Neoriceisgood
Member
Representing things that are already represented & he's iconic, then?
I don't see it, sorry.
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Super Smash Bros Wii U & 3DS Thread 4: New Year, Old Arguments
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
Representing things that are already represented & he's iconic, then?
I don't see it, sorry.
He's the best that's why!For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would want Toad playable.
Also your toad reminds me of one I sprited long ago
SMB1, 2, 3, World, 64, and Sunshine (+ Galaxy thanks to Rosalina) are the current represented games in Smash via movesets IIRC. Nada for either 3D series or NSMB. Plus there are some good ideas left in some of those old games as well.
Admittedly I don't like any Mario spinoffs that aren't RPGs and Kart, so having someone like Waluigi represent those kinds of games seemed a bit stupid to me. I like some of the extended series games as I said, but I lived and breathed those 2D and 3D platformers so that is why I'm particularly attached to Toad.
If anything that would make him a more unique fighter and a more likely addition.
That's part of the charm.
Sakurai can give whatever character whatever moves he wants, whether or not the game they're from explicitly gives them those potential moves or not. Saying one character will get in over another because they have more "moveset potential" is just plain silly.
As for Toad, personally I find him generic, and terrible. Waluigi is terrible too of course. More terrible than Toad, even. The difference is that he's so terrible that I can't help but love him.
As for Toad, personally I find him generic, and terrible. Waluigi is terrible too of course. More terrible than Toad, even. The difference is that he's so terrible that I can't help but love him.
Neoriceisgood
Member
3D/NSMB have a hybrid stage on 3DS. Either of them could be represented by tons of things just fine.
3D series:
1. A stage based on the amazing visuals (we got land in 3DS, would love a world stage on WiiU)
2. More recent enemies/characters as assists.
3. There's one or two more recent powerups that could work as a smash one (though some might be a bit too intense on the programming, like double cherry)
NSMB:
1. a stage with shitty generic graphics. (could be thrown in stage editor, hahahah.)
2. Mega Mushroom. (you can already use giga mode + mushrooms so why not?)
3. Baby Yoshi as an item. Blue one in particular.
Plenty of things that could be done without overpopulating the roster with relatively meaningless minor mario characters.
Also your toad reminds me of one I sprited long ago
Oh huh, we chose very similar colours for his hood hahahah.
I can do without him, personally. He's just not interesting enough to me.
You hit the nail on the head of my biggest criticism of the SSB series for sure. Sakurai gets a bit too creative with characters to the point that they're too foreign like Donkey Kong, Ganondorf, Lucas, and Wario to name a few. (That last one hit me hard as I never liked WarioWare)
I wish the characters were a bit more like the cast of MvC3 in a sense. It was a joy to see someone like Dante, Arthur, or Amaterasu feeling like they were ripped out of their source games where several of their abilities could be traced back.
For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would want Toad playable.
Im the best!
SkullHydra
Member
I definitely agree with Wario. That's why the Project M version of him makes me so happy. It's perfect!
What....................?
Even more what at Ganondorf falling under this "criticism".
You mean be generally useless can jump and sometimes able to lift things. And in the NMB games grab items?
What can the paint brush do.
First off before I go down , let me remind you that the paint brush can act as a sword.
Well it can open portals through time and space, that he himself and others can access alowing him to combine potential sword combo's with time and space abilities, and he seems to be quite fast. A very interesting long/Close range swords man.
or.
Ding
Next
He can create things with his paint brush Create things with his paint brush and use it as other types of weaponry. Sheild, projectives stuff like that. While generally having on over all painting theme.
Or
Ding.
Lastly
He is BOWSER JR. He already has a potential 2 movesets out of that , his dad or his dad's shit. And since bowser has adopted more wrestling moves, he can be a younger more mobile version of that stuff,
Or
Ding. Lucha lebre
Or if you wanna go the technological route.
or
Ding
4, 4 moves sets. Using what he has available and that is by myself, imagine the move sets I could come up with if I were sakurai and had a team of people.
The Lumas (and Rosalina) are canonically responsible for giving Mario many of those mechanics, though. If the Lumas are willing to entrust Mario with those abilities to help him on his adventure, then surely they would also give their mother those abilities to help her in a fight. I think the Launch Star recovery and item-manipulating forcefield fit Rosalina better as a Smash Bros. character than Mario. It's not exactly the same situation, but look at Zelda -- her special moves are things Link does in Ocarina of Time, but they make more sense for Zelda in the context of Smash Bros.
NeonZ
Member
Huh... did you forget that monsters were born from goo/graffiti. Also, in the last battle against Bowser Junior as Shadow Mario, he uses burning graffiti. I think there was a electric graffiti too, although I don't remember if it was used by him.
Then, there are all his later appearances with various machines, and also Shadow and Cosmic Mario. Maybe he could have an ability to allow him to actually become other characters for a while, completely changing his moveset?
Still, he has pretty much lost his chance, I think. With Rosalina in, I guess the only way we'd see Bowser Jr. would be as a last minute fast Bowser clone if they suddenly decide to increase the cast size, like what was done with Melee's 6 clones.
Creativity is fine if you respect the characters origins and if they play like they should. There are many a Smash character that aren't indicative of their original appearances. I was hoping Sakurai would have revised some of the questionable movesets but based on the cast so far it doesn't seem like he did. (Aside from Pit and Bowser)
For instance when you think of Luigi does human torpedo or negative zone come to mind?
Its been a while since Sunshine so I'll admit I don't recall him using the paintbrush aside from its goo being poisonous. Also come on Village, you want Jr. to play like Vergil, Amaterasu, and Julia? That isn't who Bowser Jr. is and I sure as heck wouldn't be happy if I was looking forward to a character like him only to play like those three.
It just seems like he looked at Luigi internet shit and threw it in his moveset.
As far as Bowser Jr. the creative energy wasted on him could go towards Ganondorf or a new franchise character.
NeonZ
Member
To be fair, it seems like you aren't counting Smash's own history there. The staff of the new Smash Bros in the beginning of development made a drawing with Smash characters which was posted online by Sakurai, and Luigi was there using the missile attack. So, some people did think it was very important.
Brawl generally showed more attention attempting to make the characters true to their own games, if you look at most Brawl characters with completely new movesets. Just compare Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong. However, at the same time, it also showed that Sakurai seemed to consider what was already set by Smash Bros rather significant too. So, none of the established movesets were heavily changed, because they were already "set" - and that hit even newcomers that were supposed to resemble already existing characters, like Lucas and Wolf.
I guess one could argue about Wario, but the main issue there was just Sakurai taking inspiration from WarioWare's animation style and even artwork for movements, rather than the series where it's Wario himself in action (WarioLand).
Ganondorf has had numerous boss fights yet he plays like none of them. Sword taunts are icing on the cake as Sakurai himself acknowledges that Ganondorf doesn't play like his source material. I remember Sakurai publicly dissing MvC series about how their Mega Man didn't represent the character and was just punches and kicks, which looks a bit hypocritical for him to say that.
Edit: Oh I see what you mean, yeah Ganondorf was hardly creative.
NeonZ
Member
What? I don't remember that at all. Smash Megaman even has the Mega Upper from MvC.
The issue with Ganondorf is that he was a last minute character in Melee, who wouldn't even be in the game if it weren't for his physical similarities to Captain Falcon, and in Brawl Sakurai seemed to hesitate in just doing away with what Melee established, doesn't matter the circumstances. So, even though Brawl Ganondorf got mostly unique animations, they were still attacks similar to the ones he had in Melee. Then, again, I guess he could have balanced it better. If Brawl Ganondorf had gotten a couple of attacks from Zelda with energy projectiles or a sword, it'd likely have made him be better received.
The quote was from the developer direct... I think. It was something like "if all we cared about was who we could get in the game then Mega Man would just use punches and kicks like in the Marvel vs. Capcom series".
NeonZ
Member
You mixed up two quotes. He does say that the Megaman in Smash doesn't punch or kick a lot, but he doesn't compare it to Marvel or any other game there. He mentions Marvel right afterwards, but only as the source of the Mega Upper.
Mega Man was trash in that series. Most of the characters created by the MvC3 team were a godsend in their overall design compared to older characters in the series.
As for the quote yeah I got it mixed up. Its in a Polygon interview titled "Masahiro Sakurai discusses the reasons for choosing Super Smash Bros.' latest characters" and the relevant quote is in the beginning of the 4th paragraph.
http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/26/44...es-mega-man-smash-bros-s-other-new-characters
How well they played/faired on a tier list is not the same as how well they represented their series.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Bought a Wii U
So hype
Awesome, whats your NNID
I was talking about design. For instance Magneto is one of the most beloved characters in that series yet he fights nothing like I thought Magneto would, and I wouldn't be surprised if Marvel had beef with that character among others. A lot of the MvC3 characters feel representative of their source compared to previous games in that series.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
A shame tvc roll wasn't in mvc3.....tho that broom was deadly in the right hands.
Sure was deadly in my hands
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
woah, your avatar.
Toad will be a newcomer in Smash 6 when Sakurai is out of Nintendo characters.For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would want Toad playable.
That doesn't change or directly address what I said though.
Mega Man shoots his Mega Blaster, uses Boss' attacks like Leaf Shield, and even uses his Slide as an attack.
They added, yea. It's a fighting game which used 6 attack buttons for normals. But they didn't take anything from him.
Chargeable mega buster, leaf shield, and slide were pretty much his biggest features from the games that made it to Marvel which were cool to see. I'm not saying he was devoid of call backs to the old games, its just that a lot of the character was pretty bland and a bit out there like the ultimate Mega Man (or whatever it is) super. I thought a lot of his move set was uninspired in which case his Smash move set is a breath of fresh air. (Volnutt in TvC was awesome though)
Also Zalman you may be joking but your honestly right. Toad's biggest barricade to Smash Bros. is that Sakurai thinks he is Starfy tier so I fully expect to see Wart, Funky Kong, and Postman before Toad. (The lack of detail and his proportions is basically a deconfirm for him)
Neoriceisgood
Member
:3c Eh?
Neoriceisgood
Member
I hadn't even thought of that, I probably should.
Rosalina on WFT clothes?
OK decided to design Bowser Jr. moveset using paintbrush to a minimum and I actually think he'd be a better character for it as it gives a chance to make him more than just a rep of Sunshine. (Plus my ideas for paintbrush are very basic)
Up B: Koopa Clown Car
Quickly materializes and pulls up Jr. Pressing Up B again allows Jr. to ground pound with the KCC and create a mild shockwave ala Baby Bowser in Yoshi's Island.
Side B: Shell spin similar to Koopalings. Retreats into shell and can attack ala ball Sonic. Move ends when B is released.
Neutral B: Paint counter. Jr. whips out his paintbrush and if he is attacked he sprays the opponent in paint which leaves a temporary poison effect.
Down B: Bullet Bill Cannon. Jr. carries around a cannon that charges a bullet bill until released. He can move with cannon but can't jump like shell spin. Longer the charge the larger/more powerful the bullet bill.
In terms of A's and Smash attacks, most of those are generic but he could borrow a few ideas from Bowser such as claw attacks. I think a good idea for Up smash is Jr. making a tiny fireball in his mouth which is basically Mario's side smash but directed upward. Down Smash could be Bowser Jr. doing a spin with his tail, and side smash could be him holding hitting the opponent with a boxing glove. (No idea why I chose that for him, but his KCC had it in a NSMB boss fight so it's a reference to that)
Final Smash is him polluting the entire stage with goo that hurts the opponents if they touch it in addition to being difficult to walk out of ala quicksand. Jr. additionally wields his paintbrush during the FS where, if he contacts an opponent he "blinds them" thus inverting their controls making them more likely to walk into a goo puddle.
Up B: Koopa Clown Car
Quickly materializes and pulls up Jr. Pressing Up B again allows Jr. to ground pound with the KCC and create a mild shockwave ala Baby Bowser in Yoshi's Island.
Side B: Shell spin similar to Koopalings. Retreats into shell and can attack ala ball Sonic. Move ends when B is released.
Neutral B: Paint counter. Jr. whips out his paintbrush and if he is attacked he sprays the opponent in paint which leaves a temporary poison effect.
Down B: Bullet Bill Cannon. Jr. carries around a cannon that charges a bullet bill until released. He can move with cannon but can't jump like shell spin. Longer the charge the larger/more powerful the bullet bill.
In terms of A's and Smash attacks, most of those are generic but he could borrow a few ideas from Bowser such as claw attacks. I think a good idea for Up smash is Jr. making a tiny fireball in his mouth which is basically Mario's side smash but directed upward. Down Smash could be Bowser Jr. doing a spin with his tail, and side smash could be him holding hitting the opponent with a boxing glove. (No idea why I chose that for him, but his KCC had it in a NSMB boss fight so it's a reference to that)
Final Smash is him polluting the entire stage with goo that hurts the opponents if they touch it in addition to being difficult to walk out of ala quicksand. Jr. additionally wields his paintbrush during the FS where, if he contacts an opponent he "blinds them" thus inverting their controls making them more likely to walk into a goo puddle.
On the topic of Bowser Jr., I think he can be a transformation character if they want to do that.
There's no such thing as "lost a chance".
Creativity is needed for every character since it would be hard to get moves from their games for every move. Some moves are there for balance/gameplay reasons like Luigi's Torpedo which gives it some horizontal recovery. Smash is going to have its own things while trying to keep most other things close to the games as much as possible.
Yup, that's what I mean. I wish they would put his moveset into another character and give him a new moveset.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Rosalina on WFT clothes?
Yeah.
You have some good ideas. I like the idea of Propeller Block for an item that acts as a super recovery item until knocked off the character. Hisstocrat from 3D World would be a cool assist where he summons snakes that fill the stage with some that are platforms and others that are hazards.
For NSMB I'd love a reference to NSMB2 with gold covered/plated stages. Maybe have coin showers that funnily enough would act as stage hazards.
A NSMB stage would have more effort put into the graphics than the entirety of NSMB games put together. That being said, I wouldn't want one because the only thing interesting about NSMB graphics-wise is the background in the haunted swamp area in NSMBU.
I'm curious if a Mii character will have it's own moveset or will you be able to customize it and just use other characters movesets. Not like take specific moves, I mean just go into like "Ganondorf" mode or "Link" mode just with a Mii.
I'm curious if a Mii character will have it's own moveset or will you be able to customize it and just use other characters movesets. Not like take specific moves, I mean just go into like "Ganondorf" mode or "Link" mode just with a Mii.
theprodigy
Member
Spring-Loaded
Member
Give her DK's outfit.