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[nynt9]

Competition in general is good.

Microsoft's specific brand of competition is fucking garbage.

No one is pushing for less competition on PC. We just want Microsoft to stop trying to make PC gaming worse in order to exert more control on the platform and make it more like the closed Xbox system.

Isn't it great that we have a new wave of juniors here to tell us how great UWP is?

Microsoft aren't trying to compete. The moves they've made with their store are anti competitive moves. They hold the keys to the platform, and have shown intent to lock it down. Sure, they're not doing it yet, but if they had their way they would. Thankfully they seem too incompetent to do so right now.

 

[Mman235]

The game never feels smooth, not even on a high end gpu in 1080p and 30fps. The reason is the Windows Store respectively the Universal Windows Plattform (UWP).
UWP is very aggressively interfering with the frame output. For example: Let's assume the game is being rendered with a 60 fps target (16.7 ms between each frame) which can't be reached for a brief moment and the fps go down to 59 fps. In this case the engine drops all other frames and goes for a 33.3 ms (30fps) half refresh rate. This method effectively eliminates tearing but it also messes up the frametimes and the way the game feels in a very bad way.

Wait so UWP forces borderless window but doesn't even give you the great triple-buffered VSync solution that's one of the whole appeals of borderless window in the first place? Holy shit this thing is a disaster.

Also lol that IQ everythingwasgrain.jpg

 

[Vintage]

(LEAVE PHIL SPENCER ALONE! Sorry, but: No.)

...Which is a UWP problem. Microsoft have touted "CODE ONCE, PORT TWICE!" as a UWP function (read: "you make the game once and it can run on Windows and X-box no problem, easy peasy lemon squeezy"). The lack of UWP giving the PC version a quit button-in game is a symptom of the problem. Remedy released a console version (good), and then quickly used UWP at Microsoft's behest to release a PC version (bad, currently. Remains to be seen if MS actually will fix these problems or just throw their hands up again on their PC initiative) through the "UWP wrapper" (ugh for lack of better term) to quickly get a PC port up.

Remedy didn't put in enough time to give a proper PC port, that much is certain. But it is squarely on MS's head in regards to forcing them to do a UWP port to try to show you can do quickie console ports and have them "just work" on PC.

That's... not how it works. Nobody forces you to code once, port twice. You can deploy completely different versions for different platforms. The quit button is missing because of design of UWP apps - close them with X button like other apps. Remedy put a pretty big list of graphical options, which shows that this is an actual PC version not just 1:1 console clone.

Overall, the notion of Microsoft sabotaging the game is just ridiculous here.
Problems that would be solved just by it being a win32 app: you'll be able to limit framerate to 30;
Problems that would be solved by being a win32 app and help from Remedy: SLI support;
Problems completely unrelated to UWP: Bad optimisation and bad image quality.

 

[epmode]

Isn't it great that we have a new wave of juniors here to tell us how great UWP is?

Every thread. Every single thread with bad news about MS' PC push has this garbage.

 

[Darak]

Fuck, I can't even play this if I wanted to. Having a name that has non-English letters, and using that name for my MS account, that probably means my account won't work.

Funnily, Remedy are Finnish and they have several letters like that too so they must have encountered this as well.

If you install Windows 10 using the recommended options (that is, you log in using a Microsoft account) the OS will create a default user for you, using your full name, and it will most likely include international characters in your document and system paths.

A lot of software has issues with this, and not only legacy applications. I had to reinstall from scratch once due to this crap. If you perform a custom installation creating your user with an ASCII name, or you upgrade from an previous Windows version, you won't be affected.

The fault is probably at the app level, but Microsoft used to do all kind of weird things under the carpet to ensure compatibility with legacy and misbehaving apps. Not anymore, it seems

 

[SomTervo]

And how you do this with a 360/xbone controller?

Grab the mouse for 5 seconds

 

[Doikor]

Microsoft aren't trying to compete. The moves they've made with their store are anti competitive moves. They hold the keys to the platform, and have shown intent to lock it down. Sure, they're not doing it yet, but if they had their way they would. Thankfully they seem too incompetent to do so right now.

And the moment they do it EU slaps them a couple billion euro anti compete / abuse of their monopoly fine and forces them to stop that shit.

edit: Basically as seen at //build they are going the other direction with the platform (freesync/g-sync/vsync control, some overlay support, side loading with a simple double click of a file, modding support. How any of these pan out is to be seen but at they are not actively trying to lock it down more). I think a lot of people forget that UWP didn't start as a game container it started as a generic application container directed at phones/tablets. Now they just decided to expand it to the desktop and are still in very early phases of adding more features. (Though I would prefer they add those features first and then push it to us but this is how software development works these days. Release early and beta test on users)

 

[Saul]

It's basically play by our rules or not at all. Their rules suck. This is a half ass port and MS should be dogged for it.

Yea I know, Microsoft basically brought console gaming to PC. I don't mind. What I'm excited about for the future is that cross-buy being a regular feature of the Windows ecosystem. Buy a game once, then play it on my console on my living room TV AND PC, whatever arranges me the most at a certain time.

They are complaining about UWP in particular, because it introduces restrictions that literally no other distributor has. Restrictions that cut out the heart of what makes PC gaming so interesting.

I don't care about the fancy stuff of PC gaming, so I don't really mind. Of cource it would be great if UWP would support modding of some kind in the future. The great thing about UWP is, that if this is the case, modding would then also be possible on Xbox One for universal app games.

 

[Maximo]

Every thread. Every single thread with bad news about MS' PC push has this garbage.

I love when the Xbox Ones always online message was being spread, so many inative juniors from the woodworks suddenly appeared.

 

[chromatic9]

I'm not convinced this unifying desktop console mobile is going to work. Feels like a Satya Nadella pipe dream and they have to speak nice about it.

QB needs the time and work put in just like any other game. This is what seems to be the problem.

 

[ghst]

gutted that MS have tanked their proprietary bloatware wrapper right out the gate. was really looking forward to their brave new vision of splintered libraries and obnoxious software middle men.

tough break phil.

 

[Saul]

QB needs the time and work put in just like any other game. This is what seems to be the problem.

Yes that's the real issue of QB as much as I understand it. It's a poorly executed port, and therefore the app isn't well optimized for PC, as the game wasn't built for PC from ground up. Alan Wake for PC was released some 2 years after its release on consoles. QB PC edition was announced only some months ago.

 

[epmode]

I don't care about the fancy stuff of PC gaming, so I don't really mind. Of cource it would be great if UWP would support modding of some kind in the future. The great thing about UWP is, that if this is the case, modding would then also be possible on Xbox One for universal app games.

UWP will never support full file system access or arbitrary modding. Never, ever, ever. The entire point of the archetecture is to sandbox the app so users can't do that stuff. The most we'll get is curated mods plus a few config files that the developer intentionally exposes.

The fact that you somehow believe that MS would ever, in a billion years, provide support for arbitrary modding in an Xbox game says a lot.

 

[Iztok Mravlja]

There goes their promise of PC gaming ... again.

I hope they step up their game down the line, but this is a bad start.

 

[Hari Seldon]

This is why I was never really worried about MS's plans to sabotage PC gaming. They will torpedo the entire thing themselves. They can't help themselves. If their biggest exclusive is a pile of shit then we have nothing to worry about lol.

 

[epmode]

I love when the Xbox Ones always online message was being spread, so many inative juniors from the woodworks suddenly appeared.

If I remember correctly, the mods found.a whole bunch of astroturf accounts at the time. I'd like for them to take another look now.

 

[Saul]

The fact that you somehow believe that MS would ever, in a billion years, provide support for arbitrary modding in an Xbox game says a lot.

I said modding of some sort, not arbitrary modding. Spencer already confirmed that a limited form of modding will be supported.

As I mentionned earlier, I have no problem with UWP games not supporting full modding. As a long term fan of Nintendo games, I have enjoyed those games greatly without having the feeling that they somehow need to be modded. I feel the same about good PC games, which I enjoyed greatly in the default version.

 

[SunBroDave]

Yea I know, Microsoft basically brought console gaming to PC. I don't mind. What I'm excited about for the future is that cross-buy being a regular feature of the Windows ecosystem. Buy a game once, then play it on my console on my living room TV AND PC, whatever arranges me the most at a certain time.



I don't care about the fancy stuff of PC gaming, so I don't really mind. Of cource it would be great if UWP would support modding of some kind in the future. The great thing about UWP is, that if this is the case, modding would then also be possible on Xbox One for universal app games.

1. UWP has absolutely nothing to do with cross buy.

2. Thats fine that you don't care about the way a game performs/looks, but if that's the case then you really have no business posting in a thread about problems with the way a game performs/looks.

 

[nynt9]

I said modding of some sort, not arbitrary modding. Spencer already confirmed that a limited form of modding will be supported.

As I mentionned earlier, I have no problem with UWP games not supporting full modding. As a long term fan of Nintendo games, I have enjoyed those games greatly without having the feeling that they somehow need to be modded. I feel the same about good PC games, which I enjoyed greatly in the default version.

Why settle for limited modding? Especially when the standard is full modding?

And it's great that you don't care about playing modded games, but many people do. The good thing about PC gaming is that it gives people options. the bad thing about MS's plan is that it takes these standards away, with nothing in return.

 

[Finaj]

Let's be honest, this is Remedy's fault, not UWP. Killer Instinct was released by the guys who did the Arkham Knight PC port and it turned out to work pretty well.

 

[wapplew]

I'm not convinced this unifying desktop console mobile is going to work. Feels like a Satya Nadella pipe dream and they have to speak nice about it.

QB needs the time and work put in just like any other game. This is what seems to be the problem.

It's not going to work.
But PC OS monopoly is their only leverage, unifiying them is the only move they have to hope for any proper support for their weaker platform.

 

[nynt9]

Let's be honest, this is Remedy's fault, not UWP. Killer Instinct was released by the guys who did the Arkham Knight PC port and it turned out to work pretty well.

Remedy's statement:

Quantum Break Windows 10 FAQ

Does the game support overlay software for broadcasting/streaming, benchmarking or mods?
That's determined by UWP, and currently the platform doesn't support overlay software. Microsoft is aware of this and are working on improving UWP.

I'm receiving a "File IO Failulre" error notice and the game doesn't launch.
It's an issue caused by having a Unicode based user account. We're working on fixing it ASAP, will update this thread with the latest status.

Does Windows 10 support SLI or Crossfire?
Multiple GPU set-ups aren't currently supported by UWP / DirectX 12.

There's something wrong with my savegame.
Please make sure you're running the latest version of Windows 10. Older versions have a bug which might cause a savegame error when playing a game with multiple user accounts on the same PC. To be sure, switch your account before signing in to the Xbox app and launching the game.

How much bandwidth does the live action show streaming require?
The game includes 4 episodes of the live action show, each episode being approximately 25 minutes. Streaming these will be similar to streaming a half hour TV show on typical video streaming services.

My high-end AMD GPU doesn't run the game in 4K / Ultra.
Please check if you have the latest drivers installed. Having 8gb RAM is recommended for 4K/ultra settings.

The game looks grainy.
The film grain effect becomes heavy on some TVs when the sharpness setting is too high. Also check if the cloud save has picked up your Xbox One game version gamma/brightness settings and pumped up the PC settings simultaneously.

Jack looks like a pirate.
DRM might've accidentally triggered. Reboot the game and eat a lot of vitamin C.

The game doesn't fit on my hard drive.
Check that your game download / installation hard drive has enough space. The installation package is about 45 Gb, the live action show is streamed so you don't need to worry about fitting additional 75 Gb on your drive.

The game is taking forever to download.
Microsoft is working on this and trying to improve server caching.

The game runs slowly on my system which meets the minimum spec.
The game defaults to your screen resolution. Try lowering the resolution from the game's display settings.

Can I limit my framerate?
The game supports 60fps and the framerate is based on your system resources. Capping the framerate isn't supported.

Why is the PC version only on Windows 10 and sold only through the Windows Store?
The publisher decides where and on what platform to distribute the game.

How can I quit the game?
It's like Brokeback Mountain all over again... You can exit Quantum Break just like any Windows 10 application, move the mouse cursor to the upper right corner and the regular [X] should appear.

http://community.remedygames.com/forum/games/quantum-break/260554-quantum-break-windows-10-faq

Also, inherently, the fact that you can't fix the game with mods is because of UWP.

 

[SunBroDave]

Let's be honest, this is Remedy's fault, not UWP. Killer Instinct was released by the guys who did the Arkham Knight PC port and it turned out to work pretty well.

Let's be honest - no, it's not that simple.

 

[AndyMoogle]

Let's be honest, this is Remedy's fault, not UWP. Killer Instinct was released by the guys who did the Arkham Knight PC port and it turned out to work pretty well.

In the end it's MS's decision when the game is ready for release. Remedy clearly needed more time, but it had to be released at the same time as the Xbox One version and now we have a mess of a game.

 

[potatohead]

I'm not convinced this unifying desktop console mobile is going to work. Feels like a Satya Nadella pipe dream and they have to speak nice about it.

QB needs the time and work put in just like any other game. This is what seems to be the problem.

It will work for their mobile/desktop platforms.... but there's going to be major growing pains gaming wise if this is any indication.

 

[Saul]

1. UWP has absolutely nothing to do with cross buy.

My bet is that this is going to be a standard feature for UWP games somewhat after the Xbox store has been merged into the Windows Store this summer.

If It's not going to be, then I agree with y'all that UWP is an overall letdown for gamers.

2. Thats fine that you don't care about the way a game performs/looks, but if that's the case then you really have no business posting in a thread about problems with the way a game performs/looks.

I do care about how a game performs and looks, I just don't really care about the modding aspect, and more about having custom and better hardware than on a console, as well as being able to comfortably play with mouse & keyboard.

There are many aspects to like PC gaming, not all of us PC gamers are into modding and open platform stuff.

 

[Saul]

the bad thing about MS's plan is that it takes these standards away, with nothing in return.

It doesn't take these standards away. Gamers that care about those standards will not buy on Windows Store, but prefer games that are released on Steam. As long as there is competition between the different ecosystems, I don't see any problem if one of the ecosystem is a closed system.

 

[SunBroDave]

I do care about how a game performs and looks, I just don't really care about the modding aspect, and more about having custom and better hardware than on a console, as well as being able to comfortably play with mouse & keyboard.

There are many aspects to like PC gaming, not all of us PC gamers are into modding and open platform stuff.

No one in this thread is talking about modding. The discussion is centered around the performance and visual issues that are not only caused by UWP but can not be fixed BECAUSE of UWP.

 

[moniker]

I do care about how a game performs and looks, I just don't really care about the modding aspect, and more about having custom and better hardware than on a console, as well as being able to comfortably play with mouse & keyboard

Well, if this wasn't a UWP app, the frame pacing issue might have been fixable with RTSS for example.

 

[Dictator93]

It doesn't take these standards away. Gamers that care about those standards will not buy on Windows Store, but prefer games that are released on basically any and everwhere else.

Steam is not the otherside of this coin, rather, what a pc game .exe entails and what standards pc versions should be held accountable to.

 

[Saul]

No one in this thread is talking about modding. The discussion is centered around the performance and visual issues that are not only caused by UWP but can not be fixed BECAUSE of UWP.

Most of the issues can be fixed, but would require a lot of rewriting in the code, which requires time and resources Remedy apparently didn't have until the release.

It's a poorly worked out console port, that's all. As I stated earlier: Alan Wake for PC was released some 2 years after its release on console. Now QB was released on the same day, after having been announced for PC only some months ago. Hopefully Remedy will be given time and resources to work out updates for the app fixing most of the addressed problems. We'll see about it.

 

[brotkasten]

I'm getting the feeling that Remedy was definitely open to putting it on the PC, but more than likely, MS made them put it on specifically Windows 10, and even more specifically, the W10 Store. Using UWPs is something they are probably not familiar with at all and also on top of that, even if they put a lot of work into it, it almost seems rushed for the PC version. Remedy makes good work and I do feel bad for them.

Basically, it smells of MS pushing W10/W10 Store on customers & Remedy and Remedy doing whatever that could with trying to work with UWPs.

I don't see how anyone could ever question that. Remedy deserves the benefit of the doubt far more than Microsoft in this situation.

 

[Auto-Reply]

It doesn't take these standards away. Gamers that care about those standards will not buy on Windows Store, but prefer games that are released on Steam. As long as there is competition between the different ecosystems, I don't see any problem if one of the ecosystem is a closed system.

It does take them away for all the games that are on that plattform, you could argue they were never there so they didn't take anything away and I'd say that's an ignorant way of looking at the problem.

 

[ViviOggi]

"open platform stuff"

Have we come up with a new term as suggested in a previous UWP thread yet? How does "limited open platform" sound?

 

[Lilalaunebaer]

Well, if this wasn't a UWP app, the frame pacing issue might have been fixable with RTSS for example.

If it wasn´t a UWP, we wouldn´t have those framepacing problems lol.

Basically UWP created the problem and wont let anyone fix it.

 

[SunBroDave]

Most of the issues can be fixed, but would require a lot of rewriting in the code, which requires time and resources Remedy apparently didn't have until the release.

It's a poorly worked out console port, that's all. As I stated earlier: Alan Wake for PC was released some 2 years after its release on console. Now QB was released on the same day, after having been announced for PC only some months ago.

They wouldnt even BE issues in the first place if they had just released it as a standard Win32 application. Third party tools could've fixed them day 1 and there wouldn't be 5 threads on GAF warning people not to buy it.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Yikes man. I hope no one spent money on this and just got it as an added bonus for preordering.

 

[AndyMoogle]

If it wasn´t a UWP, we wouldn´t have those framepacing problems lol.

Basically UWP created the problem and wont let anyone fix it.

There are plenty of win32 games with frame pacing problems.

 

[SunBroDave]

There are plenty of win32 game with frame pacing problems.

That can be fixed with something like RTSS.

 

[GhostTrick]

Yea I know, Microsoft basically brought console gaming to PC. I don't mind. What I'm excited about for the future is that cross-buy being a regular feature of the Windows ecosystem. Buy a game once, then play it on my console on my living room TV AND PC, whatever arranges me the most at a certain time.

No, they didn't. They made PC a lesser experience. Valve did brought some of console gaming to PC though: An interface you can use with your controller, a real account system allowing you to buy once and play everywhere.

Microsoft released QB which you cant fully play with a controller because you need to use a mouse to exit, and isnt even crossbuy, because the offer is a preorder one.

 

[AndyMoogle]

That can be fixed with something like RTSS.

That wasn't my point. He said that UWP created the problem, which is just nonsense. It stops us from trying to fix the problem, but it's not the cause of the frame pacing issue.

 

[Lilalaunebaer]

There are plenty of win32 games with frame pacing problems.

Quantum Breaks framepacing problems are (at least according to the articles in the OP) a direct result of UWP. If FPS < 60; Fps = 30.

So in this case, yeah.

 

[Metfanant]

Apparently, you can bruce force it to look a bit nicer via DSR to 4K, but it's still not native and run at 20fps on 980Ti. Moreover, it seems that the game is using the same resolution reconstruction technique as on XBO hence the blurry IQ. More gaf impressions at the PC Performance thread.

Unless im totally off base, it sounds like this is something that could become an issue with more and more Xbone "exclusive" games coming to the PC..

Even though the PS4 and Xbone use "PC" hardware, and while its pretty run of the mill in terms of performance, its still pretty exotic in its overall design...and both, probably a little more so the Xbone will require tricks (like QB's resolution reconstruction) to achieve the intended results...

While the achieve great results on the consoles, to allow them to punch above their weight so to speak, they cause more problems on the PC side where you have the horsepower to run the game natively in 1080p or higher with more traditional rendering techniques...

 

[Saul]

It does take them away for all the games that are on that plattform, you could argue they were never there so they didn't take anything away

But that's exactly what I'm saying. Xbox exclusives are coming to PC, which is a great thing. And as UWP is still young, things are going to get better over the years, as developers get used to it, as soon as games are developed ground up for the platform, not as QB.

They wouldnt even BE issues in the first place if they had just released it as a standard Win32 application.

Which supports my point that it's a poorly worked out port. Killer Instinct doesn't have most of the issues QB has, does it?

 

[AndyMoogle]

Quantum Breaks framepacing problems are (at least according to the articles in the OP) a direct result of UWP. If FPS < 60; Fps = 30.

So in this case, yeah.

You can lock the game to 30 fps, but it still has frame pacing problems.

 

[SunBroDave]

That wasn't my point. He said that UWP created the problem, which is just nonsense. It stops us from trying to fix the problem, but it's not the cause of the frame pacing issue.

While I understand your point - that there are many possible causes of frame pacing issues - it's my understanding that in this specific case, the frame pacing issue is in fact caused by the nature of it being a UWA.

 

[Blablurn]

Too bad

 

[Htown]

Isn't it great that we have a new wave of juniors here to tell us how great UWP is?

super great when they barely post in 5 years and then suddenly triple their post count in Microsoft related threads, right around the launch of a new MS gaming initiative.

 

[Dictator93]

Unless im totally off base, it sounds like this is something that could become an issue with more and more Xbone "exclusive" games coming to the PC..

Even though the PS4 and Xbone use "PC" hardware, and while its pretty run of the mill in terms of performance, its still pretty exotic in its overall design...and both, probably a little more so the Xbone will require tricks (like QB's resolution reconstruction) to achieve the intended results...

While the achieve great results on the consoles, to allow them to punch above their weight so to speak, they cause more problems on the PC side where you have the horsepower to run the game natively in 1080p or higher with more traditional rendering techniques...

I do not think this is that, at all.
Especially under DX12.

Spoiler

also there is no game I can think of that has evidenced such a problem this entire gen

 

[Saul]

Microsoft released QB which you cant fully play with a controller because you need to use a mouse to exit

Wouldn't you have to use your mouse for shutting down your computer afterward anyway? ^^

I mean you're right, this is an issue, but it's a minimal one in my opinion.