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Star Citizen Pre-Alpha: Hangar Module
- Thread starter MrBig
- Start date
Buy a Titan ZWhat? They are moving to double precision calculations?How are we gonna run it in decent framerates?
Buy a Titan Z
Its more about CPU power.
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The graphics in multiplayer match on the stream - o_0
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Dont count on that.
I think the biggest concern is not that the final game will turn out to be a buggy mess, as I'm sure it won't. My biggest concern is that the game will not be delivered on time, and my definition of on time with this game is already somewhere late 2015.
RubberJohnny
Banned
So in a shorter period of time with less money and hype, Eliteangerous has managed to put out several alphas into the hands of backers that are more polished than this and play well.
Also you can just buy the game without spending thousands of dollars on pixel ships and microtransaction currency purchases. I think I'll stick with that.
angerous has managed to put out several alphas into the hands of backers that are more polished than this and play well. Also you can just buy the game without spending thousands of dollars on pixel ships and microtransaction currency purchases. I think I'll stick with that.
So in a shorter period of time with less money and hype, Elite
Also you can just buy the game without spending thousands of dollars on pixel ships and microtransaction currency purchases. I think I'll stick with that.
Less complex game is easier to make, news at eleven.
Second sentence is just stupid and makes no sense, but whatever makes You feel better I guess.
TheVoidDragon
Member
So in a shorter period of time with less money and hype, Elite
Also you can just buy the game without spending thousands of dollars on pixel ships and microtransaction currency purchases. I think I'll stick with that.
Elite: Dangerous is not as ambitious, large-scale or immersive as Star Citizen is. You can just buy this game as well for $40, you don't have to buy additional ships (which are only there to support development).
Personally I think it was a big mistake to show the game live. They should have realized at least a few days ago that the DFM will probably not be ready for an on-stage-live-demo. Just record a few multiplayer matches and show 30 minutes of gameplay. Or if CR really wanted some live gameplay, only show some basic stuff, like he did in the beginning in the single player demo. I reckon we won't get a decently playable version before the end of May.
Also it would have been better if security kicked out those idiots in the crowd constantly yelling at the stage.
Also it would have been better if security kicked out those idiots in the crowd constantly yelling at the stage.
Wow, you seem like a really nice guy. "Those people" are the ones dedicated enough to the game to get a ticket for an event like that.
People keep pointing the scale differences out but at this point they haven't even shown their actively working on the really ambitious stuff ( the mmo) so comparing ED to what we have seen of SC ( hangar and DFM) is not a terrible comparison.
I've a niggling voice in the back of my head that SC being the darling of Crowd funding and the great hope of PC tech heads is stopping any criticism heading their way.
I still am, even if it meant only releasing it as pre alpha buggy solo free flight only first ( ie first part of the event ).So, who was that that was so sad earlier about the DFM not releasing until the end of the month/start of next month?
It's not like it wouldn't still mean the more polished product with all it's content in 2-5 weeks.
I know it won't happen since he seems so focused on the idea on only releasing a polished product even if it mean a 5 month delay to a module, just saying I don't understand it, delay aren't that much more of a good publicity, video of the unpolished/buggy product is now shared anyway meaning those "this is what you do with 40m $" is already there, so why not at the very least please those who actually understand what alpha mean.
It is terrible comparison. ED does not have characters at all, it doesnt have so many simulated systems and parts of the ships, it wont have any ships that will managed by multiple players or player + AI etc. Also DFM is working and being design for backend identical as in persistent universe.
Its completely different scale not in terms of macro, but in terms of micro.
Irobot82
Member
Heh, my definition of on time is 2016.
That's like comparing the building of the foundation of the Burj Khalifa and a 600 ft. skyscraper and concluding the other skyscraper will be taller because they can start adding floors faster.
The game was originally estimated as end of 2014 though.
ActStriker
Member
I left before the multiplayer stuff last night, but I thought the crowd wasn't that bad while I was there. Granted, I was up in the balcony instead of on the dance floor of the place, so I probably couldn't hear some things.
Kinda expected it to be buggy though. Curse of the live demo is real.
Kinda expected it to be buggy though. Curse of the live demo is real.
Which was a stupidly optimistic goal.
Irobot82
Member
It also had an original budget of just a few million, now that's over $40 million.
Allegedly, the plan is to release the first 10 missions of Squadron 42 by this December.
Then, each month thereafter, 10 or so more missions will be released until it's finished in April 2015. The persistent universe beta will come some time after that.
That's the plan, anyway.
Star Citizen beta, not the whole game though, still it wont happen.
I personally dont want full release before end of 2015, because i want DX 12 to be properly implemented into the pipeline.
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@Danthrax
I think February-March 2015 is more realistic for Squadron 42 first 10 missions.
Yeah, but by dynamically setting your expectations, the game will always be 'on time'. I mean, if I expect this before 2019, I normally won't be wrong.
The original planned budget was 22-25 million. Most of it would come from investors though.
Irobot82
Member
Freelancer was supposed to come out at the end of 2000, it eventually came out in march 2003.
I never expected the beta to be out sooner than Q4 2015/Q1 2016 due to the above, if it's delayed any further than that I'll probably get worried.
Oh, probably. I'm just reporting what the head of Squadron 42, Erin Roberts, has said.
Well, those are my realistic expecations also. I just think Chris has to be a bit more generous when setting dates, because delaying will hurt more in the long term than the late delivery in itself.
Buggy Loop
Member
wat
Elite will have a fully scaled milky way galaxy that you can explore in 1:1 scale, with i believe 16 000 star systems that reflect that night's sky from earth's point of view and the rest procedurally generated. All objects will not be static, as in if you warp from a planet's orbit and come back days later, it wont be there. Black holes and supernovas will be there aswell, and massive objects will affect warp travel.
You'll be able (in an expansion) to go from space to the planet's surface without loading screen, and after that they want to implement exploration on foot, aswell as boarding and walking around ships.
Cryengine is already limiting the scope of star citizen. They will have to redo all their work someday when they will decide to go with a procedural method to expand their universe.
I really dont see whats more complex about star citizen but please tell me (as im a backer too), other than their priorities are reversed, Star citizen wants to focus on immersion of walking around and climbing in your ship, before space flight, while Elite focus on space flight before walking. In the end, both will be similar, but one will have a much larger scale with newtonian physics simulation of all objects (not just the ship).
To me this seems like a much more complete dogfight "module".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvl7uaR1sfI
I would beg to differ having read through this page:
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous_FAQ
Yes, just like in all the previous Elite games you will be able to manually dock with space stations seamlessly..Additionally to simply flying into a station's door, in E
EDIT - David Braben detailing all his plans for these features in video form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM0Gcl7iUM8
It is hard for me to levy criticism at the game currently. What I have seen looks very good when you look past the bugs.
Software development is strange. A game will, 'look like shit,' in they eyes of your average consumer for weeks, then everything will fall in place and you will have a polishes build.
I definitely agree.
Large-scale doesn't necessarily mean large in terms of world size, seeing as you can make space as big as you want with procedural generation. Large-scale can mean thightly interwoven, so that if you stretch everything out it would be far bigger than you'd assumed.
Anyway, these comparison with Elite are becoming tiresome. They both will be good games, but each with different focuses, and neither of them better or worse than the other.
Vlodril
Member
that would be a big mistake since it would go against everything roberts stands for and has promised for the game. the transparency and see how a game is build from the grounds up has being a pretty big part of the campaign. People will bitch anyway and if anyone expected a polished alpha of .. well anything more idiot he.
Dictator93
Member
Chris roberts drunken interview lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eWHEmAZ_Xk
I love his enthusiasm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eWHEmAZ_Xk
I love his enthusiasm.
I think most people with a head on their shoulders and half a heart won't really mind it being buggy. The transparency is much more important, and it further pushes the team in what they are doing. Just unfortunate that the ass hats are the loud ones verbally berating the guy making all of this happen right in front of him.
To set this project up correctly they have to invest a lot of time in software planning and engineering. Worst thing to do would be rush a module out only to find it's near impossible to integrate into the larger project. The more work they put into the larger picture now the more smoothly things will be in the long run.
I missed the livestream, hope they'll publish an edited version of the event on SC's website soon. Love the webms! I have no doubts this will look and play amazing the closer we get to the final version(s).
I seriously don't get the comparisons with Elite: D. And it's not the "which one is the more complex space-sim" talk that bothers me. It's people comparing the two games like development started on the same day. How hard is it to understand that Dangerous has been in development for longer than SC? That they already had a studio set up? That SC's scope grew as the cash kept rolling in? They're at very different stages of development. Just accept that and stop trying to diminish one or the other with utterly retarded comments.
I seriously don't get the comparisons with Elite: D. And it's not the "which one is the more complex space-sim" talk that bothers me. It's people comparing the two games like development started on the same day. How hard is it to understand that Dangerous has been in development for longer than SC? That they already had a studio set up? That SC's scope grew as the cash kept rolling in? They're at very different stages of development. Just accept that and stop trying to diminish one or the other with utterly retarded comments.
As i said, the focus for Star Citizen is to simulate everything. Its not all about graphical fidelity, but how that details affect gameplay too. You wont have something like boarding ships or managing ships by multiple crews in Elite, their engine and all systems wont do that without serious reworkings.
Ship wont be made by modules that can be disabled or damaged like in SC, so for example if You board ship in SC and You gun down a module that is responsible for life support You can suffocate rest of the crew, You can also damage this module in combat and in every ship that module will be in different place, because location of such a module has to make sense.
Of course everything on the ship and in the ship changes its weight and its distribution so its affecting flight model.
And this goes for everything, from weapon movement, to engines movements, to flight control systems, landing gear to systems managing stealth systems or shields.
And this kind of details will be used in all interactive object in the environment too.
And everything will be tracked and manage in persistent universe, so in combat You have tons of physics and interaction You will never know about that You have to sync with clients and this why DFM network backend is so complicated.
In Elite You will have just few blocks with preset characteristics as a ships.
Scale is different, but as i said its not about macro, but its about micro.
And i can assure You that expanding from Elite to SC will much harder than from SC to Elite, because Elite will have to change everything to get it working, from all assets to all physics, where in SC it will be mostly how details and control over assets will they sacrifice to use procedural generation.
So, Elite is easier to game to make, but harder to expand. SC is harder game to make, but easier to expand, because it will have all the most important and the hardest systems already in place.
Of course nothing wrong with Elite's way of doing things, i'm also excited about that game, but SC will be the one that will have better longevity, because its designed that way.
I doubt that this game will be final before 2016.
Here's a clip of the dogfighting (with sounds)
http://a.pomf.se/moplbp.webm
And the g-force blackout effect
http://a.pomf.se/auxszn.webm
CR is also on a PAX panel about "the future of PC gaming," starting in a few minutes http://www.twitch.tv/pax2
http://a.pomf.se/moplbp.webm
And the g-force blackout effect
http://a.pomf.se/auxszn.webm
CR is also on a PAX panel about "the future of PC gaming," starting in a few minutes http://www.twitch.tv/pax2
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
What? They are moving to double precision calculations?
So... 64 bit only?
SC is already using only a 64bit exe for memory address space, that's not a new stipulation.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Then what are we talking about with Double precision calcs?
Hopefully!
It will practically just mean that you will be able to see things farther in the distance, and they will have the potential to look much better.
I don't get how more precise floats lets you do that.
They won't be able to run on 32-bit systems since I have 8GB RAM already and my pc complains it runs out of memory when running the hangar. How you would even run SC with 3,5GB of RAM is beyond my imagination.
I'm not an engineer, so I can't give a very accurate explanation of this, but I can give my interpretation of how this was explained to me.
Typically, large scale games use chunks to display their space, eg 4x4x4km volumes. Each chunk is static and as you move through space you move between chunks. The issue with single point precision is that chunks outside the one you're currently in can contain rendering errors, and are relatively limited in size. Implementing double precision will eliminate any potential rendering errors in the distance, and will enable bigger chunks.
I was looking it up the other day and found some talk about people wanting half precision. Certainly seems like they are trying to take some ambitious steps with SC.
Dictator93
Member
DPC is something game devs making these scale games always WANT to do, but cannot do to min spec concerns. Look at Infinity game engine for example and his blog post on it.