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[MIMIC]

"...and say as many racist things as possible to make it more enjoyable."

It takes a certain type of person to find this kind of game "enjoyable."

 

[Vampire On Titus]

No you're not.

Not everyone is skillful to do humor, though. George Carlin routinely made jokes about unmentionable things. This blanket statements are beyond silly and remove nuance from the equation.

I was being satirical. Thought the Orwell bit was enough to not include /s

Now I know for the

Spoiler

dystopian

future.

 

[entremet]

I was being satirical. Thought the Orwell bit was enough to not include /s

Now I know for the

Spoiler

dystopian

future.

lol. my apologies.

it's hard to tell sometimes

 

[Soriku]

The rules

Abilities? What is this, an RPG?

 

[Solid SOAP]

"...and say as many racist things as possible to make it more enjoyable."

It takes a certain type of person to find this kind of game "enjoyable."

A high schooler, for one.

 

[Burt]

Abilities? What is this, an RPG?

It's 2016, what's a game without RPG elements?

 

[Jenenser]

I don't get it.
whats the difference between this and cards against humanity?

(and yes, thats a serious question)

 

[norm9]

I don't get it.
whats the difference between this and cards against humanity?

(and yes, thats a serious question)

These teens were filmed and presented to the internet for judgment.

Eta- you make a good point.

 

[Brakke]

Abilities? What is this, an RPG?

Literally yes.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

"You can't make excuses for stuff like this, just like you can't make excuses for the KKK or 9/11 or the slaughter of 6 million people," she wrote. "Some things are just bad, and this is one of them. Maybe you think I'm overreacting, or that I don't know how to take a joke. If this is a joke, if this is supposed to be funny - well then you'll have to excuse me because I simply cannot drink to that."

She is actually comparing this drinking game directly to the KKK, 9/11, and the Holocaust itself. WHAT IN THE FUCK.

9/11 didn't even have racial component it was a terrorist attack. The comparison doesn't even make sense even as an overreaction. Is this article some kind of satire?

 

[Solid SOAP]

I don't get it.
whats the difference between this and cards against humanity?

(and yes, thats a serious question)

This is a great point.

 

[Jarate]

"...and say as many racist things as possible to make it more enjoyable."

It takes a certain type of person to find this kind of game "enjoyable."

I'm sure when you play a drinking game, you make sure to follow the rules of a random website to the tee!

Not enough racism in that joke, Yellow card for the Jew team!

 

[Brakke]

This is a great point.

Lots of people think CAH is hateful / distasteful tho. Do we actually observe hypocrisy here?

 

[Surface of Me]

This is small time compared to some of the edge lord shit my friends and I did in high school.

 

[All Hail C-Webb]

It's hard to compare this to some example set using a different atrocity or prejudice, because each carries its own cultural and historical context, its own level of emotion, its own social implications. It's not an apples to apples thing. A game that marginalized trans students would be more worthy of scrutiny because of our national history with respect to trans people, to people with minority sexual orientation, the experience of trans people in high school and as they progress through puberty.

A game focused on Nazis and the Holocaust on the other hand doesn't carry those same implications in the liberal Northeast of the United States, where you have a high Jewish population, in a country that spent billions of dollars and thousands of lives fighting the Nazis and liberating people from concentration camps, where we as a society have it drilled into our heads (and rightfully so) that what the Nazis did was horrific and should never be allowed to happen again.

While it's a good point, a thought process like that is dangerous. We've put in a lot of work to teach people, and things are getting better, so let's just ignore when things go backwards?
The fact that Jews are looked at as extremely successful does not mean that hatred against them has disappeared, and that there is no longer reason to protect them like all other persecuted minorities.
As a kid growing up in NYC we had a visibly Jewish family living next door. There were many occasions were the kids in that house were treated wrongly because of their religion. One time we were playing ball with some other neighborhood kids when they saw the Jewish kids and told me, let's throw stones at those fucking jews (we were around 12). I put them in their place, and those kids didn't come around anymore, but it made me realize that my parents weren't so wrong when they would tell me that hatred of Jews hasn't gone away, it's just less visible because we're in a stronger position.

I honestly hate how PC everything is becoming. But if thats the direction the world is going, then it should be the same for everyone. You don't exclude someone from protection because they're doing slightly better. You use them as an example of what can happen if these groups are protected properly.

 

[Solid SOAP]

This is small time compared to some of the edge lord shit my friends and I did in high school.

Yep. Some horrific things have been said by high school me, thank god social media isn't what it is today or I'd be FUCKED.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

These teens were filmed and presented to the internet for judgment.

Eta- you make a good point.

It wasn't "the Internet", it was social media. These pictures were for their friends. Context is important here.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Lots of people think CAH is hateful / distasteful tho. Do we actually observe hypocrisy here?

I can't imagine someone actually getting offended by CAH

Then again I'm basically a laissez faire type of person when it comes to comedy and humor.

 

[Principate]

Donald Trump thanks you for your valuable contribution to his Presidential campaign! Because this fucking mentality that you need to "make an example" out of people is why he has any popularity at all.

This is bullshit and you must know this. Otherwise you must be one of the most naïve people I've come across on here.

It's totally not because there's a lot a racist people in American and that there's currently a black president. No it's because racists are facing consequences is why racists are voting for a racist candidate.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

This is bullshit and you must know this. Otherwise you must be one of the most naïve people I've come across on here.

It's totally not because there's a lot a racist people in American and that there's currently a black president. No it's because racists are facing consequences are why racists are voting for a racist candidate.

The majority of Trump people I see online and offline never say shit about Obama or any other ethnic group other than the Republican's favorite dog whistle, "Illegals". Their main problem is, hands down, PC culture. It's this kind of stuff. It's that a bunch of high school kids doing stupid shit at a private party at their house are now dragged out in front of the country for no reason. The only offensive thing about this drinking game is the rules stipulating saying racist shit. Which can easily be avoided by just not doing it.

Some of you even think these high school kids should get penalties in their college admission. For this? Do you not see why people might get a little angry over that mentality?

 

[dapperbandit]

I don't know I think that's pretty funny. Edgy of course, but joking about Nazis and the Holocaust doesn't make you a Nazi, this is obvious.

I guarantee people have said worse things about Jews and the Holocaust during games of Cards Against Humanity. This at least, when reading the rules, requires some creativity.

To me the only reason this is a story at all is because it happened at a US College. The sort of place where a bubble of delusional expectations and understandings of what constitutes ethics and justice transform future Americans into pathetic, feeble worms that need counselling if someone dares to disagree with their entirely mainstream positions.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

I don't know I think that's pretty funny. Edgy of course, but joking about Nazis and the Holocaust doesn't make you a Nazi, this is obvious.

I guarantee people have said worse things about Jews and the Holocaust during games of Cards Against Humanity. This at least, when reading the rules, requires some creativity.

To me the only reason this is a story at all is because it happened at a US College. The sort of place where a bubble of delusional expectations and understandings of what constitutes ethics and justice transform future Americans into pathetic, feeble worms that need counselling if someone dares to disagree with their entirely mainstream positions.

It wasn't at a college, it was a high school party.

 

[Username1198]

No lies detected.

But its the banquet beer

Banquets are classy

 

[MIMIC]

I'm sure when you play a drinking game, you make sure to follow the rules of a random website to the tee!

Not enough racism in that joke, Yellow card for the Jew team!

A game with a swastika but being incredibly racist isn't part of the game? OK.

And I guess the Confederate flag is just about "Southern pride," too.

 

[Jack Remington]

The game is shit, but police should not be "investigating" underage drinking. Profoundly stupid waste of resources.

 

[Slayven]

i'm pretty sure i read that half the kids there were jewish. this is more of a maturity, stupid kid kinda thing.

"Ponder told NJ.com she was disgusted when she saw the photo of her classmates, several of whom are actually Jewish, playing the game."



where is race involved here?

only posts i ever see from you are racism this or that.

Know how I know you don't read much gaf?

 

[Jarate]

A game with a swastika but being incredibly racist isn't part of the game? OK.

And I guess the Confederate flag is just about "Southern pride," too.

I wasn't there, so I can't tell you what was said or what was done. All we have are pictures which prove nothing other then the fact that they played the game

but good strawman there

 

[TomWaitsForNoMan]

edit: pointless

 

[Brakke]

I can't imagine someone actually getting offended by CAH

Then again I'm basically a laissez faire type of person when it comes to comedy and humor.

Is it really hard to imagine such a person, or is it actually just hard for you to sympathize with such a person?

In any case, we don't have to imagine. CAH have pulled / edited a bunch of cards from edition to edition, sometimes in response to criticism.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

Orwell was an anti-semite and a homophobe who despite writing a shitty novel about the dangers of censorship compiled a list of subversive persons for the British Ministry of Information, many of whom were on the list simply for being Jewish and/or gay.

I know it's a criminal offence among liberals to speak of the man in anything but the most glowing praise but maybe you should learn a bit more about him before snarking all over yourself in his defence

Are you honestly saying that 1984 is a shitty novel? It is a classic. Him being anti-semitic and homophobic does not lessen its value.

Do you realize that posts like yours used to be written as strawmen examples of how evil progressives want to censor things? Does that not bother you?

 

[Jenenser]

Is it really hard to imagine such a person, or is it actually just hard for you to sympathize with such a person?

In any case, we don't have to imagine. CAH have pulled / edited a bunch of cards from edition to edition, sometimes in response to criticism.

question still stands tough.

whats the difference?

and is everyone ignoring the fact that the jews can win? or would that also be racist?
i just can't wrap my head around it and no one gives a clear answer.

all i see is a bunch of morons playing a game in bad taste. (and they all probably have fun while doing so. including the jews that played the game and where on the naziteam or do you guys think that only jews would be in the jewteam and aryans in the naziteam?)

 

[Christopher]

It's increidubly bad taste and very juvienielle(hence their age) ...but what can you really do?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

And familiarity begets comfort.

I should probably start off by saying that I'm not 'caping' for anyone. I don't approve of, condone, enjoy, or have anything remotely close to a positive association with what these kids did. I'm just speaking as someone who went to a ~40% Jewish high school less than an hour away, whose last name is Silverman, who grew up in a neighborhood that was literally jokingly called 'Little Israel'. In the suburbs.

Neighborhoods don't have names in the suburbs outside of what the developer named it.

Comparing modern attitudes towards Jews in an area like this (an upper-middle class, liberal college area with a significant Jewish population) to the national scrutiny that Muslims suffer from right-wing extremists is inherently inaccurate. Being Jewish in a place like that is almost always like being Irish, or Italian, or of some other sort of ancestry that's identifiable, but virtually never subject to the kind of prejudice that people of color and Muslims suffer from regardless of location.

Jew jokes happen in these places. And where you have Jew jokes, you have Nazi jokes, and Hitler jokes. And it's fine among friends, because you're friends and in high school and stupid. It's incredibly hard to believe that what we're looking at here, whether it's borne out of ignorance or familiarity, is or ever will be anything close to the sort of hate that VP had for Muslims.

Did you read the post that was in response to? It wasn't about drawing a comparison between prejudice faced by Jews and prejudice faced by Muslims. Not at all.

The bigoted soldier who then realized how fucked up his attitude was is an example of someone who was bigoted enough to want to blow up a mosque (someone who is unequivocally filled with hate, the equivalent of a "committed anti-Semite," the term the user I was responding to used) who then learned about the culture he directed hate toward, and then realized how utterly wrong he was to the point he now is director of a Muslim organization.

The user I was talking to was trying to argue that someone on the "real racist," side of the spectrum won't change after being shown the error of their ways, whereas a late-teens teenager who does it out of "innocent ignorance," can still be saved. That if they both did something equally racist, it's somehow bad to call the late-teens teenager out for their actions, and doing the same for the actions of the "real racist," is somehow pointless.

I presented that example in an attempt to illustrate how both incidents are the result of ignorance, and that such hate only exists from not being able to empathize with a given person/group — the notion that "calling out an action for being antisemitic is harmful when the person responsible isn't a antisemitic/racist deep down," is ridiculous.

I completely agree that people are free to make whatever judgment they want. All I'm saying is that people who are immediately assuming the worst and advocating proportional consequences are almost certainly misjudging the situation. If anything, my basic point is that jumping to the worst possible scenario without any context is something that should be avoided. Context can at least enable us to open the door to less harmful possibilities and better understand what the action 'is', instead of what you assume it to be.

Direct your complaints of "advocating for proportional consequences to the worst possible assumption," to those who are doing that, please. Saying "that was wrong, and writing it off as 'kids will be kids,' is ridiculous and reductive," does not equal "these kids are sleeper agent Nazis — end their lives now."

Does that make sense to you now?

I'd argue that it absolutely makes it far less damaging. What if, instead of being taken in a high schooler's basement, this picture was taken at the newly founded Princeton chapter of the American Association of National Socialists? Hell, even if this was just a bunch of loosely associated skinheads American History X style, that'd scare the shit out of me. But it doesn't seem to be. It seems to be a bunch of regular ass high schoolers playing beer pong in someone's basement. The 'effects of said action' are dictated by its context, not divorced from it.

Which, in this case, seems to be a bunch of friends, some of whom are Jewish. Is it alright to say what you said to that stranger? Hell no. Props for putting it out there by the way, I think of stuff I've done like that and it's still like... paralyzing. But what if it was a close friend of yours and you two were comfortable poking fun at the wheelchair? That's great, but it'd still look like shit if someone recorded a joke you made about it and played it over the speakers at work.

The game is still joking about something that, in certain contexts and for certain people, will be really unfunny, insulting, and hurtful — everyone can agree something like this would be inappropriate in front of a Holocaust museum. When it gets out to the public (which stuff like this tends to do in the age of the internet), it is essentially the same as doing it in front of the world (including people directly affected by the subject matter, even generations removed). The act itself is still bad to the world at large in either context.

And speaking of context: describe a situation in which that beer pong game itself is somehow not shitty. If one of your teenage kids was in either scenario (the one you describe and the one that happened here) you would react differently to the different contexts, including your kid's intent. But that game will be shitty irrespective of either context, irrespective of intent. Say both groups gang-up on a Jewish kid and beat them for being a Jew — is it just "kids being kids," in the teenager situation since kids get rowdy every once in a while? Or is that action appalling in either? If it's functionally the same act, and that act is bad in one circumstance, it's bad in the other.

If anything, seeing some non-Nazi teens doing it should be more disconcerting considering they're just "regular people," who think it's okay, and at least tacitly support the notion that stuff like this is okay, which is probably the worst part — that some kids out there have to know they live in a country/world where this stuff goes on is a negative effect. Being at a party where someone will give them shit for not wanting to play some racist/antisemitic game, as if it isn't obviously the wrong thing to do, is a negative effect. Them having to come to grips with the reality that too many people will defend every antisemitic/racist/sexist to the death is a negative effect of this getting out. If those effects are non-issues to you, then that'd be helpful to know.

And if my shitty joke that I know was bad was heard over the intercom, it would look like shit. You're absolutely right about that. To my hypothetical self in that situation, I would say "tough shit, man."

It's increidubly bad taste and very juvienielle(hence their age) ...but what can you really do?

Suspend them, ground them, let them know it's not okay.

 

[Brakke]

question still stands tough.

whats the difference?

But like why did this question stand up in the first place. What hypocrisy are we exposing by asking it? Who is standing tall for the idea that there is a difference?

 

[Solid SOAP]

It's increidubly bad taste and very juvienielle(hence their age) ...but what can you really do?

Throw the fuckers in jail!

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Throw the fuckers in jail!

...is what some people think is being bandied around.

 

[Principate]

The majority of Trump people I see online and offline never say shit about Obama or any other ethnic group other than the Republican's favorite dog whistle, "Illegals". Their main problem is, hands down, PC culture. It's this kind of stuff. It's that a bunch of high school kids doing stupid shit at a private party at their house are now dragged out in front of the country for no reason. The only offensive thing about this drinking game is the rules stipulating saying racist shit. Which can easily be avoided by just not doing it.

Some of you even think these high school kids should get penalties in their college admission. For this? Do you not see why people might get a little angry over that mentality?

Codeword, you realise you just destroyed your own argument. Why do you think they dislike brown skinned illegals and an who do you think they chose to prey on during the banning on of muslims. Like I said incredibly naïve.

 

[old manatee]

Throw the fuckers in jail!

They broke the law, so that would be fair.

I think that juvenile detention would be sufficient enough to teach them a lesson, though I know bishop would argue that such a weak stance on the issue would make me a caper for ignorance.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

They broke the law, so that would be fair.

I think that juvenile detention would be sufficient enough to teach them a lesson, though I know bishop would argue that such a weak stance on the issue would make me a caper for ignorance.

Actually they didn't break any laws. Private home consumption of alcohol by minors is legal in NJ.

Let me tell you who's really gonna get heat over this: Jamaica Ponder. The girl who decided to take these pictures of a private house party and report them to her school administration and then, of course, write a nice little blog post about it.
CBS is not only naive enough to mention her name, they even link the blog post in question.

The article says she's lost a lot of friends already so I guess it's already happening.

 

[SmackDaddy]

This chick is a fucking narc.

And this is a nonissue. Why are people looking to ruin lives over this?

Clearly because it is putting the jews and Nazis are on even ground, ready to battle.

 

[MIMIC]

I wasn't there, so I can't tell you what was said or what was done. All we have are pictures which prove nothing other then the fact that they played the game

but good strawman there

I'm really not interested in "proving" anything. Most people can see racist imagery without needing a transcript of the party to know what was probably going on.

But you're right: the game has racist rules, has racist imagery, but we should wait to see if anything racist is actually said. No need to jump to conclusions.

 

[TomWaitsForNoMan]

Are you honestly saying that 1984 is a shitty novel? It is a classic. Him being anti-semitic and homophobic does not lessen its value.

Do you realize that posts like yours used to be written as strawmen examples of how evil progressives want to censor things? Does that not bother you?

Yes, I am honestly saying that. It's full of leaden prose and paper thin characterisation, it's a novel that drips with hatred for the working class (viz. his description of the proles and how they actually act, not merely characters' descriptions of them), that sets up a strawman of "authoritarianism" that's so broad as to be meaningless, that fails to examine any actual historical circumstances within which "authoritarian" regimes may come to exist, that's a barely concealed pro-Trotsky pamphlet, that ultimately is a children's fairytale which has come to be regarded as a well thought out examination of totalitarianism for no other reason than it flatters the sensibilities of the Anglo-American liberal intelligentsia. Isaac Asimov's review sums up my thoughts quite nicely http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/pipermail/marxism/2002-November/075171.html Furthermore even if you disregard his bigotry, the fact that he was perfectly willing to himself act as a "patriot" heroically rooting out subversive elements should tell you about his deep commitment to the values of that novel.

And frankly I don't give a damn if other people use my posts as a strawman, I'm not a "progressive" and I'm not necessarily against censorship provided it's done in the right way for the right reason, much as most people aren't against financial penalties or confinement or even aerial bombardment in the right circumstances.

 

[Jenenser]

But like why did this question stand up in the first place. What hypocrisy are we exposing by asking it? Who is standing tall for the idea that there is a difference?

because i asked it and cards against humanity is a well established game by now.

im not exposing hypocrisy, i wanna know why this is getting malicious context and the other game is well established.

everyone that played card against humanity and had fun while playing it but condems a few kids because of a stiupid drinkinggame.

is it that unfair to ask? or why are you answering my question with more questions?

edit: well, your probably right, i do wanna expose the hypocrisy.

 

[Jarate]

I'm really not interested in "proving" anything. Most people can see racist imagery without needing a transcript of the party to know what was probably going on.

But you're right: the game has racist rules, has racist imagery, but we should wait to see if anything racist is actually said. No need to jump to conclusions.

or maybe we shouldnt judge children when we have literally practically no evidence of what's going on beyond photos. But please, are you going to sit here and imply an internet social justice mob is better suited at punishment then the parents and school system that will most likely punish them? Is what they did most likely bad, probably. Am I going to sit here and shit on them without knowing things beyond a single picture. No, and neither should anyone else

 

[Spring-Loaded]

But please, are you going to sit here and imply an internet social justice mob is better suited at punishment then the parents and school system that will most likely punish them?

Who the fuck is saying this


is it just one or two people? Can you just quote them? or quote who you think is saying this?

And no need to do it for me, but for posterity. I probably won't see that happen.

 

[Solid SOAP]

I'm really not interested in "proving" anything. Most people can see racist imagery without needing a transcript of the party to know what was probably going on.

But you're right: the game has racist rules, has racist imagery, but we should wait to see if anything racist is actually said. No need to jump to conclusions.

Was it proven they were playing by all the rules of the game? Including the racist spouting?

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

Yes, I am honestly saying that. It's full of leaden prose and paper thin characterisation, it's a novel that drips with hatred for the working class (viz. his description of the proles and how they actually act, not merely characters' descriptions of them), that sets up a strawman of "authoritarianism" that's so broad as to be meaningless, that fails to examine any actual historical circumstances within which "authoritarian" regimes may come to exist, that's a barely concealed pro-Trotsky pamphlet, that ultimately is a children's fairytale which has come to be regarded as a well thought out examination of totalitarianism for no other reason than it flatters the sensibilities of the Anglo-American liberal intelligentsia. Isaac Asimov's review sums up my thoughts quite nicely http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/pipermail/marxism/2002-November/075171.html Furthermore even if you disregard his bigotry, the fact that he was perfectly willing to himself act as a "patriot" heroically rooting out subversive elements should tell you about his deep commitment to the values of that novel.

And frankly I don't give a damn if other people use my posts as a strawman, I'm not a "progressive" and I'm not necessarily against censorship provided it's done in the right way for the right reason, much as most people aren't against financial penalties or confinement or even aerial bombardment in the right circumstances.

So you're some kind of authoritarianism apologist, huh? Figures.

 

[Jarate]

Who the fuck is saying this


is it just one or two people? Can you just quote them? or quote who you think is saying this?

And no need to do it for me, but for posterity. I probably won't see that happen.

High school kids making nazi jokes while drunk is a nonstory, but let's see what we can get out of this.

I hope we can put some names to the faces so it makes college admissions a lot trickier.

literally on the first page

 

[Skellig Gra]

Kids do stupid shit. Hopefully they learn from this.

 

[Christopher]

They broke the law, so that would be fair.

I think that juvenile detention would be sufficient enough to teach them a lesson, though I know bishop would argue that such a weak stance on the issue would make me a caper for ignorance.

What law did they break exactly?