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[WoolyNinja]

LOD also improved ?

Spoiler

entire building missing in "before" pic

Edit, Or is that the building you take down during that mission ?

Before

After

Pretty sure its a story reason that building isn't there anymore (unless I'm thinking of the wrong building).

 

[Chabbles]

Pretty sure its a story reason that building isn't there anymore (unless I'm thinking of the wrong building).

Well the screen was taken in top left of map, looking in the direction of the white arrow

 

[anothertech]

It's looking more and more like a dev oversight than anything else.

If it was only happening on very graphics heavy games that push the hardware to its limits, maybe red flags would go off, but it's mostly last gen ports.

Strider? The swan? It was patched in dying light recently. And now again in DMC.

Only logical place to look is at the devs porting the games.

 

[c0de]

It's looking more and more like a dev oversight than anything else.

If it was only happening on very graphics heavy games that push the hardware to its limits, maybe red flags would go off, but it's mostly last gen ports.

Strider? The swan? It was patched in dying light recently. And now again in DMC.

Only logical place to look is at the devs porting the games.

DMC is patched now?

 

[dan2026]

DMC is patched now?

I really doubt it. But I'd love to be wrong.

 

[HooYaH]

It's looking more and more like a dev oversight than anything else.

If it was only happening on very graphics heavy games that push the hardware to its limits, maybe red flags would go off, but it's mostly last gen ports.

Strider? The swan? It was patched in dying light recently. And now again in DMC.

Only logical place to look is at the devs porting the games.

Destiny also has some poor AF.

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

To me when Devs port over games using the GNMX API to make the DX11 ports work with minor optimisation it isn't transferring over the AF instructions. Or AF needs to be configured using the GNM API manually and this isn't being done.

The thing that really bugs me though is that this console was "designed by developers, for developers" and "Ease of development" y'know the big PR that Sony was pushing at launch and there are issues with AF?

PS4 should be pushing 8xAF at a minimum. Anything less than that is a failure imho.

Ideally 16xAF like Cory said is possible on Twitter, should be the standard.

 

[-griffy-]

Destiny also has some poor AF.

But it's the same on both platforms, so it doesn't fit in with the other games being discussed.

Feels like this thread is on an endless loop at this point. At least the Dying Light patch injected a new thing into it.

 

[IndoAssassin]

But it's the same on both platforms, so it doesn't fit in with the other games being discussed.

Feels like this thread is on an endless loop at this point. At least the Dying Light patch injected a new thing into it.

Always Ends up that way when console warriors shit up a thread.

 

[Tetranet]

It's looking more and more like a dev oversight than anything else.

If it was only happening on very graphics heavy games that push the hardware to its limits, maybe red flags would go off, but it's mostly last gen ports.

Strider? The swan? It was patched in dying light recently. And now again in DMC.

Only logical place to look is at the devs porting the games.

I saw some The Order 1886 screens that had it too. Those devs were obsessing over graphical fidelity, I don't think they could have overlooked the basics.

 

[xenorevlis]

I saw some The Order 1886 screens that had it too. Those devs were obsessing over graphical fidelity, I don't think they could have overlooked the basics.

While people love to claim AF is free, it is not. Some more complicated things are going on than ever before in game engines, both during initial frame build and many post operations before it is sent out. Sometimes a lower AF setting may be required in a section for some strange reason, or some proper DOF approximations will blur things in a short distance and make it look like AF is missing.

In the case of Dying Light - I don't have the game to test, but I think the example being used to claim it is only 4X or worse is silly, because the games are not the same, the resolution is not the same, and so on.

 

[AgentP]

I saw some The Order 1886 screens that had it too. Those devs were obsessing over graphical fidelity, I don't think they could have overlooked the basics.

Saw what? It has AF, stop moving the goal posts. This is turning into concern trolling and console war BS more than anyone trying to investigate something.

 

[MikeHaggar]

interesting to finally see a dev patch a game to add/improve af. would appear in the case of dying light that it wasn't off/low for performance reasons at all. really strange...

 

[dr_rus]

To me when Devs port over games using the GNMX API to make the DX11 ports work with minor optimisation it isn't transferring over the AF instructions. Or AF needs to be configured using the GNM API manually and this isn't being done.

The thing that really bugs me though is that this console was "designed by developers, for developers" and "Ease of development" y'know the big PR that Sony was pushing at launch and there are issues with AF?

PS4 should be pushing 8xAF at a minimum. Anything less than that is a failure imho.

Ideally 16xAF like Cory said is possible on Twitter, should be the standard.

Yeah, there is literally no difference between 8x and 16x performance wise so I don't know from where these ideas are coming from. It's either no AF or 16x, everything in between is rather pointless.

 

[omonimo]

But it's the same on both platforms, so it doesn't fit in with the other games being discussed.

Feels like this thread is on an endless loop at this point. At least the Dying Light patch injected a new thing into it.

It was pretty clear from the beginning it wasn't an hardware issue but more something about the SDK. Xbone hasn't nothing of real advantageous to handle better AF. Maybe with a real more stronger CPU compared ps4, xbone could have had a sort of, but it's pratically the same hardware with inferior gpu and memory setup, these differences are more in favour of the ps4 than the xbone CPU advantages.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

That's enough for you or you need of more prove?


It seems clearly an SDK issue at this point. Jeez tons of posts about 'I don't believe to who said otherwise', 'but you can't prove the contrary' even with tons of explanations how weird are your strange tech convinctions and et voila with a simple patch AF can be improved XD . Even x360 had unified ram never remembered strange AF issue like the ps4.

It does seem like a SDK/tool issue at this point. It's likely that AF is not defaulted to an optimal setting or that trilinear filtering is on by default. It may also not be straightforward to implement with the SDK/tools provided.

Sony has consistently been lacking in the SDK/tools development department relative to Microsoft (at least historically). I think they have more of a laissez-faire (less hand holding) type approach.

 

[wowzors]

I really doubt it. But I'd love to be wrong.

No it has not been fixed/acknowledged. Don't hold your breath.

 

[Dazza]

So does anyone know someone who worked on dying light? They would be the ones to ask about the issue since they fixed it.

Twitter would be a good place to ask, wasn't one of the websites trying to get down to the bottom of this?

It does seem like a SDK/tool issue at this point. It's likely that AF is not defaulted to an optimal setting or that trilinear filtering is on by default. It may also not be straightforward to implement with the SDK/tools provided.

That's what it sounds like it is to me too, right from the start

I think they have more of a laissez-faire (less hand holding) type approach

This is also true, alot of developers have said this about the differences between Sony and MS, less mandates and checklists with Sony.


I wonder if DF will updated their faceoff? If they don't they are surely guilty of the bias that some accuse them of

 

[pixlexic]

interesting to finally see a dev patch a game to add/improve af. would appear in the case of dying light that it wasn't off/low for performance reasons at all. really strange...

That may not be true. it could have been that better optimization allowed for AF in the patch. We don't know.

that's why I would love for someone who worked on dying light patch to come put and say something.

 

[Andronicus]

I saw some The Order 1886 screens that had it too. Those devs were obsessing over graphical fidelity, I don't think they could have overlooked the basics.

you reaching for the stars right now

 

[Fury451]

DMC is patched now?

I believe it was meant to mean "And now DMC has the problem too", not to signify that it was patched. Placement of it in the sentence caused misinterpretation.

 

[lynux3]

It's an interesting issue and an annoying one for anyone who buys these games on their PS4. Reading through this thread and the (allegedly) more knowledgeable folks at B3D, there appears to be some evidence regarding how developers port code from various game engines that causes the AF issue. As far as I know, Faf is a pretty respectable guy, so I take his word over more than others. There was also some investigation as to how APUs treat AF and the impact it takes, and the conclusion seems to be a bug and/or improper method used in the how it's all ported over.

It looks like some companies are taking a step to correct it or have forgotten about it completely and are moving on. Either way, super annoying issue and maybe Sony needs to update their documentation on how to better inform the developers to fix this or port over AF the proper way, assuming that is the case at all.

Shame that it has lasted this long.

 

[BONKERS]

While people love to claim AF is free, it is not. Some more complicated things are going on than ever before in game engines, both during initial frame build and many post operations before it is sent out. Sometimes a lower AF setting may be required in a section for some strange reason, or some proper DOF approximations will blur things in a short distance and make it look like AF is missing.

In the case of Dying Light - I don't have the game to test, but I think the example being used to claim it is only 4X or worse is silly, because the games are not the same, the resolution is not the same, and so on.

Free? On PCs , the cost is so small that it essentially is. And the performance difference like someone else mentioned is non-existent. It's either 16xAF or no AF

Here's a comparison I made with ZAT comparing max settings with 16xAF vs 4xAF
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/115844

Note that the 4 frame difference is due to variance. They both go from 138 to 143 in this static scene.

Another
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/115845

 

[Futaba]

All done on PC ver 1.50, forced in nvidia control panel.

Exact same area/time of day/location/progression, at 1080p with AA disabled.
I would definitely say the 1.50 PS4 patch brings the game up to 8X, personally.

If anyone wants to grab the same scene, start a new game and complete the initial tutorial section and as soon as you are let outside, turn left and take a screenshot, then we can match directly with the above image.

 

[thelastword]

Always felt it was 8x AF as well, but there's not a drastic change from 8-16 anyway.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I thought it was 16x, but i agree with the poster above me. As long as there is some AF, i think 4x or 8x is fine. Barring in mind AF is def not free on console with limited HW, i think one of those two settings is a good compromise. Much better than none anyways, even 4x makes a massive difference to the scene

 

[Jellzy]

Pretty sure its a story reason that building isn't there anymore (unless I'm thinking of the wrong building).

Indeed.

The before picture is a pre patch and the building isn't there due to

Spoiler

a story mission in where it's blown up as the building is a nest of sorts

. The higher leveled character would also suggest this.

The after picture is post patch as the AF has improved but the lower leveled character would suggest that

Spoiler

the player hasn't progressed as far in terms of the story missions. The building hasn't been blown up yet

.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Need to change the thread title to: The PS4 - Cerny does not give AF

Well played.

 

[thelastword]

The after picture is post patch as the AF has improved but the lower leveled character would suggest that

Spoiler

the player hasn't progressed as far in terms of the story missions. The building hasn't been blown up yet

.

Lod has increased though, look at the second picture; there are more houses in the background, it's not just the building.

 

[RVinP]

Anistropic Filtering at 8x should be sufficient for PS4, until the resolution for future games are rendered at more than 1920x1080 resolution on screen.

 

[Kezen]

All done on PC ver 1.50, forced in nvidia control panel.

Exact same area/time of day/location/progression, at 1080p with AA disabled.
I would definitely say the 1.50 PS4 patch brings the game up to 8X, personally.

If anyone wants to grab the same scene, start a new game and complete the initial tutorial section and as soon as you are let outside, turn left and take a screenshot, then we can match directly with the above image.

So not even 16xAF on PS4 ? Jesus.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Anistropic Filtering at 8x should be sufficient for PS4, until the resolution for future games are rendered at more than 1920x1080 resolution on screen.

I was under the impression that PS4 cannot play 4K games and that being the case then what would be the point in higher than 1080p? There are no TV screens to accommodate a 1440p output, for instance...

 

[mintylurb]

All done on PC ver 1.50, forced in nvidia control panel.

Exact same area/time of day/location/progression, at 1080p with AA disabled.
I would definitely say the 1.50 PS4 patch brings the game up to 8X, personally.

If anyone wants to grab the same scene, start a new game and complete the initial tutorial section and as soon as you are let outside, turn left and take a screenshot, then we can match directly with the above image.

Are we sure it's been bumped to 8X though.
Gaf's resident PC/AF expert has lol'd at the notion it's 8X. Can't really argue against this.

 

[Slaythe]

So not even 16xAF on PS4 ? Jesus.

....

It had NONE. Went from NONE to x8. Good enough.

There is difference between low AF and no AF at all that makes the game look like vomit.

DmC is unacceptable (worse than last gen) so hopefully they will also patch it.

 

[Mabufu]

Are we sure it's been bumped to 8X though.
Gaf's resident PC/AF expert has lol'd at the notion it's 8X. Can't really argue against this.

He may need new glasses : / It's not his fault.

 

[R_Deckard]

Are we sure it's been bumped to 8X though.
Gaf's resident PC/AF expert has lol'd at the notion it's 8X. Can't really argue against this.

You can because it is wrong, different resolution and Angle (The Dying Light shot is lower for 1).

I would be amazed if this is not 8x AF and would be a good base for all games with 4x being a minimum.

 

[stryke]

LOD also improved ?

Spoiler

entire building missing in "before" pic

Edit, Or is that the building you take down during that mission ?

Before

After

I'd say it's gotten worse. At the fence up ahead, there's less foliage.

 

[Inuhanyou]

So not even 16xAF on PS4 ? Jesus.

Your acting surprised. We went from none to 8x, that's enough. Consoles in general suffer from weaker forms of AF in comparison to PC, even when the consoles are equal to each other. Its obviously not free

 

[LoveCake]

It is strange that it keeps happening in games though, there must be a reason other than the dev's being lazy?

How different is the actual code between the X1 & PS4 in writing the game code, could it be a issue there?

 

[Futaba]

Are we sure it's been bumped to 8X though.
Gaf's resident PC/AF expert has lol'd at the notion it's 8X. Can't really argue against this.

Not that I want to start a war or anything.
But comparing AF on completely different textures, at different angles, isn't a very reliable way of figuring out the correct AF level.
Adding differences in hardware increases the range of results too, Radeon cards can produce different results at the same AF settings as Nvidia cards, for example.

As for the AF issue with DMC, i'm on board the gnmx doesn't supply 4x/8x/16x AF by default ship already, waiting to set sail.

 

[Slaythe]

Well Qloc are responsible for the botched Ps4 version of DmC.

Who wants to spam them on twitter with me <3 ?

 

[HAL-x9000]

So not even 16xAF on PS4 ? Jesus.

PC master race have spoken! We are unworthy subservient PS4 players and we should not be happy about 8x AF!

 

[geordiemp]

Well Qloc are responsible for the botched Ps4 version of DmC.

Who wants to spam them on twitter with me <3 ?

Wow, its an unknown (to me anyway) polish contractor that did DMC port ? No wonder its not exactly good port...

 

[Gbraga]

Wow, its an unknown (to me anyway) polish contractor that did DMC port ? No wonder its not exactly good port...

QLOC is well known for making great ports.

If a late PC port is announced, people already hope it's either QLOC or Nixxes, those guys know their stuff. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and just politely ask the reason DmC lacks AF instead of spamming them demanding changes.

 

[chromatic9]

Weird thing about DMC is it looks worse than no AF in some scenes, as if there's some lower textures put in that have no filtering.

 

[Cyborg]

PC master race have spoken! We are unworthy subservient PS4 players and we should not be happy about 8x AF!

I agree.

If you enjoy PC more play your games there....let us enjoy PS4/X1. 8X AF is fine by me.
We started the discussion with lack of AF on PS4, now we have it, but it isnt high enough. You cant please all of GAF.

 

[Clear]

Weird thing about DMC is it looks worse than no AF in some scenes, as if there's some lower textures put in that have no filtering.

That was my first thought too, looked more like a bad LOD setting than anything else.

 

[thelastword]

So not even 16xAF on PS4 ? Jesus.

It may be 16xAF we don't have concrete proof yet, just that it looks like 8x on some of the screens posted. 16xAF is not a toll order for PS4 though, TLOU-R and Re-R2 both have 16xAF, TLOU is technically way over DMC.

 

[Kezen]

It may be 16xAF we don't have concrete proof yet, just that it looks like 8x on some of the screens posted. 16xAF is not a toll order for PS4 though, TLOU-R and Re-R2 both have 16xAF, TLOU is technically way over DMC.

And most importantly how more expensive can x16 be compared to x8 ? It just boggles my mind that regular (understand 16xAF) is not standard on consoles.

 

[Gbraga]

I agree.

If you enjoy PC more play your games there....let us enjoy PS4/X1. 8X AF is fine by me.
We started the discussion with lack of AF on PS4, now we have it, but it isnt high enough. You cant please all of GAF.

8x is definitely high enough to me.

4x is not that great, but it's a huge upgrade from no AF. Hopefully it's a simple fix and the other devs patch their games as well.