-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Shadowrun: Hong Kong |OT| Little Trouble in Big China
- Thread starter cj_iwakura
- Start date
Pilgrimzero
Member
Beat is last night. Easy as pie on "Normal"
As for the ending:
. I apparently didn't talk to the right NPCs to get the "better" ending.
Also, I guess I missed out on what/whoever Maximum Law is.
Gobber is the best character.
Hopefully the next game/DLC takes us back to Seattle.
As for the ending:
I lost Duncan Edit: I mean Raymond
Also, I guess I missed out on what/whoever Maximum Law is.
Gobber is the best character.
Hopefully the next game/DLC takes us back to Seattle.
LurkerPrime
Member
They probably mean
the old man. I've forgotten his name already... In the standard ending he sacrifices himself to sever the connection permanently, trapping him eternally in that other realm. The true/secret ending avoids this.
The
true/secret
E_Darkness
Member
I didn't even realise this was possible.
LurkerPrime
Member
Finally finished the game yesterday. I liked it, but in the end, it does not beat Dragonfall in quality.
During the final mission, the transition icon to progress wasn't interactive, so I had to redo the mission twice before it worked properly. That was a waste of 2 hours of my life. My final playtime according to Steam is 31 hours. I guess that's right if I count some reloads and leaving the game on while doing other stuff.
The writing is a mixed bag. I liked it most of the time, but by the end, I was just quickly skimming NPC dialog in the base hub because it was a bit much to read and not top quality at all times. It also doesn't help that they for some reason felt it is a good idea to have the text to the right for the third time. Just put the text on the lower part of the screen. I don't mind a lot of words in my games. There was a lot of cool stuff to read, but not all of it was good or well written. It's a bit jarring seeing some really well written sections and then some that are clearly not as good. When it comes to the main story: It was decent, just not anything super exciting. I'm not satisfied with the lead up to the ending. I didn't feel that there were enough missions that directly had to do with our main objective. In the end, I say the main story missions were decent, but again not on the level of Dragonfall.
The writing was mostly good during missions, with some misses here and there. Overall, I can't really complain though, but i was not at the same level as Dragonfall. The female companions weren't amazing but still better than Glory and the annoying decker, I always forget his name.
Duncan wasn't bad, but very predictable. I liked Racter and Gaichu. I also like the cyberware dude NPC. The other NPCs, I didn't care much for. The Plastic Faced Man was really underused. I was expecting to see more on that front. I was looking forward to the confrontation with him, the omemtn I have been waiting for finally happens and it turns out to be one of the more underwhelming missions in the game.
I felt that this was the easiest game of the three HBS Shadowrun games. (I do play on Normal.) I got to reload the game once during a run because I accidentally killed an enemy that I wasn't supposed to (and when I had issues with a game breaking bug during the final mission), but not for dying. Gaichu and Racter are incredibly good in combat, and the same goes for is0bel and Duncan. On one hand, I shouldn't complain, because, to be honest, I hate it when games give you companions that you feel suck in combat. I only wish that we could develop the characters as we see fit and have direct control of their inventories. There a few big fights, but mostly there were not as many big ones as Dragonfall DC. The enemy variety wasn't too impressive. Even Returns was better in this regard if I remember correctly.
If they decide to make another game in the vein of the three they have already developed, I hope we get a big overhaul of many things. Loot could be a fun addition, but it isn't a must have. Maybe only have it on special enemies. A more open world structure. I'm not saying open world, just make areas feel more connected. I don't want everything to be self contained. Bigger environments, and in general, make the game feel a bit more alive. I also felt that the game didn't run well. It ended up with me checking framrates and what I saw was a bit surprising. It kept going from 60 to 20, to 60 and so on. The game is very poorly optimized. Or maybe my PC is shit, it has more than half a decade on its neck. User interface is in dire need of a n overhaul. The game was developed for PC, make an interface worth of PC games. Everything from quest log to inventory needs to be redone.
The soundtrack was good. I probably prefer Dragonfall's slightly more, but I'd still say that this was a solid soundtrack that I will probably listen to a couple of times now that I am done with the game. In general, I feel that the atmosphere is actually good. Best of the three games. The game is cool and I am happy to have backed it, yet I feel that it isn't as good as Dragonfall. Not much worse, but it still is a clear second. Much better than Returns, though.
During the final mission, the transition icon to progress wasn't interactive, so I had to redo the mission twice before it worked properly. That was a waste of 2 hours of my life. My final playtime according to Steam is 31 hours. I guess that's right if I count some reloads and leaving the game on while doing other stuff.
The writing is a mixed bag. I liked it most of the time, but by the end, I was just quickly skimming NPC dialog in the base hub because it was a bit much to read and not top quality at all times. It also doesn't help that they for some reason felt it is a good idea to have the text to the right for the third time. Just put the text on the lower part of the screen. I don't mind a lot of words in my games. There was a lot of cool stuff to read, but not all of it was good or well written. It's a bit jarring seeing some really well written sections and then some that are clearly not as good. When it comes to the main story: It was decent, just not anything super exciting. I'm not satisfied with the lead up to the ending. I didn't feel that there were enough missions that directly had to do with our main objective. In the end, I say the main story missions were decent, but again not on the level of Dragonfall.
The writing was mostly good during missions, with some misses here and there. Overall, I can't really complain though, but i was not at the same level as Dragonfall. The female companions weren't amazing but still better than Glory and the annoying decker, I always forget his name.
Duncan wasn't bad, but very predictable. I liked Racter and Gaichu. I also like the cyberware dude NPC. The other NPCs, I didn't care much for. The Plastic Faced Man was really underused. I was expecting to see more on that front. I was looking forward to the confrontation with him, the omemtn I have been waiting for finally happens and it turns out to be one of the more underwhelming missions in the game.
I felt that this was the easiest game of the three HBS Shadowrun games. (I do play on Normal.) I got to reload the game once during a run because I accidentally killed an enemy that I wasn't supposed to (and when I had issues with a game breaking bug during the final mission), but not for dying. Gaichu and Racter are incredibly good in combat, and the same goes for is0bel and Duncan. On one hand, I shouldn't complain, because, to be honest, I hate it when games give you companions that you feel suck in combat. I only wish that we could develop the characters as we see fit and have direct control of their inventories. There a few big fights, but mostly there were not as many big ones as Dragonfall DC. The enemy variety wasn't too impressive. Even Returns was better in this regard if I remember correctly.
If they decide to make another game in the vein of the three they have already developed, I hope we get a big overhaul of many things. Loot could be a fun addition, but it isn't a must have. Maybe only have it on special enemies. A more open world structure. I'm not saying open world, just make areas feel more connected. I don't want everything to be self contained. Bigger environments, and in general, make the game feel a bit more alive. I also felt that the game didn't run well. It ended up with me checking framrates and what I saw was a bit surprising. It kept going from 60 to 20, to 60 and so on. The game is very poorly optimized. Or maybe my PC is shit, it has more than half a decade on its neck. User interface is in dire need of a n overhaul. The game was developed for PC, make an interface worth of PC games. Everything from quest log to inventory needs to be redone.
The soundtrack was good. I probably prefer Dragonfall's slightly more, but I'd still say that this was a solid soundtrack that I will probably listen to a couple of times now that I am done with the game. In general, I feel that the atmosphere is actually good. Best of the three games. The game is cool and I am happy to have backed it, yet I feel that it isn't as good as Dragonfall. Not much worse, but it still is a clear second. Much better than Returns, though.
DouglasteR
Member
Beat it, like it but not love it.
Memorable from the game ? - Only Gaichu.
1 - Dragonfall
2 - Returns
3 - HongKong
Memorable from the game ? - Only Gaichu.
1 - Dragonfall
2 - Returns
3 - HongKong
Shake Appeal
Member
-__________-
A little late there, HBS.
Pilgrimzero
Member
I meant Raymond
Pilgrimzero
Member
That Matrix stuff should have been there Day 1, hell of an oversight.
bati
Member
I seem to have good luck with picking a class in this series. Playing a shaman has been a really good experience - so many charisma and etiquette checks, not to mention super useful buffs. It kinda made me wonder if there are any other good rpgs that I might've missed where charisma is not a dump stat.
And since I can't make new threads yet I'll just ask here - are there any rpgs out there where you finish most of the game by bullshitting npcs and generally talking your way out of sticky situations?
A few that I've played that would somewhat qualify:
- PST
- Fallout 2
- Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
- FNV (this one's a bit of a stretch, I'll admit)
Anything else? I've played Arcanum but I don't remember much about it unfortunately.
And since I can't make new threads yet I'll just ask here - are there any rpgs out there where you finish most of the game by bullshitting npcs and generally talking your way out of sticky situations?
A few that I've played that would somewhat qualify:
- PST
- Fallout 2
- Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
- FNV (this one's a bit of a stretch, I'll admit)
Anything else? I've played Arcanum but I don't remember much about it unfortunately.
You've listed the most popular ones that I know of.
PS:T definitely has the most. Hell, you can talk your way out of the last boss in MULTIPLE ways. So much great writing in that game.
Arcanum has some of that as well, but not to the extent of games like PS:T and Fallout 2. Still a great game, but for other reasons.
Really bummed I didn't get those matrix explanations when I started. It took me a few failed hacks to learn how to do that stuff.
PS:T definitely has the most. Hell, you can talk your way out of the last boss in MULTIPLE ways. So much great writing in that game.
Arcanum has some of that as well, but not to the extent of games like PS:T and Fallout 2. Still a great game, but for other reasons.
Really bummed I didn't get those matrix explanations when I started. It took me a few failed hacks to learn how to do that stuff.
Fallout: New Vegas can be completed by hurting anyone.
You should try out Alpha Protocol. It is possible to stealth your way through most of the game. The exception is boss battles.
The Age of Decadence is an upcoming game that lets you play without killing people. You gotta have the right stats and stuff.
LurkerPrime
Member
There aren't really that many RPGs where diplomatic solutions are viable. A lot of them end up railroading you into combat regardless of what happens, or use talk checks as a way to make the encounter easier, rather than entirely avoidable. Alpha Protocol is probably one of the cooler ones released in the last decade, since the conversation system is so core to the gameplay; there's huge benefits to diplomatic/peaceful approaches peppered throughout it. Wasteland 2's the only other game I can think of where diplomacy could make a significant difference, but the checks are so all over the place that it was a real gamble to rely on it.
The stuff I like is where you disguise as the enemy for a while. Baldur's Gate 2 and KotOR have both done cool stuff with that. I want to say Divinity: Original Sin did as well, but my memory's hazy.
Y'know what, The Witcher series has done both of these things to varying degrees really well, the diplomacy angle better than the disguise stuff. Bluffing enemies in the Witcher is always a lot of fun, because it comes naturally to the character you play.
The stuff I like is where you disguise as the enemy for a while. Baldur's Gate 2 and KotOR have both done cool stuff with that. I want to say Divinity: Original Sin did as well, but my memory's hazy.
Y'know what, The Witcher series has done both of these things to varying degrees really well, the diplomacy angle better than the disguise stuff. Bluffing enemies in the Witcher is always a lot of fun, because it comes naturally to the character you play.
bati
Member
I've played AP but didn't include it because it doesn't really have any social stats. Still a fantastic game though, and you certainly can opt for a non-combat route if you're meticulous in finding dossiers and choosing the right conversation options, but a very large part of the game is still focused on combat and/or stealth and that's not exactly what I'm looking for right now.
AoD has been on my radar for a veeeeeery long time but I'll admit that I'm a bit annoyed with the insanely long dev time and the release date that seems to move further away every time I check the news.
this freaking review
it pre-dates steam punk
also yeah the bosses model is amazing, same with their minion's animations
theres a word for that
it pre-dates steam punk
also yeah the bosses model is amazing, same with their minion's animations
harriet the spy
Member
I am facing an important decision, GAF...
Vindicator or Ares alpha?
(I am a big troll mostly skilled at shooting stuff)
Vindicator or Ares alpha?
(I am a big troll mostly skilled at shooting stuff)
harriet the spy
Member
I accidentally killed
in Neville Ma's mission.
Did she have anything interesting to say?
the vampire lady
Did she have anything interesting to say?
Mechanically, late game spoiler:
she shows up in the final mission to help you out.
Otherwise you just missed out on some dialogue that isn't relevant to the main plot.
bati
Member
Huh, where? I spared her and she didn't appear. Might've been bugged though.
harriet the spy
Member
Doh, I feel kinda bad now. Did she have a good heart or something. or is it just a deal against her life?
edit: this game is either far easier than Dragonfall and Returns, or Street Samourai are just easy mode. Wired reflexes+haste spell+aim spell+cyber eye+ assault rifle + auto reload arm = absolute destruction.
The Walled City
Well, she was just some secretary or something who got bit and ended up helping that TV producer guy out when he got into a car crash. It's actually kind of funny dialogue, but it's only a couple of interactions, so you didn't miss out that much. Just youtube the encounter if you're curious.
Finally had some time to put into this.
3 runs in, I totally love it so far. The beginning is classic Shadowrun and works well, the companions are great, and the best thing is how the gameplay balance is completely different from most RPGs you'll play.
What I mean by that is that I've played 9 hours, and of that I think I fought 4 battles in total which amounted to probably 1 hour at best of game time. The rest is spent mostly in dialogue, exploring, thinking about skills/loadouts and doing matrix stuff. I love that.
3 runs in, I totally love it so far. The beginning is classic Shadowrun and works well, the companions are great, and the best thing is how the gameplay balance is completely different from most RPGs you'll play.
What I mean by that is that I've played 9 hours, and of that I think I fought 4 battles in total which amounted to probably 1 hour at best of game time. The rest is spent mostly in dialogue, exploring, thinking about skills/loadouts and doing matrix stuff. I love that.
bati
Member
Can you be more precise? Because that pretty much covers the entire final mission which is rather long and spread over multiple areas.
afreaknamedpete
Member
I think it depends on what favor you ask of her. If you just get the other actor fired she doesn't show up at the end to help you.
bati
Member
Thanks, this must be it since that's what I asked of her.
cj_iwakura
Member
Mildly disappointed that Algernon hasn't returned. Oh well.
BrokenFiction
Member
codswallop
Member
Well, I've had a crack at the
mission a few times and each time fail because of the
The only thing I haven't tried is restarting the entire level a fourth time on an easier level (playing on normal), or
. Not to mention the level glitching the first time I played it, requiring me to restart.
I pretty much feel like abandoning the game, and never returning to it at this point.
ASIST / rescue Raymond
bullshit countdown and the matrix being chock full of IC. Since the IC are already populated, and don't just appear when failing the stealth parts, I end up slogging far too slowly through the matrix and there's no way I can do it in 10 turns.
The only thing I haven't tried is restarting the entire level a fourth time on an easier level (playing on normal), or
using is0bel instead of my own decker character
I pretty much feel like abandoning the game, and never returning to it at this point.
If is0bel has the
, its possible to get it done before the counter reaches 7
If you are discovered by the sentry, Sniffer on yourself➤Killer➤Erosion, if you don;t one shot it, fuck your luck maybe reset. Every time you are discovered it clicks down the count down.
In IC combat use killer on a high % chance target ➤Summon Assassin ➤ Put sniffer on assassin ➤ Get assassin to killer an IC and hit ➤ Should take out 2 IC in the first round
Next round sniffer yourself and just kill everything with yourself and the assassin
My other main tip is
Expanding on that tip, late game buy Gobbet
speed boost passive
If you are discovered by the sentry, Sniffer on yourself➤Killer➤Erosion, if you don;t one shot it, fuck your luck maybe reset. Every time you are discovered it clicks down the count down.
In IC combat use killer on a high % chance target ➤Summon Assassin ➤ Put sniffer on assassin ➤ Get assassin to killer an IC and hit ➤ Should take out 2 IC in the first round
Next round sniffer yourself and just kill everything with yourself and the assassin
My other main tip is
Buy her an attacker ESP so she has 3 of them
Expanding on that tip, late game buy Gobbet
Dual Blur
codswallop
Member
Yeah, since I have a save just before I jack in, I figure I'll have a crack at save scumming to get a perfect run and see if it's possible with the current crew I've taken. We'll see what happens that way, but if it's no good then I guess I'll restart with a different setup. Of course, the other problem is since the game is so stingy with nuyen I don't really have the option to go back and buy different equipment/ESP for a different approach.
It just feels to me like a massive difficulty spike, and only because of
they've decided will increase tension, except IMO the design of that section is more annoying than exciting. I quite enjoyed that mission up until there.
It just feels to me like a massive difficulty spike, and only because of
an arbitrary counter
I did it with vanilla Is0bel...
It was very close. I didn't know that ESPs reloaded after every fight so I would drop ESPs, kill stuff, get the pass, log out, jack in, run to the thing to input another password, repeat.
It was very close. I didn't know that ESPs reloaded after every fight so I would drop ESPs, kill stuff, get the pass, log out, jack in, run to the thing to input another password, repeat.
I haven't finished dragonfall due to the tower defense matrix fight. I just can't pull myself through it. I just find it such a drag. The Assist mission is a cakewalk compared to that, for me. But I get where you are coming from. Scum save is the way to go for this mission
On my 3/4 playthrough found with ¥ that theres enough but you have to stay with starting gear 'til midgame, then get one lot to tide you over, then late game decide on your final set.
It is worthy investment buying the two things I said for Is0bel & gobbet late game.
For more money:
Giving meta data to Maximum Law will get you ¥/early level programs
Find all paydata.
Sell all unique weapons you don't plan on using.
Don't forget to sell gear you are no longer using.
Playing a character that depends on consumables (shaman, roids/naids) will fuck you over so much.
Don't die, trauma packs are expensive. Try and use your allies consumables as much as possible before using your own.
I've been putting some thought into what I've heard are the game's biggest criticisms, which is the over-abundance of dialogue and being strapped for resources.
To me, you could solve both problems by having a repeatable combat mini-mission from the hub world. Essentially, you could go to a rough neighborhood and clear out some gangsters (on different runs it would be ghouls or cops, whatever). Upon finishing it, you would get a bit of nuyen.
Each time you did the run, you would be paired with random teammates (other runners who have taken the job), which would allow you to try out different combat approaches. Having a way to earn resources would be a godsend for those times where you just need a little bit more to buy that new armor, or spell.
Just giving the players an option to have some combat-oriented gameplay would help those between mission sections where you just can't take another long-winded dialogue from Duncan. Also, it would give you a quick and easy way to try out that new gun you bought, instead of hoping that the next run will actually have a combat scenario.
Edit: To be clear, I don't think that there is "too much" dialogue. I think that there is a definite pacing issue though. There is too much dialogue without other gameplay elements to break it up.
To me, you could solve both problems by having a repeatable combat mini-mission from the hub world. Essentially, you could go to a rough neighborhood and clear out some gangsters (on different runs it would be ghouls or cops, whatever). Upon finishing it, you would get a bit of nuyen.
Each time you did the run, you would be paired with random teammates (other runners who have taken the job), which would allow you to try out different combat approaches. Having a way to earn resources would be a godsend for those times where you just need a little bit more to buy that new armor, or spell.
Just giving the players an option to have some combat-oriented gameplay would help those between mission sections where you just can't take another long-winded dialogue from Duncan. Also, it would give you a quick and easy way to try out that new gun you bought, instead of hoping that the next run will actually have a combat scenario.
Edit: To be clear, I don't think that there is "too much" dialogue. I think that there is a definite pacing issue though. There is too much dialogue without other gameplay elements to break it up.
cj_iwakura
Member
My financial solution is simple: get the finest Mage gear, and let the team fend for themselves.
LurkerPrime
Member
There really isn't. That's actually where Hong Kong has triumphed the most--going to great lengths to offer multiple solutions to encounters, both in and out of combat. Hong Kong is at its weakest near the end,
where it feels rushed, abruptly ending with some plot threads left dangling.
So, if anything, Hong Kong needed more writing.
I totally agree about the gameplay options presented throughout the game. My biggest gripe is between missions you would have long winded NPC conversation after long winded npc conversation with nothing to break it up besides abandoning the content to go on another run.
With the ability to do runs without ever entering combat is entirely possible to go long stretches without any other gameplay besides reading and selecting current menu options.
Thats fine. I've had enough games where you replace that with combat. And the money thing needs some balancing but allowing generic any time missions would totally break the economy like in nearly every other RPG. How often do we get an RPG where you wont be able to afford everything and might actually have to prioritize?
cj_iwakura
Member
Is it just me or were the three people playing Go at the hub all portrayed by the same portrait? Very jarring.
cj_iwakura
Member
Wow, I didn't even notice.
I don't think the game has "too much dialogue" at all. But there is a text presentation problem. This is something they should really consider tweaking at some point. The game is extremely dense with text descriptions, but that's mixed in with the dialogue as well, and it can be a bit hard to read when they're all one huge paragraph and placed on the right side of the screen in a small window. A larger text window which is centered would feel much better.
cj_iwakura
Member
I'm hard pressed to think of any RPG as rich with text descriptions since maybe Torment.