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[Fireblend]

I can understand Sakurai's/Nintendo's reasons for roster parity, but I think it's rather silly. I mean, rationally, people should either want as much content as possible on the version they're going to play (or, given that the 3DS version already came out, be content with the content in that one), or accept the shortcomings of the 3DS version and not "resent" the inclusion of extra characters on the Wii U which doesn't have those shortcomings. It's pretty obvious that if at this point the Ice Climbers are added to the Wii U version, it's not because Nintendo wants to short-change 3DS owners or make them buy a Wii U for exclusive content, but because their inclusion is technically impossible on that platform.

That said, I'm more than happy with the roster as it is, so I don't feel too strongly about the issue, or the Ice Climbers in particular. Would I like more/exclusive characters on the Wii U version? Sure! Even if I wasn't going to buy it, I hope the game is as good as it can possibly be. It's not going to make me enjoy the 3DS version any less! But as the roster is right now, if it's the same on Wii U, I don't really mind. It's still a day 1 purchase for me.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Man has it been casually discussed how much the title theme for this game smashes Brawl's into a wall? Just sitting at the demo character select screen bobbing my head.

I love it. Uematsu was cool and gave Brawl that "epic" feeling but it wasn't a great fit with the franchise's tone, imo. The new theme on the other hand is perfect.

 

[IntelliHeath]

It's not just duck hunt. I'd give up a ton of characters for them That's how much I miss them.

I'd give up literally everyone outside of zelda universe My ideal roster would be Link, Toon Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Ice climbers - cut everyone else because I dont play them.

Do you really miss Ice Climbers or you just want your girlfriend playing the game with you?

 

[chaosblade]

I know you said that but I found those kind of behaviors very selfish. You wouldn't see me wishing same thing for people's wanted characters, such like this example: Eh, I'd trade Lucina as a 3DS exclusive character for Ice Climbers as a Wii U exclusive character. But I guess I'm in the minority.

Because people deserve to play their own characters in both versions.

I'm really glad that Sakurai is one that making the game, not Smash Fans. I can promise you that once Smash community have ability to make Smash Bros, no one would willing to agree on anything and people would be on many different pages with their opinions. The game is more likely to ended up being cesspool.

I wouldn't really care if you said that or felt that way, you're free to have your opinion and to post it. It's not like any one person's opinion about something like this means anything so it's not worth getting offended over. Especially when that opinion is also acknowledged as an unpopular one.

I mean, everyone has characters that they would like to see in the game, and others in the game that they don't particularly care about. It's not really a big deal point that out.

Spoiler

And Project M is like a million times better than Brawl so fans already one uped Sakurai on Wii.

 

[emb]

Let's be honest, most people here begging IC's are probably those who play them once in a blue moon then call them quits.

I fall into that category. I want ICs back, even though I don't like playing them. It's a shame we don't have them back.

I think people overestimate how finished they were though. If they were back, it would probably mean one of the other characters wouldn't be here. I'd rather have them than some of the newcomers I guess, but at that point it's just a toss up. I'm not that broken up about the version parity excuse.

But the hypothetical people seem to be talking about, where everything is the same, except that the Wii U version has one extra character? Of course that would be for the best. 3DS owners get the same roster they're getting, and Wii U players get that + 1. No one actually loses anymore than we're all already losing right now.

 

[Fiktion]

I love it. Uematsu was cool and gave Brawl that "epic" feeling but it wasn't a great fit with the franchise's tone, imo. The new theme on the other hand is perfect.

The entire Brawl aesthetic was off in my opinion. Washed out colors and realistic textures made things look drab.

Smash 4 really pops visually.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Ideally we'd just never have cut characters. It's not Marvel vs Capcom territory (no Venom in UMVC3 u wot), but it's a shame the roster doesn't just grow exponentially with each game. We'd have like 57 characters.

Here's an interesting trade off: a fairly barebones Smash with ALL the characters, but no zany modes or collectibles. Do you bite?

 

[SuperSah]

Actually, I know some people who actually do use the Ice Climbers.. Including myself. But even then, that doesn't mean people don't appreciate such a unique character as them. They were such a huge part to Smash, that nobody would have ever thought to be cut.

Of course! I totally understand that they are loved by many, but I honestly have never saw any attention for them prior to this whole fiasco.

Would people act the same if say, Luigi was cut?

 

[IntelliHeath]

I wouldn't really care if you said that or felt that way, you're free to have your opinion and to post it. It's not like any one person's opinion about something like this means anything so it's not worth getting offended over. Especially when that opinion is also acknowledged as an unpopular one.

I mean, everyone has characters that they would like to see in the game, and others in the game that they don't particularly care about. It's not really a big deal point that out.

Spoiler

And Project M is like a million times better than Brawl so fans already one uped Sakurai on Wii.

Project M = Smash Community? I don't think so. It's just a small group of people working together. not entirely smash community.

 

[Poltergust]

I wonder what the chances are of this being the last Sakurai led SSB. A non-Sakurai SSB will come one day. I'm frightened.

I think it'll be fine. Kirby: Triple Deluxe proves that Nintendo can make games that look and feel like they were designed by Sakurai without actually needing him to work on it.

 

[Dr. Buni]

I know you said that but I found those kind of behaviors very selfish. You wouldn't see me wishing same thing for people's wanted characters, such like this example: "Eh, I'd trade Lucina as a 3DS exclusive character for Ice Climbers as a Wii U exclusive character. But I guess I'm in the minority." I strongly believe that people deserve to play their own characters in both versions.

I'm really glad that Sakurai is one that making the game, not Smash Fans. I can promise you that once Smash community have ability to make Smash Bros, no one would willing to agree on anything and people would be on many different pages with their opinions. The game is more likely to ended up being cesspool.

This.

 

[Durden77]

I wonder what the chances are of this being the last Sakurai led SSB. A non-Sakurai SSB will come one day. I'm frightened.

If they got a talanted director and used his blueprints, I wouldn't be opposed to it.

 

[C.Olimar788]

I would like to believe that Sakurai and his team is keeping their eyes on criticisms of Smash 3DS and that Smash Wii U will come with some general game changes to make the game a little better for everyone. One huge thing would be making characters die a little faster, whether that means shrinking the blast boxes, modifying stale move negation, or something else.

Then again, I also wanted to believe that Sakurai would pay attention to the competitive community and give the Final Destination stages platforms and that hasn't happened, so...

 

[emb]

Of course! I totally understand that they are loved by many, but I honestly have never saw any attention for them prior to this whole fiasco.

Would people act the same if say, Luigi was cut?

People would be way more upset. He's Luigi!

But I do see what you mean. It reminds me of Ness in Brawl. After the "up until now" fiasco, I found myself really missing Ness, and even started playing him here and there when I never did before. Sometimes you don't miss characters until they're gone.

Spoiler

I wish ICs were back, but they're honestly kind of annoying to fight and in a small way I'm a little glad.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I think it'll be fine. Kirby: Triple Deluxe proves that Nintendo can make games that look and feel like they were designed by Sakurai without actually needing him to work on it.

If that's the case then please Kid Icarus: Uprising Revengeance

 

[ArchedThunder]

Eh? Pokémon X & Y has shown decent legs akin to that of previous generations. It just seems different because it was worldwide launch, rather than staggered.

The Japanese sales fell right off a cliff.

 

[chaosblade]

I wonder what the chances are of this being the last Sakurai led SSB. A non-Sakurai SSB will come one day. I'm frightened.

Another thing I'm in the minority on - I totally welcome someone else coming in and taking change that doesn't have some of Sakurai and Miyamoto's ridiculous game design philosophies.

Imagine an online mode with options and lobbies!

 

[Zubz]

Oh, Central Highway from MMX would make a great SSB stage:

Sakurai, DLC, pls

Please, Sakurai. Do it not for me, but for the betterment of mankind!

I'm also gonna throw my hat in with Bombman's level in an 8-Bit Style, as well as the Wily Star from Mega Man V on the Game Boy (Skull Castle, but also a Space Station).

 

[ffdgh]

I think it'll be fine. Kirby: Triple Deluxe proves that Nintendo can make games that look and feel like they were designed by Sakurai without actually needing him to work on it.

Dirty and beauty not being a music theme in smash 3ds is such a missed chance.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I know you said that but I found those kind of behaviors very selfish. You wouldn't see me wishing same thing for people's wanted characters, such like this example: "Eh, I'd trade Lucina as a 3DS exclusive character for Ice Climbers as a Wii U exclusive character. But I guess I'm in the minority." I strongly believe that people deserve to play their own characters in both versions.

I'm really glad that Sakurai is one that making the game, not Smash Fans. I can promise you that once Smash community have ability to make Smash Bros, no one would willing to agree on anything and people would be on many different pages with their opinions. The game is more likely to ended up being cesspool.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. There's no reason why both versions shouldn't have both characters unless on version simply can't handle them, in which case they should be in the version that can.

 

[Glass Rebel]

The entire Brawl aesthetic was off in my opinion. Washed out colors and realistic textures made things look drab.

Smash 4 really pops visually.

Absolutely. I always liked the idea that the fighters were figurines come to life. Looking at the Brawl models just made me think: "Who the fuck would buy these?"

 

[Dr. Buni]

I really don't want a Smash Bros without Sakurai as the lead

Then again, I also wanted to believe that Sakurai would pay attention to the competitive community and give the Final Destination stages platforms and that hasn't happened, so...

Final Destination stages are fine (as are the current blast zones). You competitive people complain about everything Sakurai puts in the game.

unless on version simply can't handle them, in which case they should be in the version that can.

In that case, the character shouldn't be in the game at all.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I really don't want a Smash Bros without Sakurai as the lead
Final Destination stages are fine (as are the current blast zones). You competitive people complain about everything Sakurai puts in the game.

But FD is specifically for the competitive people

 

[Green Mamba]

The reason I'm calling it cuts is that they are weird blank in these images (that were posted on 4chan). One weird blank lines up with where Tharja should be presumably. I believe the one with the playable characters is missing the Ice Climbers alt and I guess there's a cut assist trophy

Wow, lots of interesting stuff here.

--The file is mirrored. If you pay attention to the character trophy list, going in the correct mirrored order, right to left, top to bottom, the hole in the character trophy list is exactly where the Ice Climbers should be according to Melee and Brawl's internal character ordering.
--As mentioned, Tharja is conspicuously missing. ESRB probably told them to remove it.
--There are some trophies from disparate series that are mixed in with other series--these are probably holes in the series list that were later filled in by others. Like Dunban is where there should be a Sonic character.
--The first listed non-playable Pokemon trophies are Pokemon Trainer, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Mewtwo, and Pichu, in that order.
--The Assist section is funky. There is a conspicuous hole between the Sablé Prince and Riki. Barbara Bat, a ReDead, Doc Louis, a 3D Excitebiker, and the Ice Climbers (!) are listed in the Assist Trophy section.

Interesting stuff.

 

[C.Olimar788]

In theory, I think stale moves are good idea. Unfortunately, as it is, it does not work in practice, because it ends up punishing to much characters that don't have many reliable kill options.

I think that a less punitive (smaller queue, less reduction to knockback/damage) would be perfect. It would encourage people to think about the moves they use, but not be so damn harsh to characters with only a few kill options.

I don't think that stale moves are really necessary at all - a fighting game has an intrinsically built in risk/reward of using the same move a bunch in your opponent adapting to your move. Adding additional reasons to not use moves seems needless to me.

If they must keep it, though, it should definitely be modified. I would personally prefer if it went back to just modifying damage, but a smaller queue would be welcome as well. Reduced knockback scaling is a must.

 

[chaosblade]

But FD is specifically for the competitive people

FD is not even neutral in P:M, it's counterpick :lol

 

[Spinosaurus]

Battlefield is a much more neutral stage than FD though.

 

[Moonlight]

I would like to believe that Sakurai and his team is keeping their eyes on criticisms of Smash 3DS and that Smash Wii U will come with some general game changes to make the game a little better for everyone. One huge thing would be making characters die a little faster, whether that means shrinking the blast boxes, modifying stale move negation, or something else.

Then again, I also wanted to believe that Sakurai would pay attention to the competitive community and give the Final Destination stages platforms and that hasn't happened, so...

I'd like to think For Glory mode would make for a slightly more accessible way for the development team to notice certain quirks of the mechanics and balance, rather than peeking at western tourney streams and the like.

I don't really expect any changes from a mechanical standpoint, though. At this point, the best I'm hoping for is that they decide that they'd prefer people to die a little earlier and adjust the blast zones for the stages on the WiiU version.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Another thing I'm in the minority on - I totally welcome someone else coming in and taking change that doesn't have some of Sakurai and Miyamoto's ridiculous game design philosophies.

Imagine an online mode with options and lobbies!

Because Sakurai does nothing good in anyway whatsoever?

 

[georly]

Ice Climbers are shit anyways, but that's my opinion and doesn't reflect everyone, naturally.

We're not friends anymore!

Do you really miss Ice Climbers or you just want your girlfriend playing the game with you?

Both, I learned to love them once she started playing them a lot w/ me. I used to not like them either, but now I think they're great after playing w/ and against them a ton.

That said, it's a shame that they were really only good because of the chain grab, so I would have LOVED to see what sakurai would have done w/ them in smash 4 now that chain grabs are impossible.

 

[chaosblade]

Because Sakurai does nothing good in anyway whatsoever?

I didn't say that anywhere in my post.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I really don't want a Smash Bros without Sakurai as the lead

It's going to happen, he can't keep making Smash forever, nor does he want to, and Nintendo isn't going to let the franchise die because he isn't making it anymore.

 

[Poltergust]

FD is not even neutral in P:M, it's counterpick :lol

Well, think about it through the designer's perspective. They intended to make FD the "fairest" stage, right? In that case, it's very likely that the character balancing was done through FD, so it's possible that FD really is the most neutral stage in this game.

 

[C.Olimar788]

Final Destination stages are fine (as are the current blast zones). You competitive people complain about everything Sakurai puts in the game.

I can't imagine why people who are competitively-oriented would want improvements to a mode that is specifically focused on being competitive. That's so weird.

Bitter sarcasm aside, FD simply isn't a very neutral stage and adding variations of platforms to the "FD" versions of stages would go a long way towards letting the neutral stages have more variety. Just look at Project M - all of its neutral/counterpick stage modifications are effectively "FD" versions but with varying platforms and, as a result, it has a wide variety of stages to play on (so wide that a recent stage pack actually decreased the number for competition!). It's kinda a bummer that right now it's looking like tournaments will just be FD/Battlefield/Yoshi's Island.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I didn't say that anywhere in my post.

Oh I know sorry I didn't mean to straw man, I just believe personally we'd lose more than we'd gain.

 

[Glass Rebel]

It can't be that hard to add platforms to every FD stage in an update...

right?

 

[Codeblue]

Well, think about it through the designer's perspective. They intended to make FD the "fairest" stage, right? In that case, it's very likely that the character balancing was done through FD, so it's possible that FD really is the most neutral stage in this game.

I'd imagine that honor belongs to Battlefield.

 

[emb]

Another thing I'm in the minority on - I totally welcome someone else coming in and taking change that doesn't have some of Sakurai and Miyamoto's ridiculous game design philosophies.

Imagine an online mode with options and lobbies!

I can get on board with that too. I think the foundation of these games laid by developers like those is amazing and absolutely key to how great they are, but there are some little hang ups here and there that hold them back.

In particular, trying to cater to the voiceless majority that isn't good at video games. We get it, you're being inclusive.

I love that Smash is easy to play. But no one should ever trip, no one should air dodge multiple times in the air, and the blast zones should be smaller than China. Stop trying to make your games worse for these people. And no one wants to shake the Wii remote while holding forward to roll in DK. Get outta here with stuff like that.

Edit: I realize I kinda went overboard with the rant there. Just laugh and move on, thanks.

I'm not saying these games should be too hard for kids. I'm saying you should make the best game you can, instead of sacrificing quality for accessibility. If it's a good game, kids'll play it anyway, and you can monetize the community more when the game actually lasts.

 

[Clefargle]

Yeah, that'd be great.

Keep roster parity please.

Ice Climbers are shit anyways, but that's my opinion and doesn't reflect everyone, naturally.

They aren't shit, but I agree. They aren't as important as full roster parity. If nintendo wants to unify both handheld and console this is how it starts.

 

[OmegaSmash]

Just leave Smash to Bamco, and tell them to not go stupid with the DLC and it should be fine.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Oh I know sorry I didn't mean to straw man, I just believe personally we'd lose more than we'd gain.

You don't know that, I hate that people assume that. Many franchises get new directors and are just fine, they just need to find the right person, probably someone that Sakurai would pick.

 

[Green Mamba]

In that case, the character shouldn't be in the game at all.

Yeah, wouldn't want the 3DS only players to get sour grapes, like Sah already has (but that was a given, lol).

Two options:
1. 3DS and the Wii U version have the exact cast it has now.
2. 3DS version has the exact cast it has now. Wii U version has the same +Ice Climbers.

Option 1 is preferable because ???

 

[Axass]

Here's an interesting trade off: a fairly barebones Smash with ALL the characters, but no zany modes or collectibles. Do you bite?

Where do I sign?

 

[Troubled Bat]

Of course! I totally understand that they are loved by many, but I honestly have never saw any attention for them prior to this whole fiasco.

Would people act the same if say, Luigi was cut?

That's because as I have said before, nobody has ever expected them to be a character that would be cut because of how unique they are.

But then of course, you have the issue of how they were already working on the Wii U. Basically teasing fans, and ending cutting them out in general. People will get hurt by that.

Of course! It's Luigi. Mario needs his bro.

 

[Poltergust]

I'd imagine that honor belongs to Battlefield.

It could be, but it's too early to tell.

I mean, in Brawl, Smashville was actually the most neutral stage.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

Just leave Smash to Bamco, and tell them to not go stupid with the DLC and it should be fine.

Only if they add panties back in.

 

[KittenMaster]

I blame a certain decade old internet meme for everything.

 

[Beats]

Here's an interesting trade off: a fairly barebones Smash with ALL the characters, but no zany modes or collectibles. Do you bite?

I'd take it.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Just leave Smash to Bamco, and tell them to not go stupid with the DLC and it should be fine.

Summer Time Smash Bros?

 

[PKrockin]

Well, think about it through the designer's perspective. They intended to make FD the "fairest" stage, right? In that case, it's very likely that the character balancing was done through FD, so it's possible that FD really is the most neutral stage in this game.

We have 51 characters each with their own set of 51 matchups to consider. The fairest stage will be one found by each player taking turns striking from an odd number of stages before the match.