LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Some gaffers really are an embarrassment here.
reference: http://www.develop-online.net/inter...y-at-dawn-talks-quality-over-quantity/0203245
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Ready at Dawn responds to "concern" over The Order: 1886 campaign length
- Thread starter DarkLordMalik
- Start date
reference: http://www.develop-online.net/inter...y-at-dawn-talks-quality-over-quantity/0203245
EightBitNate
Member
Why exactly does it have to be one extreme or the other? There are lots of games that give good incentive to go back and replay without being tedious.
nobodyshero
Banned
For what it's worth, games as streamlined as The Order are almost non existent these days, so it is kind of a shock to people's systems to see.
FeiRR
Banned
If you think worldwide, consoles have never been dominant and it's hard to imagine they ever will be.
Personally the reason I'm not interested in the Order is the QTE and Cutscenes making up so much of the actual game. The fact that cutscenes are unskipable just shows me the type of experience RAD is aiming for.
I honestly love some games that have tons of cutscenes, but I usually skip 99% of all cutscenes because the story outside of the gameplay doesn't interest me most of the time. Witcher 2 is probably the only game where I watched a lot of the cutscenes in my play thoughts.
There is a market for everything but the design of this game is going to turn some people off without ever playing it.
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
Experiences with games can widely vary depending on the goal set in mind. Some prefer the ends, others prefer the means. Then we have individuals who simply enjoy never reaching the end and remaining stuck in limbo because video game limbo can actually be fun sometimes.
lol
Captain Tuttle
Member
The post you're quoting is dumb but isn't RAD first party?
Honest question, I thought they were but could be wrong.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
That's shitty. Where is that from?
Hexa
Member
No they are not.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Why does every game have to have an incentive?
Just out of curiosity do you watch them on the first play through? I get skipping cutscenes when I've played the game already but I'm not really one to skip them the first time.
CosmicQueso
Member
No, they never will be.
At some point in the next 20 years, small devices will be powerful enough to be all in one, with just the display output changing.
If we can get to the point where development can be applied across all kinds of use devices... mobile, on a display, wherever... then we'll really see some cool applications of being able to develop on that scale.
scoobidoo112
Member
Boohoo, opinions differ, some people are positive about a game and others are negative, just get over it already and move on.
NeoGaf should not become some echo-chamber where everyone is only allowed to say how much they love every game and developer. Just because these devs are incapable of dealing with negative opinions doesn't mean that Gaffers that have those negative opinions should be embarrassed or ashamed about it.
I swear to God, these days I see more people whining and complaining about how offended or annoyed they are by what other people have to say than actual problematic / ban-worthy posts. It's okay, be offended, it's just a byproduct of freedom of speech.
I'm honestly looking forward to The Order, and if it's around 5 - 8 hours then, as long as the experience is good, I'll want to play it, but I'm not going to sit here and tell other people they can't dislike the game, just like I don't want them to do the same to me when I'm negative.
I just move over to the next post and continue breathing...
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
I am not sure I follow? I am just talking about the game length and how it isn't really fair to compare such a focused games with one that is relatively open.
Why else would you play again?
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Maybe so. And maybe it is the by product of me being 31 and been through an era where games cost more and delivered less in many examples, especially when adjusting for inflation. Also as I have become older money is less a concern and time is more so. So my perspective is far different than some others and I get that. However, 40 some odd pages over this games length? Seriously?
Simply stating that evidently for a game to be a desirable today it must have side quests, maybe a morality system, and be open world.
Same reason I replay many of my favorite games, because I enjoy to do so.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Huh
Well I learned something new today. Thanks.
LightofRohan
Member
Game is gorgeous still blows me a way... don't spoil the experience on youtube/twitch it doesn't do it justice.
It's a shame they get SO much shit, when in such a "scummy-practice" industry (according to gaf) a game kind of overcomes a lot of those issues: no day-one dlc, no invasive dlc, no preorder content that is crucial for the game, no downgrade issues (actually upgrade), actual antialiasing, a very polished experience, no tacked on multiplayer crap, small file size, no huge day 1 update.
I know pricing sucks, but games drop in price and there are other ways to get it while supporting the devs. Don't spoil the whole thing.
It's a shame they get SO much shit, when in such a "scummy-practice" industry (according to gaf) a game kind of overcomes a lot of those issues: no day-one dlc, no invasive dlc, no preorder content that is crucial for the game, no downgrade issues (actually upgrade), actual antialiasing, a very polished experience, no tacked on multiplayer crap, small file size, no huge day 1 update.
I know pricing sucks, but games drop in price and there are other ways to get it while supporting the devs. Don't spoil the whole thing.
So of the three key aspects of a game - visuals, gameplay and story - which would you say was your priority with The Order 1886?
I think story and visuals are very high. Gameplay is something that... it's a game, we make games, we can't get around it.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Actually looking forward to all three. Why is that so hard to comprehend?
No it's embarassing when it's become expected that if they release something that they will get vitrol about it. That's honestly quite pathetic that they have to expect that- because as all of these threads have proved. It just happens every time. We don't want an echo chamber of all goodness, but this game has attracted so much negaitivity I have never seen before. It's honestly quite baffaling just how much it gets.
It's like the game merely existing they have issue with and they must tell everyone in every thread that. It's really quite sad. I'm getting sick of this whole: "Just get a thicker skin herp derp" nonsense going around. It's like people want to justify people acting like such assholes. I just don't understand it.
Last year I played Bayo1/2 and skipped absolutely everything I could. Bayo 2 is still my favorite game of 2014. I've no idea who the final boss was and where he came from and this didn't effect my enjoyment of the game in anyway.
RPGs are usually the only type of games where I don't skip cutscenes during my first play through because it used to be that decisions you make are based on the information which was given to you and could effect the whole game. Usually for most other genres I don't pay too much attention to the plot, since it usually doesn't effect my playthrought too much and you could always return if things don't turn out correctly without losing too much time.
ScepticMatt
Member
LightofRohan
Member
You can practice your freedom of speech and still "be an asshole."
Nobody is advocating the banning of people with negative opinions. Just calling out people with obvious obnoxious no bases ramblings and trolls that are just trying to get a rise out of people that are actually excited.
The mods do a good enough job figuring out what is what.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
But I didn't say that?
Wanting to enjoy the game again is an incentive. Other games just have more and better incentives on top of that one.
EightBitNate
Member
That almost never happens around here. Random shit flinging is almost always banned.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Someone's sailing the SS Failboat...
cripterion
Member
You're kidding right?
And maybe the game wouldn't get so much criticism if they had shown it in a good light. Every demo they brought to conventions and such was described as boring gameplay/cutscenes.
Now people are talking about the game cause of its short length and poor replayability, how's that hating? They should take the criticism, move on and do better with their next game.
By the way, is dynamic destruction still in?
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
You can't understand that a game that evidently can be completed from start to finish playing in a completely normal fashion in less than 6 hours, of which a significant portion is non-to-barely interactive, and that is being sold on the strength of a story which is apparently left unfinished in a Pilot Episode manner but is being sold at full sticker price can attract negative attention?
No I'm not. Honestly we have had like what. I swore I've seen like over 6 threads about the Order these past two weeks. Each filled with so much fucking negativity. It's practically become an expectation that every thread of the Order will end the same. Hell it's been like that day one. Most games I've seen don't deal with this much. We had to have a thread close already because of how much shit throwing was going down.
Jesus this Cyncisim culture is getting to me.
Your under the assumption that this hate-filled train just started recently. Are people rewriting history? Or did we not have it over the course of months were people go into Order 1886 threads expecting it to turn to shit? Sadly it's getting even shitter.
TimeEffect
Member
Rejoice ! Your Order 1886 play will be 96 hours than !!! ;-)
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Did anyone actually ever use the word "failboat" in the order threads?
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
And this thread keeps on going.....
Objectively Bad Opinion
Member
I haven't read the thread, I'm wondering if anyone has drawn parallels to Ryse's reception yet?
This seems just like that, but amplified.
This seems just like that, but amplified.
Dictator93
Member
Many, Many, Many people have done that.
bananafactory
Banned
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Lol almost did the same. Saw a post mentioning chapter 16 and was out
cripterion
Member
Don't you remember the countless threads filled with trollish comments after the Xbox One got released? Ryse? Destiny?
Those are the one's I can name on top of my head but basically there's always a bunch of threads like this before any big game release.
Most of the time the criticism is warranted.
I remember everyone gushing about the graphics in the other threads but being negative towards QTE's and insta-fail forced stealth sections.
TimeEffect
Member
Sorry man, I just intended to show the link
How are your reddit comments ordered? Sort them by "best" or "top" if it's already not.
Sorry again
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
I honestly doubt it, but the term is hilarious. It's like 10 years too late for failboat to be used.
DarkLordMalik
Member
I tried my best but still, someone already spoiled the end boss for me. Not really a video or written spoilers, just images of the end boss =/
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Just know that your bravery saved me from reading it.
LightofRohan
Member
Ugh, gross.
They kinda have to. Gamers are a little different, compared to say film or book enthusiasts. When was the last time someone working on film or book got death threats?
CosmicQueso
Member
Please tell me this is a joke post.
I'm in the progress of writing my review and I'd like to share a small opinion of mine. Feel free to disagree. Trying my best to not break embargo here, so don't expect too much details.
Anyway, I have an issue with "buyer guide" reviews. That is: reviews telling you if the game is worth your money and not whether the game is good or bad. This is a personal thing for sure. I mean... gaming isn't free. Not everyone has the privilege to buy several $60 games every month. So I understand it's important for some people to know the value of a game next to its quality. As a reviewer, I am privileged to try out games for free. So it's easier for me to judge a game on its quality and not its value/$.
That said, I don't like the comparisons people make when we talk about value. Game length is a hot topic right now regarding The Order 1886 and that makes me sad. Kinda. People keep comparing the game to other games. They're not wondering if the length is right for this game. They're wondering why it is shorter than other games. It's unacceptable etc. But that's not the question we should ask. The question should be: does the length work for this game? I'm not gonna answer this question because I can't... not yet... but it's something to think about.
If I buy a really good book for $15 which is somewhat short and then another book which is equally good but ten times longer, I won't be disappointed. They're the same price but they're both good in a different way. I don't view length as something that is so important to the experience. I'd rather read, watch or play something that is really tight yet short compared to a bloated mess that takes forever.
The Wolf of Wall Street is a personal favourite of mine and it's about three hours long. Do I like it more than other movies because of its length? No. In fact, some people think it's way too long. It's the same price as any other movie, but compared to games, it doesn't seem to be as important. Now, I know this is not a 100% fair comparison. A game is $60. Movies and books are way cheaper and less of an investment. It's easier to just focus on the quality here.
But the price doesn't influence the quality of a game, only its "value". Would The Order 1886 suddenly become better if it was $30? No. It would become an easier buy, I agree. But the game quality will not change. Nothing will change. Only your perception. So many people want game to be "art", but it seems there is still a big business side to things that people have issues with. Again, in my opinion people aren't criticizing the game length because they're wondering if it'll work for The Order 1886, but because other games are longer and more deserving of their money. Despite not having played the game. They're only going off a number.
Now, keep in mind everything I wrote here is about the game length. I did not say anything about the gameplay. Don't take this text of mine as proof I think the game is incredible or anything. I'm just saying I disagree with the length drama. Feel free to disagree with me, as this is but an opinion piece of mine.
Anyway, I have an issue with "buyer guide" reviews. That is: reviews telling you if the game is worth your money and not whether the game is good or bad. This is a personal thing for sure. I mean... gaming isn't free. Not everyone has the privilege to buy several $60 games every month. So I understand it's important for some people to know the value of a game next to its quality. As a reviewer, I am privileged to try out games for free. So it's easier for me to judge a game on its quality and not its value/$.
That said, I don't like the comparisons people make when we talk about value. Game length is a hot topic right now regarding The Order 1886 and that makes me sad. Kinda. People keep comparing the game to other games. They're not wondering if the length is right for this game. They're wondering why it is shorter than other games. It's unacceptable etc. But that's not the question we should ask. The question should be: does the length work for this game? I'm not gonna answer this question because I can't... not yet... but it's something to think about.
If I buy a really good book for $15 which is somewhat short and then another book which is equally good but ten times longer, I won't be disappointed. They're the same price but they're both good in a different way. I don't view length as something that is so important to the experience. I'd rather read, watch or play something that is really tight yet short compared to a bloated mess that takes forever.
The Wolf of Wall Street is a personal favourite of mine and it's about three hours long. Do I like it more than other movies because of its length? No. In fact, some people think it's way too long. It's the same price as any other movie, but compared to games, it doesn't seem to be as important. Now, I know this is not a 100% fair comparison. A game is $60. Movies and books are way cheaper and less of an investment. It's easier to just focus on the quality here.
But the price doesn't influence the quality of a game, only its "value". Would The Order 1886 suddenly become better if it was $30? No. It would become an easier buy, I agree. But the game quality will not change. Nothing will change. Only your perception. So many people want game to be "art", but it seems there is still a big business side to things that people have issues with. Again, in my opinion people aren't criticizing the game length because they're wondering if it'll work for The Order 1886, but because other games are longer and more deserving of their money. Despite not having played the game. They're only going off a number.
Now, keep in mind everything I wrote here is about the game length. I did not say anything about the gameplay. Don't take this text of mine as proof I think the game is incredible or anything. I'm just saying I disagree with the length drama. Feel free to disagree with me, as this is but an opinion piece of mine.
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