• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Rumor: Zelda coming to both Wii U + NX, choose between male/female link, VA for NPCs

Who would you like to be the female character option in Zelda U?


Results are only viewable after voting.

diaspora

Member
I actually wouldn't want the male option to be removed. There's like one game I've ever played (sans character customizing ones) to memory that lets me play as my race, so keeping the male one in addition to female is the best of both worlds and doesn't contradict the lore, story, or even general theme of the series.

A lot of people here need to learn how to read. I never demanded that the franchise remain static. I'm saying that they've set up a story where a female goddess and male hero are reincarnated every time evil poses an existential threat to their world. That is a foundational element of the Zelda story. I didn't make it up. The creators built the franchise around this framework and I am open to seeing if they can find a creative way around it.

But a decision to change something that fundamental, especially when it is one of the only coherent elements left of this franchise's lore, should not be made simply to appease the current whims of the internet mob. Being guided by societal pressures like this is misguided and against artistic integrity, regardless of what the pressures are, who agrees/disagrees with them, or when they occur - especially since these fashionable crusades typically, as is the case here, accomplish the opposite of what their proprietors think they do. And of course we can only assume the creators' motivations in this case, but you're welcome to present a logical case for motivations other than the ones I presented if you truly believe one exists. Or, you can continue to pull my thoughts out of their context and respond with half-baked, accusatory fragments. Either way is fine.

Actually it isn't. The gender of goddess' hero isn't foundational to the story.
 
Look at these white features:

Amazing.

latest
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
What exactly is wrong with seeing Link as an established character? Is it really that hard to accept that some people don't want to see him changed?

What exactly are we losing by keeping Link a blonde elf boy?
To me personally, it's saying that in Hyrule throughout the vast history spanning thousands of years, when a real hero is needed, it must always a boy. Makes Hyrule pretty sucky to me.
 

Fencedude

Member
What exactly is wrong with seeing Link as an established character? Is it really that hard to accept that some people don't want to see him changed?

What exactly are we losing by keeping Link a blonde elf boy?

Representation? A chance to try something new?

What are you losing by other people having the CHOICE to play as a blonde elf girl, precisely?
 

Mael

Member
A lot of people here need to learn how to read. I never demanded that the franchise remain static. I'm saying that they've set up a story where a female goddess and male hero are reincarnated every time evil poses an existential threat to their world. That is a foundational element of the Zelda story. I didn't make it up. The creators built the franchise around this framework and I am open to seeing if they can find a creative way around it.

Legend of Zelda games haven't even mentioned Hylia beyond the Lake and the shield before Skyward Sword was released.
The goddess nature of Zelda was never even hinted at before, she was just the holder of the Triforce of Wisdom starting at OoT.
The only framework they had in Zelda from the beginning is Link saving Princess Zelda from Pig King Ganon.
What you're saying isn't even in Historia.
 

Fencedude

Member
A lot of people here need to learn how to read. I never demanded that the franchise remain static. I'm saying that they've set up a story where a female goddess and male hero are reincarnated every time evil poses an existential threat to their world. That is a foundational element of the Zelda story. I didn't make it up. The creators built the franchise around this framework and I am open to seeing if they can find a creative way around it.

Guess what

Not everything has to revolve around heteronormativity
 
Why does Link have to be a "male main of roughly similar appearance", precisely?

Like, why is Link being "male" so important, considering that this would be an entirely new "Link" and not one of the ELEVEN existing ones?

How does this make sense? Why are the other three options fine, but the other one not, when it is the one that actually makes the most sense and requires the least amount of actual effort to implement?


Because "just" making a female Link is insulting to all people of races other than the one link appears to be: It says inclusivity of White females is more important than your race.

If you're going to change the character Link significantly (which is what a female "link" is doing, because really, that's no longer link as we know him), they might as well do it properly and have a full character creator and not just half ass it for all the people of other races/skin colours/etc. who deserve more representation just as much as white females.
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
You're asking me to map out something that developed in my mind over the better part of 23 years from the time I was 6 and first played Link's Awakening. This wasn't something I deliberately decided upon but simply formed in my mind and grew from there, so sorry if I'm not specific enough for you. And again people place different levels of importance on aspects of characters. Things I find unimportant may be critical to your perspective of what makes a character, while things I find important you see as irrelevant. I won't feign that there is a clear logic to this. Especially in a case like this where there is often a lack of traditional character development due to the minimal narrative structure of the series.

For me the way Link reacts to the world around him and how different encounters and scenes in each game play out always felt like the same character to me. Just different circumstances. His background almost never plays a role in his character development. It's a minor detail in the story and his characterization, at best, as the result is always the same. And I'll admit he doesn't have a lot of traditional characterization, but it's always been enough for me to see him as independent of me and consistent across titles.

The way he emotes since OoT has really solidified him for me. Constantly reacting to whats going on around him and often in ways that I would not, showing affection and other emotions towards characters that I don't, or at least not in the same way as me. Across each game every Link feels very consistent with his greater character. Brave, naive, curious and transparent to name a few. Swap out OoT Link with TP Link and they would react the same way to the situations, characters and events they are presented with. Swap out MM Link and WW Link and the same thing would occur. The specific origins and motivations that propel them on their journey are different, but everything else about them remains the same. His character and personality, what little there may be, is not dependent on any specific game, background or familial situation. His gender and general appearance also play into this image of him, the latter less so for me, even if they don't have any significant bearing on his character. It's simply come be a part of who he is to me, no different than any other character.

All that and likely a lot more I'm not thinking of factored into Link becoming a defined and established character for me. Sorry if that's not good enough for you or doesn't mesh with your sensibilities. It's also only a part, but a major one, as to why I personally don't care to see a Female Link. My opinion on the series as a whole and where I would like it to go in the future, my view of Zelda as a character and other things also play a big part into that as well.
OK, now out of all those characteristics, why does maleness factor in so much? A girl can be all those things you listed. She could react the exact same way.
 

Mael

Member
well, speciesist. being able to pick gerudo or zora would be rad. it could change the way you sequence the dungeons based on innate abilities.

That you then have to compensate with items, meaning that even the items you get are different based on race would be super interesting.
It's actually designing 4 games with just hylian/gerudo/zora/goron as a choice but it would make for a very interesting game.
Basically by the end of the game you're actually able to do the same things will all the races but for some race it's based on an item or innate skill.
That's actually a very cool idea, better than a simple hero even.
 

diaspora

Member
Because "just" making a female Link is insulting to all people of races other than the one link appears to be: It says inclusivity of White females is more important than your race.

That's astronomically insane, the inclusion of a female option doesn't take away from the fact that I can still play as a guy even if it's not a brown one.
 

MMaRsu

Banned
But if Nintendo makes a new character they will complain because "But She's not Link, we wanted Link, this is sexist because she's not Link".

They only want Link to be a female. They don't care if that destroys one of the most iconic characters of the industry and the lore Nintendo managed to stablish few years ago with the Hyrule Historia and Skyward Sword.

Perhaps sadly "they" will. Even if I dont know who "they" are, I'm fine with the industry changing to suit people's preferences. Im not fine with current iconic characters being changed to fit in with some peoples desires to play as a different gender.

Like I said, I wouldnt want a female version of Mario either, and I think from my personal perspective Link is not just the green tunic and the hat. He is the hero of time.

And although if they designed a new character to be the Hero of Time Id be fine with that. But dont make it a palette swap. That wouldnt be good for the story either.

We also dont need choices to customize Link's character. This isnt Skyrim people. You are playing with a defined hero.
 

Mael

Member
Because "just" making a female Link is insulting to all people of races other than the one link appears to be: It says inclusivity of White females is more important than your race.

So to avoid insulting all these people, it's best to just do white male and conserve the status quo forever.
It's the only way to be respectful.
 
That's astronomically insane, the inclusion of a female option doesn't take away from the fact that I can still play as a guy even if it's not a brown one.

Ok then. Why do white females deserve the representation more than black male/females?

So to avoid insulting all these people, it's best to just do white male and conserve the status quo forever.
It's the only way to be respectful.

Absolutely. That's exactly why I suggested having a full character creator. Oh hang on, that's the exact opposite of what you just said.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Well if you've played the Zelda games your actions caused the banishment and eventual genocide of the Gerudo race.

Congrats. You're all racists.
 

diaspora

Member
So to avoid insulting all these people, it's best to just do white male and conserve the status quo forever.
It's the only way to be respectful.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that had to question wtf that was supposed to mean.

Ok then. Why do white females deserve the representation more than black male/females?

They do have representation by playing as their gender. I'm not white but I still get to play as my gender. It's more inclusive as a result.
 

Fencedude

Member
Because "just" making a female Link is insulting to all people of races other than the one link appears to be: It says inclusivity of White females is more important than your race.

Oh please

Don't even fucking start with this bullshit.

You don't get to go "You can't change a White Male Character into a White Female Character because thats disrespectful to all other races!" When you are arguing against the change at all.

There are lots of issues with representation in gaming beyond just male/female (trans identities, sexual orientation, race etc) but you don't actually give a shit. You are just as against Link being a White Female as you are against them being a Black Trans Lesbian. So cut it out now.
 
That you then have to compensate with items, meaning that even the items you get are different based on race would be super interesting.
It's actually designing 4 games with just hylian/gerudo/zora/goron as a choice but it would make for a very interesting game.
Basically by the end of the game you're actually able to do the same things will all the races but for some race it's based on an item or innate skill.
That's actually a very cool idea, better than a simple hero even.

fuuuuuuck. now I'm unreasonably excited to play a zelda game that will likely never exist.
 
Question: Who here has played the Zelda games?

The only Nintendo-developed ones I haven't finished are Tri Force Heroes and the Ancient Stone Tablets BS-Satellaview game.

I've completed the rest 100%, with the exception of:

- the rings in the Oracle games
- the Nintendo Gallery/Tingle Tuner stuff in Wind Waker
- the fishing games in Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask 3D
- Rollgoal in Twilight Princess

I am a rabid collector and have gathered pretty much every piece of Zelda hardware since the Phantom Hourglass limited edition DS (with the exception of the ALBW 3DS XL).

Despite this, I'm not afraid to say I'm disillusioned with the series and wish they could do a lot of things better to make the games more competitive against other adventure/RPG games.
 

mStudios

Member
How many people are going under suicide watch if there is a Female link?

How many people are going under suicide watch if there is not a Female link?
 
Oh please

Don't even fucking start with this bullshit.

You don't get to go "You can't change a White Male Character into a White Female Character because thats disrespectful to all other races!" When you are arguing against the change at all.

There are lots of issues with representation in gaming beyond just male/female (trans identities, sexual orientation, race etc) but you don't actually give a shit. You are just as against Link being a White Female as you are against them being a Black Trans Lesbian. So cut it out now.

Here's every post of min in the thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=14055130
Now you can stop putting words in my mouth, thanks.

If they are going to make a change for inclusivity reasons, they might as well go the path that allows the maximum amount of that inclusivity, which is a character creator, not simply a gender toggle.
 

Fencedude

Member
Like I said, I wouldnt want a female version of Mario either, and I think from my personal perspective Link is not just the green tunic and the hat. He is the hero of time.

So what you are saying is...that a girl could never be the hero of time? (also all Link's aren't the Hero of Time anyway...)
 

Mael

Member
Absolutely. That's exactly why I suggested "doing it properly" as having a full character creator. Oh hang on, that's the exact opposite of what you just said.

Heh between "women are poultry" guy and keep the status quo because there's no black people...
Of course a full on character creation is the best option.
If we can't have that a female toggle isn't the end of the world either.
 

Morts

Member
Has there been any developments on this rumor in the past four days or are we just reprising the girl Link thread again?
 

MMaRsu

Banned
So to avoid insulting all these people, it's best to just do white male and conserve the status quo forever.
It's the only way to be respectful.

Well it is a defined hero. Do you want a black Mario as well for instance? Just being curious.
 

diaspora

Member
Introducing a female toggle but not a race chooser isn't insulting to people of colour. Introducing a race chooser, then taking it away would be insulting.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
"Do you want to play as a boy or a girl?"

- Boy

Congratulations, now you don't have to see a female Link.

We've been over this a hundreds time now over multiple threads. It's not a matter of him being a boy, but as a defined character, that I don't see as being transmutable in that way. Same as any other established character. To make his gender a choice would reduce him from an individual of his own to just player character in my mind. That is my issue and I'm well aware it's mine and not everyone's opinion.

But no one is saying you can't play as male link (ok thats not true, personally I think there should only be a female Link in the game, but I'm willing to compromise with the choice).

That being said, you really should evaluate why the status of Link's genitals would be such a huge trauma to your impression of the character. What is it about Link that is inherent to his gender that you identify with so much? And have you ever considered that FULLY HALF THE PLANET barely gets that sort of identification with any significant number of leads that are like them?

To your aside I too would prefer there be no choice if they are set on making a Female Link. I do no not like the half measure of a choice, as well as my statement above. I have no issue with playing or relating to a female character and I don't think anyone else should either. I very much would like one in the series, but simply not a Female Link.

My perspective is rather complicated and to many probably contradictory. My issue is that my viewpoint of Link is as an established and singular character, which is what is important to me, not his gender. I would no sooner change his gender than I would any other fictional character's, male or female. I simply do not find that course of action to be compelling and worthwhile in almost every case, though I fully understand other people have a different opinion on that. My most recent post was just attempting to explain why I came to view Link as a single character and not adherent to the Lore which technically states there is 11 Links.

OK, now out of all those characteristics, why does maleness factor in so much? A girl can be all those things you listed. She could react the exact same way.

See above.
 

Mael

Member
Well it is a defined hero. Do you want a black Mario as well for instance? Just being curious.

I can play with a Mii in nsmbu so I don't think that's an issue.
Perhaps sadly "they" will. Even if I dont know who "they" are, I'm fine with the industry changing to suit people's preferences. Im not fine with current iconic characters being changed to fit in with some peoples desires to play as a different gender.

Like I said, I wouldnt want a female version of Mario either, and I think from my personal perspective Link is not just the green tunic and the hat. He is the hero of time.

And although if they designed a new character to be the Hero of Time Id be fine with that. But dont make it a palette swap. That wouldnt be good for the story either.
So what you're saying is "Fuck Wind waker and especially fuck Twilight Princess"?
because these 2 games absolutely do not feature the Hero of Time.
 

Fencedude

Member
Well it is a defined hero. Do you want a black Mario as well for instance? Just being curious.

You could very easily have a singificantly darker skinned Mario than is generally depicted, yes.

But Mario is more like Samus than like Link. And, very few people actively identify with Mario the way many people (judging by this thread) do with Link. So for Mario adding playable female characters (which they've been doing) is a perfectly valid way to start adding diversity.
 

MMaRsu

Banned
I can play with a Mii in nsmbu so I don't think that's an issue.

So what you're saying is "Fuck Wind waker and especially fuck Twilight Princess"?
because these 2 games absolutely do not feature the Hero of Time.

You didnt answer my question.

And to your second question, no not at all. If thats what you gather from my post then so be it.
 
Top Bottom