Support NeoGAF

[KtSlime]

If they're looking at the Japanese market and not worldwide, then that'd be one more in a long line of mistakes being made.

Sure, and who makes mistakes as well and frequently as SE?

 

[Some Nobody]

Sure, and who makes mistakes as well and frequently as SE?

Fair enough. Long as we seem to be on the same page.

 

[theofficefan99]

Who would they sell it to? Let's be really generous and give them an attach rate of 40%, even though the series is in decline, and let's say that it can push just as many consoles as the 13 did, we're at maybe .8 million PS4s, when is best to launch it? If they launch it in fall/winter and a miracle happened and we were up to 1 million PS4s then what, SE blows their load selling ~750,000 copies?, not even half what 13 sold? Yeah, not going to happen, sorry but you're going to have to wait like everyone else.

Wut.... the PS4 is selling extraordinarily well, and I'm not expecting FFXV to come out until mid-next year at the very earliest (April/May), which would be plenty of time for the install base to grow. And let's not forget that the game is also being released on the Xbox One, along with a potential PC release down the line, something they reportedly have been strongly considering.

 

[KtSlime]

Wut.... the PS4 is selling extraordinarily well, and I'm not expecting FFXV to come out until mid-next year at the very earliest (April/May), which would be plenty of time for the install base to grow. And let's not forget that the game is also being released on the Xbox One, along with a potential PC release down the line, something they reportedly have been strongly considering.

So that we're straight, you want a Japanese developed game, but you don't want the developer to actually care about how well it performs in Japan? News to you maybe, the PS4 is not healthy here, and there is really no reason to expect it to be healthy enough by Spring next year. The Xbox One is a non-factor here, as it is only getting released in September, and probably won't sell well at all, as it suffers from many of the same problems the PS4 does here.

I just don't see them going to give up on the Japanese market with the franchise, Final Fantasy is one of the few games that can sell over a million here, and I imagine they want to keep it performing near those levels for as long as possible.

Fair enough. Long as we seem to be on the same page.

I believe we are.

Edit: Oh and a correction is needed, I mistakenly claimed that the PS4 was close to 800k here, it's not, it's around 580k and selling less than 10k a week.

 

[Cloud Strife]

So that we're straight, you want a Japanese developed game, but you don't want the developer to actually care about how well it performs in Japan? News to you maybe, the PS4 is not healthy here, and there is really no reason to expect it to be healthy enough by Spring next year. The Xbox One is a non-factor here, as it is only getting released in September, and probably won't sell well at all, as it suffers from many of the same problems the PS4 does here.

I just don't see them going to give up on the Japanese market with the franchise, Final Fantasy is one of the few games that can sell over a million here, and I imagine they want to keep it performing near those levels for as long as possible.

.

 

[Philippo]

Any chance for them having a private FFXV event in the upcoming months (at worst at TGS) like they did in 2011 (1st production party or something similar)?
I know that interview from Thailandia is rather unreliable, but iirc Hashimoto said they're preparing for something special, maybe that's it (lol @mentioning Comic Con).

 

[Some Nobody]

So that we're straight, you want a Japanese developed game, but you don't want the developer to actually care about how well it performs in Japan? News to you maybe, the PS4 is not healthy here, and there is really no reason to expect it to be healthy enough by Spring next year. The Xbox One is a non-factor here, as it is only getting released in September, and probably won't sell well at all, as it suffers from many of the same problems the PS4 does here.

I just don't see them going to give up on the Japanese market with the franchise, Final Fantasy is one of the few games that can sell over a million here, and I imagine they want to keep it performing near those levels for as long as possible.



I believe we are.

Edit: Oh and a correction is needed, I mistakenly claimed that the PS4 was close to 800k here, it's not, it's around 580k and selling less than 10k a week.

Attach rate for XV in Japan would probably be ridiculous anyway. But yeah, "focusing on Japan" is nice and all, but if they can put enough hype behind this title and find the right time to release it, they could get more than a million worldwide--much more.

 

[Asd202]

Well if SE was smart they would make a PC version to release on Steam not only to counter the declining sales of the Japanese market but to actually sell more copies but they won't do that because they are stupid.

 

[SirNinja]

Well if SE was smart they would make a PC version to release on Steam not only to counter the declining sales of the Japanese market but to actually sell more copies but they won't do that because they are stupid.

They actually are very interested in bringing various titles to PC. Although they admit they're not as experienced as they'd like to be with the platform, the interest in that market is definitely there.

 

[theofficefan99]

So that we're straight, you want a Japanese developed game, but you don't want the developer to actually care about how well it performs in Japan? News to you maybe, the PS4 is not healthy here, and there is really no reason to expect it to be healthy enough by Spring next year. The Xbox One is a non-factor here, as it is only getting released in September, and probably won't sell well at all, as it suffers from many of the same problems the PS4 does here.

I just don't see them going to give up on the Japanese market with the franchise, Final Fantasy is one of the few games that can sell over a million here, and I imagine they want to keep it performing near those levels for as long as possible.



I believe we are.

Edit: Oh and a correction is needed, I mistakenly claimed that the PS4 was close to 800k here, it's not, it's around 580k and selling less than 10k a week.

With this logic, there was no point in re-revealing it in 2013 and they might as well never release it. FF is a big seller worldwide, and it's also a system-seller. By mid-2015 it'll be able to achieve great sales across the two platforms worldwide, especially because, y'know, FF is typically regarded as a system seller.

 

[Toth]

You'd be pretty wrong about that one.

Well, that is not entirely true. Each patch has released gear that has effectively nullified the gear before it, making gear progression to be very erratic and rather unrewarding. The next patch will probably have Crystal Tower gear at lower item levels than the current end game gear. The storylines are nice but once you get through with them, its basically be part of a Coil static with rare chances to get items you want once a week and then spend everyday doing one of the same random three dungeons for soldierty tombstones till you cap for the week.

 

[MagiusNecros]

With this logic, there was no point in re-revealing it in 2013 and they might as well never release it. FF is a big seller worldwide, and it's also a system-seller. By mid-2015 it'll be able to achieve great sales across the two platforms worldwide, especially because, y'know, FF is typically regarded as a system seller.

Sup officefan. If you are who I think you are then welcome to GAF.

While FF can indeed be a system seller I have long seen FF start to tread the path of obscurity and steadily stagnate. I am hopeful XV can attempt to reverse this outlook in conjunction with XIV which is doing well, however what is needed is information about SE's product's and that information apparently is kept locked away and it's disconcerting when SE repeatedly implies they will be more open with information and immediately go back into secrecy. It's quite ridiculous.

 

[theofficefan99]

Sup officefan. If you are who I think you are then welcome to GAF.

While FF can indeed be a system seller I have long seen FF start to tread the path of obscurity and steadily stagnate. I am hopeful XV can attempt to reverse this outlook in conjunction with XIV which is doing well, however what is needed is information about SE's product's and that information apparently is kept locked away and it's disconcerting when SE repeatedly implies they will be more open with information and immediately go back into secrecy. It's quite ridiculous.

I agree with you there, which is why I'm a little worried, myself. But I think it'd be absolutely stupid for this game to not show up at E3 with, at the very least, a brand new trailer.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I agree with you there, which is why I'm a little worried, myself. But I think it'd be absolutely stupid for this game to not show up at E3 with, at the very least, a brand new trailer.

Odds are is that it will be at E3 except just regurgitating an old trailer with a few seconds of footage. I don't think it will have much presence. I would love to be wrong. But Kagari's implications on the matter basically solidifies the notion that major FF games get their stage presence at TGS.

 

[dramatis]

Talking strictly current-gen here, aka WiiU/XboxOne/PS4. Although I do have to admit I'm being a little biased since I personally don't care for MMO's.

With this logic, there was no point in re-revealing it in 2013 and they might as well never release it. FF is a big seller worldwide, and it's also a system-seller. By mid-2015 it'll be able to achieve great sales across the two platforms worldwide, especially because, y'know, FF is typically regarded as a system seller.

More than just a 'little' biased. Rather than biased against MMOs, I think you're so frenzied about 15 absolutely showing up at E3 that you're not acknowledging or dismissing the myriad of other strong reasons for why it won't show up. You didn't even realize that SE owns Eidos (has for five years), what makes you think you have a sense of what is even going on?

2013 was an important year for SE, in that they:

• Rebooted FF14 successfully, which their ex-CEO openly admitted was a failure
• Said ex-CEO left the company
• Showed trailer of FF15 at E3
• Announced KH3

These are all tied into improving the image of the company, especially the Japan-side, because the perception of SE Japan for almost all of last generation was that of incompetent development, broken products, stagnant ideas, and that they were falling behind their western peers. That is why SE re-revealed 15 and announced KH3 at E3 last year, because marketing. They needed to demonstrate SE Japan is still actually quite capable of making big budget games that look on par with or better than western games. They needed to show that even with problem children like FF13 and FF14, they can fix the damage to the FF brand. It's as much for their shareholders and business as it is for fans.

Were the re-reveal and the announcement of KH3 premature? Most likely. But they had to fixate on the 2013 year because bunching all of these changes together gives credibility to the sense that "SE's changed". They didn't have a choice after showing up at the Playstation Meeting in February with the same old demo video and a guy saying "Please be excited". Even Japan roasted SE for that, especially since Ono from Capcom came on stage with Deep Down.

Reasons why 15 will not show:

• Resources and time focused on developing game rather than developing marketing material for the game.
• Focus on the products of the western studios, which were probably in the middle of development last year (roughly where FF15 is probably today).
• If the western studios' games are close enough to the finish line, focusing attention on those games instead of showing another 15 trailer would be extremely beneficial to those games because
• E3 is crowded. There's a ton of other juggernauts fighting for the spotlight. You may not personally care to see any game except 15, but E3 is a convention for many games, not a convention for FF15.
• Moreover, if 15 is not ready for release within a year, then it is definitely better for business to focus on promoting games that are actually ready to release within a year.

Arguments like 'biggest project' and 'FF mainline' do not override or address any of the concerns listed above. Your insistence on this continues to baffle.

Well, that is not entirely true. Each patch has released gear that has effectively nullified the gear before it, making gear progression to be very erratic and rather unrewarding. The next patch will probably have Crystal Tower gear at lower item levels than the current end game gear. The storylines are nice but once you get through with them, its basically be part of a Coil static with rare chances to get items you want once a week and then spend everyday doing one of the same random three dungeons for soldierty tombstones till you cap for the week.

Looks like somebody knows how to regurgitate talking points.

 

[birthbysleep]

If it's not showing up and Kagari knows it then her site contest thing is nothing more than for hits.

 

[Kagari]

If it's not showing up and Kagari knows it then her site contest thing is nothing more than for hits.

Uh? We're giving away free stuff to people who guess the right answer. Also I didn't organize it, so don't blame me.

 

[Toth]

Looks like somebody knows how to regurgitate talking points.

What? You do play 14, right? It's an obvious criticism.

 

[Cloud Strife]

With this logic, there was no point in re-revealing it in 2013 and they might as well never release it. FF is a big seller worldwide, and it's also a system-seller. By mid-2015 it'll be able to achieve great sales across the two platforms worldwide, especially because, y'know, FF is typically regarded as a system seller.

Again, the reason they showed it last year was because of the next-gen reveal. Additionally the reason why there was NO RELEASE DATE LAST YEAR was to generate hype. Think of it as "yes this is what we have cooking, please be excited", obviously there was no install base last year because this was the reason.

This year, as other have mentioned, the install base isn't that large yet. Will they repeat the same thing as last year with no release date? Maybe, but it makes more sense for it to be at TGS, given the fiscal account, the time, and what we've been saying above.

Again, this whole argument is predicated on "what makes sense", so as much as you want to say that "we just don't know", that's a given. Based on what we know, it makes less sense for XV to be at E3 and more sense for it to be revealed later on. Could we be wrong? Sure. But it's more logical to side with the side with greater objective proof than subjective or vague proof. i.e. What Hashimoto says or that XV is their flagship title that they'll show for that reason alone.

 

[botty]

[*]E3 is crowded. There's a ton of other juggernauts fighting for the spotlight. You may not personally care to see any game except 15, but E3 is a convention for many games, not a convention for FF15.
[*]Moreover, if 15 is not ready for release within a year, then it is definitely better for business to focus on promoting games that are actually ready to release within a year.
[/LIST]
Arguments like 'biggest project' and 'FF mainline' do not override or address any of the concerns listed above. Your insistence on this continues to baffle.

I don't get these points.

FF15 is arguably the most anticipated game of all time on a global scale. XV would be the juggernaut of games at e3, as it was last year. It really doesn't need to fight for attention because it commands it.

And Squaresoft has been showing FFXV for years now, for no reason at all but to prove it exists, so I find it odd that they would suddenly think it better for business to not show it.

 

[theofficefan99]

More than just a 'little' biased. Rather than biased against MMOs, I think you're so frenzied about 15 absolutely showing up at E3 that you're not acknowledging or dismissing the myriad of other strong reasons for why it won't show up. You didn't even realize that SE owns Eidos (has for five years), what makes you think you have a sense of what is even going on?

2013 was an important year for SE, in that they:

• Rebooted FF14 successfully, which their ex-CEO openly admitted was a failure
• Said ex-CEO left the company
• Showed trailer of FF15 at E3
• Announced KH3

These are all tied into improving the image of the company, especially the Japan-side, because the perception of SE Japan for almost all of last generation was that of incompetent development, broken products, stagnant ideas, and that they were falling behind their western peers. That is why SE re-revealed 15 and announced KH3 at E3 last year, because marketing. They needed to demonstrate SE Japan is still actually quite capable of making big budget games that look on par with or better than western games. They needed to show that even with problem children like FF13 and FF14, they can fix the damage to the FF brand. It's as much for their shareholders and business as it is for fans.

Were the re-reveal and the announcement of KH3 premature? Most likely. But they had to fixate on the 2013 year because bunching all of these changes together gives credibility to the sense that "SE's changed". They didn't have a choice after showing up at the Playstation Meeting in February with the same old demo video and a guy saying "Please be excited". Even Japan roasted SE for that, especially since Ono from Capcom came on stage with Deep Down.

Reasons why 15 will not show:

• Resources and time focused on developing game rather than developing marketing material for the game.
• Focus on the products of the western studios, which were probably in the middle of development last year (roughly where FF15 is probably today).
• If the western studios' games are close enough to the finish line, focusing attention on those games instead of showing another 15 trailer would be extremely beneficial to those games because
• E3 is crowded. There's a ton of other juggernauts fighting for the spotlight. You may not personally care to see any game except 15, but E3 is a convention for many games, not a convention for FF15.
• Moreover, if 15 is not ready for release within a year, then it is definitely better for business to focus on promoting games that are actually ready to release within a year.

Arguments like 'biggest project' and 'FF mainline' do not override or address any of the concerns listed above. Your insistence on this continues to baffle.


Looks like somebody knows how to regurgitate talking points.

I do know that SE owns Eidos. What makes you think I didn't know that? By saying that they publish their games, not develop them? Because that's true.

You're absolutely right about the E3 2013 stuff. Spot-on. Can't argue with you there.


Your argument makes sense, but it also just goes to show that there's so many potential factors and we're left in the dark so we don't know for sure. It depends how far away the game is from release and none of us have any idea; 2015? 2016? Who knows?


However, based on what I've already quoted and linked in this topic, with SE stating that they want to release the game as fast as possible, that the game is quite far into development, that it's a high priority in the company, that development is going smoothly, and with them wanting to show things for XV/KH3 "not only in June," I'd say that the game will be coming out sooner (2015) rather than later (2016).

 

[kayos90]

Your argument makes sense, but it also just goes to show that there's so many potential factors and we're left in the dark so we don't know for sure. It depends how far away the game is from release and none of us have any idea; 2015? 2016? Who knows?

Your many arguments hinge on this idea so much. If there is so many potential factors and so munch information we don't know, how does it not validate your idea equally to dramatis' or Kagari's or mine for that matter? You're using an unknown factor to uplift your argument when there is no sound basis for either side. The idea supports both sides equally or none at all. You're misusing the lack of evidence.

However, based on what I've already quoted and linked in this topic, with SE stating that they want to release the game as fast as possible, that the game is quite far into development, that it's a high priority in the company, that development is going smoothly, and with them wanting to show things for XV/KH3 "not only in June," I'd say that the game will be coming out sooner (2015) rather than later (2016).

Just because they say it's a priority or whatnot doesn't mean that they have to show it nor does it mean that they're going to. What's logical and proper simply doesn't apply to SE all the time because their past actions have indicated otherwise.

 

[theofficefan99]

I don't get these points.

FF15 is arguably the most anticipated game of all time on a global scale. XV would be the juggernaut of games at e3, as it was last year. It really doesn't need to fight for attention because it commands it.

And Squaresoft has been showing FFXV for years now, for no reason at all but to prove it exists, so I find it odd that they would suddenly think it better for business to not show it.

Your many arguments hinge on this idea so much. If there is so many potential factors and so munch information we don't know, how does it not validate your idea equally to dramatis' or Kagari's or mine for that matter? You're using an unknown factor to uplift your argument when there is no sound basis for either side. The idea supports both sides equally or none at all. You're misusing the lack of evidence.



Just because they say it's a priority or whatnot doesn't mean that they have to show it nor does it mean that they're going to. What's logical and proper simply doesn't apply to SE all the time because their past actions have indicated otherwise.

I know. I've come to the realization that there's pretty much no point in arguing because we're all pretty much in the dark and none of us know if it's coming out sooner (2015, meaning an E3 appearance should be expected) rather than later (2016, in which a no-show at E3 is understandable). My point throughout this entire topic, though, has been that there's evidence from SE themselves that it should be coming out sooner rather than later, thus it should make an appearance at E3, and I'd trust SE's word over speculation from some people who have not-100%-reliable connections.

 

[KtSlime]

I know. I've come to the realization that there's pretty much no point in arguing because we're all pretty much in the dark and none of us know if it's coming out sooner (2015, meaning an E3 appearance should be expected) rather than later (2016, in which a no-show at E3 is understandable). My point throughout this entire topic, though, has been that there's evidence from SE themselves that it should be coming out sooner rather than later, thus it should make an appearance at E3, and I'd trust SE's word over speculation from some people who have not-100%-reliable connections.

You should never trust what SE says. Remember FFVersus13 for PS3? Announced 8 years ago? Remember that time they gave us a release date for The Last Remnant?

Know them by their actions, not by their lies.

 

[theofficefan99]

You should never trust what SE says. Remember FFVersus13 for PS3? Announced 8 years ago? Remember that time they gave us a release date for The Last Remnant?

Know them by their actions, not by their lies.

Good point. I guess there's really absolutely no way of knowing until E3 has come and gone. Unless SE reveals it in its line-up (doubtful, even if it shows up I'd expect it to not be in the line-up and be shown as a "secret," for some reason).

 

[Some Nobody]

To be honest with you, unless there's a solid release date attached (like "Summer 2015" for instance), I don't want to see FF XV anymore. How much more information do you need? There's at least eight minutes of footage out there for a game that may not even see a release next year.

 

[theofficefan99]

To be honest with you, unless there's a solid release date attached (like "Summer 2015" for instance), I don't want to see FF XV anymore. How much more information do you need? There's at least eight minutes of footage out there for a game that may not even see a release next year.

I have an insanely strong feeling that it'll be released 2015 though. I mean, pretty much all signs point to a 2015 release. But I guess we'll see. 6 days left now.

 

[Haeralis The BRave]

I just noticed that you can see the font for FFXII and KH2 in that video ...

We know about 2.5 already, but do you think they are planning FFXII HD? There is this...

http://gamingbolt.com/rumor-final-fantasy-xii-hd-may-be-announced-at-e3

 

[Casval]

Well, whatever. I'm excited for E3. Ha.

 

[dramatis]

I don't get these points.

FF15 is arguably the most anticipated game of all time on a global scale. XV would be the juggernaut of games at e3, as it was last year. It really doesn't need to fight for attention because it commands it.

And Squaresoft has been showing FFXV for years now, for no reason at all but to prove it exists, so I find it odd that they would suddenly think it better for business to not show it.

While I think you overestimate the global thirst for FF15 (a game that will easily be outsold globally by your yearly regurgitation of Call of Duty, Battlefield, sports games, Batman, Ubisoft Game, Nintendo franchises, etc.), my wording may have made it a bit unclear.

It's not that FF15 needs to compete for attention with the other big games at the show (but it actually does, because there's only so much time the reporters have to get the rounds on everything), it's that having FF15 present will take attention away from SE's other projects. That's why it would be better for business to not show 15, a game that will probably not release in 2014 anyway. The attention 15 gets won't help the sales of SE's other games any.