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[psynergylover]

You basically answered your own post; the game is marketed to children. Every pokemon game is:

1) Chose a starter
2) Battle your rival(s)
3) Catch pokemon
4) Earn Badges
5) Stop evil pokemon organisation then battle legendary pokemon
6) Beat the Elite Four


All of us older people know this and still buy at least one copy of every iteration. If you think they're suddenly gonna change what has worked for 20 years then I think the so called idiot here might be you.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

the least they can do is stop forcing their characters on you at every moment. instead of having three rivals that constantly stop and remind you at every other route of how great bonding with pokemon is, maybe just shorten it down to one? the plot of XY wouldn't have been damaged had calem/serena been the only rival.

The idea of XY rivals was showing the different paths people in the Pokemon universe could take; perfectly appropriate for this generation of the game.

 

[Mr-Joker]

I thought 5 was pretty lackluster. I thought it had a decent premise that Pokemon are basically slaves, but the people who claim that also use Pokemon as "slaves," so the story made no sense at all.

Because Team Plasma and N were misled and the whole "using Pokémon to battle" was a front for Ghetsis true plan.

Plus only N stayed true to the mission and even acknowledge that he was using Pokémon to fight and wonder if his ideal was correct, which played into the whole Truth Vs Ideal theme that Gen 5 had.

I disagree with the Gen 4 thing. I thought that story was extremely bleh. I have *not* played any Gen 5 games though. Only Gen I haven't played.

So, my bad. ;u;

Gen 4 went all in with Sinnoh folklore and explored the creation of the Pokémon universe.

Were the old games hard?

Somewhat, it largely depends on your play style and what Pokémon you have on your team.

But the older game did provide more of a challenge compare to X and Y.

 

[Kowashitai]

That's why you should switch to the SMT series. It's like Pokemon for adults.

The writing in SMTIV is terrible though. Not Pokemon bad, but Walter and Jonathan are far from well written characters.

 

[Crocodile]

If you want to call the writing unengaging I think that's totally fair but "insipid" is not even remotely accurate. None of the examples you've presented are condescending and comparing the writing in TV shows/movies with games will always be somewhat problematic due to the differences in the media. The writing in Pokemon could be better but I think you might have a bit of a chip on your shoulder if it bothers you as much as it seems to bother you per this topic

 

[Chastten]

Never even knew people cared about the writing in Pokemon. I basically just keep pressing A until the fighting starts.

Anyways, Pokémon is purely a children's game, so it needs to be adjusted to that. The examples you mentioned are mostly marketed as family-movies, for children and adults alike. Kids don't go to the movies alone, but they do play games alone. That's why movies often have some stuff in them to make em enjoyable for adults. Hell, that's why K3 (a Flemish girl band aimed at young children) was told to wear short skirts during concerts, so the dads had something to enjoy as well.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

This is why Black/White was a step in the right direction and X/Y was a step backward.

I feel like a strong story/writing could really help breathe life into an otherwise extremely formulaic series. Not that it's dying, but I know the stale stories are a huge minus for some (including myself) and it gets extra tiring game after game.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

The writing issue isn't a consistent problem for the series. The plots may be nothing to write home about, but the writing is usually perfectly adequate for what it's going for. Ever since DP (and arguably even before) characters are fairly well defined, and while the evil teams' plans may not make much sense or actually have depth, it shows GF is trying. XY just sucked hard on that front, taking a noticeable step back in the writing, characters, evil team, and just about everything. And even then the post-game still had some good stuff. ORAS was a return to form, massively improving on what RS had before. Nothing Oscar worthy, but good enough for a kids JRPG.

You're right, it's not a consistent issue. I had few problems with the writing throughout X/Y (although there's still a lot of shit there, like any time you step into a 'restaurant' or specialized shop, the kitschy ass intro, the entire Team Flare storyline, etc.) but it seems that damn near every line of dialogue that was changed between RSE and the remakes (outside of Sea Mauville and Episode Delta) were just phoned in.

 

[Leafhopper]

I think the writing isn't really that bad.

Who the hell plays Pokemon for the writing?

The people that still cling on to the fact that the single player campaign matters outside of 1 playthrough. Even though Pokemon, since it's start, encouraged kids to play the games with others.

I'm not so sure Pokemon's writing is that dumb. What's dumb is how some of these stories shoehorn the gym-and-badge scenario into the stories, which is probably the biggest factor as to why they feel so run down and stupid.

Now that I agree with.

 

[Menitta]

You're right, it's not a consistent issue. I had few problems with the writing throughout X/Y but it seems that damn near every line of dialogue that was changed between RSE and the remakes (outside of Sea Mauville and Episode Delta) were just phoned in.

Removing the Battle Frontier is a crime. If they do that with the DP remakes, I'm gonna be pissed.

 

[Jinketsu]

I'm not so sure Pokemon's writing is that dumb. What's dumb is how some of these stories shoehorn the gym-and-badge scenario into the stories, which is probably the biggest factor as to why they feel so run down and stupid.

Seriously, Black2/White2 and X/Y could probably have had a better story to follow if not for the (in my opinion) overused gyms and badges. It's an artificial level and progression cap at this point (and not even so, really) that trying to be a Pokemon Master by way of beating gym leaders just feels so misplaced considering the other more important shit you wind up doing in the later games.

 

[Balb]

Because Team Plasma and N were misled and the whole "using Pokémon to battle" was a front for Ghetsis true plan.

Plus only N stayed true to the mission and even acknowledge that he was using Pokémon to fight and wonder if his ideal was correct, which played into the whole Truth Vs Ideal theme that Gen 5 had.

I'm going to replay B/W before S/M comes out, and I'll have to reassess the story. I just remember rolling my eyes at the time at the blatant hypocrisy, but if that's baked into the plot then I'd feel differently.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

I'm going to replay B/W before S/M comes out, and I'll have to reassess the story. I just remember rolling my eyes at the time at the blatant hypocrisy, but if that's baked into the plot then I'd feel differently.

If their hypocrisy wasn't evident enough in the things they said during B/W, it turns out that the only active Plasma members left in Black and White 2 are openly Pokemon thieves that dress darker and more thuggishly.

 

[Diffense]

I wasn't offended by the writing. Is something wrong with me?

 

[Raonak]

There are tons of people who watched/played pokemon when they were kids, and now are adults. As one of these people, playing pokemon has become a chore because it's the exact same thing everytime.
It's more uninspired than the yearly COD games at this point.

I don't understand why TPC doesn't make more spinoffs targetted at different demographics. A more adult oriented pokemon game that completely ditches the standard forumar would be amazing.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

I'm willing to bet Game Freak would rather not be burdened with the reality of an aging fanbase, and it's in their best interest to target new (young) fans.

then why does charizard get so much special treatment?

 

[LOLDSFAN]

Insipid? Is that a Pokemon?

Yes.

 

[Neoleo2143]

I'm going to replay B/W before S/M comes out, and I'll have to reassess the story. I just remember rolling my eyes at the time at the blatant hypocrisy, but if that's baked into the plot then I'd feel differently.

N releases every single team he had in B/W. It's actually an interesting bit of showing rather than telling. A flawed ideal but a ideal nonetheless.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

You basically answered your own post; the game is marketed to children. Every pokemon game is:

1) Chose a starter
2) Battle your rival(s)
3) Catch pokemon
4) Earn Badges
5) Stop evil pokemon organisation then battle legendary pokemon
6) Beat the Elite Four


All of us older people know this and still buy at least one copy of every iteration. If you think they're suddenly gonna change what has worked for 20 years then I think the so called idiot here might be you.

I really do feel like Pokemon dialogue has changed, and has become markedly more stilted and alien over the last couple of gens. And that's not to say there wasn't plenty of weirdness in Gen 4 games and before, but the weirdness feels so pervasive in Gen 6, it's everywhere.

Insipid? Is that a Pokemon?

yea

 

[MouldyK]

Name me a Children's Game with Deep Plot and Lore.


Cuz there is a big difference between Films, Books and Games as many have said.

 

[CaviarMeths]

I don't think adult Pokemon fans will ever realize that the games aren't made for them. Between story complaints and begging for a HD console MMO with all regions, the L will be forever carried. Even when I was 9 and RB first came out in NA, I didn't give two fucks about the story. I just wanted to be the very best.

 

[Exterminieren]

Dunno man, the last game I played was X and Y and that had new typings that I didn't have memorized. After 2 or 3 dungeons I realized I had to go out of my way to handicap myself to not be oppressively stronger than all the trainers I ran in to due to the broken XP share item, at that point I was pretty much set with the series.

The game doesn't need to be THAT easy.

You should probably have turned the EXP Share off.

 

[Neoleo2143]

Name me a Children's Game with Deep Plot and Lore.


Cuz there is a big difference between Films, Books and Games as many have said.

I would actually put Chrono Trigger into the 10 year old's category. I would also add that Children are exposed to quite a lot of cultural Mythology growing up, which is often extremely violent (And sometimes not, but the violence parts are definitely told to kids).

You should probably have turned the EXP Share off.

This isn't the solution. I question why they simply didn't just go back to B/W's level curve in general. It was decently balanced.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

I don't think adult Pokemon fans will ever realize that the games aren't made for them. Between story complaints and begging for a HD console MMO with all regions, the L will be forever carried. Even when I was 9 and RB first came out in NA, I didn't give two fucks about the story. I just wanted to be the very best.

Yeah, that's not a false equivalency at all
and I don't think there's anything wrong with expecting more out of this series' writing despite that it's not made explicitly for adults.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I would actually put Chrono Trigger into the 10 year old's category. I would also add that Children are exposed to quite a lot of cultural Mythology growing up, which is often extremely violent (And sometimes not, but the violence parts are definitely told to kids).

Chrono trigger seems more aimed at teenagers to me. And the actual plot and writing of chrono trigger is incredibly simple as well for that matter

 

[Gator86]

I'm ready for the Zack Snyder dark and gritty Pokemon reboot.

"WHY DID YOU SAY 'SQUIRTLE' WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?"

On topic: I never remember the writing now being trash. Is there a lot of data out there on the demos for the Pokémon games? As people have mentioned, they've been going for decades now, so I imagine there's a ton of older people playing too. The stories/writing doesn't have to be complete garbage just because some kids might also be playing.

 

[Vital Tundra]

I don't expect good writing, but the series really needs to not treat children as idiots, which they do now.

 

[Acerac]

You should probably have turned the EXP Share off.

Yeah I could certainly handicap myself to continue to enjoy the game. Alternatively, I could have ran with only one pokemon at a time, never healed, or done one of the trillion challenge runs people have thought up on the internet.

I just wanted to play the game as it was offered to me though? I guess that's my problem, a lot of people enjoy cripple yourself pokemon, it just never seemed enticing to me.

If it was a built in game mode that I didn't have to go out of my way to think about I'd prolly be far more receptive.

 

[kaioshade]

I really do feel like Pokemon dialogue has changed, and has become markedly more stilted and alien over the last couple of gens. And that's not to say there wasn't plenty of weirdness in Gen 4 games and before, but the weirdness feels so pervasive in Gen 6, it's everywhere.
]

Now THIS i can agree with. And i think that was a result of trying to do more involved storylines in the games.

 

[MouldyK]

I would actually put Chrono Trigger into the 10 year old's category. I would also add that Children are exposed to quite a lot of cultural Mythology growing up, which is often extremely violent (And sometimes not, but the violence parts are definitely told to kids).

I meant for the 3-10 Category, which Pokemon seems to also aim for.

 

[psynergylover]

I really do feel like Pokemon dialogue has changed, and has become markedly more stilted and alien over the last couple of gens. And that's not to say there wasn't plenty of weirdness in Gen 4 games and before, but the weirdness feels so pervasive in Gen 6, it's everywhere.



yea

Maybe has I certainly can't say as pokemon has never been known for it's dialogue(Hopefully you can post those pics when you get the chance)

 

[Dark Ninja]

Pokemon's problem is it's been 20 years and I still can't have more than 1 save file on a cartridge. These damn cartridges can't hold more than one save.

 

[VendettaRed07]

I agree with OP.

I feel like as of late these games have gotten sooo overly slow/chibi anime. Like they've become one of those pointless offseason OVAs or something. Everything .. the world, the characters, feels so sterile and vapid

Black and White was actually a great step forward for the series, but instead of building on that, they backpedaled immensely. It's been 6 years since I think a pokemon game even tried to push the series narrative forward in any interesting ways.

Saying its just for kids isn't an excuse. The market for pokemon is obviously larger than just seven year olds.. and gamefreak could be doing a significantly better job at satisfying all different age groups. The best kids shows do this.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Yeah I could certainly handicap myself to continue to enjoy the game. Alternatively, I could have ran with only one pokemon at a time, never healed, or done one of the trillion challenge runs people have thought up on the internet.

I just wanted to play the game as it was offered to me though? I guess that's my problem, a lot of people enjoy cripple yourself pokemon, it just never seemed enticing to me.

If it was a built in game mode that I didn't have to go out of my way to think about I'd prolly be far more receptive.

I never understood why people insist on doing things like Nuzlocke, those kinds of more arbitrary self-handicaps, when the game mechanics of newer Pokemon games practically BEG you to just

catch shitloads of Pokemon
you know like the game tells you to do right at the beginning when you get your pokemon encyclopedia to document said shitloads of pokemon
and then train more than six of them.

The level curve balances out pretty well with EXP Share on when you capture and train every single Pokemon that interests you instead of just filling your party and saying that's that.

 

[Neoleo2143]

I meant for the 3-10 Category, which Pokemon seems to also aim for.

Yokai Watch isn't half bad, LBX/Danball Senki is kinda insane. Quite a few Level 5 stuff is approachable by Children and propped up by a decent narrative arc. Not all of them all like this however.

That being said, when appealing to Children, it's more than possible to make interesting themes and have them get it while remaining interesting to Adults. I refer once again to my mythology example.

Edit: I think Pokemon ought to try a Slice of Life route with the player character travelling to multiple cities that all have different stories to tell. I feel that if every city had a Looker Sidequest equivalent, I think that would solve the issue. It would still preserve the journey aspects and they could excersize more creativity. I can't help but feel that Sea Mauville implies that writers of Pokemon games themselves feel stifled by the formula.

 

[MrBadger]

I don't mind the writing itself. It's cute and simple but gets the job done. It'd be nice to have a bit more complexity in the story structure, though

I'm ready for the Zack Snyder dark and gritty Pokemon reboot.

"WHY DID YOU SAY 'SQUIRTLE' WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?"

In which Red defeats Giovanni because they both picked the same starter

 

[Exterminieren]

Yeah I could certainly handicap myself to continue to enjoy the game. Alternatively, I could have ran with only one pokemon at a time, never healed, or done one of the trillion challenge runs people have thought up on the internet.

I just wanted to play the game as it was offered to me though? I guess that's my problem, a lot of people enjoy cripple yourself pokemon, it just never seemed enticing to me.

If it was a built in game mode that I didn't have to go out of my way to think about I'd prolly be far more receptive.

It's not handicapping yourself, it's choosing whether or not to use an option.

You can't equate a Nuzlocke run to simply not using an item you're offered.

 

[Onivulk]

If anything Pokémon needs LESS writing regardless of the quality. The beginning of each of these games is such a chore. Just give me my combat animal and let me play your game.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Now THIS i can agree with. And i think that was a result of trying to do more involved storylines in the games.

It really kills me every time they try to portray an accented speech pattern through text in these games. Their translators are not up to the fuckin task, lmao. The only voice I can imagine for that woman is that of Frank's hooker wife from Always Sunny lol

Remember this guy? The joke actually works in Japanese (gold balls =...balls), but instead of actually localizing the joke, nah, we'll just translate it literally. That shit doesn't sound insane at all!

 

[CassSept]

I have no idea why Gen V's story is brought up as an example for Gen V's superiority. They tried, sure, and it's more engaging and complex than others in the series, that's true, but neither of these is necessarily a good thing. The writing is just stupendously wrong. What is the point of reference when you say Gen V's story was good? If it's other Pokemon games, sure. If it's 90% of other media out there, christ no.

 

[Jotamide]

While I love the gameplay and especially the music, everything else about Pokémon is utterly mediocre. It's like the franchise embodies Nintendo as a whole in a single package.

 

[Balb]

Pokemon's problem is it's been 20 years and I still can't have more than 1 save file on a cartridge. These damn cartridges can't hold more than one save.

$40 gets you another save slot, baby.

 

[Tunavi]

The game is marketed at children?

Didn't even read the op

 

[kaioshade]

Didn't even read the op

Didnt even read my other replies.

 

[Zelias]

Not going to praise the writing, but it doesn't bother me that much (though the backpedalling on story from Black/White to XY was... annoying). It's certainly not Pokemon's #1 problem, lol.

 

[Wvrs]

It's for children, really. Pokemon Red helped me learn to read when I was very small; it's a game that should be accessible to all.

 

[nintendoman58]

Hey, you bought the new Pokemon game? That means you're fucking stupid.

No, that's not my opinion. That's Game Freak's opinion of you. You bought Pokemon, so you must be a goddamn dunce, and so for the next hundred or so hours our game's dialogue is going to talk waaaay the fuck down to you, while making as little sense as humanly possible. There will not be a single human character in our game who talks like a human. They'll all talk like Steve from Blues Clues just dropped shitloads of LSD into his eye and fell into a ball pit full of Pokemon plushies.

I am not exaggerating. As an adult, this is what playing Pokemon feels like. And I get it, I totally get it. Before you shitpost, I know that Pokemon is a children's game. Just like Adventure Time and Regular Show are children's TV shows. Just like the Lego Movie and Up and Toy Story 3 are children's movies. Why do I bring those properties up? Because they prove that you CAN write dialogue and scenarios for children that aren't depressingly stupid and condescending, shit that doesn't assume the intellect of the viewer is at perfect zero. You can entertain children without making it clear to them that you think they're dumb as shit. That's a thing! But not in Game Freak's world.

edit: Whoa, I hit the Post Thread button WAY too prematurely by accident. Fuck. I'm poring through LPs for examples right now, I do plan on finishing this post, lmao.

This is you being invited to your first contest. This is you visiting a restaurant (the trainer dialogue is what gets me, lol. "The world of food is really tough...") This is you beating your rival. (which in particular isn't as bad as I remembered it being tbh) but this all takes place in a single city in the game, and is representative of the level of writing on show here. This writing isn't just simple, it comes off like it was literally written by crazy people at times. It's not necessarily a problem that the writing is simple, but most of the time it comes off as just plain random and nonsensical, and not really in a cute or funny way, more like in a poor translation sort of way.

Wow.

What a bitter, condescending post about a game series that was marketed for children since its inception.

What an angry, demanding view that the writing of Pokemon games absolutely needs to have similar writing talents as those behind Regular Show, Adventure Time, and Toy Story 3. All of which are NOT video games.

What utterly pathetic examples you've given, one of which is basically just a one-liner to get the actual BATTLE part of the POKEMON RPG game going.

Honestly, I'm wondering if you set this entire thread up to be some kind of bait for responses like these to be thrown at you. But fine, I'll humor you.

First off, some of the examples you listed are nothing but gameplay aspects used to introduce new mechanics or lead into or out of minor battles. Trainers in the Battle Frontier from Gen III/IV usually say nonsensical and random things. But you know what? So what? Why do you care so much of something so minor when what you SHOULD be caring about it is the battle that's about to take place?

Second, you're completely ignoring literally every other aspect of the writing in the other areas. Remember Cyrus' entire character from Platinum regarding his wish for a new universe free of strife? How about N from Black/White regarding Pokemon liberation? How about AZ in X and Y and the weapon that literally killed Pokemon. I'm not saying that the writing of the Pokemon series is some masterwork, absolutely not, far from it in fact. It's just that you're acting like every line of dialogue in the game is on-par with Dora The Explorer levels of writing or something like that, ignoring all the characters Game Freak made to have their own personalities and flaws that both children AND adults can enjoy.

Third, your argument that Game Freak thinks we're all stupid people who enjoy being talked down to because of the writing is complete garbage. You know why I play Pokemon? I play to build a team of six cute little creatures and watch them grow into big fearsome creatures as I go on my journey. I play to understand the meta-game and play competitively with friends. I play for that feeling of adventure as I travel across all the dangerous parts of the region. All of which are barely, if at all, affected by the quality of the writing. How am I stupid in that regard?!?

You clearly are not a fan of Pokemon as an adult. And that's fine. Maybe you liked it once and don't anymore. Sure, move on then. You know what's not fine? Talking down to the rest of us like we're all terrible pathetic individuals for enjoying a primarily multiplayer-focused RPG series for children that has sub-par writing meant for children in areas that don't even really matter in the long run.

 

[Neoleo2143]

I have no idea why Gen V's story is brought up as an example for Gen V's superiority. They tried, sure, and it's more engaging and complex than others in the series, that's true, but neither of these is necessarily a good thing. The writing is just stupendously wrong. What is the point of reference when you say Gen V's story was good? If it's other Pokemon games, sure. If it's 90% of other media out there, christ no.

This is a poor argument, examples please.

Snip.

Wow, um. That's long. I ask you would you say Danball Senki would appeal to the OP? You seem to be the AnimeGAF promoter of that series.

 

[Acerac]

It's not handicapping yourself, it's choosing whether or not to use an option.

You can't equate a Nuzlocke run to simply not using an item you're offered.

How is choosing not to use an absurdly beneficial item not handicapping yourself? Do you know what the word means? It means to make things more difficult.

Sure I can! Either is choosing to ignore game elements as they were designed to try to add difficulty to the laughably easy campaign. It's really not that hard to equate the two, it's just a matter of how extreme a measure you need to take.

I don't know why they stopped including hard mode. I know it was only a one time inclusion but bumping up enemy trainer levels and AI can't be that difficult of a switch to flick, can it?

Didnt even read my other replies.

It's typically more expected to read the OP than the entire thread.

 

[woopWOOP]

tbh it was so damn awful in X&Y that I dropped it very soon after the first gym. Nearly every single npc line was how thing x was great! Because yay Pokemon!

The old games had plenty of lines like that too, but it's like they went in overdrive for X&Y. The remakes changed some lines into some weird positive happy Pokemon shit too so I guess this is what the English translations are going for nowadays

Hopefully Sun & Moon will be better. Atleast so far it seems it's just you, island friend and rival trainer going on adventures and no dumb crew of dipshit friends that can't shut the fuck up