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Penny Arcade Report on KOF 13: "casual sexism", "cringe-inducing racial imagery"
- Thread starter sibarraz
- Start date
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
I am so tired of video games reinforcing the widely held and very hurtful stereotype that ALL INDIAN PEOPLE RIDE ELEPHANTS ALL THE TIME! It's just goddamn wrong and offensive! Thank you Andrew Groen for your bravery and incisive criticism in addressing this issue.
This article is terrible, you guys.
Edited because I mistakenly accused Ben Kuchera of writing this garbage. Apologies to Kuchera.
This article is terrible, you guys.
Edited because I mistakenly accused Ben Kuchera of writing this garbage. Apologies to Kuchera.
Haunted
Member
Ben Kuchera didn't write it.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Yup, I corrected myself.
Is this article satire maybe? Maybe Gabe and Tycho are trying to prove a point by having someone write a terrible article about hot button issues and proving that they attract attention irrespective of their merit?
TheSpoiler
Member
SF4 is the explanation: nobody escapes the pokes at stereotypes, and in that game, it's the most obvious. SFII modeled the characters after cliches in media: the American tuff guy solider, the karate guy from Japan, the kempo kicker from China, etc.
True. Never noticed that thanks to Mai.
ShinMaruku
Member
While KOF does have some pervy things. (I remember in the old game if you slowed down Mai's animations on some moves you get a treat) it's just a product of being a Japanese game built in the 90s. Compared to now the 90s was a more racist and sexist place than it is today(Only in the west really some places it has not changed)
I doubt it was even given the thought that the guy reviewing the game gave it on some of the designs. I'll giving fighting games one thing though they are far more inclusive in their casts than most other games.
I doubt it was even given the thought that the guy reviewing the game gave it on some of the designs. I'll giving fighting games one thing though they are far more inclusive in their casts than most other games.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Disclaimer: I never played any KoF games.
Now I looked at those ladies that were posted above, and I'm someone who has no qualms about pointing out blatant objectification and the gratuitous sexualisation of females in gaming (this doesn't stop me from enjoying many games that do feature these, obviously).
And.... I have to say: that's it? These ladies are perfectly fine. Only the infamous Mai is iffy and if she's the only one out of an ensemble cast, it's not a problem (the problem isn't with specific "sexy individuals", it's when it becomes over-the-top and obnoxiously common). So yeah, I'm all for criticism of dubious portrayals of women, but this is a really poor example to pick on. If anything, their outfits are surprisingly conservative. So uh, what gives. :S
Now I looked at those ladies that were posted above, and I'm someone who has no qualms about pointing out blatant objectification and the gratuitous sexualisation of females in gaming (this doesn't stop me from enjoying many games that do feature these, obviously).
And.... I have to say: that's it? These ladies are perfectly fine. Only the infamous Mai is iffy and if she's the only one out of an ensemble cast, it's not a problem (the problem isn't with specific "sexy individuals", it's when it becomes over-the-top and obnoxiously common). So yeah, I'm all for criticism of dubious portrayals of women, but this is a really poor example to pick on. If anything, their outfits are surprisingly conservative. So uh, what gives. :S
Mai hasn't shown nudity... not sure what you're talking about. Blue Mary is the only SNK character that I know of that's been nude in game.
thank you for changing the title of the thread.
And yes, I believe this article is reductionary and complete bullshit. Way to go after the 3 year old game after it's important time of relevency to make your fucking quota. Fuck off.
KOF13 is great, and if you get caught up over MAI(!!!!) you should stop playing video games.
And yes, I believe this article is reductionary and complete bullshit. Way to go after the 3 year old game after it's important time of relevency to make your fucking quota. Fuck off.
KOF13 is great, and if you get caught up over MAI(!!!!) you should stop playing video games.
thesolidshark
Member
I agree that not all reviews have to be identical, but I could barely call this a review of a video game. The politest title I can give this is an incomplete review. The whole thing feels like an opinion piece with lots of assumptions, or a review of a work of art. Like other people have mentioned, it seems to go over a lot of interactive elements like afterthoughts, if at all.
Game modes? # of characters? How to play? Extra features? Difficulty? Things that most people who play games might like to know to decide their purchase. I realize this is a game that's been released nearly 2 years for most people, and people would've have gone over things like this already. However, even with new content like the improved online conditions are glossed over, and aren't directly tested by said reviewer to give his own opinion.
I won't argue over the points about Mai in-general, King/Yuri's torn clothes, or the backgrounds; I just won't agree with him that they're problems. I personally loved all the exaggerations, Mai, and didn't mind the torn clothes because of the history there (even if that remains unknown to most). If Mai deserved her own section (which included the other problems with women unrelated to Mai for some reason), where was the section for Elizabeth, who at least looks like the anti-thesis of Mai, enough to be called a "good" representation of females in fighters.
Yeah, clickbait, but still worth noting how hard it's getting to trust some "reviews" lately.
If anything, stuff like this would sell me on or make me play as Mai more often. It'd be one thing if she was a NPC or bad character to play, but with all her aerial tricks, annoyingly good normals and awesome mobility and NeoMax (NeoMax, what's that? Why didn't the review mention that?)
captmcblack
Member
This game is sexist now?
This is the 13th installment of this game (and like the 9,000th installment since the original 90s games which weren't even the first appearance of some of these characters)...I mean, c'mon.
This is the 13th installment of this game (and like the 9,000th installment since the original 90s games which weren't even the first appearance of some of these characters)...I mean, c'mon.
People not talking about things for a long time does not make something not sexist.
People not talking about things is tends to be a cause of a lot of sexism and racism actually.
So i fail to see the point here.
TheSpoiler
Member
How about "durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" instead.
Yeah that's the thing. If you want to take on sexism in games and character design, go for it; King of Fighters is not the one to flip out over.
I could've sworn it was more out of defiance than anything else, with Takuma having preferred her to take Kyokugen more seriously and be more traditional in her technique.
not_so_special
Banned
Finaika
Member
So when you blast Yuri's clothes off you're supposed to be surprised that she's a girl?
Ripping off under-aged girls clothes is damn pedo creepy.
Yuri's 20.
Finaika
Member
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Hm these are all really well done character designs. Even the most indulgent is still pretty tame by the standards of say, Soul Caliber
She's been legal since her inception. She looks older than both Kula Diamond and Athena.
You know this stage reminds me of Metal Slug.
You can talk about things,sure, but if you refuse to acknowledge the majority of the subject and choose to focus on the minority, then it's stupid. (The Minority being, Women Fighters Team, since that's the entirety of where the sexism argument lies.)
She is older than them. That said, Kula looks older than either of them in-game, in spite of being younger than both.
Gormless Noodle
Member
Ah, good ole (hypocritical) American morality police.
Or well, I suppose this is more of a Fox News strategy than anything else.
Or well, I suppose this is more of a Fox News strategy than anything else.
Metal Gear?!
Member
Plugging your ears and shouting LALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU doesn't make the issues go away.
This is the cultural criticism that comes with being a work of art.
Is this work from another culture not being sold in their culture?
She's an anime drawing of indeterminate age?
How about this, can we agree that it's super fucking creepy to have a woman's clothes tear off as a reward for "winning" and physically dominating their opponent?
And this isn't the first time someone in the gaming press (or here at GAF) has brought it up, but maybe we should keep bringing it up because the hollowed out shell of SNK/Playmore isn't getting the message?
Maybe one finds issue with that one thing.
Eh, her outfit is very very stupid. In a word if her outfit could be summed up, and outfits like her they would be called Miley Cyrus.
No, why?
Metal Gear?!
Member
You still can, no one can force you to care.
What you cannot do is remain ignorant, now that you have read this article/thread.
I can agree, sure. There's no need to exaggerate and sensationalize it.
Sure. But that one thing isn't representative of the entirety of the product.
If there's an overwhelming majority of something done right/tasteful compared to one thing done tasteless/wrong, then it's fine. It's called variety. It's called choice. I would say something if ALL of the characters were blatant eyecandy, but they're not.
Seems simple enough to conclude that it's superfluous, yes.
thesolidshark
Member
Feels like pre-internet popularity days.
Chances are your voices won't be as loud as the "No Mai, No Buy" ones.
I actually hope by you bringing it up, it'll garner more attention to it in general get SNK to do it more often, preferably for every character. If they won't bring back Art of Fighting where that feature was prominent, bring it to KOF.
I disagree on her outfit being stupid, but even if I did, comparing a stupid kunoichi outfit to Miley Cyrus would be highly offensive to the kunoichi.
You can, in fact, be ignorant to someone's opinion.
Oh I agree.
While I do not like KOF's character designs in general, sexy over being good they are not.
That is the issue i have with skull girls however, so many of those character designs ruined because someone thought it was impossible for a woman to be sexy with pants.
We should go back to breaking games down by multiple metrics in reviews. Graphics, sound, gameplay, etc., but there should be a new category, which is: political correctness. Which, of course, is binary, and if you fail the thought control check, the game should receive a score of zero/fail. Better yet, these evil games with wrongness in them should never be seen by the public. Or better still, they should never be made. Maybe we should have a council of correctness set up by the UN who then would approve every piece of story and concept art before the game is actually produced.
But the least we should do is turn gaming journalism into one big social justice tumblr. We're not aggressive and juvenile enough, but we're getting there.
But the least we should do is turn gaming journalism into one big social justice tumblr. We're not aggressive and juvenile enough, but we're getting there.
Kolvenbach
Banned
this is exactly the type of thing i was talking about in a previous thread, fake controversy and political correctness gone wild. If something offends you dont look at it..... argh!
I will say that the jungle stage makes me go "hmmm"
They did.
Sophie Prell wrote the Penny Arcade Report review on that one, and while she calls the game a "jiggle simulator" in passing, Sophie also manages to write an article that actually reads like a review by someone who played the damn game.
If anything, I find the review is too easy on DOA from that perspective.
edit: that's actually the vanilla DOA5 review
They did.
Sophie Prell wrote the Penny Arcade Report review on that one, and while she calls the game a "jiggle simulator" in passing, Sophie also manages to write an article that actually reads like a review by someone who played the damn game.
If anything, I find the review is too easy on DOA from that perspective.
edit: that's actually the vanilla DOA5 review
DOA: Jiggle Simulator
KOF: SEXIST GROSS FILTH THAT YOU SHOULD FEEL DISGUSTED BY.
Edit: Just saw your edit. My comment still stands, though. I wonder: is it all of the male reviews that are grossly exaggerated and sensationalized on PAR? I recall Ben Kuchera reviewing Charlie Murder and he felt sickened or something that the female player character Skelekitten didn't destroy a couch with the rest of her friends, or the fact that she only plays a tambourine in the band (when she's actually the manager.) I just don't see that sensation and ~FLAIR~ when reading other reviews written by the opposite sex.