What's Roku? A new anime?
I kid, I kid
People that live in big cities and have no clue about other consoles and that always onlime DRM is shit.
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[RUMOR] Paul Thurrott: Xbox 720 is expensive: $500 or $300 for sub model, 5/21 Unveil
- Thread starter Hoo-doo
- Start date
What's Roku? A new anime?
People that live in big cities and have no clue about other consoles and that always onlime DRM is shit.
And in addition completely ignoring server issues on Microsoft's end. you know hey are going to happen, they always do.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Now this just pisses me off. He really needs to take the blinkers off.
Jadedx said:
They could easily announce the unveil date (confirming it exists) and then issue a carefully worded statement to deny this rumour if untrue.
Some TV streaming box. I'm not entirely sure. It streams Netflix and other services.
Oh, you're kidding. I really had no clue what it was up until a couple months ago.
plagiarize
Banned
if they're going to make the subscription model, they need it to be always online, so they can cut people off that stop paying.
they can put whatever cherry on top they want, but that's most likely the reason that the system has to ALWAYS be online, so they can make sure only people keeping up with their payments can use it.
BlazingDarkness
Member
:lol
What is it with these stupid comments?
Good for him for not having a shitty ISP, but my internet literally just switched off for no reason - my electricity doesn't do that.
megashock5
Member
It's not even just that. Let's take the non-connected folks out of the equation for a minute, as most of us have our consoles online.
Yes, my AppleTV box (or his Roku) is always connected, but I don't expect it to become a paperweight for any reason other than total hardware failure. I need a connection to download games to my phone or iPad - but I don't need a connection to check my "ownership" of those games, so they should work until I delete them.
It's been said numerous times, but I think the outrage (at least in my case) is not just the possible inconvenience of the required connection but the idea that the games I purchase legitimately may not work after a number of years due the online ownership check no longer being in place.
This may or may not be the case, but right now it's looking like a distinct possibility. If it turns out to be true, the only real way for me to voice my displeasure is to not purchase it - which is exactly what I plan to do in that scenario. I have other options as a consumer.
Are you going to buy one if these rumors are true?
Didn't know either. So, in essence, online streaming device needs to be online? So, yeah, (absolutely not) exactly like a 720... right?I had no clue about it until 5 minutes ago
DragonSworne
Banned
I don't understand why people give MS the benefit of the doubt that their servers will be up and running more reliably then a major ISP provider.
The outrage should be directed at being reliant on MS servers to play single player games, not that we need internet at all times... Because 9/10 the issue will be MS's fault then the ISP.
The outrage should be directed at being reliant on MS servers to play single player games, not that we need internet at all times... Because 9/10 the issue will be MS's fault then the ISP.
I do think the one twitter complaint that his family wouldn't be able to use it in a van on trips if internet was required is pretty funny. I totally get the argument that internet goes down, but come on.
PS4 also has 50% more shaders in the GPU, and both are of the same architecture, so it should equate to 50% more raw GPU power, assuming clocks are equal (and they can't be all that different). Also, the GDDR5 vs. 3 difference should give PS4 over double the memory bandwidth. Next Xbox will have ESRAM too, which will mitigate the performance gap somewhat, but it's still going to enormous.
It's much harder to compare the older generations where different architectures were being used, but now that it's off the shelf PC stuff it's very clear-cut. It will be very noticeable to hardcore gamers -- I don't see how they're going to justify pricing the same as PS4 early in the generation when the early adopters are going to really care about that.
Exactly. we have seen this again and again. It's also no just launch that has issues, they can always have have always popped up. If I can't play my SP game because some dumb server that I don't really need is not running is unacceptable.
Companies don't negotiate with terrorists.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
The worst news about all of this, outside Always On, is that this will be a Windows 8 trojan horse. Thus those rumors of up to 3 GB of ram being set aside for OS may very well be true.
Whiteshirt
Member
Hey the rumours could be false but literally everyone and every rumour is saying that this thing will be "always online". You've had a Microsoft employee have a melt-down on twitter about it, you've got Paul Thurrott calling this, you've got tons of rumours suggesting this, you've got EDGE claiming that its always online and they're at least somewhat sensible with their predictions considering they got the 8GB GDDR5 right.
They could opt out last minute but right now, its really not looking good. If they say "hey we're not having always online, hahaha fooled you", it's neither hilarious or exciting. Its the status quo, its what everyone expects from their console.
They could opt out last minute but right now, its really not looking good. If they say "hey we're not having always online, hahaha fooled you", it's neither hilarious or exciting. Its the status quo, its what everyone expects from their console.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Thurrott on console gamers in rural areas, 'let Sony have those guys.' :lol
Always Online isn't the issue.
Its the ONLINE ONLY thats the issue. You should not need a persistant internet connection to play a single player game. That's everything wrong with the gaming world.
Little does MS know that if they just allowed the Nextbox to play games without the need of a internet connection, This ENTIRE controversy goes away. Its not a hard decision. I dont get it
we.are.the.armada
Member
Yeah this is how I feel at the moment. Out of respect to the customer base, they need to be very clear about what this thing can do offline. No underhanded seller bullshit.
Even AT&T tells people that when their service ends/disconnects the phone can still use apps, play music, take photos, watch local content, play games, etc.
megashock5
Member
Particularly, if another company offered one that played movies without requiring such a connection.
Whiteshirt
Member
That's what I mean by "always online". Or has there been a shift in terms while I was away?
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
At this stage it would be too late to opt out I think. To make an Always Online system almost the make up and interface needs to be designed around that philosophy. If they truly believe in their vision then the bed was made a long time ago for this, and now they must confidently lay in it.
All I see is a slippery slope, assuming the rumors are true, whats to eventually stop them from turning your console into a paperweight when they decide to release a new one and discontinue support for the old one?
I'm fine with the idea of always on, always connected. I do draw the line at needing an Internet connection to play games.
I think it's so preposterous that it MUST be a misunderstanding somewhere along the line.
Oh well, not long now and we'll know.
Honestly, if it does turn out true, I think the outcry would be so massive after the announcement that Microsoft would have no choice but to change it.
I think it's so preposterous that it MUST be a misunderstanding somewhere along the line.
Oh well, not long now and we'll know.
Honestly, if it does turn out true, I think the outcry would be so massive after the announcement that Microsoft would have no choice but to change it.
BlazingDarkness
Member
'Always online' is just PR speak for 'online required', or 'only online'. MS will do everything in their power to make it out to be a good thing.
Its slight but from what Im reading on GAF. Always Online refers to the Nextbox being a social networking machine. Maintaing a connection to always send data whether On or Off.
The issue though is that the Nextbox only functions ONLINE ONLY, Where software needs to detect an internet connection or you have 3 minutes till shutdown.
Welcome to the dark ages
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Remeber, "Internet is awesome".
Pagusas
Elden Member
How much does the current "subsadized" 360 with subscription cost? I know the monthly cost for that is a lot higher than just a normal live subscription and in the end you end up paying at least a hundred more than you would pay.
I imagine any Next Xbox or PS4 subsidized subscription price wont just be the price of live or PSN, it will be a much higher monthly cost.
I imagine any Next Xbox or PS4 subsidized subscription price wont just be the price of live or PSN, it will be a much higher monthly cost.
Crazypanda_85
Member
Agreed. Even though the internet connections in the US are decent, they are not the best that they can be and until most of the infrastructure is redone (something that the President was trying to make happened), it will not be as good as in Europe. Plus, there's too many variables that can come into play with "always on" internet requirements. If one's internet is dodgy or someone loses their internet for one reason or another, they should be allowed to play the games they pay for. I play games on my PC and consoles but the problem with taking my PC on the road with me is sometimes not being able to find a WiFi spot to log into Steam on or have a constant internet connection for any of my Blizzard titles.
People who play games seriously on PC understand the perimeters of PC gaming and understand that some games require you to be online at all times. Most console gamers (or those who buy them for their children, nieces, nephews,etc,.) may not understand this and it could be a huge problem. When I use to work in consumer electronics at a few different stores, parents were asking me how to disable internet access on their child's tablet/ gaming console/etc,. They don't mind it being on when they are around but don't want it always connected.
For MS' sake, I hope this is pure rumor and not a mandatory thing. It could end up being a huge problem and the media fallout can be huge.
No.
This is a rumor and has not been confirmed. We don't know this yet. I'm not defending always online, as I think that would suck, but people are posting this as fact when we don't know this yet. If they said "internet required", that could still mean you need a connection to register a game (a la Steam), but could play it offline on the registered console. Technically it would be required, but only once. Let's wait and see before blowing up.
it is easy to be ignorant when you are Thurrott,
He sounds a lot like Adam Orth in his approach to this, to be honest. "I don't need offline mode so why should you need it?"
infinityBCRT
Member
BTW breaking news--- MS sold Mediaroom!
Wow. They must have some sort of new IPTV platform coming with Durango.
I wonder if Durango will even support Media Center.
Wow. They must have some sort of new IPTV platform coming with Durango.
I wonder if Durango will even support Media Center.
I have a feeling that these 'rural' areas' being discussed will (inadvertently) include emerging markets like India and Brazil. There are many lucrative markets that simply don't have an infrastructure reliable enough for such an ambitious idea.
So far the hubris of always online from good ol' Sweet Billy and Thurrott doesn't feel 'pro American' as it feels 'pro people living in cities opposed to people living in the sticks like animals' and it's just so myopic it almost feels like parody.
Kill Your Masters
Member
3 minutes, what the hell? Thats insane. When did this info fly in? The rumor mill is getting crazier by the day, if all turns out to be true then good luck MS selling that as a good thing. (actually wait, no luck in selling that)
Wishful thinking? Methinks you're the one wishing. Wishing that we weren't getting this same rumor every week. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Keep up the good fight.
we.are.the.armada
Member
Absolutely. In addition to this, I was living in Nagoya, Japan, with fucking awesome internet that was down for 5 minute spurts anywhere between 5PM and 2AM. It sucked being kicked offline during an MMO or w/e. Situation was pretty much the same while I was at university with the every now and then weak ass signal because so many people were getting online at certain times.
The quality of the ISP doesn't matter when issues intrinsic to simply being connected are going to happen to anybody, anywhere.
EA's stupid server just died on me again during Dead Space 3. Can't connect even after 3rd and 4th try. I can foresee good things happening for those who buy the console if this thing is true. I'd, however, stay the fuck away from this mess. As if getting "You can't purchase resources because you're disconnected from the server" isn't annoying enough.
sechsterangriff
Member
I think the comparisons to other "always connected" devices like phones, and hardware directly dependent on video streaming services are nothing but a fallacy.
Their primary functions depend solely on connectivity and it defines the device's purpose. The device's existence doesn't make any sense without it.
The primary function of a games console is to play games. It's a concept that at its core does not require connectivity. Don't confuse activation of a cd key/dd code with the need for a constant connection. Even most digital download game services offer you the option to play your games off-line. Some even allow you to back up your game data.
Imagine taking your console to a friend’s house who only uses a 3G/4G dongle or the downtime while changing ISPs. Server issues WILL happen, you don't need to be a network engineer to able to understand this. Or simply wanting to play some "to be classics" in a few years and not being able to.
For the purpose of playing a single player game connectivity should not be a requirement, but an enabler of additional optional features that may enrich the experience. You should be able to play your games anytime you want and not be dependent on some "granted permission".
I honestly feel that much more than DLC, Fremium, network passes and whatnot, this the most serious issue the gaming community will be facing in the future.
Their primary functions depend solely on connectivity and it defines the device's purpose. The device's existence doesn't make any sense without it.
The primary function of a games console is to play games. It's a concept that at its core does not require connectivity. Don't confuse activation of a cd key/dd code with the need for a constant connection. Even most digital download game services offer you the option to play your games off-line. Some even allow you to back up your game data.
Imagine taking your console to a friend’s house who only uses a 3G/4G dongle or the downtime while changing ISPs. Server issues WILL happen, you don't need to be a network engineer to able to understand this. Or simply wanting to play some "to be classics" in a few years and not being able to.
For the purpose of playing a single player game connectivity should not be a requirement, but an enabler of additional optional features that may enrich the experience. You should be able to play your games anytime you want and not be dependent on some "granted permission".
I honestly feel that much more than DLC, Fremium, network passes and whatnot, this the most serious issue the gaming community will be facing in the future.
Kill Your Masters
Member
Wait so DS3 requires a connection even for SP?
Don't expect this will be any different on the PS4 though. 3rd parties will push always-on on all devices, console makers will allow it so they don't lose the support, pirates will have the most comfy experience in the end :/
It's so weird to see Thurrott going off about how much larger this hypothetical market Microsoft are supposedly chasing is, and bringing up the Roku as an example.
The Roku hasn't, and never will, sell a 10th of the units that the Xbox 360 has. And it's sales outside the US are statistically virtually zero.
It sort of indirectly proves everyone's point to him, but he's too blind to see it.
The Roku hasn't, and never will, sell a 10th of the units that the Xbox 360 has. And it's sales outside the US are statistically virtually zero.
It sort of indirectly proves everyone's point to him, but he's too blind to see it.
New thread worthy? Microsoft have sold off Mediaroom, their IPTV business and have said that "Xbox will be 100% of our consumer TV focus"
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_blog/archive/2013/04/08/mediaroom-and-our-tv-journey.aspx
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_blog/archive/2013/04/08/mediaroom-and-our-tv-journey.aspx
rakkadakka
Member
Over the course of 5 years, I can count on my hand the number of times Live has caused me an issue re: connectivity.
Does that help?
Wickerbasket
Member
New thread for new news, so I'd say yes.
If you want to buy resources yeah. There are two ways you can do this, by using the dockets you earn within the game (via your search bots) or using your real money. EA being greedy decides to combine the two into one shop, possibly hoping that you'll be tempted to just spend real money instead of relying on the bots to find dockets for you.
But often the server just won't go up at all. This wouldn't happen if they actually make the shop offline/within the game (aka separating it from the online shop where you have to use real money). So more often than not I can't be bothered trying to re-connect to the online server and just try to conserve ammo.
Touché!