This game just cannot get any GAF hype...
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Splinter Cell Blacklist (anti)hype thread | Experience All 5 Stages of Ironside Loss
- Thread starter Sober
- Start date
This game just cannot get any GAF hype...
There is no hype at all anywhere, bomba is the impression I'm getting (2mil copies)
legacyzero
Banned
I certainly hooe it does better than that. This honestly looks like a decent Splinter Cell.
Spy Versus Merc will have me double dipping.
Spy Versus Merc will have me double dipping.
According to Zack Cooper on the official forums there are supposed to be new SvM videos coming within the next week. As is the Steam entry for the game, for any PC gamers in the crowd.
Given how the marketing is going maybe I should submit my resume to ubisoft's marketing department.
Given how the marketing is going maybe I should submit my resume to ubisoft's marketing department.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I am still on the fence about getting this and I'm not sure why. The only SC games I didn't get on with were PA and DA, so it isn't the Conviction-ness of it... I wish I could pin-point what the problem is.
Great thread, btw.
Great thread, btw.
A bad hybrid between the two.
Wait I've just realised that it's weirdly similar to the plot of MGS4
"Stealth" games that try to please too many audiences end up being disjointed messes that are neither good at action or stealth. But this works for any genre, really.
See: Conviction, Absolution and MGS 4.
Samir Sedlar
Member
well they released tons of videos, tons of gameplay, around 4 places gameplay ((maybe more)), some Spy vs Merc, tons of previews, .............etc
& It is still not resonating with people.
Gun Animal
Member
I'm liking killing in motion, glad someone's finally trying to move away from twitchy manual aiming---it only really works the way it should on PCs, consoles have been needing an alternative for years and assisted aiming just doesn't cut it. It shifts the focus from reflexes and towards tactics.
What was wrong with the gameplay (besides the boss fights and those two awful rail shooting segments) in MGS4?
What was wrong with the gameplay (besides the boss fights and those two awful rail shooting segments) in MGS4?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
^This.
More powerful 'open' combat options tend to negate the actual need to be stealthy, which is the principle idea behind a good stealth game; the player is the weakest playing piece and is forced to rely on their singular advantage: the ability to hide or move stealthily.
'Predatory' stealth games were a nice diversion for a while, but it would be even nicer to see at least one big budget game return to 'pure' stealth mechanics, y'know?
I loved Splinter Cell, Chaos Theory and, to a lesser extent (and for reasons Bourne of a different cloth), Conviction. There is, however, something off about Blacklist... I cannot put my finger on it.
I see where you are coming from, but I have no problem with free-aiming on consoles. MP3 proved you can play a shooter on a gamepad and still retain precision.
The on-rail moments were fan service, so it is a little unfair to have a go at them when the game was, for good or ill, a compilation of MGS' greatest moments. The problem with the gameplay in MGS4 is two-fold:
A) Not enough of it
B) Old Snake was far and away too powerful, negating the need to be stealthy (the USP of the MGS series to date). You could very easily shoot your way out of any situation, even on the very hardest levels. Two armies fighting? No problem, Old Snake can kill every single one of them with his vast array of weaponary. Such a feat would've been much more difficult in previous installments; only partially due to the control system (which I preferred, frankly).
Michael Ironside, probably.
Conviction was half baked, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they actually owned up to their mistakes and are trying to correct them in Blacklist. Remains to be seen if it'll pan out though.
Absolution I did not follow the dev cycle too closely but when I played it ... well it was a pretty decent stealth game but definitely not of the Hitman variety, which was the real reason I was disappointed with H:A.
If you don't mind some mild spoilers you can watch the SDCC footage Gamespot recorded as it definitely showed even on normal that combat is still a tough nut and leaping out into stealth without observation can end quickly and poorly.
But with "AAA stealth" titles they are going to aim for some action features so if that's scarilege for you then I won't blame you for not buying it but I wish some people would just take a step back and realize they can't go back to when all you needed was to have stealth only, expect it to sell super well and have a AAA budget. You can only have two of the three here. I hate it but that's the plain truth of it these days.
I'm all for indies or someone trying a smaller budget title that focuses on stealth but those are pretty rare these days. All we can hope for is the dev team assigned to a franchise with a stealth pedigree realizes they should put a ton of focus on it (that is, creating a systemic game for stealth gameplay to take advantage of) even if they pretty much have to make it slightly more accessible by letting the PC become a bit more efficient in combat or something.
doniewhalberg
Member
Personally pretty amped for this. Don't have alot of room for current gen games this fall around saving for next gen, but this is one I've made room for. I really liked Conviction though, so that probably puts me at a different angle to others. Big fan of 24 and the game pretty much felt like the perfect 24 game, so it worked on other levels beyond just Splinter Cell for me.
Did they ever say if the Wii U version would eliminate local split screen and give you one player on tv, one on the pad? I preordered on 360 since I assume it's a no, but still wondering
Did they ever say if the Wii U version would eliminate local split screen and give you one player on tv, one on the pad? I preordered on 360 since I assume it's a no, but still wondering
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
XD Nah, I was never that attached.
There is no harm in including 'action' features in a stealth game, there are very few that don't have them in some form or another. It is (as you mentioned) when those features outweigh the benefits of playing stealthily that you have a problem with your stealth title.
Arkham Asylum had their predatory nuts and bolts balanced pretty well; you simply couldn't take on an aware, gun-toting thug head on without getting bully-rammed.
BTW I'm not poo-pooing all over Blacklist... I've not played it, so have no idea if they have balanced it successfully. If I have the money spare after Payday 2 and GTA V, I'll certainly consider dipping in.
It doesn't excel at action or stealth, it's mediocre at both. The game was designed around the idea that you can play freeform, however you want to, which sounds nice but doesn't work well.
So, for example, the OctoCamo is op and lets you hide extremely easily with no repercussions. Just wait half a sec and there you go, you're hidden in plain sight.
Enemy AI is too dumb to challenge the player when using stealth.
Then you try to play it as an action game and it's sort of a bad TPS with weird shooting mechanics, but you're rewarded for killing people and taking their ammo to spend on ammo and weapons.
The emphasis on gun and gunplay really deemphasizes stealth. You can shoot your way through the game with no problems.
Past MG games did not reward the player for killing. If you're killing people, you should just re-load your save by that point.
I actually think Act 3 is the saving grace in terms of stealth for MGS 4. And Act 3 is awful.
Hitman is another example. They tried to make a different type of stealth game that is a huge departure from classic gameplay. Hitman was about having a sandbox level where you kill your target however you please. It is now about linear stealth sections where you duck and cover to slip through enemies/kill them.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Although I entirely agree with those points, there were genuine flashes of brilliance (read: the Blood Money forumla in Streets of Hope, the cornfield in Attack of the Saints, Hunter & Hunted etc.) and the crowd mechanic... man, that was simply awesome.
Having said that, for every amazing moment there were equally terrible ones...
a fucking barfight, really IO?!
I enjoyed it for what it was and I agree with the flashes of brilliance, that problem is that they let the storyline take control of the game direction. There's absolutely no reason not to have every level be like those, the reasoning is that they were trying to tell a story and those types of levels did not fit their storytelling as much as modeling an entire building and street to buy a suit.
I disagree that Conviction was half-baked. They knew exactly what they wanted and where they were headed. If anything, Blacklist is far more half-baked than Conviction because they don't know what to do and who to please. They're stuck between having a budget too high for classic SC fans to support it and not enough resources to create a pioneer game that manages to perfectly balance both play styles.
They need to re-evaluate the franchise as a whole and its status as a big money maker. But I'd rather have a guaranteed 2 million sales with a smaller budget and classic gameplay than invest a lot of money trying to impress the CoD crowd and coming up short.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Gun Animal
Member
That's an interesting, I never really knew that's how classic stealth games were seen, even. MGS4 was basically my first exposure to stealth gameplay and what I found appealing was that it gave me the option to take a harder, moral path: tip-toe around enemies and avoid taking life at all costs. I liked it because finally I can play a big budget game where I don't have to kill a bunch of people! Killing people isn't fun to me, and modern stealth games with a "pacifist option" appeal to me because it's considered a display of skill to deliberately not kill people rather than the other way around.
Pun of the year.
Agreed. Would you agree that Max Payne 3 was almost entirely about high-octane reflex-focused gameplay rather than deliberate tactics? I'm just saying I think it makes more sense for a tactical or nu-stealth (here i'm defining nu-stealth as action/adventure games where you can actively choose to avoid combat) game to have a set number of people you can take by surprise before getting injured or killed, and killing in motion accomplishes that.
You were able to ignore enemies and run from room to room in MGS2 and MGS3. I'm glad you can, otherwise a lot of people would have missed out on some amazing stories. Hell, I've pretty much just been panicking and gunning my way through Chaos Theory... are we all playing the same game, here?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Absolutely, pacifist play is a power fantasy of it's own, in the vein of "IT WAS I WHO LET YOU LIVE, PUNY GUARD-PIG" *darts off into the night*
I played MGO2 exclusively using non-lethal methods. MGS has offerred this option since the beginning, although actual non-lethal weaponry only came about in MGS2.
Oh you...
Shit, yeah. Although, Bullet-tiem tends to negate some of the twitch... and looks amazing to boot.
I see your point. On top of that, 'Killing in Motion' and 'Mark & Execute' are very cool mechanics to watch.
I dunno, I'd prefer to have more control over it. Completely automatic gameplay elements take away the need for skill and act as a utilitarian crutch. Shouldn't a player's ability figure into tactical concerns? Shouldn't there be that element of chance in planning?
Perhaps they could implement THE MOST OVERUSED GAME MECHANIC OF ALL-TIME (which is also rather handily my favourite) Bullet-time to give players a little leeway...? ;D
XD
Do you not die a lot in CT because of it...? Are you finding that head-on encounters are desperate, close calls where you only get through by the skin of your teeth? No? Well, you're better than me! Those three games always punished me for fudging up and rightfully so. MGS4 makes me feel like Arnie circa Commando. No matter the outcome, I'm the one standing a top a holocaust's worth of mook flesh.
Like I said, combat options are fine, so long as they don't outstrip the stealth ones considerably.
I think I meant in more in the case that it had a fairly troubled development that wanted to be social stealth for a while (the delicious irony when paired against Absolution) before basically retuning to regular light/shadow based sneakery.
It was fairly half-baked in the sense that the SP and MP(coop) were somewhat at odds with another where they played the same but SP was extremely linear while Deniable Ops evoked more of the old Splinter Cel/Chaos Theory style of systemic play.
Read this article. I think at the very least it is a fascinating look at how they want to approach stealth in Blacklist. They have some of the larger points down, like making sure it is systemic. I think predatory stealth is here to stay regardless, so the best they can do is try to, as they have put it, Trojan horse old school stealth to people who would otherwise not try it.
You can mark and execute with non-lethal guns! Hilarious to watch.
New Ghost, Panther & Assault Trailer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ehXjT4LtHs
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
From the article:
From me earlier:
Indisputable evidence that they should hire me, Screaming Meat, for their next game.
Here's an interview with Maxime Beland by Escapist at SDCC as he tries to play the London map.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_VkPBlmw2I
-Some factoids he points out: about 2-3 sequences in the game will be forced but can still be done non-lethally, possibly undetected. Yeah, the mission pace suddenly changes but this isn't anything out of left field in a Splinter Cell game
-also points out/confirms the no-kill trophy is when you play SP Sam Fisher and that you will take control of other characters in the story mode. Some spoilers but it's already been mentioned by press previews
although it wouldn't surprise me if (speculation)
-but mostly he does talk a bit about stealth, and the development process as creative director and what that entails.
-he also gets detected and diesssssssss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_VkPBlmw2I
-Some factoids he points out: about 2-3 sequences in the game will be forced but can still be done non-lethally, possibly undetected. Yeah, the mission pace suddenly changes but this isn't anything out of left field in a Splinter Cell game
-also points out/confirms the no-kill trophy is when you play SP Sam Fisher and that you will take control of other characters in the story mode. Some spoilers but it's already been mentioned by press previews
you cut to Briggs to snipe people or control a UAV to clear the way
they pull off a No Russian/play as the terrorists situation because they think it will be edgy
-but mostly he does talk a bit about stealth, and the development process as creative director and what that entails.
-he also gets detected and diesssssssss
doniewhalberg
Member
Haha, well, I think we probably know it won't run any better than the other versions. Still, it'd be nice to know definitively what the pad features are. On the twitter account they wouldn't even tell me if the ogn will be sold separately at some point or not haha.
That's actually interesting, now let me pull the trigger and I'll be fine and dandy.
Jaded Alyx
Member
Well we did get that Wii U specific trailer showing off the Gamepad usage.
Scroll up.
loganclaws
Plane Escape Torment
Is the spies vs mercs using the same modern engine this time or still the old engine?
Jaded Alyx
Member
Then you'll love Desu Ex; HR if you haven't played it yet.
doniewhalberg
Member
Yup, Splinter Cell Echoes, an original graphic novel they've had done, set between conviction and blacklist. I think it says alot about the game's dreadful vague PR that you haven't heard of it, despite being a poster on gaf. It has a really good team working on it too. Nathan Edmondson, who writes a fantastic monthly called the activity, fact based fiction about the NSA, very cool guy and writer. Marc Lambing is the artist, who infrequently works on the activity too, amongst other stuff, it's a great team and far away from the usual cash in level worker you often get on these projects. These guys are pro's at military/spy fiction, so the OGN is exciting before you factor in their getting to play with the splinter cell franchise. I'd like to buy a nice HC copy oppose to whatever they pack in with the collector's edition of BL but as I mentioned, PR will barely talk about it, let alone confirm stuff like "will I be able to pay you money for this?"
Thanks for the link, I had seen that vid. That stuff looks really cool, but imo the big draw in getting the Wii U version over 360 would be if they eliminate split screen and do one screen and another, like in lego batman 2. That would be a real clincher. Those questions have went ignored too unfortunately.
Gun Animal
Member
My man! Non-lethal weapons made MGO2 the best online game for griefing and humiliation in existence. Nothing more fun than sneaking up behind some red-clad shootbanger straight out of Call a' Duty, wrestling him to the ground unconscious, dancing around on his sleeping body for a minute and a half and blowing him into the air just as he's about to wake up.
And box-switching! Oh, the memories... I miss that game. I agree with the rest of your points mostly, bullet time might be a better solution than killing in motion, I'm just glad there's someone experimenting. One thing worth noting is that just about every nu-stealth game out there has a difficulty setting that turns it into a classical stealth game, the only issue is that those difficulty settings are always locked from the beginning, and sometimes they're even locked after your first playthrough! That's dumb. If the concern is that new players who think too highly of themselves would pick the highest difficulty and then be turned off, they could at least allow you to access it with a code or something.
Redding by way of Meat said:
Yes exactly. people play videogames (according to MGS2 and Spec Ops: the Line anyways) to feel like heroes, but killing hundreds of people doesn't feel heroic to me.
Zep said:
I'm looking at the art book on my coffee table. But... those dang boss fights...
rvy said:
I think you're coming from the perspective that challenge is a fundamental element of gameplay and that it's required for a game to be good or functional, I've beaten God Hand and so many Bullet Hells so I can appreciate that. Look, just look at games like MGS4 as being in the same class as Noby Noby Boy; less obstacle course, more playground.
Yeah agreed, gears of war cover mechanics are slowly but surely infecting every genre and franchise there is. In ten years, Gran Turismo 12 and Final Fantasy XXXI will both have cover systems. In the grim darkness of the far future, there are only chest-high walls.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
This made me spit coffee all over my keyboard.
EDIT (and totally off-topic): You may appreciate this from back when I had a PS3.
Yo, fuck actual news or new tidbits of information. I come to bring you this fan video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-WGYnD00PVQ
Also two things: I still haven't ever completed the co-op campaigns for Chaos Theory or Conviction, so if anyone wants to help finish them off (on PC) lemme know.
Oh, and I believe I'm too far down the rabbit hole to come up with a decent tagline that is too stupidly impossible to decipher and is anything but a terrible in-joke with myself and the odd group of weirdos on the official forums I watch going batshit insane right now. So what I'm asking for is for the best taglines for the OT you got, you can go ahead and hate the game as hard as you want, honestly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-WGYnD00PVQ
Also two things: I still haven't ever completed the co-op campaigns for Chaos Theory or Conviction, so if anyone wants to help finish them off (on PC) lemme know.
Oh, and I believe I'm too far down the rabbit hole to come up with a decent tagline that is too stupidly impossible to decipher and is anything but a terrible in-joke with myself and the odd group of weirdos on the official forums I watch going batshit insane right now. So what I'm asking for is for the best taglines for the OT you got, you can go ahead and hate the game as hard as you want, honestly.
doniewhalberg
Member
Ugggh, I was so in til pc
Likewise, I have never finished Conviction's co-op on 360, none of my friends have any interest in the series so it's a lost cause (outside of doing it alone), disappointing since there's some story content in there.I dunno breh, what makes a good tag line: humorous, relates to game design and possibly a pun.....
Splinter Cell: Blacklist OT: Into the Darkness
OT: Fade to Black
OT: Bigger, Blacker and Uncut
OT: Splinter Cell: African American List
*shrug*
doniewhalberg
Member
For those looking for more information on the Wii U version, looks like we might have more coming soon. After several attempts at asking on the twitter account, facebook and so on (and duely ignored), I gave the official forums a go regarding off tv play etc and this is what I got:
Click
It's not much, but hopefully we'll know before launch at least, more than we know about some Wii U ports. Also, yes, my posts may have been written in a sickenly grovelling tone, but I wanted the thread to be noticed haha
Click
It's not much, but hopefully we'll know before launch at least, more than we know about some Wii U ports. Also, yes, my posts may have been written in a sickenly grovelling tone, but I wanted the thread to be noticed haha
Convicted, Dishonored, Absoluted
Really loved Conviction and I think I'll get it since it's kinda cheap, nice thread
Really loved Conviction and I think I'll get it since it's kinda cheap, nice thread