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[GreenLiquid]

Sakurai said the first priority of Smash 4 was drafting the roster.
The roster was initially drafted in February 2012, following the completion of KIU

Now the leak listed XY Pokemon and Chrom. This part of the leak was from the same snapshot in time, meaning Chrom was on the list at the same time a reserved XY Pokemon rep was. We already know Sakurai confirmed that XY reserved a rep for a period of time, and when Greninja was chosen, he didnt even have a name, and was based off of concept art.

The next major part is Chrom. Sakurai said he initially considered Chrom, but chose Robin AFTER he played FEA. Well, FEA came out in April 2012. 2 months after the roster was drafted.

The pieces fit far too well.

The problem I have with that is that it accepts as a premise that the roster was finalized in February, then takes as another premise that it wasn't actually finalized in February because something changed later because the leak was wrong. If that one exception is allowed, why not others? Maybe the roster being "finalized" isn't as exact as we might like to think. After all, Brawl got outright delayed for a late character addition to its roster.

EDIT:

Yes, but at that point, we're arguing about something that's impossible to prove one way or the other, so what's the point? It's like the Palutena pic: it may have been fake, or it may have been a real-but-old pic, and model was just slightly altered after the fact. There's no way for us to know, so we call it a draw. It's the same thing with the Gematsu leak. If it turns out to be mostly right, then we likely won't be able to finally determine whether it was a true leak or a guess.

That's very true. I'm only making the distinction because I've seen people conflate people disbelieving the leak with people saying that the things predicted by the leak are factually false even if they're likely otherwise. But you're right, we're unlikely to ever know even if a leak turns out to be a completely wild guess.

 

[Senselessb]

So wouldn't the obvious conclusion be that the roster was subject to much change after the initial draft and Chorus Men and Shulk aren't 100% things? That's one character dropped and three (Rosalina, Lucina, and Robin) picked up at least.

Of course it was subject to change, and it has. We cant argue that. However, the bulk of the roster remained the same and was developed as planned. The leaker himself promises he knows Shulk did not change from the roster, so we will have to see the truth soon. The only character we cant be sure about are the Chorus Men, but the RH enemy suggests we are very likely to get some RH, regardless if it is actually Chorus Men.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Chrom just dropped out of that boat.

The boat I'm referring to is the source of his info, not the accuracy.

Even if some of his info ends up being wrong, like Chrom, none of it was made up. I side-eye every person that actually thinks he put Chrom in his leaks simply because he thought he would be a shoo-in. That's the kind of thing people WITHOUT valid info put in their "leaks."

The problem I have with that is that it accepts as a premise that the roster was finalized in February, then takes as another premise that it wasn't actually finalized in February because something changed later because the leak was wrong. If that one exception is allowed, why not others? Maybe the roster being "finalized" isn't as exact as we might like to think. After all, Brawl got outright delayed for a late character addition to its roster.

I don't think the roster was finalized in the literal sense, but rather, the volume of it was finalized along with most of the characters themselves, with a small number of predetermined slots taking the place of the characters that would eventually fill them: "Pokemon from X&Y" "Fire Emblem Awakening main protagonist"

 

[Beelzebufo]

Star Fox was in its prime in 2008? It was just coming off of Assault and Command, games that got mediocre reviews and probably didn't sell too hot either.

I would argue that WFT is definitely not an obvious choice. I didn't see anyone picking her at all. The crossover between Wii Fit and Smash fans is fairly minimal. WFT is barely even a character in her own game.

The old Brawl roster leaks that turned out to be right... we will never really know if they are leaks or just lucky guesses. The point is the real roster was right there in front of our eyes, yet we didn't know.

I was joking. Anyone who thinks those leakers or the Gematsu leaker didn't have legit information are fooling themselves. Neither were obvious choices, and getting those perfect combinations is impossible with guesses.

But seriously, anyone have a link to the interview where Sakurai said Chrom was planned up until Awakening's release?

 

[Toxi]

Of course it was subject to change, and it has. We cant argue that. However, the bulk of the roster remained the same and was developed as planned. The leaker himself promises he knows Shulk did not change from the roster, so we will have to see the truth soon. The only character we cant be sure about are the Chorus Men, but the RH enemy suggests we are very likely to get some RH, regardless if it is actually Chorus Men.

The leaker also said he was 100% sure Shulk would be shown on the day Lucina and Robin were.

We have no clue what has actually changed, and to be honest I don't think he does either.

 

[Senselessb]

I was joking. Anyone who thinks those leakers or the Gematsu leaker didn't have legit information are fooling themselves. Neither were obvious choices, and getting those perfect combinations is impossible with guesses.

But seriously, anyone have a link to the interview where Sakurai said Chrom was planned up until Awakening's release?

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/t...-interview-why-chrom-wasnt-in-ssb4.454113949/ quick google search
to quote sakurai:

"I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means.
At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.
Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!"

 

[Beelzebufo]

The leaker also said he was 100% sure Shulk would be shown on the day Lucina and Robin were.

We have no clue what has actually changed, and to be honest I don't think he does either.

I'm pretty sure that was just because of the retweet. We all thought that.

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/t...-interview-why-chrom-wasnt-in-ssb4.454113949/ quick google search
to quote sakurai:

"I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means.
At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.
Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!"

That doesn't really fit the story though. It doesn't say that Chrom was going to be the playable character until he played Awakening. It just sounds like after playing Awakening, he couldn't decide between Chrom and Robin, and then picked Robin.

 

[rjinaz]

The leaker also said he was 100% sure Shulk would be shown on the day Lucina and Robin were.

We have no clue what has actually changed, and to be honest I don't think he does either.

I don't believe those exact words were used. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Fandangox]

I don't believe those exact words were used. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

He said that Shulk was 100% in after Robin and Lucina were shown and people started doubting his credibility.

Before that all he said was that he got an email that said "Enjoy my good friend Shulk " and that was pretty much it.

 

[Senselessb]

The leaker also said he was 100% sure Shulk would be shown on the day Lucina and Robin were.

We have no clue what has actually changed, and to be honest I don't think he does either.

Actually no he didnt. While it is strongly implied, he just said "enjoy my good friend shulk"

and then he sent a follow up email the morning before the video explaining that he actually does not know Shulk is going to be revealed, but he knows for a fact Shulk is playable. He also said, oddly enough, that the other characters (Chrom and Chorus Men) were subject to change, and he doesnt know if they actually got in, as Sakurai keeps a lot hidden from Namco employees (giving away he works there)

 

[Toxi]

Star Fox was in it's prime,

That was Metroid.

Also, your ban lifted? Oh dear.

I'm pretty sure that was just because of the retweet. We all thought that.

He later tried to explain that Sakurai must have changed the trailer. It's pretty obvious what he was thinking.

Actually no he didnt. While it is strongly implied, he just said "enjoy my good friend shulk"

and then he sent a follow up email the morning before the video explaining that he actually does not know Shulk is going to be revealed, but he knows for a fact Shulk is playable. He also said, oddly enough, that the other characters (Chrom and Chorus Men) were subject to change, and he doesnt know if they actually got in, as Sakurai keeps a lot hidden from Namco employees (giving away he works there)

It's more likely that his info is second-hand. You don't risk your job security like that online.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

I don't believe those exact words were used. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

I believe his exact words were "enjoy my good friend shulk " which, it seems to me, is just a coy way of saying "Shulk is 100% going to be revealed tomorrow." At least, he was very confident Shulk was coming.

 

[BassForever]

Gematsu got baited like EVERYONE did by the monolith software guy retweeting the smash newcomer announcement lol

 

[Tripon]

I'm pretty sure that was just because of the retweet. We all thought that.


That doesn't really fit the story though. It doesn't say that Chrom was going to be the playable character until he played Awakening. It just sounds like after playing Awakening, he couldn't decide between Chrom and Robin, and then picked Robin.

...Are you doubting Sakurai's own words?

 

[Beelzebufo]

...Are you doubting Sakurai's own words?

No... That's the problem. He never said that he decided on Chrom before he played awakening. He said that he played Awakening, then picked a character. I'm doubting that poster's interpretation of Sakurai's words, which I think is wrong.

 

[Senselessb]

I'm pretty sure that was just because of the retweet. We all thought that.


That doesn't really fit the story though. It doesn't say that Chrom was going to be the playable character until he played Awakening. It just sounds like after playing Awakening, he couldn't decide between Chrom and Robin, and then picked Robin.

The thing is, the roster was drafted two months before the release of FEA, so at the very least he had a "FEA Rep" reserved, much like the XY rep. But since Intelligent Systems lets Sakurai know about their products in advanced (look at Roy in melee), he likely got in talks with them regarding a potential candidate. I think this is a fair assumption, am I right?

 

[Beelzebufo]

The thing is, the roster was drafted two months before the release of FEA, so at the very least he had a "FEA Rep" reserved, much like the XY rep. But since Intelligent Systems lets Sakurai know about their products in advanced (look at Roy in melee), he likely got in talks with them regarding a potential candidate. I think this is a fair assumption, am I right?

Not really, it's still a large assumption. The way you made your post, I thought Sakurai confirmed it in an interview that Chrom was originally goin to be playable. There's nothing in that article to suggest that was the case, Chrom was just considered alongside Robin, and Robin got the spot. I was just disappointed because I thought you had some hard evidence that that happened, and you didn't.

Like it would be another thing entirely if the interview said "We originally planned to make Chrom playable, based on early sketches. But after playing Awakening, I realized Robin was a much more unique choice, and added him instead. Chrom was then incorporated into his final smash" if you know what I'm saying. He didn't really beat around the bush when it came to why Greninja would be referred to as "Pokemon from XY".

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

I remember that too. Because it didn't make any sense for a game like Smash Bros to be making up its own generic baddies when they had franchise after franchise of minions to draw from. I don't think anybody expected, or wanted, and Adventure Mode where you journey through "jungle" and "spacey laboratory" and fight cyclopic fish and tiny stick figures instead of popular and iconic Nintendo locales where you fight popular and iconic Nintendo enemies.
.

No, the Ram was believed to be from Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. I do recall a similar enemy.

Also people said the one weird fish dude with the spears was from...Dynamite Heady? There was some non-Nintendo game a few people thought it was from believing it to be a hint.

 

[rjinaz]

I believe his exact words were "enjoy my good friend shulk " which, it seems to me, is just a coy way of saying "Shulk is 100% going to be revealed tomorrow." At least, he was very confident Shulk was coming.

Right, I agree, it was obvious that was the intention that the leaker was confident about it, I was just saying the leaker didn't say it was 100 percent outright, I think that if he had said that outright, I would feel differently about the leaker today than I do right now. I am biased though because I really want Shulk in the game. I don't deny it.

 

[-Horizon-]

Actually no he didnt. While it is strongly implied, he just said "enjoy my good friend shulk"

and then he sent a follow up email the morning before the video explaining that he actually does not know Shulk is going to be revealed, but he knows for a fact Shulk is playable. He also said, oddly enough, that the other characters (Chrom and Chorus Men) were subject to change, and he doesnt know if they actually got in, as Sakurai keeps a lot hidden from Namco employees (giving away he works there)

I haven't been keeping exact track of the timing of all this but if this is true, that's interesting.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

The leaker also said he was 100% sure Shulk would be shown on the day Lucina and Robin were.

We have no clue what has actually changed, and to be honest I don't think he does either.

Actually, you mixed together things he said at two completely different times.

Before the Robin/Lucina reveal, the only thing he said was "enjoy my good friend Shulk"

After the Robin/Lucina reveal he said that "Shulk is still 100%" as reassurance that despite him not being revealed on Monday, he's still coming.

 

[Niosai]

I know it's probably old news, but I just wanted to bring up the possibility of Rayman being playable in the game. After the Robin and co. reveal, the discussion died down quickly. Do you think it's a realistic possibility, GAF? In this video at around 2:11, he mentions Rayman directly after PacMan. While this is far from a confirmation, it's still interesting to note.

 

[Sponge]

I know it's probably old news, but I just wanted to bring up the possibility of Rayman being playable in the game. After the Robin and co. reveal, the discussion died down quickly. Do you think it's a realistic possibility, GAF? In this video at around 2:11, he mentions Rayman directly after PacMan. While this is far from a confirmation, it's still interesting to note.

I'm thinking he just mistook Mega Man for Rayman. I haven't watched the whole video though, does he even mention Mega Man?

 

[(mat)]

I hope you don't consider this self-promoting or anything. If so, I'll remove it, but I just thought you guys would enjoy this.

I just uploaded a video of my Mom reading the names of the currently announced Smash Bros. 4 characters. I've seen a lot of pictures where people have done this, but having my Mom do this on a live audio recording was more fun, I think.

 

[GreenLiquid]

Actually no he didnt. While it is strongly implied, he just said "enjoy my good friend shulk"

and then he sent a follow up email the morning before the video explaining that he actually does not know Shulk is going to be revealed, but he knows for a fact Shulk is playable. He also said, oddly enough, that the other characters (Chrom and Chorus Men) were subject to change, and he doesnt know if they actually got in, as Sakurai keeps a lot hidden from Namco employees (giving away he works there)

Ooh, I didn't know about this. If this is true I might actually lean towards believing the leak again. Exciting twists!

 

[Toxi]

Star Fox was in it's prime,

Star Fox was in its prime in 2008?

The only series in its Prime at that time was Metroid.

 

[Beelzebufo]

The only series in its Prime at that time was Metroid.

Didn't you make that joke twice?

EDIT: You did lol

That was Metroid.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

The point is discussion. It gives people material to talk about and to get excited about. It's really all there is to it. It reminds me of this one time I told my Brother that I wanted to wait until the previews for next week's episodes came on before changing the channel. He had a puzzled look on his face as he said "what's the point? I mean you are just going to watch the episode next week anyway, why do you need to know only parts of what happens, right now?"

It was hard to come up with an answer but I realized it's simply because it gets me excited about the next week and also gives me something to talk about with my friends.

Fair enough, but then I would expect conversation regarding the legitimacy of the leak to take a backseat to the potential of the characters in it, which is obviously not the case here. Whether or not the leak is true definitely comprises the bulk of the conversation compared to discussing how people feel about Shulk & Chorus Men. It just seems dull to discuss if the leak is true when what's in the leak is waaay more relevant to our experience with the game.

 

[Pumpkins]

I hope you don't consider this self-promoting or anything. If so, I'll remove it, but I just thought you guys would enjoy this.

I just uploaded a video of my Mom reading the names of the currently announced Smash Bros. 4 characters. I've seen a lot of pictures where people have done this, but having my Mom do this on a live audio recording was more fun, I think.

Sharp Shooter Shelly is an awesome name LOL

 

[Forkball]

Didn't you make that joke twice?

You know what's also a joke? A new F-Zero game.

 

[Toxi]

Didn't you make that joke twice?

EDIT: You did lol

I have a short memory.

 

[Senselessb]

Ooh, I didn't know about this. If this is true I might actually lean towards believing the leak again. Exciting twists!

And Sal said he sent him an email after the Robin reveal, and hasnt gotten a response yet. Sal actually said the leaker never responds back. He only sends (for lack of a better term) "one way emails" haha

 

[liquidekkah]

Plot twist, it's Groose.

I would not mind this. Not one bit.

 

[GreenLiquid]

Fair enough, but then I would expect conversation regarding the legitimacy of the leak to take a backseat to the potential of the characters in it, which is obviously not the case here. Whether or not the leak is true definitely comprises the bulk of the conversation compared to discussing how people feel about Shulk & Chorus Men. It just seems dull to discuss if the leak is true when what's in the leak is waaay more relevant to our experience with the game.

I don't really know why but I have fun examining the different leaks out there and judging their credibility, then riding the roller coaster of reveals and having them fall and rise. It's even more interesting when different people come to different conclusions about the same leak and compare notes on reasoning. Sure, talking about the viability of characters is fun too but I want Zoroark so I would just be sad all the time if I did that! D:

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I hope you don't consider this self-promoting or anything. If so, I'll remove it, but I just thought you guys would enjoy this.

I just uploaded a video of my Mom reading the names of the currently announced Smash Bros. 4 characters. I've seen a lot of pictures where people have done this, but having my Mom do this on a live audio recording was more fun, I think.

That was really fun to watch.

 

[Makai]

"Jigglypuff's brother"

 

[Golnei]

"Jigglypuff's brother"

Onii-chan...

 

[(mat)]

Sharp Shooter Shelly is an awesome name LOL

It's got an old NES or Arcade vibe to it.

That was really fun to watch.

Glad you liked it! I imagine it's probably painful to watch, for some.

"Jigglypuff's brother"

I couldn't believe it when that came out of her mouth. My favorite, though, would have to be her struggling with Bowser, and finally coming up with "Wario". Oh, man.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

I hope you don't consider this self-promoting or anything. If so, I'll remove it, but I just thought you guys would enjoy this.

I just uploaded a video of my Mom reading the names of the currently announced Smash Bros. 4 characters. I've seen a lot of pictures where people have done this, but having my Mom do this on a live audio recording was more fun, I think.

"Sword in the stone again." Ike is a Marth clone confirmed.

That was great

 

[Spinosaurus]

I never see anyone recognizing Charizard but always mention Jigglypuff somehow with these "mom names smash characters" thing.

I'm a bit taken aback by it lol

 

[ArchedThunder]

I hope you don't consider this self-promoting or anything. If so, I'll remove it, but I just thought you guys would enjoy this.

I just uploaded a video of my Mom reading the names of the currently announced Smash Bros. 4 characters. I've seen a lot of pictures where people have done this, but having my Mom do this on a live audio recording was more fun, I think.

CAPTAIN AMERICA!
close enough

 

[IntelliHeath]

 

[Forkball]

Why did you post a picture of a non-canon character?

 

[Tripon]

Do you make these Heath?

 

["D"]

What if we got someone totally unexpected like Mike from StarTropics? How would you all react?

 

[MiguelMexMIstery]

Wonder if the guy is gonna do the male Wii Fit Trainer and female Villager.

 

[VandalD]

[QUOTE="D";123698576]What if we got someone totally unexpected like Mike from StarTropics? How would you all react?[/QUOTE]
Whatever, it was totally obvious that Mike from StarTropics was gonna be in Smash.

 

[GreenLiquid]

Whatever, it was totally obvious that Mike from StarTropics was gonna be in Smash.

Aha! Then my "character from NES game" leak was right on the money!

 

[Azure J]

Whatever, it was totally obvious that Mike from StarTropics was gonna be in Smash.

*Mike Jones confirmed as Assist Trophy*

"Shit character is shit, be thankful for that much."

 

[Cody_D165]

[QUOTE="D";123698576]What if we got someone totally unexpected like Mike from StarTropics? How would you all react?[/QUOTE]

tbh, at this point, the roster is already perfect in my book, so I really want something out of left field that no one is expecting.

The newcomer I want the most isn't a newcomer at all. Just hype.