Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
It sounds like the X900E will turn out to be a pretty good value.
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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
It sounds like the X900E will turn out to be a pretty good value.
finalflame
Member
It's flat this year.
So to my next question, what's the point of the B7 this year? None of the OLED models have 3D and the C7 would basically be the cheapest of the 2017 lineup no?
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
eh it's not noticeable in content. My 65 is terrific with very few issues noticeable on patterns, and really none in content
Doesn't matter what the size is, they can all have uniformity issues.
But anyway, if you can't notice any issues during normal content then it's fine.
I sometimes wonder why people are so quick to pick a display apart with test fields. I'm sure I'd find something to not like, but by just using the display I cannot.
MrS
Banned
I think this is to do with LG bundling the sound bar which is valued at £250. Hopefully it'll go back down to £1750 after the deal ends, and potentially even less when the Sky Q offer ends too.
I've noticed they 900E lineup is already selling about 25% cheaper than the initial reveal price. Best Buy has the 49 & 55 for the same price right now. I'm interested in the 49, so I'm hoping it drops to around $1200
Best to identify an issue early and see if it's problematic or not than find it outside your 30-day return period.
holygeesus
Banned
You should identify issues by testing in a real-world environment, not using slides that aren't representative of what you will be watching 99% of the time. You will likely:
a) Go insane
b) Return every set you buy
As you will never get a set producing perfection on a 5% greyscale slide.
Unknown Soldier
Member
For what little it's worth now, plasma TVs generally had perfect uniformity on grayscale slides at all brightness levels. My old 65VT60 could and did do it. So did most CRT displays.
In many ways, CRT was almost the ideal display technology except for the fact that you couldn't make them very big before they started weighing 400 lbs. The technology was inherently not able to achieve miniaturization that way, so here we are today with various flavors of flat panel TVs that all have some kind of compromises.
holygeesus
Banned
I was specifically referring to the 2016 OLED range, but you are right. While all modern TV sets have compromises, they generally produce image quality, at their best, that blow away any CRT or plasma that come before, and I've owned the best of both over the years.
rockman zx
Member
I don't know if this is a stupid question or not, any 1080p TV in the market comes equipped with HDR or is exclusive to 4K TVs?.
I can't buy anything bigger than 32" because the space I have, any recommendation?.
I can't buy anything bigger than 32" because the space I have, any recommendation?.
I disagree, but it depends on your preferences. For me, motion resolution (with proper cadence - interpolation is trash) is the highest priority and phosphor based displays are untouchable in this regard. I install televisions (and major appliances) for a living and I'd take even a low end late model plasma over a modern OLED/LED-LCD any day.
All gray uniformity is not equal across panels. Not everyone has the same preference for viewing the same content either. It's something they have to live with. Not you. Just because you can ignore it, doesn't mean everybody else can (yes, I understand the people knowledgeable enough aren't too many). The issue isn't consistent across all panels, so who's to say how you should evaluate unless you do it yourself? If you never witnessed the dirty screen effect, then you're fortunate.
Sony's 2017 TVs all have HDR, I believe. Including their 1080p and 720p models. I haven't heard of any other manufacturers doing this though.
It doesn't actually have any impact on the perfect blacks.
Plus it's over exposed, a big harder to see in person.
Impossible to see in normal content. I only use the test slide to actually expose the flaw. I come from plasma which had near perfect uniformity, so it bothers me somewhat.
What is noticeable is the area on my screen that is tinted towards yellow in game mode when looking at white web pages. This only seems to effect 65s, but not all 65s.
It still is miles better than LED.
rockman zx
Member
Any of this TVs already released?.
holygeesus
Banned
Eh? I own the TV and did the grey slide test. You see things there you wouldn't in normal use, so what is the point? Watch fast moving sports and real material to judge whether you can live with a TV rather than a meaningless test image.
I think people have rose-tinted glasses about CRTs. I recall plenty of image quality issues with the technology. Lack of 1:1 pixel mapping (overscan, geometry distortion), moiré, and flicker are the biggest ones that come to mind. CRT was practically the definition of image quality tradeoffs, as you could tune parameters to do things like reduce moiré at the cost of losing sharpness.
Fakeknowledge
Member
So i got a Pro and i'm looking for a 4k HDR tv to go with it, i'm looking for something upto around £600, initially it was gonna be less but i've got a bit more money than expected this month.
I was gonna get the Samsung UE40KU6400, but now i can go a but pricier.
I've read good things about Samsung t.v's in general for gaming, and the Panasonic TX DX700B is supposed to be good.
Any suggestions around that price range?
I was gonna get the Samsung UE40KU6400, but now i can go a but pricier.
I've read good things about Samsung t.v's in general for gaming, and the Panasonic TX DX700B is supposed to be good.
Any suggestions around that price range?
Samsung 2016 KU line really does not have good HDR.
Sony 43XD8005 is still the best for entry model.
Fakeknowledge
Member
Omnistalgic
Member
What's that in the U.S? Sony 850? I'm looking for the best mid-range I can get too.
Does anyone have the Vizio M series? Cnet gave it a great rating and said it's one of the best bangs for your buck. Getting it mostly for gaming though.
Vizio M Series or Sony XD800
Differences in XD80xx models is just coloring of the bezel/stand metal and what's packed in the box [different remote & stuff]. XD8088 is pure black coloring I think.
No-one is saying that they were perfect, but motion on a CRT is still many times better than just about anything else, they have effectively zero latency, they have far better viewing angles than anything else, are far better at displaying low resolution pixel art, don't have to worry about "non-native" input resolutions, and have better black level and uniformity than most LCDs.
Flicker was not a detriment, it was an asset. That's why they had such good motion handling.
With LCD or OLED you have to introduce flickering to make any significant improvement to motion handling.
If they were still being manufactured today, I would absolutely buy a brand new CRT monitor if there was something built to the spec of a Sony FW900.
I've given up on buying used displays at this point though, because the last ones were manufactured 10-15 years ago now.
That's why I hope it's not too much longer before motion handling is something that manufacturers start trying to compete on again.
It looks like Philips may have finally started to do something about it with their OLED this year (though I suspect it refreshes at 120Hz and not 60Hz) and I'm hearing rumors that Sony are going to have a blur reduction mode as well.
crazepharmacist
Member
Just me or is the 49 inch and 55 inch X900E on best buy's site the same $1699 price. That should be the 49 inch price and the 55 should be going for 2399.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-55...h-dynamic-range-black/5748209.p?skuId=5748209
Pricing error or just my slow computer?
Fakeknowledge
Member
Oh right, i'll go with that one then. Thanks.
holygeesus
Banned
Motion handling is pretty much the only area that CRT has an advantage over an OLED IMO. Viewing angles are at least as good on an OLED. Both Philips and Sony are promising improvements in this area, so it's an exciting year ahead for the tech.
Omnistalgic
Member
yeah wasup witht that. I'm thinking the 49 in. Should be $1300 maybe?
Color on OLED changes quite noticeably with viewing angle while CRT is basically unchanged at any angle. They're not comparable. Plasma had better viewing angle than OLED too. (one of the few things it did well)
If Philips/Sony's blur reduction features refresh at 120Hz they may as well not exist.
I've been unable to get myself to scrap my Pioneer 5010. I think I can revive it by replacing the main assembly board, but it's like $900 from Pioneer directly. It seems to be a common failure, so I'm hesitant to pick up a used one.
Love the display but it's tough to throw down that kind of money for a TV from 2008 or whatever.
Love the display but it's tough to throw down that kind of money for a TV from 2008 or whatever.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Does anybody here that has the B6 OLED also have access to a PS4 Pro?
I'm having an issue after upgrading from the slim to the pro with Blu-ray playback.
It's not the end of the world because I can use my Xbox One to play Blu-rays but it's just kind of annoying that I can't use my PS4 for everything.
Whenever I play back a Blu-ray movie on the pro it looks funny. It almost looks like it's using the smoothing garbage that every vendor includes on their TV, but I can confirm that setting is not active.
Doesn't happen on the slim, or the Xbox one.
I'm having an issue after upgrading from the slim to the pro with Blu-ray playback.
It's not the end of the world because I can use my Xbox One to play Blu-rays but it's just kind of annoying that I can't use my PS4 for everything.
Whenever I play back a Blu-ray movie on the pro it looks funny. It almost looks like it's using the smoothing garbage that every vendor includes on their TV, but I can confirm that setting is not active.
Doesn't happen on the slim, or the Xbox one.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Definitely a pricing error.
NYR
Member
LG B7 is an exclusive to Costco per Robert Zohn, president of Value Electronics, authorized dealer for LG. See comments section in this story:
http://www.theverge.com/circuitbrea...v-w-series-thin-oled-price-announced-ces-2017
▼Robert Zohn
The B7 series is exclusive for club retailers, like Costco. One tip on the B7 is that LG is using the 2016 B6 frame so its a silver bezel frame. No specs, price or availability announced yet for the B7 series.
holygeesus
Banned
Well CRT still had a few other not-yet-mentioned issues, such as geometric distortion, lack of brightness compared to even an OLED, and I find the OLED offers a 'sharper' image too, and I've never owned a set with such spectacular colour reproduction. It's not a night and day difference between the two technologies in my opinion. I certainly wouldn't want the bulk of a 55" CRT in my front room either.
waited quite a long time before picking it up, will be quite a while before the 2017 models go down in price too.MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
I did a google search and couldn't find an answer to this. I was looking at OLED TVs yesterday and the salesman told me that OLED TVs don't have a refresh rate like normal TVs. He said each pixel refreshed individually according to their source. I immediately thought of something like like G-Sync or Freesync where the refresh rate is adaptive and I asked him how the refresh rate applies when gaming and the source can fluctuate. He didn't have an answer.
I'm really picky when it comes to displays and have found two major problems with newer TVs that go above a 60Hz refresh rate. One is that I don't like the way films or video in general display. I suspect the problem is that the newer TVs take away motion blur. The other is gaming lag. I played on a TV that supposedly had a 240Hz refresh rate and lag was so bad that gaming was impossible. The 2 OLED TVs I looked at were the first ones I've seen in a long time that didn't appear to have the motion blur missing. They were only showing a demo of HDR on them so I could be wrong about this, but I would appreciate any info anyone has on this.
I'm really picky when it comes to displays and have found two major problems with newer TVs that go above a 60Hz refresh rate. One is that I don't like the way films or video in general display. I suspect the problem is that the newer TVs take away motion blur. The other is gaming lag. I played on a TV that supposedly had a 240Hz refresh rate and lag was so bad that gaming was impossible. The 2 OLED TVs I looked at were the first ones I've seen in a long time that didn't appear to have the motion blur missing. They were only showing a demo of HDR on them so I could be wrong about this, but I would appreciate any info anyone has on this.
holygeesus
Banned
You aren't going to like OLED in my opinion. I'd certainly demo before buying. If you are sensitive to motion issues, the current sets won't be for you, though the 2017 models might be. Wait for reviews of them, then see one in person. I find gaming an absolute joy though, and have no problem with response time...though I don't game using a mouse so YMMV.
Didn't CRT have better motion handling because of the way the phosphors were lit by th scanning electron beam and decayed over time? If so, why isn't it possible to simulate that with OLED? Update the screen line by line and have the light decaying between refreshes..
MadOdorMachine - the LG x6 range aren't well known for great motion handling. But it might be worth waiting for impressions of the Sony OLEDs as their motion processing is excellent and hopefully that'll translate to their OLED sets.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
Interesting you brought up LG because that was the brand I was looking at, but I'm not sure which model. Maybe I'm not quite explaining my issue correctly though. I love the fluidity of the high refresh rates for gaming. What I don't like is the way film and TV shows appear on these newer displays. I think they are too smooth and after doing some research, I think its because the newer TVs reduce or remove motion blur. Most film is shot at 24fps with the intention of motion blur and your mind filling in the gaps between frames. These newer TVs take that away. The OLED TVs I was looking at was showing a demo for HDR in a loop and a lot of the scenes were static so I may be wrong, but from what I remember these were the only sets that seemed to show film/video without removing the blur.
As far as the lag goes, I was playing Tiger Woods on a PS3 and the lag was so bad the game was unplayable. I'm talking about a noticeable lag - nearly a second between the time you press a button and the action happens on screen.
Dominican Power
Member
Still using my Samsung LNS3251D. : (
I desperately need a new TV.
I desperately need a new TV.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Yes. CRT and plasma phosphors fundamentally have the same brightness degradation between refreshes which resets retinal persistence. That's why they have great native motion resolution.
Displays where pixels remain the same brightness until refresh fall prey to "sample-and-hold" motion blur. This is a well-understood problem on LCD and OLED panels.
It is possible to reset retinal persistence through things like backlight blinking and black-frame insertion. The gaming LCD monitors with LightBoost blink or scan the backlights, simulating CRT refresh. Some Sony TVs had it too with Impulse Mode. You could also blink the OLEDs on OLED TVs in much the same way.
Black-frame insertion is still commonly used on TVs but it doesn't work as well as backlight blinking. BFI can be used on both LCDs and OLED.
The problem with these techniques is they decrease overall brightness of the picture. This isn't exactly a big deal on LCD where you can already make the image brighter than looking directly at the Sun. But OLED already has limited brightness due to power use considerations and also burn-in. So if you reduce the overall brightness of the OLED picture too much it can't be reasonably viewed anymore, and if you are just blasting power into the OLED panel between refreshes you are asking for serious burn-in.