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Shadowrun: Hong Kong |OT| Little Trouble in Big China
- Thread starter cj_iwakura
- Start date
My Deckers 8 charisma came in handy during Prosperity Tower.
I found it in the matrix. I think it was on the floor with the sales team.
I found it in the matrix. I think it was on the floor with the sales team.
You must deal literally 0 damage.
AzureSkies
Member
Loved the game from start to finish, my only issue was how buggy it got in the last act.
I had to restart
and is0bel's side mission numerous times as they kept bugging out.
I had a lot of fun though.
I had to restart
Prosperity tower
I had a lot of fun though.
I didn't do a lot, but I did enough to do fine on hard. Had enough points to get some quickness and firearms, but Gaichu and Duncan did most of my damage, while my character and gobbet supported.
ElectricThunder
Member
I meant moreso that normally if this was an intended design issue, an XCOM-like rage would've been there in force since SR outright---to my recollections, I've never seen more folks aghast at it than with the latest one where something is apparently odd, and given the host of other bugs and tuning woes, lends it ample kindling.
Having RNG "estimates" outright like this is honestly probably not the best way to go about this especially given the P&P roots---I know Shadowrun plays at dice rolls a bit differently than, say, D&D...but there's agency in establishing for some absolutes especially for symmetry when it is already present for the likes of non-combat checks and things like Heals and Buffs. Alternatively, allow for agency in fudging the rolls like a FATE point in Arcanum----or go with the laziest solution where even the "~99%'s" do some graze damage.
LurkerPrime
Member
RNG always comes down to a person's perception and there's nothing off about it. The only thing that happens is that people forget about their successes and remember every failure, leading to the skewed memory that the RNG somehow does not favour them like it should.
A RNG-less sytem, like Age of Wonders 3's, would be fine for Shadowrun if not for the fact that Shadowrunning is all about risk. Mistakes are made, accidents happen, and things go wrong. Without any ambiguity the runs would be even more predictable than they currently are, which would be... bad.
If anything, Shadowrun needs even more RNG in the missions. It wouldn't be bad for Shadowrun to look to XCOM's strategic depth--the systems are there to support it. For starters, I would certainly appreciate a chance for runners to get wounded, either temporarily or permanently, forcing different strategies to be taken; it would finally give purpose to the hirable runners.
ElectricThunder
Member
The new Shadowrun games have been narrative-driven Campaign experiences, not so much Campaign sandboxes---Pivots in narratives(RPGs) are one thing, with King of Dragon Pass being one of the better examples of how to tackle it while still keeping the thread in line with the world itself, but dipping too deeply into the one-sided RNG waters(again with symmetry, interesting Critical Successes should be out in force alongside Critical Fumbles as opposed to solely the latter only ever seeming to be what some folks clamor to see implemented) really favors the sandbox approach of disposable characters or some kind of Roguelike.
A straight numbers game of percentages versus nuanced action/reaction, cause/effect, adjectives and action verbs at play, etc on the narrative side will devolve sooner than later once the system is duly gamed out---themed gimmick characters fade out to "sub-optimal" or not for squeezing artificial challenge out. IIRC, that's essentially how the difficulty mode selection is situated---just a kind of sweeping numbers addling as opposed to handcrafted, deliberate changes in each combat encounter to go deeper down the puzzle-like hole they currently reside in?
Runner injuries....they'd have to do a ground-up rewrite on the entire economic side of things as it isn't like you can just avail of the solutions of the Genesis game---even moreso in HK where the hirables get none of the plot attention that the story-centric runners do and money is even harder to generate in meaningful sums.
A straight numbers game of percentages versus nuanced action/reaction, cause/effect, adjectives and action verbs at play, etc on the narrative side will devolve sooner than later once the system is duly gamed out---themed gimmick characters fade out to "sub-optimal" or not for squeezing artificial challenge out. IIRC, that's essentially how the difficulty mode selection is situated---just a kind of sweeping numbers addling as opposed to handcrafted, deliberate changes in each combat encounter to go deeper down the puzzle-like hole they currently reside in?
Runner injuries....they'd have to do a ground-up rewrite on the entire economic side of things as it isn't like you can just avail of the solutions of the Genesis game---even moreso in HK where the hirables get none of the plot attention that the story-centric runners do and money is even harder to generate in meaningful sums.
Shake Appeal
Member
I didn't fight anyone in Prosperity Tower until
. But my character was pretty much built to talk her way out of anything.
I also dropped the mummy in that fight. It died in one turn.
the shootout while you're rescuing Raymond
I also dropped the mummy in that fight. It died in one turn.
Anyone else think the final boss' Form III was rather underwhelming?
When the rest of the crew pops up, I thought "shit, the gangs all here, her HP must be through the roof".
Then I saw Rachter didn't bring his murderbot which I thought was weird (I thought it was a bug). I proceeded to dump Gobbet's AOE fog which practically halved the boss' HP.
Needless to say, the fight ends within 2 turns. :-\
When the rest of the crew pops up, I thought "shit, the gangs all here, her HP must be through the roof".
Then I saw Rachter didn't bring his murderbot which I thought was weird (I thought it was a bug). I proceeded to dump Gobbet's AOE fog which practically halved the boss' HP.
Needless to say, the fight ends within 2 turns. :-\
I killed her in one. A part of me wonders if she really was bluffing.
Like I said before, the only ability in the game that needs a nerf is gobbet's fog
also tag your spoilers
I never got it. The summoning related abilities seemed pretty cool so I went with them; but then basically no enemies ever summoned
.I finished the game. In some ways it's the best Shadowrun Returns campaign yet, in other ways it falls short of the standard set by Dragonfall, and in yet other ways it showcases more so than ever that the codebase the games run on is severely holding the team's design and vision back.
The Good
In terms of the characters, the setting, and general vibe of the campaign, Shadowrun Returns has never felt this alive. There is a vibrancy to the tone, if not the graphics. There's a real sense of place here, leveraging the cultural quirks and religious/superstitious mythology in the region. The characters also feel much more integrated into the entire setting, rather than just being pawns for the narrative or people who have their own little story isolated from the fabric of a fictional society. Each vendor, NPC, companion, and client feels well thought out and designed as part of a larger whole, each complementing the rest in building a believable community that exists within the Shadowrun universe. Not only did I think the companion quests were better than ever this time round, but I was surprised at how much I was invested into the stories of the residents and vendors. There's a ton more effort put into the interactions and the depth of their personalities and personal histories here, and it was neat to see rewarding usage of skill checks even in seemingly mundane discussions about someone's past. It's also nice to see that in several missions, extra care was put into allowing for non-violent solutions or sometimes using stealth to avoid encounters entirely. In general the quest variety was great, and a solid improvement over an already impressive Dragonfall.
The Bad
On the other hand, the main campaign's actual core story feels lacking in actual design and execution. This is odd because it is something that Dragonfall really excelled at. While the initial mystery here and the way it plays into the setting is arguably more compelling than Dragonfall's, the way the ultimately plays out, and more importantly the way the endgame is design, leaves much to be desired. I don't have any issues with the actual concepts of the story - they fit with the setting, it's refreshing to have something different in a campaign, and there's nothing illogical about it. But it just didn't feel satisfying to play through the endgame. Much of the optional text in the game built up expectations of something truly mystical and horrific happening within the Walled City, and there were thematic parallels between the shit hitting the fan at the end and the typhoon finally hitting land. Yet none of this was taken advantage of to make the climax more exciting. What was probably the most disappointing was the level design in the finale. While Dragonfall hit all the right notes there with interesting situations all the way to the very end, here it feels they ran out of steam after the Prosperity Tower and just connected a bunch of empty rooms with enemies leading towards the final encounter. The difficulty being a joke even on "Hard" didn't help much either.
The Ugly
Finally we get to the truly unpleasant parts of the game - the engine feels fucking broken. I don't think there's any way to sugarcoat this, so I'll just say it. The User Interface still totally sucks after three campaigns, the scripting/coding in the game often feels like it is barely hanging together in terms of how it tracks data (stats, items, dialogue loops, text display), with errors being common but sometimes unnoticeable until it is too late. I could never tell if my Cyberware was giving the right buffs or stacking the right things. Some of my companion upgrades/rewards felt like they never actually got activated. I'm convinced that some quests/dialogue got bugged along the way. There are weird text display errors sometimes. The list goes on. The user interaction is getting pretty annoying too, especially with the introduction of Matrix Stealth (TM). The movement system was clearly never programmed to handle stuff like this in realtime, so instead of feeling tense and exciting, it just feels like a hassle and most times you're caught not because of a mistake but because the pathing or animation lagged and messed stuff up.
Considering how the overall scope and care in writing and designing the campaigns expand with each game, I think they would do well to consider a complete revamp of the codebase and UI. Something that works towards the strengths they have now, rather than the mobile considerations they originally had when starting the first game.
The Good
In terms of the characters, the setting, and general vibe of the campaign, Shadowrun Returns has never felt this alive. There is a vibrancy to the tone, if not the graphics. There's a real sense of place here, leveraging the cultural quirks and religious/superstitious mythology in the region. The characters also feel much more integrated into the entire setting, rather than just being pawns for the narrative or people who have their own little story isolated from the fabric of a fictional society. Each vendor, NPC, companion, and client feels well thought out and designed as part of a larger whole, each complementing the rest in building a believable community that exists within the Shadowrun universe. Not only did I think the companion quests were better than ever this time round, but I was surprised at how much I was invested into the stories of the residents and vendors. There's a ton more effort put into the interactions and the depth of their personalities and personal histories here, and it was neat to see rewarding usage of skill checks even in seemingly mundane discussions about someone's past. It's also nice to see that in several missions, extra care was put into allowing for non-violent solutions or sometimes using stealth to avoid encounters entirely. In general the quest variety was great, and a solid improvement over an already impressive Dragonfall.
The Bad
On the other hand, the main campaign's actual core story feels lacking in actual design and execution. This is odd because it is something that Dragonfall really excelled at. While the initial mystery here and the way it plays into the setting is arguably more compelling than Dragonfall's, the way the ultimately plays out, and more importantly the way the endgame is design, leaves much to be desired. I don't have any issues with the actual concepts of the story - they fit with the setting, it's refreshing to have something different in a campaign, and there's nothing illogical about it. But it just didn't feel satisfying to play through the endgame. Much of the optional text in the game built up expectations of something truly mystical and horrific happening within the Walled City, and there were thematic parallels between the shit hitting the fan at the end and the typhoon finally hitting land. Yet none of this was taken advantage of to make the climax more exciting. What was probably the most disappointing was the level design in the finale. While Dragonfall hit all the right notes there with interesting situations all the way to the very end, here it feels they ran out of steam after the Prosperity Tower and just connected a bunch of empty rooms with enemies leading towards the final encounter. The difficulty being a joke even on "Hard" didn't help much either.
The Ugly
Finally we get to the truly unpleasant parts of the game - the engine feels fucking broken. I don't think there's any way to sugarcoat this, so I'll just say it. The User Interface still totally sucks after three campaigns, the scripting/coding in the game often feels like it is barely hanging together in terms of how it tracks data (stats, items, dialogue loops, text display), with errors being common but sometimes unnoticeable until it is too late. I could never tell if my Cyberware was giving the right buffs or stacking the right things. Some of my companion upgrades/rewards felt like they never actually got activated. I'm convinced that some quests/dialogue got bugged along the way. There are weird text display errors sometimes. The list goes on. The user interaction is getting pretty annoying too, especially with the introduction of Matrix Stealth (TM). The movement system was clearly never programmed to handle stuff like this in realtime, so instead of feeling tense and exciting, it just feels like a hassle and most times you're caught not because of a mistake but because the pathing or animation lagged and messed stuff up.
Considering how the overall scope and care in writing and designing the campaigns expand with each game, I think they would do well to consider a complete revamp of the codebase and UI. Something that works towards the strengths they have now, rather than the mobile considerations they originally had when starting the first game.
LurkerPrime
Member
Your post is accurate... and this is so painfully true. Whether it's due to hopes of future mobile ports, dev time concerns, or modding compatibility, Harebrained Schemes needs to decide whether they want to stay a Shadowrun Factory or become a Shadowrun Industry. For the latter, their tools need to improve... massively. It is probably a gamble, but the Shadowrun games can be so much more than they are.
As to what lies beyond greatness? I hope that Harebrained finds out.
Yeah, the engine feels awkward at times. I guess as these games get bigger they're hitting the ceiling of said engine more often.
Even simple things like navigating the UI isn't great. Like I'll see that I have karma to spend, so I go click to the screen where you spend it, and it'll hang for 4-5 seconds before getting to it. It just all feels like it's struggling to keep up with the player, even when simply navigating menus.
Thankfully the missions are really fun and the writing is better than ever, so I'm having a good time. But some improvements / overhaul to the technical side of things for any future SR game would be much appreciated.
Even simple things like navigating the UI isn't great. Like I'll see that I have karma to spend, so I go click to the screen where you spend it, and it'll hang for 4-5 seconds before getting to it. It just all feels like it's struggling to keep up with the player, even when simply navigating menus.
Thankfully the missions are really fun and the writing is better than ever, so I'm having a good time. But some improvements / overhaul to the technical side of things for any future SR game would be much appreciated.
MisterShine
Member
Invisible Inc. has shown that turn-based stealth works very well when done properly. I hope they switch to a similar system for the next game. Agreed with the rest of your points, UI especially. It somehow got worse from Dragonfall despite supposedly dropping the requirements for mobile versions.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
They also need to either commit to fleshing out the world more by adding many, many more points of interest, or find some other way to accent interactive areas on the map. Too much of the game boils down to "click the interactive diamonds in the proper sequence." I think the mobile roots are holding back the game quite a bit. But HBS is probably a generation away from switching up engines, considering how expensive they are, so I hope they just find a better way to handle progression. Personally, I'd like a bit more exploration. Shadowrun is such a great setting. I'd like to go where the game doesn't necessarily want me to go.
I'd back a totally remade engine if they wanted to put a KS up for it. And this is coming from somebody who is enjoying the new matrix, warts and all.
The game writing is fantastic and everybody in it seems to breathe and exist in an authentic world. The setting is on par with the great CRPG's. It just needs some smoothing out.
I'd also like them to flesh out the combat a bit more in future games. It's turn based lite -- hate to say it, but it's FF Tactics when I want to be playing X-COM. Sorry if that rustles any FF Tactics fans here.
I'm personally only about 1/3 of the way through the game as far as I can tell. Still loving the ride.
The game writing is fantastic and everybody in it seems to breathe and exist in an authentic world. The setting is on par with the great CRPG's. It just needs some smoothing out.
I'd also like them to flesh out the combat a bit more in future games. It's turn based lite -- hate to say it, but it's FF Tactics when I want to be playing X-COM. Sorry if that rustles any FF Tactics fans here.
I'm personally only about 1/3 of the way through the game as far as I can tell. Still loving the ride.
Pilgrimzero
Member
Speaking of useless abilities, I gave Gobbet the ability to steal npcs summoned spirits. Which none of them have yet to do.
In related news, Gobbet is my fave character in this game and I hope to see more of her in later installments.
In related news, Gobbet is my fave character in this game and I hope to see more of her in later installments.
Useless 95% of the times. When I did get a chance to use it though it was great.
The gauntlet segment in
Prosperity Tower
Green Embers
Member
I just finished about an hour ago. I agree with duckroll's assessment. I really enjoyed the game, except for the new Matrix experience. I thought it was due to the limitations of running it on a Surface Pro 3 (which works to answer my earlier question). I would keep getting caught due to freezing and blocking. After reading the thread I guess that is a limitation of the engine. I hope they upgrade the engine for the next game, and yes work on making menus more responsive and better inventory management.
I just want to say I kind of felt that Prosperity Towers was more fun than the end game. The end game looked like it was going to be cool but was really simple. I had fun placing Duncan right before a door that enemies were going to come through and using overwatch to blast them with full auto.
Gobbet was my favorite character. Her stories and 'Shadowrunning Lessons' cracked me up. I also really enjoyed the BBS threads with the poetry and Looking for a Decker. Really good times there.
I just want to say I kind of felt that Prosperity Towers was more fun than the end game. The end game looked like it was going to be cool but was really simple. I had fun placing Duncan right before a door that enemies were going to come through and using overwatch to blast them with full auto.
Gobbet was my favorite character. Her stories and 'Shadowrunning Lessons' cracked me up. I also really enjoyed the BBS threads with the poetry and Looking for a Decker. Really good times there.
codswallop
Member
Guessing I'm 2/3 or 3/4 through (
) and ventured in here to see if anyone felt the same I do about the engine ... seems a resounding yes.
After having played some other games this year with better choice, or at least illusion of choice (Witcher 3, Pillars of Eternity), I'm beginning to feel fatigued with the current Shadowrun formula. It rarely feels like there's any choices I have, and in order to unlock the next thing (such as companion missions), I just have to click and wade through a ton of text.
A lot of text isn't a bad thing (though, admittedly, I've started skipping through a fair amount), but I really dislike the placement of the text window - it's not like the space in the middle of my monitor is otherwise used! I just feel like there's no real agency other than directly moving the story forward and being a mostly passive participant.
The choices in missions (like in the 'kidnap Rooster' mission) are still pretty great, but they feel far too narrow and small in scope. Likewise, the combat has started to feel a bit dull as well. I mean, it's still fun enough, but I feel contemporary games like Pillars of Eternity, and probably even Divinity Original Sin (haven't played that one) offer more interesting combat. And that there's still bugs that have been present since Shadowrun Returns is still annoying. Not to mention a ton of typos - if your game is almost all text, at least get keep the mistakes out of it!
The world doesn't feel alive at all - it's pretty, to be certain, but it's just so static. I don't think the realtime matrix worked - but I applaud HBS for having a crack at something new and I must admit I enjoy it for what it is (at least it's better than the previous one).
At least the story and companions are interesting, and overall I'm happy with it. But I think unless there's real ambition from the ground up, I'll probably just wait for a deep discount on whatever comes next. I'm burned out with the current approach.
just learned that Raymond is also Tsang
After having played some other games this year with better choice, or at least illusion of choice (Witcher 3, Pillars of Eternity), I'm beginning to feel fatigued with the current Shadowrun formula. It rarely feels like there's any choices I have, and in order to unlock the next thing (such as companion missions), I just have to click and wade through a ton of text.
A lot of text isn't a bad thing (though, admittedly, I've started skipping through a fair amount), but I really dislike the placement of the text window - it's not like the space in the middle of my monitor is otherwise used! I just feel like there's no real agency other than directly moving the story forward and being a mostly passive participant.
The choices in missions (like in the 'kidnap Rooster' mission) are still pretty great, but they feel far too narrow and small in scope. Likewise, the combat has started to feel a bit dull as well. I mean, it's still fun enough, but I feel contemporary games like Pillars of Eternity, and probably even Divinity Original Sin (haven't played that one) offer more interesting combat. And that there's still bugs that have been present since Shadowrun Returns is still annoying. Not to mention a ton of typos - if your game is almost all text, at least get keep the mistakes out of it!
The world doesn't feel alive at all - it's pretty, to be certain, but it's just so static. I don't think the realtime matrix worked - but I applaud HBS for having a crack at something new and I must admit I enjoy it for what it is (at least it's better than the previous one).
At least the story and companions are interesting, and overall I'm happy with it. But I think unless there's real ambition from the ground up, I'll probably just wait for a deep discount on whatever comes next. I'm burned out with the current approach.
I agree with this sentiment, though I'm not sure how successful Hong Kong is in relation to Dragonfall. These games are low budget wRPG's and people need to have realistic ideas about what they can and cannot accomplish on such a low development budget, both monetary and time wise.
The issue isn't Unity. That's just the tech engine. The issue is how they've used Unity to build the game, and the internal tools they've made to implement the game. They're constrained because the original Dead Man's Switch was meant to be very modular in nature, and heavily streamlined to make it easier for the mobile experience. Since then they have expanded the scope a lot, as seen in Dragonfall's changes to the approach, their implementation of actual save files, and various UI improvements. It's not enough though, if they want to continue down this route, it might be best to overhaul the way data and scripts are managed from ground up to better cater to the sort of campaigns they want to make now.
Battletech is actually going to be a good indication of how much they've learned, because that an example of them building something new from scratch with Unity. Hopefully it ends up looking more polished.
Battletech is actually going to be a good indication of how much they've learned, because that an example of them building something new from scratch with Unity. Hopefully it ends up looking more polished.
It's a dungeon crawling action RPG with randomly generated floors and loot. Don't think there's much to compare in terms of interface and implementation with Shadowrun.
Not like anyone talks about Golem Arcana in Shadowrun threads either.
Yeah, that's true.
They're going full 3D with Battletech, so it'll be interesting to see how they end up doing by starting over from scratch with Unity 5. At least I expect that the writing will be good, but the jury is out in regards to tech.
How's Necropolis from a tech standpoint?
ElectricThunder
Member
I'd also be entirely content with them getting Larian drunk and hashing out an agreement to work together/use the theoretically greatly improved engine that Divinity will be sporting so long as they don't mind entirely easing off the mobile sector.
They just need to hammer hard at major patching from here, and take all manner of critical feedback thus far into improving the Epilogue addition some months from now else it will be disastrous since they've pretty much cornered themselves with it being a High-Karma Only deal---everything needs to be working well as far as party abilities and equipment or else the wheels will fall off hard.
They just need to hammer hard at major patching from here, and take all manner of critical feedback thus far into improving the Epilogue addition some months from now else it will be disastrous since they've pretty much cornered themselves with it being a High-Karma Only deal---everything needs to be working well as far as party abilities and equipment or else the wheels will fall off hard.
I agree with some of the criticisms but RE: Pillars.
I enjoyed reading SR:HK more than I ever did Pillars, which just kind of made my eyes glaze over because it was so dull. I never finished that game either, because I got tired of it.
The pace and length of SR:HK is very nice now that I lack the patience for long-winded RPGs.
I enjoyed reading SR:HK more than I ever did Pillars, which just kind of made my eyes glaze over because it was so dull. I never finished that game either, because I got tired of it.
The pace and length of SR:HK is very nice now that I lack the patience for long-winded RPGs.
Shake Appeal
Member
The funny thing is I immediately fired up a new Dragonfall playthrough after Hong Kong, and the engine actually feels sturdier there. Faster load times thanks to smaller maps, more UI interactions (e.g., selecting portraits to cast spells), better stash screen (without the werid black flicker), and no lingering sense that some script or flag is going to fail to trigger.
^Yeah, casting spells or abilities on portraits no longer worked in Hong Kong, which surprised me a lot. How can you regress from something the previous game had? One would think they had removed the code or something.
In general I think the dev time was way too short for this game. They should have extended it a bit more since the crowdfunding turned out to be as big as it became.
In general I think the dev time was way too short for this game. They should have extended it a bit more since the crowdfunding turned out to be as big as it became.
Definitely agree. I almost wonder if they were on an accelerated schedule to make room for Battletech. The studio isn't that big and they're already working on Necropolis. The team still has to finish the mini-campaign for HK too. It's exciting times for Harebrained Schemes, but they should be careful not to over-extend themselves.
The entire finale for HK really feels rushed too. Especially considering how much interactivity there is in the Prosperity Tower right before it, it's odd for them to drop the ball so hard on the actual finale. It would have been much better to have a more fleshed out Walled City finale with multiple segments of the mission which actually feel unique and substantial on their own. Instead it felt more like a FFXIII dungeon than anything else (hurts typing this!).
In fact, (finale spoiler)
the way the mission was set up initially, I was almost convinced that there would be two teams involved, with the main team leading the initial charge and clearing the way, while it would alternate and switch to the second team with the other party members protecting Raymond and making their way through behind. There could have been so much potential there...
That´s an issue I had with the 3 campaigns; the final parts felt rushed and boring.
soulchilde
Member
That fight is meant to be a cake walk and they say so in the monologue.
Really enjoyed the game as I beat it twice once as a Dwarf Decker and the second with a Elf Mage. Each time a different experience, I ignored Stranglers Bao request to meet with him and
Maximum Law
Also, Fu Keng the Vampire actually turned up in the Wall City and joined me as I fought my way in with my mage as I told her to leave the Producer. With my Decker I told her I didn''t care who she hung around with
Overall, despite the bugs, great experience
The fact that enemies don't drop loot or give exp meant I actually enjoyed finding peaceable solutions because I didn't feel obligated to murder everyone for money.
I feel a lot of wRPGs miss this angle. You always felt poorer for not being a psychopath, even if the game gave rewards for peaceful solutions.
Not that I dislike loot but I appreciated the way this works out for Shadowrun.
I feel a lot of wRPGs miss this angle. You always felt poorer for not being a psychopath, even if the game gave rewards for peaceful solutions.
Not that I dislike loot but I appreciated the way this works out for Shadowrun.
I think Dragonfall had a really good climax. The entire final area didn't feel short, but wasn't a hassle either. There were multiple parts to it, major story beats along the way, and none of it felt like a lazy slapped together series of empty rooms with enemies like HK's did.
LurkerPrime
Member
Yeah, I also think Dragonfall came together really well. Major antagonists were wrapped up in an intelligent and suitably climactic manner. Hong Kong, by comparison, feels rushed and unsatisfying, especially with all the potential that was set up throughout the story.
I have to assume the mini-campaign is going to be the 'true finale.' Somehow.
This also crossed my mind. Would've been awesome.
I have to assume the mini-campaign is going to be the 'true finale.' Somehow.
This also crossed my mind. Would've been awesome.
E_Darkness
Member
I really liked the finale of HK, but actually seeing these points makes me see it had more potential. Also Dragonfall certainly had a more complete feeling ending. (S:HK final missions spoilers)
I'm starting to hope for a DC now. Don't know how possible it will be to do mind especially with Battletech and the S:HK mini-campaign. Though if the mini-campaign turns into a proper finale for the HK runners then I might not care much for a DC in the end (but itd still be nice).
Shadowrun does desperately need a new combat system. Or at least one that feels more dangerous and that your combat choices matter. Because fights are less common in Hong Kong I feel like when they happen then they should be dangerous.
I thought they hit the atmosphere with the music and sfx perfectly.
Now I look at it, the final mission's layout was disappointing. Just going through enemy corridors to get to the other side. Meeting up with the vampire again was cool, wish they stayed with your party until the end, but eh they're a pathetic vampire anyway.
It would've been really neat if you controlled two different parties fighting through The Walled City. Kinda wish this was a thing now.
I rather liked the final boss as well. The first form wasn't especially difficult. I split everyone up to handle the magic streams and they could all handle themselves. The second form was cool. You needing to kill all its minions.
But the final form was disappointing, it should've been a super powerful boss seeing as our entire team is now here to fight it. It just died straight away really, there was no need for you team. Though your character does say that the monster is just binding for time because you seriously hurt it, so I guess plot? But fuck the plot, I want a cool ass final fight with everyone.
And the Yama King doesn't feel like the true villain. It feels like something is missing and that you should be facing Josephine Tsang. I almost felt a bit cheated by the fact we never actually meet her. I thought we would see her when you're rescuing Raymond.
This is a super nitpick, but pls add Gaichu and Racter into the final cutscene. I know they're not necessary characters but if you've got them they are there.
Now I look at it, the final mission's layout was disappointing. Just going through enemy corridors to get to the other side. Meeting up with the vampire again was cool, wish they stayed with your party until the end, but eh they're a pathetic vampire anyway.
It would've been really neat if you controlled two different parties fighting through The Walled City. Kinda wish this was a thing now.
I rather liked the final boss as well. The first form wasn't especially difficult. I split everyone up to handle the magic streams and they could all handle themselves. The second form was cool. You needing to kill all its minions.
But the final form was disappointing, it should've been a super powerful boss seeing as our entire team is now here to fight it. It just died straight away really, there was no need for you team. Though your character does say that the monster is just binding for time because you seriously hurt it, so I guess plot? But fuck the plot, I want a cool ass final fight with everyone.
And the Yama King doesn't feel like the true villain. It feels like something is missing and that you should be facing Josephine Tsang. I almost felt a bit cheated by the fact we never actually meet her. I thought we would see her when you're rescuing Raymond.
This is a super nitpick, but pls add Gaichu and Racter into the final cutscene. I know they're not necessary characters but if you've got them they are there.
I'm starting to hope for a DC now. Don't know how possible it will be to do mind especially with Battletech and the S:HK mini-campaign. Though if the mini-campaign turns into a proper finale for the HK runners then I might not care much for a DC in the end (but itd still be nice).
Shadowrun does desperately need a new combat system. Or at least one that feels more dangerous and that your combat choices matter. Because fights are less common in Hong Kong I feel like when they happen then they should be dangerous.
I feel like in the SR universe, a psychopath would get rich quick
and then burn bright and burn fast with nobody to save them
Pilgrimzero
Member
A that one time it actually happened it was very useful.
I'm nearing the end and I have to say that Dragonfall was the better game. Although I do like the new Matrix (even though the hacking minigame is lame as hell) and Cyberware in this game.
This game seems shorter. The runs aren't as interesting nor is the town hub. I feel like I participated in less combat. Gobbet is the best character of them all though.