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Penny Arcade Report on KOF 13: "casual sexism", "cringe-inducing racial imagery"
- Thread starter sibarraz
- Start date
ShinMaruku
Member
I find it comical when KOF fans call DOA too pervy. Mai King lsoing her clothes Yuri attacking you with her ass, KOF is king at this stuff. That said this 'review' was really not looking into if the game is good or not and seems to be looking for something to attack to seem 'progressive' Since this is a Japanese game it will have some odd stuff in it that will seem offensive to somebody with a broader view than the creators would even think of.
I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or you're talking out your ass.
King of what exactly? You mention 3 things... one being wrong.
That post combined with the avatar rings of cognitive dissonance.
D
Deleted member 74300
Unconfirmed Member
thesolidshark
Member
KOF only having recently brought back torn clothes after 16 years (Mai never lost her clothes btw), one goofball attack from Yuri, and having two games where Mai, the "iconic sexist fighting game character" as absent from the main roster two games straight (KOF XI and XII) somehow bests the series known for customizable jiggly physics and
This is your argument?
If you were being sarcastic, sorry for not picking up on it
Might want to fix that bold. Yes there's plenty of innuendo in KOF, sure (the grappler Shermie has a special called 'Busty Suplex', in which she thrusts her chest toward's the women and the costumes they wear, the positions they're in after they lose, the physics on their chest, and you see that DOA is in a whole different league.
Even their all-women fighting game, Gals Fighters, were pretty damn tame despite the idea of all the women from KOF competing in a tourney ran buy a drag queen Iori Yagami.
It's even funnier considering that Iori's total clueless nature towards women makes him easily pointed out among the cast of Gals Fighters.
ShinMaruku
Member
You guys don't find it somewhat hypocritical for any fighting game player to call out DOA for being perverted when all those games have that stuff? You are not going to tell me Mai bouncing with no shame or Angel or any of the other nice looking ladies are not fan service, or Ivy's cup size increasing every game is a nod to fan service as well.
Just saying you can look at any of these games and call something 'problematic.' KOF is just a easier target with it's dance.
Just saying you can look at any of these games and call something 'problematic.' KOF is just a easier target with it's dance.
Wait.. Ivy? Why we bringing Ivy into it now? You confusing your games son?
ShinMaruku
Member
No, I'm saying all fighting games have perverted stuff and calling out one game for it is hypocritical. And KOF has much more than Just Mai being fan service.
You argued that KOF was worse than DOA.
thesolidshark
Member
There's having "perverted" (subjective) stuff, and then there's going as far as DOA has gone. Whole games dedicated to playing girls in bikini's? The closest SNK ever got to that might've been was SNK Gals Fighters on NG Pocket, and that was still a fighter.
ShinMaruku
Member
All of the tropes done with Mai is more perverted than DOA. I remember one site (I think it's down now) That had some screen of Mai's animation being a tad bit too detailed for a game at the time. (I wish I could find it again but alas that site has been down for years.)
Bzzz wrong. She never showed nudity or anything of sort. I know what you're talking about, it was little boys wanting to see more than what was really there.
There has been one case of a nudity in an SNK, name the character, game, and how it's triggered and I'll give you a cookie for actually knowing what you're talking about.
BoosterDuck
Banned
ShinMaruku
Member
All of the gaming press seems to be going down the barrel. I guess not enough news to report and not enough people confident that other stories can be told. End of Gen doldrums I guess.
And if you guys are going to link the beach volleyball games rather than the fighting game get the more racy ones. Show some effort.
Thank god you guys never seen the bast fiends 
Are you reffering to this?
That's the worst Mai's done outside of her idle animation. Her butt is the most that she shows. I've never seen Mai wear clamshell bikinis or twerk on a stripper pole, man. Mai doesn't see herself as a "sexy" person, nor does she flaunt her beauty to other men besides Andy (unless when she's fighting.)
ShinMaruku
Member
I would cite B Janet too but she's not KOF.
So nice to see a spirited defense on KOF but man it's still perverted in some of it's characters. (Which I was getting at. Probably could have worded it better)
So nice to see a spirited defense on KOF but man it's still perverted in some of it's characters. (Which I was getting at. Probably could have worded it better)
Dimitri LH
Member
Never really found KoF pervy/Gross at all, sure I thought the shirt ripping was silly and uneeded, also, DOA as much as I love it, is the worst offender of this.
This topic reminded me of Soul Calibur 4/5 armor breaking...
This topic reminded me of Soul Calibur 4/5 armor breaking...
She was in XI. And her design is MUCH better and tastful than Mai's (to the point where even the developers are aware, due to her rivalry/differences with Mai. She calls her an old hag.)
Pretty sure that's an edit isn't it?
ShinMaruku
Member
Gross? No KOF is all class (Aside from Mai god bless her for being as she is)
And no it's not and edit that was a older animation from when she wins. It's just ended mid animation. She does show that much skin. She also had a booty in a genre where girls had no plump asses I was pleased.
And no it's not and edit that was a older animation from when she wins. It's just ended mid animation. She does show that much skin. She also had a booty in a genre where girls had no plump asses I was pleased.
I don't at all want to suggest that Andrew Groen should be denied his opinion - I think he's as entitled to it as I am to mine. I can also see where, on some level, there could be a legitimate argument to be made against Mai as a positive female character.
BUT! I think that's an easy, and potentially lazy, argument to make when you're unfamiliar with the character or SNK's history with female characters.
I posted this to Twitter, so instead of just re-writing the exact same here, I'll quote myself:
As I said there, I think it's crazy to claim SNK as sexist when you take a look at their history of characters. They have years and years of characters, female and male, that have gone against the grain or provided hints of character types that aren't always pushed in gaming. And, I mean, the amount of non-sexualized female characters from SNK compared to sexualized ones is craaazy. Another of my favorite SNK femmes is Charlotte - a woman who is covered head to toe in heavy armor.
I don't know Groen's history in gaming, but I can't help but feel he's got minimal legitimate experience with SNK, their games, and characters. And when you come at a topic with little knowledge or history on said topic, it can damage the serious conversations that need to happen on that topic.
With DOA coming up, there is a game that I think legitimate arguments can be made against. Every female in that game is sexualized with very similar, voluptuous body types, no matter their role or character trope. There's no balance to the sexuality, no real contrast to that idea. On the opposite end, KOF has a female character that's sexy and showing skin and over the top, but then a roster of very different female characters who provide contrast against her. There's balance. Also - IMHO - DOA's cast are a bunch of vapid airheads who have to struggle to display any kind of real personality, where as Mai has real personality and charm.
(As to the clothes ripping off of Yuri and King, it's a nod back to the AOF days, but one that I'll agreed isn't necessarily appropriate anymore.)
BUT! I think that's an easy, and potentially lazy, argument to make when you're unfamiliar with the character or SNK's history with female characters.
I posted this to Twitter, so instead of just re-writing the exact same here, I'll quote myself:
As I said there, I think it's crazy to claim SNK as sexist when you take a look at their history of characters. They have years and years of characters, female and male, that have gone against the grain or provided hints of character types that aren't always pushed in gaming. And, I mean, the amount of non-sexualized female characters from SNK compared to sexualized ones is craaazy. Another of my favorite SNK femmes is Charlotte - a woman who is covered head to toe in heavy armor.
I don't know Groen's history in gaming, but I can't help but feel he's got minimal legitimate experience with SNK, their games, and characters. And when you come at a topic with little knowledge or history on said topic, it can damage the serious conversations that need to happen on that topic.
With DOA coming up, there is a game that I think legitimate arguments can be made against. Every female in that game is sexualized with very similar, voluptuous body types, no matter their role or character trope. There's no balance to the sexuality, no real contrast to that idea. On the opposite end, KOF has a female character that's sexy and showing skin and over the top, but then a roster of very different female characters who provide contrast against her. There's balance. Also - IMHO - DOA's cast are a bunch of vapid airheads who have to struggle to display any kind of real personality, where as Mai has real personality and charm.
(As to the clothes ripping off of Yuri and King, it's a nod back to the AOF days, but one that I'll agreed isn't necessarily appropriate anymore.)
Might want to fix that bold. Yes there's plenty of innuendo in KOF, sure (the grappler Shermie has a special called 'Busty Suplex', in which she thrusts her chest toward's the women and the costumes they wear, the positions they're in after they lose, the physics on their chest, and you see that DOA is in a whole different league.
Even their all-women fighting game, Gals Fighters, were pretty damn tame despite the idea of all the women from KOF competing in a tourney ran buy a drag queen Iori Yagami.
It's even funnier considering that Iori's total clueless nature towards women makes him easily pointed out among the cast of Gals Fighters.
lolwut? What system is this on!? :O
ShinMaruku
Member
Neogeo pocket. I had one of them. Never had this game though...
He was the boss, went by the name "Miss X". The game pretty much was setup as a comical fighter much like pocket fighter. Everyone's moves had ridiculous animations.
Dimitri LH
Member
Some of the DoA 4 endings were.....yeah. Ive yet to play DoA 5 story but I hope its not a teenage boys wet dream again.
Also thought the stage filled with stereotypes thing is a cool/funny thing, I doubt people were offended by it.
Also thought the stage filled with stereotypes thing is a cool/funny thing, I doubt people were offended by it.
Snapshot King
Member
All of the gaming press seems to be going down the barrel. I guess not enough news to report and not enough people confident that other stories can be told. End of Gen doldrums I guess.
And if you guys are going to link the beach volleyball games rather than the fighting game get the more racy ones. Show some effort.
Thank god you guys never seen the bast fiends
Bast fiends?
ShinMaruku
Member
Ninja Gaiden has some interesting monsters. Is all I will say.
Different writers makes the original comment somewhat irrelevant. That aside he did call out the females in Injustice for what it is worth.
Holy crap that sounds awesome. I would love to play this but I wager my chances of stumbling upon a cheap Neo Geo Pocket these days is about as high as hitting the Powerball.
Issues that don't exist.
This is like saying Obama has serious issues because Fox News talking heads accused him of racism.
Deified Data
Banned
You're giving too much credit to an industry that will forget about misogyny and equal representation in games the second a hotter buzzword comes to mind. That's not to say the discussion isn't meaningful and worth having, but the second it stops getting clicks they'll move on to "Does this game promote a healthy lifestyle?" or "Are there enough marsupials in games?"...
akachan ningen
Member
The most hilarious thing about this POS article is that they complain that some of the characters are misogynistic. As if every character, even the villains, have to be politically correct.
GhaleonQ
Member
I don't disagree.
Still, S.N.K. is the lamest of targets. If this was 1 of their sellout games, I'd read. The King Of Fighters 13 is jovial, Kuchera. JOVIAL.
South Americans play fighting games like this, North Americans play fighting games like that. *mic drop*
This is what we meant by "characterization," let's be honest.
I would say it's in the conversation in "best handheld fighting game," too. At the very least, it's a magnificent game that's so very, very S.N.K.
I truly wonder what kind of homogenized games we'll be playing in the future... Everyone looks and talks the same and every country should be represented equally, with no stereotypes. The characters and roles given will be the same for everyone so that no one can say one gender had better representation.
It's always these niche American 'blog' sites, who try and use reviews of video games to talk about social justice issues, as if that's what people are reading the review for.
I don't watch Inglorious Basterds and decry the laughable Nazi stereotypes or how France is shown etc. in the review.
It's always these niche American 'blog' sites, who try and use reviews of video games to talk about social justice issues, as if that's what people are reading the review for.
I don't watch Inglorious Basterds and decry the laughable Nazi stereotypes or how France is shown etc. in the review.
So why is this article coming out now, when KoF XIII has been out for well over a year? Is it in the news lately? I don't follow KoF XIII stuff, so I wouldn't know.
Also, since when have French women been stereotyped as being over weight? It's usually the opposite.
Edit: nvm, recently released on Steam. Still kind of late though.
Also, since when have French women been stereotyped as being over weight? It's usually the opposite.
Edit: nvm, recently released on Steam. Still kind of late though.
Mr. Pointy
Member
Choppasmith
Member
Beautifully said. Bravo!
Even their all-women fighting game, Gals Fighters, were pretty damn tame despite the idea of all the women from KOF competing in a tourney ran buy a drag queen Iori Yagami.
It's even funnier considering that Iori's total clueless nature towards women makes him easily pointed out among the cast of Gals Fighters.
Penny Arcade Report on Gals Fighters: "mocking transexuals"
In any case, in all fairness to ShinMaruku, KoF MI 2 was a game where they really tried to sink to DoA's level. Since he (she?) mentioned B Jenet, I'll use her as an example.
Original Garou art by Tonko
Special promo art by Kita Senri (you may recognizer her work on Fire Emblem)
KoF XI art by Hiroaki
I've always liked B Jennet for being "sexy with an air of class about her". Yeah she's very va va voom, but she's got a personality to really match that look.
Aaand we get to her MI 2 appearance where the let fan artist Falcoon go wild.
All he did was inflate her breasts a bit and made some cuts to her dress, but that "class"
is gone and she now looks like a wild teen girl on Spring Break. Although I do like the alternate "colors" themselves.
Also her "alternate" since we've brought up fighting characters in bikinis
Granted, it's not as bad as what Mary (another character I like for being sexy with class) got
Dimitri LH
Member
Im guessing its due to the game being recently released on PC via Steam.