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[Zippedpinhead]

Terrible plan... Why not AB today, Matt attack tomorrow and then we win? Why sacrifice two people that we know aren't hutt?

This is supposed to be kind of "tongue-in-cheek" but I do mean part of it. Neither of us want to die, we need to try and develop theories on hutts, imperial agents, and if there are any other neutral characters.

Believe me, I would rather you not detain me, and instead got out someone else.

As for you being the thief, you are right you could be, except you posted this, which would make you appear more town, except it could be a hutt gambit to appear more town, which we think of so why would a hutt publicly theorize this.

No it is or no it isn't?

 

[CzarTim]

Tasty tasty wine in front of me

 

[CzarTim]

If I felt town learned more from my flip, I'd volunteer to go first. You going first gives more weight to your theories if your telling the truth. Matt and I also look like fools

I hope you are telling the truth because I'll be very cross that you made me spend so much time rereading if your not lol

 

[Palmer_v1]

Theres still a shield (or gun) somewhere as well. If its just a thief left, they may have a problem. Not sure they can give a steal and kill command in same night.

 

[AbsolutBro]

This is correct, armourer's abilities take priority over kill actions.

There are most definitely two items floating around out there.

Quantum shielded himself night 1, then gave out (presumably) shields on nights 2 and 3 (the night he died). Matty's post makes it clear the shield would have gone out before he died. Now, it's of course possible one or both went to a hutt, but there are definitely two items.

I do have a thief theory, but need to piece the posts together. I realize it will look like I'm deflecting, but I'd rather get my idea out and look like I'm deflecting than keep quiet find out I was right.

 

[CzarTim]

Night 3 i think qb shielded johnny and it went to OA. Shielded person would have come forward on day 4 to confirm mak was lying if they were rebel. Unless they just assumed mak would get detained I guess.

 

[CzarTim]

or mak really had a gun lol

 

[Zippedpinhead]

or mak really had a gun lol

The shield going to OA when QB planned on shielding Johnny makes sense. I'm pretty sure if a hutt had s gun they would have used it.

I really am telling the truth on being a rebel, what will this conversation look like tomorrow with me detained? I hope not *crickets*

 

[CzarTim]

Mak wouldn't have had a chance to use it.

 

[Palmer_v1]

I didn't mean to pry into who may or may not have it. It's only in the Hutts interest to find that out. I was just thinking that we probably have more time than we think thanks to that.

Traube also potentially lengthens the game by at least 1 day, assuming he can reuse his role. Normally mafia wins when we can no longer outvote them during the day. With Traube, that's not exactly true any more.

 

[CzarTim]

imo the thief is either zipp, raindoc, ab, or matt. redhood and yesno are dark horses to me. I should be on your lists as well.

If I could have final say in the votes I'd go zipp > raindoc and then we would discuss matt vs ab for day eight (if the game doesn't end.) This is because of course I know it's not me. From towns perspective I need to be considered though.

If zipp flips town tomorrow then I feel like someone, possibly the real thief, could make a strong case on me being the thief. I only noticed it when rereading AB, but it's there. tbh I don't think you'll be able to determine the thief based on posts related to qb / items in this thread. Really sloppy of the thief if they left a trail. I do think you can figure out who was working with oa and mak though.

So I go tomorrow. If the game doesn't end then you guys discuss the remaining options. imo it's raindoc or ab. I havent reread matt yet and no one has cased him yet so maybe. But I think that's town's best play.

 

[eJawa]

Today my vote will be on eJawa.


REASON 1 - Barely contributes, staying under the radar

On Day 3, he's claiming he has a power role to save himself from being lynched. But now he claims he's just an Ordinary Town. I understand if he desires to stay in the game longer, however I don't think his staying around has been beneficial to the town so far since he barely participates and does not offer any theory or discussion. Feel free to reread his posts so far and verify this yourself!

I think you need to re-read my posts. I never claimed to have a power role. I never claimed either way. I've almost always stated my reasons to vote, but maybe not as well at the beginning. The first 3 days did not have much information to go on, so it was kind of a crap shoot. I vocally argued for voting for Makai and Oceanic that last 2 days, who were clear suspects, but some players were thinking of letting go. Again, that would make me a terrible IA. If other players feel it would be more useful if I reveal my role, whether it be power or ordinary, I will. I still think we shouldn't give the hutts any more info then we need.

REASON 2 - Day 3 lynching behaviour

There is something peculiar I noticed on Day 3. At first, he voted to get QuantumBro to be lynched. But when people started to vote for Makai, he also bandwagoned his vote to him. However he did it by claiming that Makai is probably a Rebel. I added bold for emphasis.


And he was leading people to abort voting for Makai, after Makai claimed that he was Ordinary Hutt.



Then he moved on to vote for OceanicAir.



Note that he said this vote is final... though was it? Since actually he changed his mind yet again and voted to lynch Barrylocke.

Really? I was being sarcastic, when saying he was a rebel, since the last 2 people I voted for were rebels. The first few days, I felt more comfortable with the group and was posting more like myself, who happens to be sarcastic and self deprecating. When everyone else was taking the game more seriously, I stopped. I was suspicious of all 3 of the people I voted for on day 3, but not really sure on any of them. Makai was my first choice, but I didn't feel strongly enough to risk a repeat of the first 3 days. Yeah, it was dumb to say Oceanic's vote was my final, but his role claim sounded real at the time, so I felt I needed to change my vote again.

REASON 3 - Suspiciously alive

Somehow despite claiming he has yet to role claim, the Hutts does not target him so far. Also if his intention is to actually prevent power roles from being killed, he has done pretty poor job so far. Other than Night 2 (and this is thanks to johnny) the Hutts have been killing all the power roles every night.

Why would they target me, when they had other people to target, who they knew had power roles? How would me coming out as either a power role or ordinary rebel prevented that, other than coming out as or lying about being a more valuable role? Are you saying I should have done that?

REASON 4 - The Hutts don't want to lynch him

Now this is the main reason why I'm voting for him. On Day 4, there were 3 choices for lynching: Makai, OceanicAir, and eJawa.

There was no other candidate being offered. This discussion between AbsolutBro and Palmer_v1 caught my eyes. In summary:

Personally I have been waiting for today, now that we know both Makai and OceanicAir are Hutts. On Day 4 where both of the Hutts were in danger of being lynched, why won't they vote for eJawa? They don't kill him at night for claiming to have "power" and they don't want to lynch him either, they rather get lynched than ever voted against him.

To me, the only reason why this behaviour made sense is because he's one of them, and since their covers are blown, they rather sacrifice themselves than detain him.

Well you want to lynch me, so...

As other have stated over and over, if I were to be a hutt, I couldn't be a main hutt, unless I there are 6 and I was inactive. That would mean I would have to be IA. The hutts don't know who the IA is, though they may suspect. I also doubt that they would intentionally sacrifice 2 main hutts for a possible IA. They probably didn't vote for me, because they saw there wasn't much traction in it.

The previous day and today, I have been paying attention to people trying to sway vote away from the current discussion. That's why I am leaning towards Zipped, which I posted earlier. That's why I will need to keep a closer eye on you. Why do you think it's more important to go after the IA, then thief?

 

[Zippedpinhead]

imo the thief is either zipp, raindoc, ab, or matt. redhood and yesno are dark horses to me. I should be on your lists as well.

If I could have final say in the votes I'd go zipp > raindoc and then we would discuss matt vs ab for day eight (if the game doesn't end.) This is because of course I know it's not me. From towns perspective I need to be considered though.

If zipp flips town tomorrow then I feel like someone, possibly the real thief, could make a strong case on me being the thief. I only noticed it when rereading AB, but it's there. tbh I don't think you'll be able to determine the thief based on posts related to qb / items in this thread. Really sloppy of the thief if they left a trail. I do think you can figure out who was working with oa and mak though.

So I go tomorrow. If the game doesn't end then you guys discuss the remaining options. imo it's raindoc or ab. I havent reread matt yet and no one has cased him yet so maybe. But I think that's town's best play.

I'm flipping town tomorrow, so you need to already be thinking about this. Make cases for another person to be a thief. Look for the IA,

Why so defeatist? If you say " vote for me I'm town, but someone might say I'm mafia, so eliminate me and then go after that person", it is like you are giving up. Make your arguments better than the hutt thief (assuming you aren't hutt).

if you are hutt, my post comparing myself being as much of a hutt and you and makai would be crazy... Especially since I am town.

Sometimes I feel like the only person who doesn't want to die,

 

[AbsolutBro]

Preface: this is an idea backed mostly by speculation. I realize with previous discussion about my being the thief that it looks like I'm deflecting. I don't care. Better to get this out and be proven wrong than sit on it and find out I was right. Onwards!


The thief. We've been assuming that the thief is part of the hutts, but what if they're not. We've all somewhat agreed that the thief is a pretty weak role for a hutt; once we know someone is stealing things, the armorers just never give out guns and the power of the thief is pretty much neutered. There is another possibility.

We know Palmer can't be a main hutt; they tried to kill him night 2 and JQK (inadvertently) saved him:

Palmer (can’t be main hutt, cleared by setre and johnny)

We also know that, by his own admission, Palmer is a third party Bothan Spy:

For simplicities sake, and since I don't think it matters much anymore, my role name is Bothan Spy. Yes, I realize that my role is literally BS. Deal with it.

Deeply paraphrased fluff is that I've been sent in to protect and extract someone with valuable information for the Bothan Spynet. I'm still withhlding name and and role until I feel like I need to protect them.

Protect them. He claims to be an unlyncher, but unlynchers usually have no night powers as far as I know. (I'm going off the wiki article Palmer linked earlier) But by his own admission, Palmer HAS been taking night actions since night 2. Night 2 being the first time a shield was stolen:

I meant I was defending myself via Night 1 information. I.e. how could I be a Serial Killer when the ONLY night we've had two deaths, I showed no activity via Setre. I did not mean I took a defense action.

FWIW, I've taken actions every other night since. I just knew I was a likely target for investigative roles, and I felt my target and I were safe from random death.

He's supposed to be looking after someone, a target that has some sort of data he wants (plans to the death star II? "many bothans died" and all that ).

He also claims that if his target is eliminated, that Palmer also loses the game:

MOSTLY coincides. I cannot win if town does not win. The reverse is not true.

Now earlier, he said:

So, to add to the insanity, my client is actually 1 of the 4 people voting for me right now!

and at that time, those 4 people were:

TheWorthyEdge
Raindoc
Makai
traube

TWE is dead (RIP) and Makai was hutt (and is also dead). That leaves Raindoc and Traube, except Palmer clearly doesn't trust traube:

I fully expect Traube to drop the hammer again. If he's wrong twice, I'm voting to detain him.

Czar and Traube are the dark horses I'm most worried about. Either one of them could be Hutts playing well, and it would probably mean our doom. I just can't be certain about anything but my targets.

Wait... "targets"?


...

I'm going to be honest here. I took so long hunting down posts and dealing with work stuff that I sort of forgot where I was going with this other than: what if the thief is not a hutt but a third party: specifically Palmer trying to steal whatever information it is he's talking about.

I want to be clear: I agree that Palmer is not a main hutt. But if he IS the thief, I think we as town need to know so that we can stop spinning in circles looking for one. If he is the thief, the Hutts already know; not telling us only hurts the Town.

And with that, I conclude my seriously suspicious and ridiculous post.

 

[CzarTim]

I'm flipping town tomorrow, so you need to already be thinking about this. Make cases for another person to be a thief. Look for the IA,

Why so defeatist? If you say " vote for me I'm town, but someone might say I'm mafia, so eliminate me and then go after that person", it is like you are giving up. Make your arguments better than the hutt thief (assuming you aren't hutt).

if you are hutt, my post comparing myself being as much of a hutt and you and makai would be crazy... Especially since I am town.

Sometimes I feel like the only person who doesn't want to die,

Because we have 7 possibilities, 0 leads, and 2 or 3 chances to be wrong without a clear conciseness and on top of that most people in this game are barely contributing anything at all.

The only person I feel comfortable saying could be a hutt is you. If we are speculating that you are town then everyone else is imo is a crap shoot to varying degrees of suspicion. I'm ok with dying if it's in the best interest of the town.

preview edit: and now ab adds suspect 8

 

[AbsolutBro]

Some thoughts on my AB reread. Sorry no post links, I reread on mobile:

- Day one seemed to go back and forth on the idea of detaining or not. Several others did as well though.

- Day one also defended swamped by questioning LoC's vote on her. I think he was doing the same thing I was doing though: calling LoC out for lying. I was just dumb about it.

- Day two was suspicious of worthy and zubz, but this was after mak had dropped his suspicion and after the blarg duel.

- Day two thought blarg was lying but thought he was 3p (I did too ) Did not think blarg was a rebel.

- Day two doubted there were really 2 armorers, 2 sets of masons / lovers and we found them all day two.

- Day three accepted palmer's role while mak and OA threw shade. Defended Palmer a bunch.

- Day three believed setre's claim while Mak and OA threw shade.

- Day three at some point said mak isn't making sense trying to push Palmer. (OA did too shortly after.)

- Day three votes Mak right after Mak claimed hutt (looks like he was typing his post as Mak posted.) AB jokingly said were going to vote out a rebel, but kept his vote on Mak for the rest of the day. Appears to have been phone posting so not super active at the end.

- Day four John Madden notes but not a lot of comment on them. Guess it could have been "look how townie I am," but seems genuine.

- Day four was suspicious of Mak but was also putting forward kind of weak counters to my theory on Mak. Could be him trying to look at every possible angle, or him trying to put doubt on it. Kind of read it as the former.

- Day four he did come around to the idea of Mak, posted 2 long posts on him and OA. Voted Mak and kept it there.

- Day five voted OA with a long post.

-------------------------

My thought on AB is very unlikely a hutt. I feel like he's been playing pretty similarly to me this game, just not posting as much (but who has.) If he's a hutt he has played very well.

I guess I should also respond to this:

Day 1: I was set on detaining, I even said as much to LoC. The question was whether we went after inactive posters or found a more suspicious target. I eventually went with TWE, which was before the BB claim came out.

Re: defending swamped - It wasn't so much defending swamped as questioning the dogpile so early. It wouldn't have mattered if it was swamped or anyone else. I feel like there are two main ways for hutts to play: slow and quiet, or pied-piper style. Early aggression by rebel players felt like pied-piper style to me.

Re: TWE/Zubz - you'll see I stayed suspicious of them pretty much through day 3. Not that that helps my case, but it's worth pointing out.

Day 2: You can't tell me finding 3 "pairs" of players all by day 2 isn't wild! I still find it amazing. Contrast it with the first game I played where it took multiple days for a single role to come out.

Re: Blarg - I have to question anyone who straight up believed Blarg was a UI. I do. There was no reason for him play the way he did if was the UI. He was even contacted the previous night by the hutts (via Makai); if he WAS the UI, he would have just kept his mouth shut so they knew who he was and the rebels would have no idea Makai had a power. The Hutts would have a solid idea that Blarg would have been the UI by not saying anything. To say nothing of just lying about his role when Makai beat him. The whole thing stunk.

Re: defending Palmer - I did and do still believe he was telling the truth about being 3rd party. I understood/understand why he would keep the specifics secret and like I said, we used Kark pretty well last game, and Palmer seemed/seems to be rebel aligned. As for Makai's pushing Palmer and my defending him, Makai's arguments made no sense. The more Makai posted the more it felt like he was scrambling.

Re: setre - As it's my second game, I was sort of sympathetic to someone who was in their first game. I didn't realize I was so constantly at odds with Mak and OA though.

Re: posting my notes. It was mostly done to illustrate the madcap nature of the game. Frankly, I'd hope most players are at least half keeping track of how people are voting. I also genuinely hoped someone could find something in the patterns that I couldn't. But Palmer was right, needed more John Fucking Madden!

As for my votes for Makai and OA, I think the posts speak for themselves well enough:

Makai was suspicious when I voted for him the first time. His claim to have a gun was probably the second biggest mistake of the game. It basically removed all chance he had of survival, even if he HADN'T been nearly detained the day before. He could have claimed he got a shield, he could have claimed someone tried to steal from him, he could have claimed to receive a message. Either he acted without talking to the hutts, or they really slipped up there.

OA "having his shield stolen" inadvertently via a JQK swap stretched the bounds of credulity. JQK flying off into the sunsets basically made the OA vote all but definite for me.

So, yeah. Overall I've done the best I can to keep things clear and transparent. I post theories when I have them, even if/when they turn out wrong. (which other than Makai/OA they mostly have XD ). If I'm a main hutt, I'm pretty bad at it. I could be the UI, but if I am, I'm doing a really crappy job of throwing rebels in the way of hutt speculation.

 

[raindoc]

Hi guys,
Sorry for being absent, RL hasn't been too kind lately and I wasn't in a good mood/didn't want to post. simple as that.

going through the last couple of pages now, will post later today.

 

[CzarTim]

Thanks for the post AB. Will post more about Palmer later. How do you feel about a zipp vote today?

 

[CzarTim]

Hi guys,
Sorry for being absent, RL hasn't been too kind lately and I wasn't in a good mood/didn't want to post. simple as that.

going through the last couple of pages now, will post later today.

Sorry to hear that. Hope everything is okay, and welcome back!

 

[AbsolutBro]

Hi guys,
Sorry for being absent, RL hasn't been too kind lately and I wasn't in a good mood/didn't want to post. simple as that.

going through the last couple of pages now, will post later today.

It's all good man. Hope things pick up.

Thanks for the post AB. Will post more about Palmer later. How do you feel about a zipp vote today?

I've had my suspicions.

But since I'm in a "screw I don't care if it looks suspicious, I'll post up my reasoning. Probably overlap/echo a few other poster's suspicions/posts, but meh.

 

[Palmer_v1]

Been thinking about my role and whether or not I should announce my person.

Assuming you guys trust me, it can give us 1 less person to argue about, and we're at a point in the game where that could make a huge difference. It would also let me reengage overall. I haven't been participating as much because I felt like I needed to keep the pool as wide as possible. I can't protect myself AND my target on the same night. Until now, there's always been a more logical target for the Hutts, so I haven't stressed about it. Now my person is about as good as any of the rest of you.

The downside is this puts them at more risk, probably. It would increase the chance of town winning, but decrease my personal odds.

 

[Zatoth]

Where is traube to defend against all this?

Not much to say.

Anyone who gets my message and dies on same day can send ME message next day // BLARG: Palmer is neutral

I thought the first part, had something to do with the power and was not part of the message. After I realised my mistake I posted the whole thing.

 

[CzarTim]

Palmer did you get the role name and info or just name?

Also just fyi from town's perspective losing 2 at night won't change our # of mislynches regardless if there are 2 or 3 hutts left.

 

[Palmer_v1]

So a bunch of stuff got posted while I was slowly typing out my last post(and getting actual work done). Should have refreshed. Give me a bit and I'll reply more directly to the new stuff.

 

[Palmer_v1]

Palmer did you get the role name and info or just name?

Also just fyi from town's perspective losing 2 at night won't change our # of mislynches regardless if there are 2 or 3 hutts left.

I have Role Name and player name. Still responding to Absolut's post. Quick version is no, I'm not Thief.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Well you want to lynch me, so...

Yes I do!
Since I joined, we've had 2 out of 2 successes of detaining Hutts! I'm the lucky charm~ fufufu. My choices has 100% success rate, I believe you will make a nice addition to my collection >

I choose to vote for you since I believe there are at least 4 Main Hutts in the game. There are so many power roles, I doubt we only have to deal with 3 Main Hutts and 2 Undercover. We don't even have a Serial Killer in this game.

I don't think you are an Undercover, I believe you are a Hutt with no ability at night (like traube last game).
I vote for you before the thief since I want to know why the Hutts like you so much and never vote for you. At least this is an observable evidence, not merely based on hunch or suspicion.

They probably didn't vote for me, because they saw there wasn't much traction in it.

Are you saying the Hutt felt utterly defeated about their chance, they don't even bother to save themselves at all?

This seems to contradict Day 3 where they were posting in frenzy to save themselves and each other, and Day 5 where OceanicAir voted for zippedpinhead. Anyone but you eh?

Even on that fateful Day 4, where you claimed the Hutts already gave up, Makai was trying very hard to stay in the game. He pretended he's still a good guy and claimed he got a gun from QuantumBro. Just giving up does not seem to be his style at all, he doesn't have any qualm cheating the game with Blargonaut, nor did he mind lying about the gun. I believe he was still playing to the best of his ability, yet inexplicably, he decided that you were not worth lynching?

May I ask everyone here what would be the reasonable reasons for the Hutts not to lynch eJawa if he's not one of them? Why would they be willing to die at Day 4 instead of voting for him?
This also happened on Day 5 by the way. eJawa was voted by traube but OceanicAir never voted for him.

If anyone can offer a logical answer to this question, I am all ears. Please let me know what you guys think, I really believe detaining eJawa is the optimal choice today.


Palmer, I think I know who your client is. To everyone else, it's not me!!! He voted Rymuth multiple times.

I don't think you should reveal the name except if they are in danger. Tomorrow is probably better, depending whether we get a Hutt today or not.


raindoc, Welcome back! I hope life is not too stressful. The town really needs your input. Since I joined mid-season, your posts actually help me find my bearing in this game.


We have only 1 Day 11 Hour left. Everyone! Please vote early to avoid last minute scrambling.

 

[CzarTim]

AB, what are your feelings on redhood? Specifically wrt to day 3 craziness? Do you think hutts would have let one of their own get voted out with OA and redhood not voting? Or do you think they got sideswiped?

 

[Palmer_v1]

Preface: this is an idea backed mostly by speculation. I realize with previous discussion about my being the thief that it looks like I'm deflecting. I don't care. Better to get this out and be proven wrong than sit on it and find out I was right. Onwards!


The thief. We've been assuming that the thief is part of the hutts, but what if they're not. We've all somewhat agreed that the thief is a pretty weak role for a hutt; once we know someone is stealing things, the armorers just never give out guns and the power of the thief is pretty much neutered. There is another possibility.

We know Palmer can't be a main hutt; they tried to kill him night 2 and JQK (inadvertently) saved him:



We also know that, by his own admission, Palmer is a third party Bothan Spy:



Protect them. He claims to be an unlyncher, but unlynchers usually have no night powers as far as I know. (I'm going off the wiki article Palmer linked earlier) But by his own admission, Palmer HAS been taking night actions since night 2. Night 2 being the first time a shield was stolen:




He's supposed to be looking after someone, a target that has some sort of data he wants (plans to the death star II? "many bothans died" and all that ).

He also claims that if his target is eliminated, that Palmer also loses the game:




Now earlier, he said:




and at that time, those 4 people were:

TheWorthyEdge
Raindoc
Makai
traube

TWE is dead (RIP) and Makai was hutt (and is also dead). That leaves Raindoc and Traube, except Palmer clearly doesn't trust traube:




Wait... "targets"?


...

I'm going to be honest here. I took so long hunting down posts and dealing with work stuff that I sort of forgot where I was going with this other than: what if the thief is not a hutt but a third party: specifically Palmer trying to steal whatever information it is he's talking about.

I want to be clear: I agree that Palmer is not a main hutt. But if he IS the thief, I think we as town need to know so that we can stop spinning in circles looking for one. If he is the thief, the Hutts already know; not telling us only hurts the Town.

And with that, I conclude my seriously suspicious and ridiculous post.

The plural targets was something I was adding in case I felt I needed to try and protect someone OTHER than my actual target. i.e. if I had a gut feeling that we were going after a rebel, I could claim they were my target. I would even give the actual role name and see how they responded to me giving incorrect info. If they came back to say, "hey, I'm not an X, we should lynch Palmer", than I probably saved a rebel, without adding any risk to my actual target. On the other hand, if the person didn't say anything about me claiming they're the wrong role, it probably meant I was wrong, and they really are a Hutt. I expose them, etc, and can continue to cover my target as before.

As for that list of 4 players, you actually reminded me of something. Makai started D4 with that line of thought as well, and I explained then that I was just desperately trying not to get lynched(truth). I was actually considering naming Traube specifically to get him off my ass. Makai focused on Raindoc though, and did everything he could to tie us together, before going on to try and get my detained. At the time, I assumed he was a rebel just trying to connect dots, but now that we know he's a Hutt, it makes me less worried about Raindoc, as he'd have no reason to try and out a fellow Hutt.

 

[AbsolutBro]

I have Role Name and player name. Still responding to Absolut's post. Quick version is no, I'm not Thief.

Please don't feel the need to go too in depth if it risks your target. Like I said in the post itself, it's mostly based on speculation.

AB, what are your feelings on redhood? Specifically wrt to day 3 craziness? Do you think hutts would have let one of their own get voted out with OA and redhood not voting? Or do you think they got sideswiped?

Redhood is probably #2 on my list. Maybe #1, he and Zipped kind of flip back and forth. I'm rereading the whole thread and checking their posts. I don't want to do it through the search function only because I feel like you lost context of the surrounding posts.

Re: Mak/OA and hutt-bussing: I don't think the hutts had any real chance of saving Makai or OA once the voting started. Not without risking all of their identities. Even with Makai surviving the first time his head was on the block, once he claimed gun he didn't have a prayer. I threw out my "let's try to use the gun like we used Karkador" post hoping some hutts would latch on, but (without rechecking yet) I don't think anyone took the bait.

OA was pretty much in the same boat. Anyone trying to defend OA (and there were a few half-hearted attempts to deflect) would be fighting an extremely uphill battle after JQK basically outed him.

Once they were both outed, the Hutts had to know that we would take a look at who tried to save them. I want to say "we should check who didn't comment at all!" but absence of evidence is not evidence and all that. Will update when I've finished going through the thread for the umpteenth time.

 

[CzarTim]

As for that list of 4 players, you actually reminded me of something. Makai started D4 with that line of thought as well, and I explained then that I was just desperately trying not to get lynched(truth). I was actually considering naming Traube specifically to get him off my ass. Makai focused on Raindoc though, and did everything he could to tie us together, before going on to try and get my detained. At the time, I assumed he was a rebel just trying to connect dots, but now that we know he's a Hutt, it makes me less worried about Raindoc, as he'd have no reason to try and out a fellow Hutt.

Very good point actually.

Okay how does a zipp vote today > redhood tomorrow sound to everyone?

 

[Palmer_v1]

Very good point actually.

Okay how does a zipp vote today > redhood tomorrow sound to everyone?

I'd feel better in the reverse.

 

[Zatoth]

traube are you in the 5 or 6 hutt camp?

My guess is 4 Hutts and 2 Agents.

Oh and I think Makai's power could have been extremely powerful. But we were lucky that one of the Agents was found during night 1.

Makai could have sent messages telling the potential Agents to both post some kind of message after the night. Every night he could have sent a different message for them to repeat. Only player with a message board could both repeat this message.

I think that was also the reason why we had the combat buddies. They would have been able to screw with the Hutts.

But with only one Agents left after night 1 and the combat buddies in the open Makai's power become quite useless.

 

[CzarTim]

I'd feel better in the reverse.

traube, your thoughts? You have the power to undo all our hard work

 

[Palmer_v1]

I long ago lost track of votes, but I'll put my money where my mouth is, in case shit gets crazy later for me.

Vote: Redhood56

 

[Zatoth]

traube, your thoughts? You have the power to undo all our hard work

At the moment I am fine with everybody besides palmer, eJawa and myself. Because we three are the only ones who can't be the thief and therefore the possible last Hutt in this game.

I still have some trust towards redhood because of his Ordinary Rebel claim.

I'd also be okay with raindoc, depending on what he may have to add to the discussion.

 

[CzarTim]

I still have some trust towards redhood because of his Ordinary Rebel claim.

I'm the same way with him tbh but I recognize I could have a blind-spot because of it. I'd like to point out that you were pretty suspicious of me yesterday when I was the one who made a comment on his post first. So either I'm a rebel too or he could have gotten the info like you did.

 

[CzarTim]

I'm the same way with him tbh but I recognize I could have a blind-spot because of it. I'd like to point out that you were pretty suspicious of me yesterday when I was the one who made a comment on his post first. So either I'm a rebel too or he could have gotten the info like you did.

not saying this to clear myself but to point out the flaw in clearing redhood because of it.

 

[Palmer_v1]

I'm the same way with him tbh but I recognize I could have a blind-spot because of it. I'd like to point out that you were pretty suspicious of me yesterday when I was the one who made a comment on his post first. So either I'm a rebel too or he could have gotten the info like you did.

For the record, Johnny figured out the Ordinary Rebel thing before anyone ever posted it, and it didn't take me long either. It's the standard nomenclature.

Using that as your ONLY proof of innocence is dangerous.

 

[CzarTim]

For the record, Johnny figured out the Ordinary Rebel thing before anyone ever posted it, and it didn't take me long either. It's the standard nomenclature.

Using that as your ONLY proof of innocence is dangerous.

I mean it's that, but it's also day 3. I don't know why the hutts would have let it get that close if 2 hutts who were around had not voted (potentially 3). Plus when we thought time had run out he still maintained he was an OR.

I agree if I was basing it on everything else I'd be pushing for him, I just can't shake the feeling that he's telling the truth. I get it though.

 

[Palmer_v1]

I mean it's that, but it's also day 3. I don't know why the hutts would have let it get that close if 2 hutts who were around had not voted (potentially 3). Plus when we thought time had run out he still maintained he was an OR.

I agree if I was basing it on everything else I'd be pushing for him, I just can't shake the feeling that he's telling the truth. I get it though.

That's fine if you have other reasons to think he might be okay. I just don't want an early , possibly fake, role claim to be the ONLY reason.

 

[redhood56]

Me not voting day 3 was really dumb of me. I unvoted Barry but due to the craziness I was defending myself. If I die the streak ends. I am an ordinary rebel, but have no proof besides my initial claim. Is this the day I finally get detained?!? Tune in to find out!

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

AbsolutBro, thanks for considering my theory. I would like to emphasis that the Hutts never voted for eJawa.

Oceanic Air
day1: not voting
day2: Setre
day3: Setre, No detain
day4: Makai
day5: zippedpinhead

Makai
day1: No detain
day2: Blargonaut
day3: Setre, Palmer
day4: not voting

Here's everyone who have voted for eJawa in the game: Barrylocke, Redhood56, Palmer, traube, me

Also in this game, it's very easy to be suspicious of other people. Though it's not wise for the Hutts to put all their votes to eJawa to save Makai, they could try to paint him under suspicion like what they're doing now to save themselves.

I'm willing to vote for these people: eJawa (obviously), CzarTim (I think you're our thief - too lazy to explain why today, if I'm still alive tomorrow I'll write my essay), zippedpinhead, Matt Attack

 

[CzarTim]

Yesno, ejawa is a bad town vote today. I don't know what else we need to say to convince you of this. We need to kill the thief. If you think it's me, vote me.

 

[eJawa]

Are you saying the Hutt felt utterly defeated about their chance, they don't even bother to save themselves at all?

This seems to contradict Day 3 where they were posting in frenzy to save themselves and each other, and Day 5 where OceanicAir voted for zippedpinhead. Anyone but you eh?

Even on that fateful Day 4, where you claimed the Hutts already gave up, Makai was trying very hard to stay in the game. He pretended he's still a good guy and claimed he got a gun from QuantumBro. Just giving up does not seem to be his style at all, he doesn't have any qualm cheating the game with Blargonaut, nor did he mind lying about the gun. I believe he was still playing to the best of his ability, yet inexplicably, he decided that you were not worth lynching?

You really like twisting my words around. I never said the hutts gave up. Well, Oceanic seemed to, since it barely offered up a defense. I honestly don't know why they didn't vote for me, besides them maybe thinking I'm the IA. Enough people were/are thinking it, so it makes sense.

I think there is a possibility that you are the IA. Yes, you voted for the last 2, but you could have been hoping they were actually rebels. Same can be said against me too. You came into this game knowing there was going to be suspicions on you, because of Rymuth's inactivity. it had been theorized that he quit posting, because his partner died. You could be scrambling to to make up for it, rather than playing it safe. Either way, we should be focusing on the thief, unless we get a really good lead on the IA. At least with Zipp there is a chance he is main hutt or IA. With me, you are counting on there being another main hutt, which is possible, but a stretch. This is all just theorizing and you are definitely not my main target at the moment.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Yesno, ejawa is a bad town vote today. I don't know what else we need to say to convince you of this. We need to kill the thief. If you think it's me, vote me.

I just like to do things based on circumstantial evidence. Plus I don't think there are any thing left the thief can steal. I will vote for you if the Town decides that you should go. For now, I'm more suspicious of eJawa, so my vote will stay on him.

eJawa, you haven't voted so far. I'm waiting to read your thoughts .

 

[Zatoth]

Just some (probably crazy) thought. But couldn't Palmer be the thief?

 

[CzarTim]

I just like to do things based on circumstantial evidence. Plus I don't think there are any thing left the thief can steal. I will vote for you if the Town decides that you should go. For now, I'm more suspicious of eJawa, so my vote will stay on him.

eJawa, you haven't voted so far. I'm waiting to read your thoughts .

Circumstantial evidence is fine but you are ignoring basic logic about our current game state. You are basing your entire theory on an idea we can't prove right now (six hutts) and your case is quite frankly weak outside of ejawa's habit of posting "I'm voting for you so you must be a rebel lol."

Why didn't the hutts kill ejawa? there were better targets each night. I don't know how you thought he had an important role, but I never thought that. Not to mention people have been suspicious of ejawa from fairly early on so why would the hutts remove cannon fodder over important roles?

Why didn't they latch on to vote day 4? Maybe because Palmer voted him with no case like he's done multiple times to multiple people everyday this game. Why would the hutts follow that?

Earlier today you said you'd put town first and here you are pushing a bad vote for town, and when multiple people explain why it's a bad vote you completely ignore their reasoning and distract from the actual issue at hand: who's the thief?

 

[Palmer_v1]

Really, we have at least 2 things to figure out in order to win.

1. Who is the thief? We know one exists. There's an outside chance it's a Neutral role, but if so, I have no idea what it's win condition might be. It's more likely a Hutt. eJawa was cleared of this by Setre by being inactive on a Night something was stolen. Traube was cleared by having another role. I'm cleared if you believe my BS role claim(seriously MattyG, fuck you for this being my acronym), as well as Setre clearing me N1. I listed us in order of certainty based on evidence from proven sources.

This is more important to find out first, because the remaining Hutts MIGHT kill the UI for us on accident.

2. Who is the UI? This could be anyone but Traube. I'm also a less likely possibility if you believe any of my claims. Everyone else is an equal possibility. Being stuck with no partner and no more info than an ordinary rebel, they could have gone any route. Go pro-town to avoid suspicion and assume you can't actually be killed by Hutts? Maybe. Get pissy and stop posting forcing MattyG to replace you? Maybe. Coast with very few meaningful posts? Maybe. Create an elaborate role claim that strings the town and hutts along for multiple days? CERTAINLY NOT.

and then possibly

3. Who are the remaining Hutts? Obviously if we solve 1 and 2 but haven't won, we have to deal with this.

 

[Palmer_v1]

Just some (probably crazy) thought. But couldn't Palmer be the thief?

lol, you missed that train by like 2 hours. Go back and read!

 

[Zippedpinhead]

So thre people have voted

YesNOnoNOyes : eJawa
Palmer: redhood
Myself : matt attack

And it takes five to instant detain, I have a feeling this is going to come down to the wire.

My only defense before today was that I am an ordinary rebel, today I am trying to give you all options on what to do to get out these scum after I die and you all realize that I really am a rebel.

Seriously, you all have spent so much time looking at each other and me and I am still the most scummy person left?

Something else to consider, does any one person benefit if the hutts kill another single person tonight? That might help you identify who to get tomorrow. Try to point out a whole bunch of things, it may limit who the mafia kills.