5, 8GB DDR4, RX580/GTX 1060, 1TB HDD, UHD BD, and Xbox One gamepad+bluetooth receiver and cheap KB/M you're looking at like $800-900.

Really need something like a 980ti or 1070 to put you over the hump. I've seen Asus prebuilt with i5/GTX 1070 for $950 lately. That's an atx mid-tower as well.

but the i5 is overkill if the goal is to compare to the X1X. that jaguar is a piece of shit. I'm pretty sure i3's are considerably more powerful.

and who doesn't already own a gamepad? any X1, 360, PS4, PS3, Switch Pro controller will do.

anyway, looks like one can do a prebuilt HP + a 1060 today for about $700. Maybe less with HP coupons and that would be upgradeable and with a superior i5 CPU.

By the time Black Friday is here...well...you'll be in business if a $500 PC is something you really want. :-/

 

[Trojan X]

I am hugely sceptical that third parties are going to be putting in work to leverage an XBX optimised port when they can't be arsed to so the same for the larger PS4Pro userbase.



Scorpio

The market wasn't there before and making sure that your game is scalable demand production time and money. With the XboX now coming out, the market for upscaling games would increase enough for more developers to benefit with further sales. This is especially going to be the case if the dev creates everything in mind for PC scaling first as that mentality would make everything even more adaptable for PSPro and XboX. Heh, I guess you can be grateful that the XboX is coming out.

 

[the_darkness]

They need to do it again when the XOX actually releases and everything is cheaper. A GTX 1060 goes for around $250 now and will be around $150 by then

A 1060 is not going to cost $150 in November.