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[P90]

Vita

Kinda, sorta DD only. The Vita doesn't have a UMD drive, so Vita has very little BC, unless you want to pay $$$.

PS4 + Wii U + Vita + 3DS is looking to be my gaming future.

Mine as well. シ

 

[CLEEK]

Other than the problem with the drive (DVD), couldn`t the games run on an official emulator or something without compromising the hardware?

Emulating the CPU of the 360 and PS3 on a Jaguar derived AMD mobile CPU isn't technically feasible, so software emulation wasn't an option. The only way Sony or MS could have BC is to include hardware from the older console in the new one, as per the original launch PS3 having the PS2's guts in it.

 

[Vormund]

One thing that really needs to be edited in the OP is the notion that because of the "Stingray" 360, it means Paul thinks Durango will have no BC.

Except that is not what he said, he only listed it as a possibility and he really had no idea at all about the BC situation beyond what the public knows.

More realistic is that Durango does have BC, retail and disc or one or the other, and 360 gets a big price cut for the non-enthusiast/late adopter/casual crowd who won't be getting a Durango anywhere near the first years.

Yeah all I got out of that is that it's simply a super slim 360.Maybe stingray even drops the optical drive and they start pushing games out digitally same time as retail. Could be testing the waters.

Emulating the CPU of the 360 and PS3 on a Jaguar derived AMD mobile CPU isn't technically feasible, so software emulation wasn't an option. he only way Sony or MS could have BC is to include hardware from the older console in the new one, as per the original launch PS3 having the PS2's guts in it.

I don't think they would emulate. They only need xenon (same vendor for GPU) or just put the shrunk down SoC, which is due for another revision apparently. Also, DirectX has a hardware abstraction layer below it. Plenty of options for MS to pursue BC. Whether they do or not.....we'll see.

 

[MaulerX]

I didn't mean to compare them, just my opinion based on what we've heard so far

I'm just trying to figure it out (as do all of us, lol). Either this system is more powerful than rumored, or the rumored price is wrong.

 

[GoofsterStud]

I hope the $500 rumor is true because likely outcomes:
1. It's medium-high end hardware. Comparable with PS4 but faster.

It's actually rumored to be slower, and part of that is dedicated to the "OS".

 

[Saint Gregory]

PS4 + Wii U + Vita + 3DS is looking to be my gaming future.

Add PC/Steam and you've got a deal. Sony needs to show me my Wipeout before I make a PS4 commitment though.

 

[Justzisguyukno]

I'm just trying to figure it out (as do all of us, lol). Either this system is more powerful than rumored, or the rumored price is wrong.

The "Power" argument probably wont make too much of a difference for quite some time, except for 1st party titles.

Perhaps the $500 version has BC?

 

[GoofsterStud]

Add PC/Steam and you've got a deal. Sony needs to show me my Wipeout before I make a PS4 commitment though.

/Tear

"Sony stated that after an assessment of all European studios, it had decided to close Studio Liverpool" I fear it won't be the same.

Sega pulling an F-Zero (Wipeout) might be the next best thing, if Sega hasn't dissolved that team.

 

[BlueTsunami]

All the rumors read as though this console will be a disaster. I know the proverb about any press being good press but at this point it looks like Microsoft has an uphill battle with their reveal if a good portion of perceived negative rumors are true.

Also possibly inflating the cost of the single down payment SKU to supplement a contract based SKU is grimey as hell. I wouldn't want to support such a model.

 

[Replicant]

I guess MS thinks they can get away with it since they're now popular with the crowds/publics. It's now up to the public to decide if they like to be treated like shit and allow anti-consumer practices that MS endorses.

 

[pieatorium]

I don't buy $500 as the price if there is no BC.

If BC is included then sure but, at least from the rumours we have heard, I don't see a $500 price being likely even with kinect 2.0 in every box.

 

[shinra-bansho]

More realistic is that Durango does have BC, retail and disc or one or the other

It's no more realistic than it not having BC. Other rumors point to the latter as well.

 

[Wynnebeck]

I guess MS thinks they can get away with it since they're now popular with the crowds/publics. It's now up to the public to decide if they like to be treated like shit and allow anti-consumer practices that MS endorses.

You know what's funny? As much as I hate to admit it, I think MS is going to throw enough money to advertise this thing that people actually will believe that it's a good thing and that makes me sad. :/

 

[coldfoot]

The two years of Xbox LIVE isn't going to be the $60/year version that you were going to get regardless...Currently The $99 360 requires a $15/month version of Xbox LIVE for 2 years. It's not any different than regular Xbox LIVE, just includes extended warranty.

So it's not $300 + 2 years of LIVE you were already going to get. It's either $500 + $5/month for Live or $300 + $15/month for live for 2 years, where it reverts to $5/month afterwards if you choose to subscribe. Same thing with PS+ on PS4, if you get the PS4 at a discount, you can bet your PS+ bill isn't going to be the same as one who paid full price.

 

[grimshawish]

Still think the secret Sega Vengeance is coming. All over my face.

 

[CLEEK]

RE: Stingray.

If MS have reduced the manufacturing cost of the 360 so far to make a $99 price point feasible, the core SoC should be pretty damn cheap in the scheme of things.

This could mean including the 360's SoC into the Durango wouldn't be cost prohibitive. That doesn't mean it will happen, but MS are in a better position than Sony were in this regard.

There is still hope!

 

[airborn]

Surface was good enough when it was announced but when it released 1080p and high res tablets were on the rise.

Specs wouldn't have made any difference. Surface was two-three years late to market.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

http://www.egmnow.com/digitalnoob/the-inequality-of-xbox-live-gold-accounts/
http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/xbox_rewards_support/f/29/t/345653.aspx

That's dumb and they need to fix it. However, those are extremely minor perks that you're missing out on. So minor that I'd wager that most Gold members probably don't even know that they have these "perks."

 

[GoofsterStud]

It's no more realistic than it not having BC. Other rumors point to the latter as well.

The only rumor pointing to it was the sheet (roughly 3 years old) that also said it used IBM chipset. If it used the IBM chipset backwards compatibility would of been in the cards. They went a different route with non compatible architecture. Every rumor after has been that it would not have BC compatibility.

Pretty much the same situation as PS4 with CELL.

 

[DaBoss]

You know what's funny? As much as I hate to admit it, I think MS is going to throw enough money to advertise this thing that people actually will believe that it's a good thing and that makes me sad. :/

It is sad that the general consumer doesn't do much research into a product, and they probably won't understand always-online DRM until it affects them.

What I'm hoping for is that some of the general consumers get affected by always-online DRM and then spread the word about it. This would be the scenario I see likely to happen.

 

[artist]

Reaching critical mass of negativity.

 

[xxracerxx]

Reaching critical mass of negativity.

Cerny is pleased.

 

[DaBoss]

Reaching critical mass of negativity.

 

[Vormund]

RE: Stingray.

If MS have reduced the manufacturing cost of the 360 so far to make a $99 price point feasible, the core SoC should be pretty damn cheap in the scheme of things.

This could mean including the 360's SoC into the Durango wouldn't be cost prohibitive. That doesn't mean it will happen, but MS are in a better position than Sony were in this regard.

There is still hope!

Agreed. They are in a better position than Sony was.

1) They have shrunk down the 360 to a SoC - Sony have not.
2) DirectX is on top of a HAL.
3) Sony changed GPU and CPU vendor, MS only CPU.

Like I said though, we will see.

 

[Phatmac]

The subscription model isn't surprising considering their success with it. Also you guys don't know what the price of a PS4 is going to be. How do you know that it won't be $500+?

 

[BlockheadBrown]

Regarding "Stingray" SoC - I see them selling this $99 version with some kind of hook-up to the Nextbox. If you want BC with the Next Xbox, you'll have to either keep your old one or pay for this.

 

[Heysoos]

guess I'll be PC gaming only then

 

[Rebel Leader]

Regarding "Stingray" SoC - I see them selling this $99 version with some kind of hook-up to the Nextbox. If you want BC with the Next Xbox, you'll have to either keep your old one or pay for this.

like the HD-DVD add-on in a way?

 

[BlockheadBrown]

The subscription model isn't surprising considering their success with it. Also you guys don't know what the price of a PS4 is going to be. How do you know that it won't be $500+?

Sony reps have said in interviews that they've learned from previous releases and wouldn't launch a $500 base console again.

 

[Brimstone]

Do you think people are going to willfully ignore the fact that Durango might have to be always connected to the internet to work? No. MS can try to skate around that fact all they want but now that we have mainstream media picking up steam on this story, MS needs to defuse this fast before it gets out of hand.

I think the the speculation that Kinect 2.0 needs a constant internet connection so it can access databases for higher fidelity functionality is most likely true. Microsoft seems to be going all in with Kinect 2.0 and it probably needs an always connected console.

 

[Jarnet87]

Seems kind of weird to have an event so close to E3, but I guess it will be a similar preview show like Sony did.

 

[BlockheadBrown]

like the HD-DVD add-on in a way?

Maybe something like that, yep. It's a stretch, but I could see them doing it.

 

[Replicant]

You know what's funny? As much as I hate to admit it, I think MS is going to throw enough money to advertise this thing that people actually will believe that it's a good thing and that makes me sad. :/

Yeah, I don't know what else we can do but telling people that we know not to fall for this BS. But really, at the end of the day, it's up to the public to become smart and refuse this kind of anti-consumer tactics.

I'm going to vote with my wallet too by not buying the console.

 

[Uno Venova]

The subscription model isn't surprising considering their success with it. Also you guys don't know what the price of a PS4 is going to be. How do you know that it won't be $500+?

Well of course we don't know for sure.

I don find it crazy how the entire forum settled on a 399 to 450 price because of the estimated cost of the parts, the Kotaku rumor of 429, and Asahi saying it will be 40,000 yen. Plus Sony's remakrs on price. But once Paul speculated a 500 dollar price for Durango, expectations for the PS4 price instantly shot up to 500.

 

[dancmc]

The problem is, even if every single gaffer votes with their wallet and skips Durango, it could still end up being the best selling home console next gen

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Next-gen will be really interesting to see if the mass public in US and UK accepted Xbox chiefly because of its own strengths or simply because Sony fucked up big time.

 

[Sub_Level]

There are way more expensive hobbies out there (not that I'm not a poor student who probably won't be able to afford a new console this year, but I'm just saying a $500 piece of hardware every 4-7 years is not bad)

Always online singleplayer games is some bullshit though. Hope it's not true.

 

[MaulerX]

RE: Stingray.

If MS have reduced the manufacturing cost of the 360 so far to make a $99 price point feasible, the core SoC should be pretty damn cheap in the scheme of things.

This could mean including the 360's SoC into the Durango wouldn't be cost prohibitive. That doesn't mean it will happen, but MS are in a better position than Sony were in this regard.

There is still hope!

Well, Thurrott never said the 720 would not have BC. He just said he didn't know and just guessed that it wouldn't because of the $99 Stingray 360. I'm pretty sure Microsoft has been working on further shrinking the 360's SoC (hence, the $99 Stingray model. 'if true'). It wouldn't be out of the realm of plausibility that they might have included this streamlined SoC on Durango, further explaining those pesky "2 APU's" rumors.

 

[Rebel Leader]

I think the the speculation that Kinect 2.0 needs a constant internet connection so it can access databases for higher fidelity functionality is most likely true. Microsoft seems to be going all in with Kinect 2.0 and it probably needs and an always connected console.

#ComplexServerSideCalculations

and

I hate to disturb you when you’re playing Xbox but I’d like to offer some straight answers on the topic: Always-Connected and why Xbox is not an offline experience.

Always-Connected is a big change from Xboxs of the past. It didn’t come down as an order from corporate and it isn’t a clandestine strategy to control players. It’s fundamental to the vision we had for Xbox. From the ground up, we designed this console with multiplayer in mind – using new technology to realize a vision of players connected online to create a console that captured the dynamism of the world we live in; a global, ever-changing, social world.

 

[RavenH2]

Agreed. They are in a better position than Sony was.

1) They have shrunk down the 360 to a SoC - Sony have not.
2) DirectX is on top of a HAL.
3) Sony changed GPU and CPU vendor, MS only CPU.

Like I said though, we will see.

So it is technically possible without an extraordinary production cost or without compromising the NBox...

Then it's a matter of business.... what's more profitable?

What do you think?
Will MS drop the X360 support as soon as the NBox launches and add BC just like it did (to some extend with the Orginal Xbox)?
Or will it keep two platforms alive, similar to what sony have done in the past?

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Online-only is basically confirmed at this point.

So I'll pass, regardless of the price.

 

[DaBoss]

So it is technically possible without an extraordinary production cost or without compromising the NBox...

Then it's a matter of business.... what's more profitable?

What do you think?
Will MS drop the X360 support as soon as the NBox launches and add BC just like it did (to some extend with the Orginal Xbox)?
Or will it keep two platforms alive, similar to what sony have done in the past?

It would be a lot more profitable to have BC. They could use it as a marketing point. "All of your favourite Xbox 360 games will also work on this new Xbox."

They can keep their digital titles on the next Xbox and aren't limited to keeping their 360.

 

[Ol No Bones]

Microsoft hates consumers, kinect sucks, always online, Sony loves you... Gamers are so dramatic. I'm gonna wait till they announce before I decide to buy one or not. The people in here talking about getting out the word to people not to buy lol. People will buy what they want you don't have to do sony's dirty work. Why do you even care what people purchase? Wow.

 

[CLEEK]

Agreed. They are in a better position than Sony was.

1) They have shrunk down the 360 to a SoC - Sony have not.
2) DirectX is on top of a HAL.
3) Sony changed GPU and CPU vendor, MS only CPU.

Like I said though, we will see.

I hope so. I am a huge proponent for BC, and have always used it, well into the life of the new consoles. I have a massive library of XBLA and PSN games, that I'd naively thought would just carry over to the Xbox3 and PS3.

To be honest, while I have a bigger PSN library than XBLA, I don't mind so much hanging onto my PS3 as this will just act as DVD/BD/PSN player under my TV, and move my BD player to our family room.

But with the 360, I'm still rocking a launch 360 (well, it's been repaired/replaced 5 times, but it's still an original model). So every time I turn it on, I half expect it to die. If the next Xbox doesn't have BC, I'll need to buy a replacement 360, which I'm not prepared to do at the current price point seeing how little I use my 360 now. A $99 version sounds perfect, but I'd obviously much prefer to just buy a next Xbox and have BC.

 

[Terrell]

The short version is that Microsoft is trying to make a Wii-like move with Durango. They are hoping the nifty stuff with Kinect 2.0 in every box will get them major media coverage. For example a UI that can run off the camera, or the ability to control movies and such without a remote. All the coverage you mentioned is website stuff, combined I doubt it all has more than a million views. If Microsoft catches major media attention with their whole augmented reality no controller required stuff they can end up on all the major nightly news, morning news, and afternoon talk programs. That could net them exposure and mind share that is basically unheard of. It is that sort of coverage that drove Wii sales, and that is basically what Microsoft wants. They don't want the normal paltry launch year numbers, they want to be the next iPad.

If they're trying for a Wii situation, they've already screwed that pooch in that it's pretty much guaranteed to not be available at a mass-market price. All the "cool" stuff you mention won't mean a hill of beans if people say "$400? SCREW THAT!" And I'm being generous and going $100 less than the rumored price.

And writing off websites as no big deal, considering that it's the most-viewed news source in the modern era of smartphones, is the most myopic thing I've ever read on the internet in MONTHS. Seriously, stop now, my sides already hurt. We're not in the Wii era where the Today Show is going to save your image anymore.

 

[wildfire]

there are around 30 other countries in Europe besides UK.

Yes yes sure. Name 5 of them if there so many! I bet you can't!

Germany, France, Brazil, South Africa, Australia.

You're joking?

Yeah all five that I named are in Europe afaik.

*blinks*

Pro-tip: before you try and school someone in geography, read a book or something.

Unless you're from some backward, god forsake country that groups Asia and Europe into one, there are seven continents. Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Antarctica, Europe, and Australia.

So the guy was right. South Africa is part of Europe.

What's going on in this thread? I only left this discussion for an hour.

Yakko please help me.

Geography Lesson


Getting back on topic...

This has failed time and time again though. Marketing money doesn't create sales.

Yes it does create sales. Would you like me to cite research on app sales?

 

[DaBoss]

Microsoft hates consumers, kinect sucks, always online, Sony loves you... Gamers are so dramatic. I'm gonna wait till they announce before I decide to buy one or not. The people in here talking about getting out the word to people not to buy lol. People will buy what they want you don't have to do sony's dirty work. Why do you even care what people purchase? Wow.

Because this screws consumers, which includes us. Why would you want your family or friend screwed over because of Microsoft's policy? If enough negative word of mouth spreads, then it would be possible that MS can change it, though unlikely. Why would you want to support this bullshit policy?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I'm guessing people will see the $300 price, see that you have to subscribe to XBL for x number of years, see it as a good deal because they would get XBL regardless

This. Is quite clever actually. Sony should do the same with PSN+, you know, something actually worth the subscription.

 

[coldfoot]

Germany, France, Brazil, South Africa, Australia.

WTF? do you really think Brazil, South Africa, and Australia are in EUROPE????
You must be joking.

 

[GoofsterStud]

This. Is quite clever actually. Sony should do the same with PSN+, you know, something actually worth the subscription.

The thing is the charge per month will be higher.

Look at the $99 contract xbox (baseline). It requires you pay $14.99 a month for 2 years.

It ends up being more expensive than premium xbox and paying 2 years at $6.99 (that is if you don't find additional deals).

People weren't stupid. The $99 Xbox with 2 years contract wasn't a big seller.