You guys sold out on your stage list, SBR used to be cool maaan. Omniknight must cry himself to sleep every night.
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Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS Thread 2: Where Pilotwings is apparently Minecraft
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
You guys sold out on your stage list, SBR used to be cool maaan. Omniknight must cry himself to sleep every night.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
It's really souring to see when you read all of those tales, and it's not just Melee (though the community is terrible). Like I said, FGC in particular is very bad about this.
I get the criticism against those who play Melee only, but I have to say my experience has been good in both categories. When Brawl first came out, there were plenty of competitive stuff going on integrating both games. Sure, some people still liked Melee better, but I never got hassled for going with Brawl. But this could be the nature of the competitions I attended, where they wanted to do both Melee/Brawl at once.
As a disclaimer, I did a lot of competitive Melee, too (even more than Brawl), but never got that good, as I was never quick enough. Brawl kinda leveled the speed issue for me, and I could compete pretty well.
But, yeah, I kinda agree that Brawl is the Marvel of the Smash world. Nothing wrong with that, though.
As a disclaimer, I did a lot of competitive Melee, too (even more than Brawl), but never got that good, as I was never quick enough. Brawl kinda leveled the speed issue for me, and I could compete pretty well.
But, yeah, I kinda agree that Brawl is the Marvel of the Smash world. Nothing wrong with that, though.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Pic of the day:
Caption: What a great sound a Meteor Smash makes when it slams on an opponent! …Which, I'm sure, you can't tell by the picture.
Mannn... It sucks that Brawl pretty much killed the edge guard game and drastically limited the spiking/meteor smash potential with its floaty physics and auto ledge grab.
I get the criticism against those who play Melee only, but I have to say my experience has been good in both categories. When Brawl first came out, there were plenty of competitive stuff going on integrating both games. Sure, some people still liked Melee better, but I never got hassled for going with Brawl. But this could be the nature of the competitions I attended, where they wanted to do both Melee/Brawl at once.
As a disclaimer, I did a lot of competitive Melee, too (even more than Brawl), but never got that good, as I was never quick enough. Brawl kinda leveled the speed issue for me, and I could compete pretty well.
But, yeah, I kinda agree that Brawl is the Marvel of the Smash world. Nothing wrong with that, though.
You should try out Smash 64 on Kaillera. It's the best of both worlds between Melee/Brawl while still maintaining the competitive depth unlike Brawl.
Don't get me wrong, Brawl is fun but it essentially killed high level competitive Smash.
Red Arremer
Member
I was sooooo against cutting down the stagelist. I've always been advocating allowing more stages, hell, I was one of the biggest supporters of keeping Norfair, lol.
It was both in person and on the specific forums of the region I'm in. Which still is reallllly disgusting towards Brawl, btw. Some of the Melee players even have suggested to put prefix tags for Brawl and Melee into the Introduction sub forum so they know which people they can greet nicely and which they can insult.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yeah, same here. I killed myself few times out of habit with Brawl. Sometime I would tried to spikes but auto ledge grab caused the invincible so I kinda suicided myself for no reason.
Yikes, that's... really bad. I never go to the regional boards so I guess I miss certain people to an extent. Definitely a problem in your region I guess... and unlikely to be easily solved/fix =\
There's definitely always going to be people who will hold the "grudge" I guess and you sort of just have to ignore them and pay more attention to the people like Scar or Prog or Juggleguy or hell anyone who is often seen at a Melee tournament. There's always gonna be bad seeds in either scene that can't learn to move on and let things go.
Red Arremer
Member
Well in this case it's a forum, not a regional board on SWF, but yes. I know what you mean, and I am well aware of this. It didn't even take me long to realize not all Melee players are like that - I've had contact with the Dutch Smash community for instance, and they're all lovely guys, and I kinda came to the conclusion that I just happen to be located in one of the ugliest parts of the Smash community.
I'll be able to deal with it, I think.
Ok see, how am I supposed to read this? He thinks Brawl killed high level competitive Smash yet there exists a sizable group of people that play Brawl at a high level and in a competitive nature. Am I to put an "IMO" at the end of everyone's post now? And even then, that doesn't solve anything. If you can freely believe a large group of competitors can play a game for years and not achieve an acceptable level of depth then you can lay waste to any commonly held beliefs. Third Strike has little competitive depth IMO.
Depth isn't something you can just IMO away. Its almost nearly quite literally data. Thousands of matches weight against thousands of results and the evolving nature of it all turning in over itself, recursively over and over and over again to produce more matches and more results to the reevaluate all that has come before it. You just can't ignore data.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I didn't say it killed the competitive Smash scene, I just said it killed competitive Smash (gameplay in general, comparatively).
And I'm seriously not trying to sound elitist when I say this as anyone who knows me understands that that's not the type of person/poster I am, but after playing and watching countless hours 64/Melee/Brawl for years on a high level for each game, Brawl doesn't have that level of depth that 64/Melee has because the gameplay doesn't lend itself to it. It just doesn't.
I bleed Smash Bros., so I could never hate on someone who likes playing Brawl. However, in terms of competitive viability, Brawl is no where near its predecessors.
Austrian, right?
Yeah, that's basically the problem.
Certain European countries have this huge problem with Melee elitism. Waaaay worse than you'd experience in the states or even Holland, which is a pretty chill and mixed community.
There are a couple of swedes in particular which I find very disgusting in their behavior towards anything that mentions the word "Brawl". However, this isn't the norm, and even those who hate the game Brawl usually don't mind Brawl players at all, they just don't like the game, like at all.
I play both games competitively, and I'm touch with both parts of the community. The Melee guys are super fun and nice, but man, if the Brawl topic gets brought up, they'll trashtalk it to no end. It's just something we have to live with. A lot of them feel "betrayed"(Although I find this to be pretty stupid, personally)
My theory is that Brawl gets more hate than it deserves because a lot of Melee players gave it a chance in 2008, thought it sucked, went back to melee and never really looked at Brawl again.
Which is a shame, if I had judged Melee by its first years, it would've looked waay slower than Brawl. Last couple of years have really made Brawl more fun to spectate(used to be more of a fun to play, not-so-fun to watch kind of game), too bad many still think it looks like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pKZmZfiIsto#t=758
Just some thoughts about it all
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Nope, It's summary thread for people who don't follow main threads.
Also I already worked on OT3 and I might post it tonight regardless of 20,000 or not.
But we've only got like 400 to go!
theprodigy
Member
Brawl did develop somewhat from the beginning, but the amount of changes compared to Melee (or even 64) is minimal
also as long as campy MKs exist, there always will be timeouts
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
This is a large part of it; Smashers who have been playing the game and put countless hours into the lifestyle of getting better by traveling around for tournaments or events feel offended by Brawl's gameplay philosophy.
That's not really fair to say because a lot of the tech and mentality that you see in Brawl stems from years of experience with the previous games.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
You can post it at OT3 when you can.
Actually 382 to go. We better speed it up :3
Most MKs nowadays are playing a very (*gasp*) technically-demanding playstyle with some seriously high execution. They're also waaay more aggro than they used to be.
Sonics and TLs have always been worse than MKs when it comes to timeouts anyways
Delphox isn't as much of a stretch as Braxien at least. Though it doesn't help when Baddie Mcbadtrainer trades me a male Fennekin named Kinniekins.
Awesome. Can't wait to see it.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Don't expect any dramatic changes. It's basically same but I'm losing second OP to reduce the lags for people who would check OP on mobile.
Red Arremer
Member
could you atleast make it not so long? do we really need 50 random screengrabs for it?
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I already answered it like few posts ago. I'm getting rid of second OP to avoid the lags and loading for mobile users.
Troubled Bat
Member
Whooo! OT3 here we come! This is exciting.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
And one whole thread without a newcomer reveal will be closed soon :'(
Hope there'll be one close enough, we got too much veteran already
I'm fine with that because I want more newcomers as secret characters so we can unlocking those characters with gleeful and excited as kids opening their presents during Christmas Day.
Of course, the games are still very similar on the basic level, so a lot carried over.
DI for example; huge part of Smash, both in Melee and Brawl.
That was already known when Brawl came out. However, Brawl brought something new to the table: Momentum canceling. That took a good amount of months to be explored in depth. Then came all these new techniques that involved DI like dualsticking, quarter-circle DI and some other minor stuff.
Other thing, Dash dancing. Huuuge part of Melee, still around in Brawl. But like somebody mentioned earlier, it was fairly impractical in Brawl because of the very short window and chance of tripping.
People discovered that Fox-trotting could work as an alternative; just keep on repeating the initial dashing-frames, and you can run around with more options available than a normal dash. However, this is hard, it demands skill. It actually had so many specific mechanics around it that it's still being explored today.
Crouch canceling may be out, but you'll still see good Marths run really long and fsmash instantly because they've practiced fox-trotting a lot(And this demands Melee-level of execution, mind you)
Things like that changed the game up over the year. It might not have been brand new things, but it evolved previous knowledge and made the game deeper and even improved on some things over Melee IMO
Saying Brawl doesn't have the level of depth that 64/Melee had is pointless, because you're never going to reach the bottom of the skill-lake anyway. It's irrelevant if it's more shallow when it's still too deep to master completely
The only way I'd give you this is because Brawl is the youngest of the Smash games. And if its given that each game shares a similar growth arc then yes, Brawl's data set (depth) would be the smallest of the three games.
Otherwise it just sounds like you can't imagine how a game with no hit-stun and little in the way of combos could be a competitively rich game. Brawl has SO many more dynamics than Smash64. Those dynamics lead to all sorts of interplay that Smash64 doesn't even sniff at. And interplay and counters (and real time decisions) are at the heart of fighting games.
I was at Apex 2013. I saw the Smash64 finals. It had more non-engagement (a trait people bemoan in Brawl) than Brawl has ever had. Whiff whiff, move. Whiff, whiff, move. Whiff whiff whiff. Hit, your dead. Reset. But even still, the core of the battle dynamic is something all three games share and promptly feature. The core of Smash, the dynamics of controlling space more closely resembling the dynamics found in a platformer, is the heart of Smash interplay and counters. People act if Brawl abandons some type of fundamental trait that would cause to fail to live up to this basic inception as a sort of Platform-Fighter.
You said you play the games, and watch videos. Can I ask you. What do you think Brawl players are doing? Are experiencing? If they're not playing a game that at a broad level sits in the same competitive depth of Smash64? You think all the work poured into Smash64 yields a product that isn't able to be reproduced with Brawl because at some level Brawl doesn't foster the structures capable of a similar level of play? You think a group many times bigger than the Smash64 tourney group ever was, can put equal amounts of work into Brawl and not reach a meta-game that is anywhere close to Smash64's?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
She also nicknames Chester, a knight.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I didn't make hall of shame but you could go ahead and make one.
Mummy on thread name until tonight.
Should be something about Sakurai being a master troll. Speaking of which, I never did figure out what Pilotwings and Minecraft was all about, but I joined OT1 pretty late.
I understand how you feel.
"Here come a new Challenger!" (or whatever) were my most precious memories from Melee!
I didn't make hall of shame but you could go ahead and make one.
Mummy on thread name until tonight.
Oh, how do you make one? I never did it before.
Cannot wait to see the new name. =P
voltronbadA
Member
Totally agree with you Heath. I would rather have a slow drip feed of veterans coming back like we have had and keep new comers secret until release. It's more exciting when that "challenger approaching" screen pops up and you have no idea who it is!
Plus, with newegg posting the 3DS version had a May 16th release date we might not even have more secret characters revealed at E3 because it will be out before that
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Ahaha! Man, I never saw that. Oh, Miiverse.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Totally agree with you Heath. I would rather have a slow drip feed of veterans coming back like we have had and keep new comers secret until release. It's more exciting when that "challenger approaching" screen pops up and you have no idea who it is!
Plus, with newegg posting the 3DS version had a May 16th release date we might not even have more secret characters revealed at E3 because it will be out before that
Exactly. I really hope that we can embracing those kind of feeling AGAIN.
I thought you did, but someone else would do it more likely.
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS |OT3| Naruto Jumps into Action
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS |OT3| Sleep Deprivation Ahoy!
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS |OT3| Sakurai Too Busy Playing Pokemon to Update
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS |OT3| May 16th? Ha. Maybe 2015.
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS |OT3| Hoping the gameplay EVOlves
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS |OT3| We don't really do much of anything in this thread
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS |OT3| Sleep Deprivation Ahoy!
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS |OT3| Sakurai Too Busy Playing Pokemon to Update
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS |OT3| May 16th? Ha. Maybe 2015.
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS |OT3| Hoping the gameplay EVOlves
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS |OT3| We don't really do much of anything in this thread
Red Arremer
Member
This is probably the most accurate and best description.
I will when the next thread goes up
Cheers buddy.
Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS |OT3| Sakurai says "fuck you whiners"
i'm bad at this
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Man that's really messed up. My Melee community and Brawl community almost always share venues, and we are all friends at this point.
I can speak for my local scene (and I think most of the Melee community, honestly) when I say hatred for the game should never become hatred for players. Usually it doesn't, but I guess there are always special cases... and that sucks.
real talks brawl is ass but some of my best friends in the community are brawl players exclusively ^_^
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Just know you are in 3rd place
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS |OT3| Join us for our daily Ridley discussion.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Just know you are in 3rd place
Sadly I'm 4th place I think.