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Russia signs $400 billion dollar Gas deal with China
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Lagspike_exe
Member
Russia will probably sign a similar deal with India as well. Potentialy with South Korea as well. They are rapidly strenghtining the BRICS Central Asian axis. There's a good chance they'll be launching the BRICS equivalent of World Bank this year with $100b which will be the beginning of creation of a system which will be parallel to US dominated Bretton Woods system. Russia is playing the long game.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Speaking of which, what happened to the price of gas?
I remember when I was a kid, back in the early 2000's, my parents talked about what would happen if gas ever hit $100 a barrel and the horrible things that would happen.
I remember other people talking about that as well, any reason why doomsday never came to pass?
Stuff like liquefied natural gas (LNG) and shale gas have increased competition and kept prices in check.
China had leverage to delay this gas deal with Russia for a decade because they can import gas around the world for competitive prices. They aren't dependant on Russia's gas pipes since that's not the only way to get gas anymore. That's why China had the upper hand in the negotiations.
The deal is for 30 years. Per year it's 38 billion m². And China is paying some of that in advance. They are effectively paying 0.26EUR per m². That's quite a nice deal for Gazprom, when you consider how much China is buying and for how long the deal will last.
On top of that China will pay in Rubel or Yuan, not US dollars.
This is the most important part of the deal. China is moving to the next step in talking about security agreements between the BRICSs, which are making moves to "de-dollarize" the world. This will all have irreversible effects for the dollar, and the US can't rely on mystery buyers in Belgium picking up the now less desired treasuries, as they have been since tapering began.
It's a new century, and I think it belongs to the new Eurasia.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
To the average person it might as well be. I was born and raised there and have family still there. Russians are not doing that well. All that GDP money is going to a select few.
Indeed, comrade! :lol
Lagspike_exe
Member
Completely false. Average real incomes have skyrocketed since Putin became president. This is a statistical fact.
BRIC(S) formalizing a higher level of cooperation isn't surprising. First, there's going to be economic coopoeration. Later on, I wouldn't be suprised if Russia and China enhance their security cooperation, whether through SCO or even some new formats.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
I was not arguing that things haven't improved under Putin. Skyrocketing from an abysmal level doesn't necessarily mean you're well off at the end.
The average income in Russia is about 17k (USD) a year, lower than the OECD average of 23k. The wealth gap is huge and Russia is basically an oligarchy.
That figure is meaningless without looking at the cost of living in Russia.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Russia has a more equitable wealth distribution than for example US or China and is roughly the same as Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_distribution_of_wealth). Are all thos countries oligarchies?
British Columbia should be too...
BC has been going full tilt to try to get LNG exporting deals and infrastructure in place, but you gotta wonder if it's all going to be too late.
It's funny because during the recent last election one of the major Green Party candidates was puzzled as to why the government was so passionate about LNG as he said they'd never, ever have a chance to catch up to Russia.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Yeah.
Yea, I have hopes for these two countries. US can continue shooting itself
in the foot for all I care. I feel more at ease in a multipolar world.
I would say otherwise. Each ASEAN country is far too small, economy and military wise. The only way to fight back with China is only integration. Somehow it doesn't come into full effect yet because China has hold some poor ASEAN country ball (Burma, Laos, Cambodia). And ASEAN has the rule of not agree on anything if one of the member country make objection (which surely that 3 countries will object the joint ASEAN military program in a favour of China).
BTW, China is playing a dangerous game here. All of their neibourhood allies are small and poor. So they practically has nobody to support apart from themself. Imagine the war between China and the rest of Asia (with support from US). That would be very interesting.
Cost of living is actually very high compared to incomes. It's not easy to live over there.
Defenestrated Donut
Neo Member
Multipolar worlds are less stable than unipolar worlds. It'll be interesting see if globalization has any affect on the historical instability of a multipolar world.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Basically this deal went down like this.
Russia originally wanted $400cbm and Russia would build and maintain the infrastructure to bring the gas to China and China had to agree a modest minimum purchase guarantee that would pay for the infrastructure at least.
China countered with $350cbm and it would pay to build and maintain the entire infrastructure. China also offered to pay for gas PRIOR to delivery. Additionally, instead of agreeing to a minimum purchase agreement China moved the minimum purchase amount guarantee to what Russia thought was
Chinas maximum demand in addition China guaranteed payment for whatever Russia wants to produce over the new minimum.
Sort of like someone looking a job that would pay $40,000/ year but the perspective employer offered $35,000/year but would pay the employees rent, transportation, taxes, health insurance and living expenses. In addition, the employer offered him as much overtime as he wants. So even though his salary is less than he wanted he would make out far better than what he originally thought he would.
Russia originally wanted $400cbm and Russia would build and maintain the infrastructure to bring the gas to China and China had to agree a modest minimum purchase guarantee that would pay for the infrastructure at least.
China countered with $350cbm and it would pay to build and maintain the entire infrastructure. China also offered to pay for gas PRIOR to delivery. Additionally, instead of agreeing to a minimum purchase agreement China moved the minimum purchase amount guarantee to what Russia thought was
Chinas maximum demand in addition China guaranteed payment for whatever Russia wants to produce over the new minimum.
Sort of like someone looking a job that would pay $40,000/ year but the perspective employer offered $35,000/year but would pay the employees rent, transportation, taxes, health insurance and living expenses. In addition, the employer offered him as much overtime as he wants. So even though his salary is less than he wanted he would make out far better than what he originally thought he would.
CadetMahoney
Member
this.
This is basically the exact opposite of the truth. Political leaders have extremely limited power to control the economy.
CadetMahoney
Member
I for one welcome our new Eurasian overlords.
Nothing you said disagrees with what I said. The South China Sea issue divides ASEAN--besides the countries that are allied with China, many of the countries are also bickering amongst themselves for the islands and dispute over sea borders.
By fostering nationalism, they are helping de-emphasize the importance of ASEAN--I'm sure Vietnamese and Filipinos do not think ASEAN is the solution when they see ASEAN not even able to issue a verbal statement that mentions China.
If the alternative was for China to encourage ASEAN to settle their disputes with each other and have China negotiate with a united ASEAN, there are few reasons why China would want that. The only reason people would proffer would be to lower the risk of military conflict. But if China does not want military conflict and thinks it can avoid military conflict (and it's economic levers help there), then it is not important for them to decrease the chance of conflict if they don't think it will ever get there.
Well then he should have used an index that reflected this, not just the average income.
pigeon interrupted
Member
Always did, on paper. Like clockwork, heh. A little worried if some previous owners attempt to pay it a visit or create grounds for a custody battle.
DynamoJack
Banned
Yep, its the Asia Pivot...FPI involved again, they were the ones tweeting about Liz Wahl resigning 20 minutes before it happened on RT and she was interviewed first by FPI member James Kirchik at the DailyBeast, Victoria Nulands Husband, Robert Kagan also sits on the board of directors FPI.
The Obama Administration's Pivot to Asia
Asia Pivot, US trying to gain bigger influence in the region, video was from 2 years ago but playing out now
Trans-Pacific Partnership doesn't include China
58 more US F-35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft purchased by Australia
China proposes security alliance to counter U.S. influence
Found most of this out listening to Corbett Report, yes he's known as a "conspiracy theorist" but what he talked about 2-3 years ago is playing out now.
pigeon interrupted
Member
Yeah. Most realise even if the say they don't. It's right there. Nature innit, I think--probably the feelz in the wind lol. No escape because we never have--blind to the bind. Those in power are likely powerless to stop it. Growth and decay; for the economists;D
Twistier than a twisty turny thing--it'll traverse the difference. Stand (pile bodies) in the way, back room deal or yknow-- at
And tea.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Yep, so much for the mining boom + China relations with regards to natural gas. Bye Bye 10's of billions.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Yeah. Most realise even if the say they don't. It's right there. Nature innit, I think--probably the feelz in the wind lol. No escape because we never have--blind to the bind. Those in power are likely powerless to stop it. Growth and decay; for the economists;D
Twistier than a twisty turny thing--it'll traverse the difference. Stand (pile bodies) in the way, back room deal or yknow-- atyourownrisk. Only way to win could be to lose. At least we have Pharrel
cray cray
Onward China, on Kazakhstan, on Iran, onward Russia!
The fact that you think life would be any better under a hemisphere under the control of Eurasian autocracies than western Europe and the US automatically makes me assume that you're a greasy 19 year old wearing an edgy anarchy shirt with a stack of Nietzsche and comic books on your desk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc5wkQm6B44Yeah. Most realise even if the say they don't. It's right there. Nature innit, I think--probably the feelz in the wind lol. No escape because we never have--blind to the bind. Those in power are likely powerless to stop it. Growth and decay; for the economists;D
Twistier than a twisty turny thing--it'll traverse the difference. Stand (pile bodies) in the way, back room deal or yknow-- atyourownrisk. Only way to win could be to lose. At least we have Pharrel
If anything I'd prefer China over Russia. Am I wrong?
No, you are not wrong. In China, at least you can hope the growing middle class gives enough pressure to the government to play nice. Russia is far behind China in terms of economic and social development.
Putin's ego will make long term planning and stability difficult.
It's all about the quality of life. If your people have a shitty life, then the size of your economy really doesn't matter.
This map is inaccurate in that its smallest unit are nations rather than smaller more localized units. I assure you that there are people living better in Hong Kong than the middle of Mississippi.
The picture does make for great propaganda though.
In their current incarnations? Absolutely agree. Long term? It's a toss-up for me.
Tatersalad
Member
You're right about the localized units being off, but propaganda is a bit strong. I think the map is fairly accurate about overall quality of life...I'd much rather live in one of the green places vs red.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
I know this is off topic but has anyone else here watched the anime hentalia? This whole oil deal would have been perfect for a sketch.
On another note was there any surprise this what was going to happen after Russia made it awkward for Europe to buy from them long term due to the whole Ukraine affair?
The two biggest winners in this is America that is going to try to (and likely will) take Russia's place as Europe's number 1 natural gas Energy dealer and China that got a great deal on the price of Energy from Russia.
On another note was there any surprise this what was going to happen after Russia made it awkward for Europe to buy from them long term due to the whole Ukraine affair?
The two biggest winners in this is America that is going to try to (and likely will) take Russia's place as Europe's number 1 natural gas Energy dealer and China that got a great deal on the price of Energy from Russia.
pigeon interrupted
Member
cray? A fish in sea? Bingo.
Portrait Mode. Damage +99. Ouchy, mah pride and mah eyez!
You handsome monster. I forgive you 0
The U.S. has no infrastructure (e.g. LNG terminals) for export. It will take years to build this infrastructure. But it is true that Russia will focus on Asia because these economies still grow and have a huge potential.
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