Xenoblade Chronicles was one of Nintendo's best voice acting efforts in recent years. So if NoA is staying non-union, I'd prefer to go with NoE since they seem to be more willing to seek out the right people for the role (hell, they got Jenna Coleman as Melia, that says a lot).
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Rumor: Zelda coming to both Wii U + NX, choose between male/female link, VA for NPCs
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
It is truly amazing how many dudes completely lose their shit when you suggest that they have to relate to someone who's not also a straight white male.
Like, having a female Link is a "slippery slope" that could result in "forcing artists to focus on appeasing mobs" yet somehow having a male Link doesn't do this? Because Male Link sprung pure from the minds of his creator, and was not male solely because most protagonists were male, and in fact continue to be male.
This is, of course, bullshit.
If every videogame released for the next 3 years was required to have a female protagonist, it would STILL leave male protagonists as historically dominant in the medium, by a hilariously absurd amount.
This same thing comes up in regards to movies. People feeling the need to express how odd it is that Rogue One has a female protagonist, right after The Force Awakens had one. As if its bizarre to have more than a token female in a franchise.
The insistance that if people want Link to be female they should be fine with Samus being turned into a male, also demonstrate a lack of understanding (or intentional misunderstanding) of what hte issue is. The point is that women and girls are SO INCREDIBLY UNDERREPRESENTED in this medium, and that men and boys just as over represented, that suggesting changing a female protagonist it male is completely different.
If there was a 50/50 split between male and female protagonists in games, this wouldn't be an issue, but since there obviously isn't, it is.
Now, if you are so wrapped up in the idea of Link as a male, that you cannot handle the very IDEA of even a CHOICE of Link being female, maybe you should examine why that is.
Also maybe you should try consuming some media centered around female characters. You might find that you get a new perspective on things.
Like, having a female Link is a "slippery slope" that could result in "forcing artists to focus on appeasing mobs" yet somehow having a male Link doesn't do this? Because Male Link sprung pure from the minds of his creator, and was not male solely because most protagonists were male, and in fact continue to be male.
This is, of course, bullshit.
If every videogame released for the next 3 years was required to have a female protagonist, it would STILL leave male protagonists as historically dominant in the medium, by a hilariously absurd amount.
This same thing comes up in regards to movies. People feeling the need to express how odd it is that Rogue One has a female protagonist, right after The Force Awakens had one. As if its bizarre to have more than a token female in a franchise.
The insistance that if people want Link to be female they should be fine with Samus being turned into a male, also demonstrate a lack of understanding (or intentional misunderstanding) of what hte issue is. The point is that women and girls are SO INCREDIBLY UNDERREPRESENTED in this medium, and that men and boys just as over represented, that suggesting changing a female protagonist it male is completely different.
If there was a 50/50 split between male and female protagonists in games, this wouldn't be an issue, but since there obviously isn't, it is.
Now, if you are so wrapped up in the idea of Link as a male, that you cannot handle the very IDEA of even a CHOICE of Link being female, maybe you should examine why that is.
Also maybe you should try consuming some media centered around female characters. You might find that you get a new perspective on things.
Same, I'd really like a game where Zelda is the main playable character
It's the same as people who want to play OoT with female Link.
Tough titties, that Link is male so that's not happening.
Samus is a defined character unless Sakamoto decide that she needs a sex change (which he's not above of doing so you may get your wish) that's not happening.
There's nothing in Legend of zelda lore that precludes a new unknown yet Link from being female unlike Samus which we know about.
Otherwise you can also boot up Metroid Blast if you're that harmstrung on playing male Samus.
What you want doesn't really matter, Samus is a singular person who's a woman much like how TP Link and WW Link are both men. Nobody's suggesting any of these existing characters change. If you leave the current Metroid timeline you fuck every hanging plotline sideways.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Link looks like a weird cat in Smash, and I don't know if I hate it
AcademicSaucer
Member
Yep, every game should just have miis .
A Link to the Past
Banned
But you don't
LegendofLex
Member
This character originated in a game from a very different genre than those examples, and the creator of the character thinks of him in terms that are native to that genre.
Adam_Roman
Member
I don't really care to argue, but my reasoning for supporting a choice between a female and male Link is that it's completely possible without feeling shoehorned for political correctness or whatnot. Who says the Hero of Time has to be reincarnated into a boy named Link? You can change your name in the game from Link to anything from Adam to flat-out gibberish. If you can choose your name, what's the big deal in choosing your gender? It's not like people are proposing a character creator. And if you don't want to play as female Link, you don't have to.
StrapOnFetus
Banned
If he wants to play male Samus, tell him to buy Federation Force ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Nothing. Which is the point. Which is why the Metroid comparisons are so idiotic. There's a new hero in most games with their own story and arc whereas the entire Metroid series at this point has focused entirely on Samus' personal journey and even in FedForce's case her legacy in a spinoff.
To be fair the side against inclusion isn't making any sense beyond that.
Just as soon as people stop being sexist?
Like, the problem is that the people are being sexist (consciously or unconsciously), not that they are being accused of it. They are being accused of being sexist...because they are being sexist.
Don't like being accused of being sexist? STOP BEING SEXIST
SenorArdilla
Member
Why do anime characters look white?
If you want a male Samus, collate with kindred spirits and create an online petition that shows the creators the demand for such a thing; similar to the Internet fervor for a female Link. You probably won't get your wish, because male space marines/bounty hunters are not in short supply, but that's the way you'd have to go about producing that particular desire.
But if you're bringing up male Samus or male Chun Li as some retort to the possibility of a female Link - throwing up your hands in mock exasperation that character purity is no longer being adhered to - understand your position is not solvent. Representation is important. and while nothing is being forced onto these developers, the demand for wider female and minority representation in games is great.
But if you're bringing up male Samus or male Chun Li as some retort to the possibility of a female Link - throwing up your hands in mock exasperation that character purity is no longer being adhered to - understand your position is not solvent. Representation is important. and while nothing is being forced onto these developers, the demand for wider female and minority representation in games is great.
I mean, you could make a metroid game where you star as another protagonist fighting off metroids or metroid-related shenanigans. But to say it's a male samus is idiotic unless, in the story, they write some dumb thing about how they took samus's DNA and used it to clone a male version of herself. You think Other M had a shit storm? Whooooo buddy.
Can you be sexist if the concept of sex is foreign to you?
They're afraid it'll either ruin the story, the writing, the dialog or close off potential plot elements which revolve around gender. :/
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Well in Link to the Past he also got a red and blue tunic. And in Spirit Tracks I was totally rocking a conductor suit.
Well I mean it's this bizarre thing where people are establishing their headcanon as an argument against how it works within the existing lore. Almost like that weird period where someone kept saying Samus was trans when it was (extremely rudely) debunked.
I guess SA-X was a genderless clone? But I mean even then the post-Samus comparison doesn't really work since the entire series until this point has been predicated on being about her journey and adventures whereas Zelda is about different peoples journeys.
Come on! Gerudos are worse they only see males as either sex objects or King!
No inbetween or anything.
The trans Samus theory is based on an interview so there's at least a basis on this that is not completely a total misrepresentation without any source you can point to.
Godzilla's Left Toe
Member
Who is exactly against inclusion most people are saying have a female protagonist just have it be Zelda or Linkle or a new character.
There is no reason that "Link" can't be female.
The entire setup of the series makes this one of the few times you can just genderswap the protagonist and have it make complete sense AND not even affect any previous games!
Hellwarden
Member
I'd rather play as Linkle than play as a female Link to be honest.
I feel like Nintendo could do more both gameplay and story wise with Linkle in a mainline Zelda game than they could do with a female Link.
That said, I wouldn't object to playing as a female Link. I just don't think it would be interesting.
I feel like Nintendo could do more both gameplay and story wise with Linkle in a mainline Zelda game than they could do with a female Link.
That said, I wouldn't object to playing as a female Link. I just don't think it would be interesting.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Sure some of us are.
I only see a few reasonable approaches to this situation:
A) Status quo and apparent existing lore kept. Link is a male main character of roughly similar appearence, or
B) A existing female character, likely Zelda, as the main character instead of link, or
C) A full on character creator with at minimum lots of race options as well as gender.
Half assing it and just adding a white female as a player character option, which is what I suspect a lot of people mean when they say "female link", would be incredibly short sighted, excluding again a lot of people. Given the only reason to have the option is an argument that it improves inclusivity in the first place...
A Link to the Past
Banned
In ALttP though, you would go through nine dungeons before your tunic changed (10 if you hate the Ice Palace and did Misery Mire first). Also, those tunics are so particularly striking because the green Tunic is so identifiable for Link that changing the colour stands out more.
I'm struggling to think of -any- instance in any medium where fans clamored for an inverse Rule 63.
Why does Link have to be a "male main of roughly similar appearance", precisely?
Like, why is Link being "male" so important, considering that this would be an entirely new "Link" and not one of the ELEVEN existing ones?
How does this make sense? Why are the other three options fine, but the other one not, when it is the one that actually makes the most sense and requires the least amount of actual effort to implement?
You're asking me to map out something that developed in my mind over the better part of 23 years from the time I was 6 and first played Link's Awakening. This wasn't something I deliberately decided upon but simply formed in my mind and grew from there, so sorry if I'm not specific enough for you. And again people place different levels of importance on aspects of characters. Things I find unimportant may be critical to your perspective of what makes a character, while things I find important you see as irrelevant. I won't feign that there is a clear logic to this. Especially in a case like this where there is often a lack of traditional character development due to the minimal narrative structure of the series.
For me the way Link reacts to the world around him and how different encounters and scenes in each game play out always felt like the same character to me. Just different circumstances. His background almost never plays a role in his character development. It's a minor detail in the story and his characterization, at best, as the result is always the same. And I'll admit he doesn't have a lot of traditional characterization, but it's always been enough for me to see him as independent of me and consistent across titles.
The way he emotes since OoT has really solidified him for me. Constantly reacting to whats going on around him and often in ways that I would not, showing affection and other emotions towards characters that I don't, or at least not in the same way as me. Across each game every Link feels very consistent with his greater character. Brave, naive, curious and transparent to name a few. Swap out OoT Link with TP Link and they would react the same way to the situations, characters and events they are presented with. Swap out MM Link and WW Link and the same thing would occur. The specific origins and motivations that propel them on their journey are different, but everything else about them remains the same. His character and personality, what little there may be, is not dependent on any specific game, background or familial situation. His gender and general appearance also play into this image of him, the latter less so for me, even if they don't have any significant bearing on his character. It's simply come be a part of who he is to me, no different than any other character.
All that and likely a lot more I'm not thinking of factored into Link becoming a defined and established character for me. Sorry if that's not good enough for you or doesn't mesh with your sensibilities. It's also only a part, but a major one, as to why I personally don't care to see a Female Link. My opinion on the series as a whole and where I would like it to go in the future, my view of Zelda as a character and other things also play a big part into that as well.
LegendofLex
Member
This is a problematic suggestion when you start thinking about how that approach would impact future games:
- Do they all let you choose between playing as Link and Zelda/Linkle? Wouldn't that mean that the female character is always second-string compared to the still-male Link who is the real main character?
- Is Zelda/Linkle going to always be the main character going forward? Or is she just going to be the main character in games where Link isn't the main character? Won't that effectively mean those games are spin-offs of the Link games?
- If you want to play as a girl, do you not have the same abilities as Link because you're playing as a different character? Does this mean that the only option for people who want to play as a girl is to play as a character who doesn't offer the same gameplay as Link? Or would these different female characters function exactly like Link does? If that's the case, why not just make them a female Link option?
"Do you want to play as a boy or a girl?"
- Boy
Congratulations, now you don't have to see a female Link.
I think the real issue is that they're complaining about him changing and them losing something when according to the original rumor there's no reason they'd have to ever experience the change when playing the game.
Always-honest
Banned
NOOOOOO, before you know it these.... women... (bleeeghh) are running the country, stealing our jobs, etc. Don't take this so lightly.
Respect the cock. And tame the cunt! Nooo, you will not control me! Nooo, you will not take my soul! Noo, you will not win this game!
something, something, might as well play as a cuccoo
But no one is saying you can't play as male link (ok thats not true, personally I think there should only be a female Link in the game, but I'm willing to compromise with the choice).
That being said, you really should evaluate why the status of Link's genitals would be such a huge trauma to your impression of the character. What is it about Link that is inherent to his gender that you identify with so much? And have you ever considered that FULLY HALF THE PLANET barely gets that sort of identification with any significant number of leads that are like them?
That wouldn't be changed if people could choose Link a blond elf girl too.
A Link to the Past
Banned
No one is disputing your right to keep Link in a certain fashion, people are disputing the idea that your preferences to not have an optional piece of content should be prioritized more than giving that content to people.
A lot of people here need to learn how to read. I never demanded that the franchise remain static. I'm saying that they've set up a story where a female goddess and male hero are reincarnated every time evil poses an existential threat to their world. That is a foundational element of the Zelda story. I didn't make it up. The creators built the franchise around this framework and I am open to seeing if they can find a creative way around it.
But a decision to change something that fundamental, especially when it is one of the only coherent elements left of this franchise's lore, should not be made simply to appease the current whims of the internet mob. Being guided by societal pressures like this is misguided and against artistic integrity, regardless of what the pressures are, who agrees/disagrees with them, or when they occur - especially since these fashionable crusades typically, as is the case here, accomplish the opposite of what their proprietors think they do. And of course we can only assume the creators' motivations in this case, but you're welcome to present a logical case for motivations other than the ones I presented if you truly believe one exists. Or, you can continue to pull my thoughts out of their context and respond with half-baked, accusatory fragments. Either way is fine.
There isn't really anything inherently male in Link's appearance to begin with so what status quo are we talking about? It's like Samus hairline, it's utterly irrelevant to the lore or the games.
You mostly never explore any romance to begin with.
Considering Zelda roots are in Role Playing Games, a character creation tool would be the correct path forward.
Making a "Linkle" is kinda demeaning because really is there anything inherently male in swinging a sword, throwing bombs, exploring the countryside and solving puzzles?
the argument we have seen in the last 2 pages is really that having a female choice for Legend of zelda is not ok because link is male and that can't change because "reasons".
Do you think they are also racist because they don't want Link to be a Gerudo girl?
LegendofLex
Member
astrogamer
Member
He's hylian which is essentially white in the Zelda universe. Aside from Telma is Twilight Princess, I don't think there are other races in hylian society. The Gerudo (closest thing to black in Zelda universe and the only species that are known to be able to produce babies with Hylians) live by themselves in the desert. I'm pretty sure they die out in the Wind Waker timeline and the original series timeline and I guess they integrate into hylian society in Twilight Princess. So, it is possible for Link to be Gerudo but, typically Gerudo guys are the king of Gerudo and are likely to become Ganondorf
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