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Rumor: Zelda coming to both Wii U + NX, choose between male/female link, VA for NPCs

Who would you like to be the female character option in Zelda U?


Results are only viewable after voting.

GRW810

Member
Looks like Emily Rogers has now protected her account. Why can't sit still on social media for five minutes? On there, off there, protected account, unprotected account. I feel like she's the queen of online drama sometimes. Regardless of the accuracy of her rumours and news, it's undeniable that she loves attention.

Also, no to female Link, yes to a brand new female character. I feel like the female gender deserves more in terms of recognition than to be tacked onto a popular male character. It would be a lot more interesting, original and representative to have a brand new character developed. Whether you choose that female character over Link or you play as both at various parts of the game or whatever.

Absolutely no qualms about the lead character being female, I don't mind having a choice other than Link. I just think an introduced female character should be a new character.
 
Looks like Emily Rogers has now protected her account. Why can't sit still on social media for five minutes? On there, off there, protected account, unprotected account. I feel like she's the queen of online drama sometimes. Regardless of the accuracy of her rumours and news, it's undeniable that she loves attention.

When the two halves of your personal brand are that you're a reliable consultant and a reliable source for inside information, perception is everything.

1. Your statement in this context can only be made out of true prejudice (i.e. only a white male could agree with my positions). Also, I’ve enjoyed all manner of creative works with all manner of characters without letting their gender, race, or species affect my ability to receive what their creators offered through them. That’s how people should be, and more easily could be, if not for the forces that promote the superficial nonsense that I’m arguing against here.

That's not precisely what's being said.

What's being said is that when white males living in Western cultures already enjoy broad representation among protagonists in most kinds of stories in Western culture, they can't really have an accurate frame of reference for what not having this kind of representation means for non-whites or non-males, and as such our commentary is and always will be lacking in perspective.

That kind of lack of representation in media is not something we can directly experience, and so we have no authority on what the experience is like, whether or how it should be addressed, etc.

It's rather convenient that the people who already experience the most representation as protagonists in media are the ones who profess that the impact of representation in media is minimal and not really harmful to anyone.

2. Mostly agreed, but a female Link likely forces story limitations within this game and retroactive mythology changes for the entire franchise, which is unnecessary and almost certainly detrimental.

- A male-only Link also forces the exact same kinds of story limitations.

- There isn't a single piece of the mythos that changes if you introduce a female Link, since it's not like a character within the mythos who has been referred to as male will suddenly be referred to as female. It'll be a new character within the mythos who just takes on a particular role that recurs across multiple characters already: that of legendary hero.

3. After 30 years of Link being male, why would he suddenly, in 2016 when this kind of superficial nonsense just happens to be fashionable, become female? Are you saying this is purely a creative decision that took them 30 years to imagine? Is this such a unique nugget of creative thought that it would take teams of devoted minds working for three decades to make it a reality? Of course not.

Even a superficial look at Nintendo's corporate culture reveals that they generally operate in a very conservative manner when it comes to understanding and adapting to what's going on in the broader marketplace.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/syst...rporate-culture-part-of-the-problem-31806640/

This is purely a ham-handed reaction to the kind of misguided social pressures that well-meaning people are mindlessly succumbing to right now. Whether or not the creators made the decision on their own is irrelevant. The motivation is misguided regardless. This is anti-creativity because it is a slippery slope that increasingly forces artists to focus on preemptively appeasing various and endless mobs rather than having the true creative freedom to follow only their vision without distraction.

You know what else forces artists to focus on preemptively appeasing the public?

The fact that the games don't get made if the artists don't get paid.

Video game companies are businesses. They live or die by their ability to please customers. This is by design, not by accident.

If artists want full control over their creative vision, there are non-commercial avenues for making games.

5. What is gained, or rather, preserved, is consistency with the rules of the Zelda universe that we have been led to accept. If those rules had always included a female option and thus the maleness of Link had not been interwoven into the story and reinforced for 30 years, then of course there would be no problem at all.

Tradition is not a sufficient reason for exclusion.

6. Maybe I could explain the point better. The point is that the whole concept of needing to have yourself validated by the degree to which you conform to superficial images is, without exception, pure damaging foolishness. This teaches a little girl that her self-worth is determined by something or someone external, and further that it is based on superficial aspects of herself.

I think you're missing the significance of images on people's personal development and self-actualization. It's not merely that people "need to have themselves validated by their conformity to superficial images"; it's that the images people see over the course of their life influence the way they interpret basically everything about the world and their existence in it. This happens with or without a deliberate effort to shape people using images.

Moreover, if it doesn't matter whether you're validated by the degree to which you conform to superficial images, why in the flying fuck does it matter if Link is a girl? Wouldn't that just be an example of pandering to boys who always (and not just sometimes) need to be depicted as heroes to be validated?
 

Linkyn

Member
Ok.

You are a Goddess.
You choose a guy to fight for you and your land.
You find out such guy is the bravest and righteous man alive.
You fall in love with that man.
That man dies in battle giving you enought time to save your land and the triforce.
You, as a goddess, state a prophecy saying that you will make him "inmortal" through time so you can see each other every time Hyrule is in danger.

And now tell me if you won'tt make sure AS A GODDESS that the guy you loved and died defending you will be reborn EXACTLY AS HE WAS.


No, there's no place where the book/manga states "AND YOU WILL BE A MALE AND HAVE A DICK" but you only have to apply common sense. She was in love with HIM. She wanted to see HIM again and again and again till the end of times. That's why she left her god powers and is reborn as Zelda with HIM every time Hyruyle is in danger.


So yeah, if there's no restriction in what gender he is reborn there's no rectriction of the living thing he can be reborn. Maybe next zelda Link is a Cucco because, you know "there's no restriction"..

The problem is that this assumes the goddess loved him in part for being a man, when her feelings may very well transcend gender, so that it makes no difference to her in what form her love is reborn, because all the personality traits she was drawn to will be present either way.
 

georly

Member
commit sudoku

What if the person you play as isn't even the hero chosen by the goddess? Just some dude or lady, born in hyrule that decides to BECOME the hero? No rules against that. In fact, isn't that what wind waker is about?

The king of red lions himself says "[Link] appears to have no connection to the legendary one." The king NAMES him the hero of the winds. Link was not born a hero, he became one.

In a time of need, anyone can become the hero. Boy, Girl, Cucco, or Moblin.
 
We already know that the goddess has limitations to her power, otherwise she wouldn't need Link fighting for him to begin with.
We also know that she's more limited than the 3 original goddesses.
And please do provide the script reference for your points, that way we know you're not making stuffs up.


So now women are on the level of poultry?

hqdefault.jpg
 
lmao jesus christ

I applaud ALTTP, Mael, Diaspora, Galactic Fork, Lex and anyone else I may be forgetting for actually continuing to talk and explain to people but is it any real surprise why a lot of us have given up and are content to repeat the main salient points and just call shitty opinions shitty?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but we don't have to respect or give them any weight if they're fucking stupid or ignorant.
 
So yeah, if there's no restriction in what gender he is reborn there's no rectriction of the living thing he can be reborn. Maybe next zelda Link is a Cucco because, you know "there's no restriction"..

Hmm I never thought I'd see that argument in a Zelda thread. I'm more used to seeing it used to deny gay people rights. As in: "If we allow men to marry men, what's next? Woman and dog? Man and lamp?"

PS. It's called the slippery slope argument and it's universally acknowledged to be bullshit.
 

Fencedude

Member
I think the idea, unless i'm mistaken, is that they like how those things were written, and wouldn't want them to have been changed.

All of them are very heterocentric and rely a lot on assumptions about how males and females should interact. Many of them could have been done in ways that are just as, if not even more, interesting without involving the gender of the participants at all.
 
I applaud ALTTP, Mael, Diaspora, Galactic Fork, Lex and anyone else I may be forgetting for actually continuing to talk and explain to people but is it any real surprise why a lot of us have given up and are content to repeat the main salient points and just call shitty opinions shitty?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but we don't have to respect or give them any weight if they're fucking stupid or ignorant.

? I'm not sure if you're concurring with Sub-Zero or criticizing him :v
 
Hmm I never thought I'd see that argument in a Zelda thread. I'm more used to seeing it used to deny gay people rights. As in: "If we allow men to marry men, what's next? Woman and dog? Man and lamp?"

PS. It's called the slippery slope argument and it's universally acknowledged to be bullshit.

I dunno, I'd really enjoy a game where a cucco is the legendary hero.
 

Mael

Member
Since OoT (at least), the French translation is very high quality so I tend to just play the French version of the games and not bother with the US/UK version (because there's no way I'm bothering with the original Jp version).
And I've never seen anything that point to it being necessary for Link to be male.
You could make minimal change to the script and have Link be female in most cases without a big impact on the games.
There's even a joke about Zelda being the green dude to more casual Zelda players.
He's never depicted in a overly masculine way either in design or game model.
Where is this "Link should always be a male" coming from?
 

diaspora

Member
What if the person you play as isn't even the hero chosen by the goddess? Just some dude or lady, born in hyrule that decides to BECOME the hero? No rules against that. In fact, isn't that what wind waker is about?

The king of red lions himself says "[Link] appears to have no connection to the legendary one." The king NAMES him the hero of the winds. Link was not born a hero, he became one.

In a time of need, anyone can become the hero. Boy, Girl, Cucco, or Moblin.
Yep. WW Link is just someone who wants to help his sister and grandmother.

edit: this is something people bizarrely want to overlook. Big brother/ grandma's boy WW Link barring obvious design parallels is a different person from farmer TP Link or outcast kokiri OoT-Link.
 

Koozek

Member
The problem is that this assumes the goddess loved him in part for being a man, when her feelings may very well transcend gender, so that it makes no difference to her in what form her love is reborn, because all the personality traits she was drawn to will be present either way.

Exactly.
 
He's like "zelda's supreme god" he can fuck up his Universe the ways he wants if he gives a proper explanation which makes perfect sense.

"To receive the power of the legendary hero, you must prove your virtue."

- girl with incredible virtue is born, proves herself -

Done.
 

Clefargle

Member
This is such a nonissue I don't get how this is an issue for so many. Of course link could be female! It wouldn't mess anything up and could be achieved multiple ways. I used to think I wanted to see a mainline Linkle game, but now I'm sold on a full femlink game. It would be great and really interesting to see the world through a female character's eyes. I would prefer female link to Linkle but would also accept toggle/custom char or even a game starring Zelda/sheik or just Zelda. It could be fresh and interesting either way and I'm actually interested to see how Nintendo handles a mainline female with their history.
 

diaspora

Member
This is such a nonissue I don't get how this is an issue for so many. Of course link could be female! It wouldn't mess anything up and could be achieved multiple ways. I used to think I wanted to see a mainline Linkle game, but now I'm sold on a full femlink game. It would be great and really interesting to see the world through a female character's eyes. I would prefer female link to Linkle but would also accept toggle/custom char or even a game starring Zelda/sheik or just Zelda. It could be fresh and interesting either way and I'm actually interested to see how Nintendo handles a mainline female with their history.

My personal preference would be for siblings. I liked the elements of family in WW.
 

georly

Member
All of them are very heterocentric and rely a lot on assumptions about how males and females should interact. Many of them could have been done in ways that are just as, if not even more, interesting without involving the gender of the participants at all.

Don't get me the wrong way, I'm on your side. Just merely trying to point out what I think their argument is.

That said, I suspect romances in one of nintendo's biggest franchises to likely remain heterocentric for some time, especially with the protagonist. You may see side quests or random NPCs upset norms before you see Link not having a hetero romance.

"To receive the power of the legendary hero, you must prove your virtue."

- girl with incredible virtue is born, proves herself -

Done.

As soon as someone other than a male Link pulls out the master sword or gets the triforce of courage, it cements the fact that the hero can be anyone, not just a male link. You don't need the rules to say it can happen, but rather, if it happens, it means the rules some assumed were not true.
 

royox

Member
"To receive the power of the legendary hero, you must prove your virtue."

- girl with incredible virtue is born, proves herself -

Done.

Would buy it. If she has to receive the power is because she was not the hero reborn but a regular girl, just like Ww link was.
 
This is such a nonissue I don't get how this is an issue for so many. Of course link could be female! It wouldn't mess anything up and could be achieved multiple ways. I used to think I wanted to see a mainline Linkle game, but now I'm sold on a full femlink game.

I think right now my personal preference is that they go the route of Tri Force Heroes (in practice, I'd prefer something closer to the mainline Pokemon games) and just have a bunch of people all rising to the challenge of becoming the hero. Your Link is the one who's the real hero, though.

Would buy it. If she has to receive the power is because she was not the hero reborn but a regular girl, just like Ww link was.

You seem to be under the impression that the hero being reborn in multiple ages is like the same person's spirit being put into a new body over and over again.

I think the reality is probably more like there's a divine force that, while associated with a particular bloodline, manifests itself in a heroic figure whenever evil rises to threaten Hyrule.
 

Malcolm9

Member
I applaud ALTTP, Mael, Diaspora, Galactic Fork, Lex and anyone else I may be forgetting for actually continuing to talk and explain to people but is it any real surprise why a lot of us have given up and are content to repeat the main salient points and just call shitty opinions shitty?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but we don't have to respect or give them any weight if they're fucking stupid or ignorant.

It works both ways.
 

Fencedude

Member
So yeah, if there's no restriction in what gender he is reborn there's no rectriction of the living thing he can be reborn. Maybe next zelda Link is a Cucco because, you know "there's no restriction"..

I love the smell of Mandatory Heterosexuality in the morning! (or afternoon, or evening. Whatever)

(and by love I mean hate)

(and this post right here is an excellent example of how so many people, male and female, are completely incapable of looking at things in non-gendered terms)
 
Having Link be either a Male or Female is a blessing in my book. I know my daughter will be really stoked if this pans out to be true. She is 7 and has beaten Windwaker and currently is trying to beat Twilight Princess.

Having a female Link option will make her day!
 

brad-t

Member
3. After 30 years of Link being male, why would he suddenly, in 2016 when this kind of superficial nonsense just happens to be fashionable, become female? Are you saying this is purely a creative decision that took them 30 years to imagine? Is this such a unique nugget of creative thought that it would take teams of devoted minds working for three decades to make it a reality? Of course not. This is purely a ham-handed reaction to the kind of misguided social pressures that well-meaning people are mindlessly succumbing to right now. Whether or not the creators made the decision on their own is irrelevant. The motivation is misguided regardless. This is anti-creativity because it is a slippery slope that increasingly forces artists to focus on preemptively appeasing various and endless mobs rather than having the true creative freedom to follow only their vision without distraction.

Creativity doesn't exist in a vacuum. All creators are influenced by the world around them, and human perspectives evolve over time.

Vociferously demanding that a franchise not change, that new elements not be introduced, regardless of how the creative team behind it might feel, is pretty much the definition of anti-creativity.

Implying that the creators shouldn't have the right to make their own decisions because you feel their motivation is misguided — when you don't even know what their motivations are, nor even if this rumor is actually true! — makes it clear how little you actually give a shit about artistic integrity.
 
Why bother having established characters at all if people want to change them to fit their own preferences? Do we want everything to be a create-your-own protagonist game? Do we want Miis to take the place of Mario, Nathan Drake, Samus, Bayonetta, etc.?
 

atr0cious

Member
Ok.

You are a Goddess.
You choose a guy to fight for you and your land.
You find out such guy is the bravest and righteous man alive.
You fall in love with that man.
That man dies in battle giving you enought time to save your land and the triforce.
You, as a goddess, state a prophecy saying that you will make him "inmortal" through time so you can see each other every time Hyrule is in danger.

And now tell me if you won'tt make sure AS A GODDESS that the guy you loved and died defending you will be reborn EXACTLY AS HE WAS.


No, there's no place where the book/manga states "AND YOU WILL BE A MALE AND HAVE A DICK" but you only have to apply common sense. She was in love with HIM. She wanted to see HIM again and again and again till the end of times. That's why she left her god powers and is reborn as Zelda with HIM every time Hyruyle is in danger.


So yeah, if there's no restriction in what gender he is reborn there's no rectriction of the living thing he can be reborn. Maybe next zelda Link is a Cucco because, you know "there's no restriction"..

So fan fiction is an argument now. Also this reads like a fundie arguing against something.
 

diaspora

Member
Why bother having established characters at all if people want to change them to fit their own preferences? Do we want everything to be a create-your-own protagonist game? Do we want Miis to take the place of Mario, Nathan Drake, Samus, Bayonetta, etc.?

Nobody's suggesting that established characters should change though. Nobody's saying they need to make WW Link, TP Link, MM/OoT Link into women. What they are saying is that this new hero should give people a choice on the gender they want to play as.

So fan fiction is an argument now. Also this reads like a fundie arguing against something.

tfX2OGO.gif
 
Why bother having established characters at all if people want to change them to fit their own preferences? Do we want everything to be a create-your-own protagonist game? Do we want Miis to take the place of Mario, Nathan Drake, Samus, Bayonetta, etc.?

A female Link in a green tunic is more recognizably Link than male Link in a blue shirt, as the Zelda U reveal proved.
 

Mael

Member
Why bother having established characters at all if people want to change them to fit their own preferences? Do we want everything to be a create-your-own protagonist game? Do we want Miis to take the place of Mario, Nathan Drake, Samus, Bayonetta, etc.?

Link is an established character in the same way the hero in Pokemon is.
It's nearly never the same person from game to game anyway, he already change appearance anyway so why should gender be off limit?
We're not talking about a tuning game either.
 

Clefargle

Member
Link reincarnates very often, I fail to see how being born with a different sex changes anything about the character in context or not.
 
Ok.

You are a Goddess.
You choose a guy to fight for you and your land.
You find out such guy is the bravest and righteous man alive.
You fall in love with that man.
That man dies in battle giving you enought time to save your land and the triforce.
You, as a goddess, state a prophecy saying that you will make him "inmortal" through time so you can see each other every time Hyrule is in danger.

And now tell me if you won'tt make sure AS A GODDESS that the guy you loved and died defending you will be reborn EXACTLY AS HE WAS.


No, there's no place where the book/manga states "AND YOU WILL BE A MALE AND HAVE A DICK" but you only have to apply common sense. She was in love with HIM. She wanted to see HIM again and again and again till the end of times. That's why she left her god powers and is reborn as Zelda with HIM every time Hyruyle is in danger.


So yeah, if there's no restriction in what gender he is reborn there's no rectriction of the living thing he can be reborn. Maybe next zelda Link is a Cucco because, you know "there's no restriction"..

People keep saying this is fanfiction, but wasn't this stated in the Skyward Sword manga that was in Hyrule Historia? How canon it is, is still suspect considering it's a manga, but there's a bit more merit to it (if I'm remembering correctly) then people are saying.

The gender wont bother me that much, but I still think of Link as an established character, so it's strange to me. I'd rather Linkle/Zelda as a main character in their own main game then straight up saying Link is a girl now.

I definitely understand a desire for a female main character. I personally just don't like it on LInk, I suppose. It's the same thing with the genderbent Samus(to me) argument going around. Don't change her gender, just use a different character if you needed a different gendered character for some reason :/
 

Malcolm9

Member
You could have just sparred your keyboard and just typed "No U".
That's 4 characters after all.

If you want to play as a guy in a Metroid game you can play all the 585645 other knock off out there or even Federation Force soon if you really want to explore Metroid's universe from a male perspective.

But what if I want to play as male Samus, the same as others want to play as female Link? It doesn't have to be based on the current time line so it wouldn't affect any lore.
 
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