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[Joni]

Caught up, and saw a lot of posts going "what did he meant with "there was a complication"" when the last episode was airing.

My take is that the complication is not

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the fact that Zoom killed Jay, but that Team Flash closed all the breaches. Zoom has no Flash nor Wells now.

If he was talking about the breaches, he could have just jumped through the last one and be stuck on the Earth with all the speedsters.

So why is there a month long break? D:

Politics.

I've just watched the episode enter zoom again and I'm wondering if Wells is a speedster? I know this sounds ridiculous but didn't they say only speedsters could travel through breaches? In this episode when Cisco vibes wells zoom says to Jessy "I know Wells went to the other earth. Why?" Meaning hes gone on his own.And if you remember Wells turns up to earth one by himself. So I'm just slightly confused as to why Barry had to take Wells and Cisco through the breaches.either it's a continuity error, zoom took Wells to earth 1(which makes that convo with Jessy irrelevant) or Wells is not telling us something.thoughts?

Jay managed to get through as well without powers. And they seemed to have no problem getting back from Earth-2. Either there is something different between the two sides, making a speed cannon necessary on one side; or Barry's speedforce being there is impacting them.

 

[Kyoufu]

I've just watched the episode enter zoom again and I'm wondering if Wells is a speedster? I know this sounds ridiculous but didn't they say only speedsters could travel through breaches? In this episode when Cisco vibes wells zoom says to Jessy "I know Wells went to the other earth. Why?" Meaning hes gone on his own.And if you remember Wells turns up to earth one by himself. So I'm just slightly confused as to why Barry had to take Wells and Cisco through the breaches.either it's a continuity error, zoom took Wells to earth 1(which makes that convo with Jessy irrelevant) or Wells is not telling us something.thoughts?

Plothole or when Jay said "He may not be the Wells you know but he has just as many secrets" could mean something.

Wells obviously didn't create the particle accelerator to still be a regular human. Of course he's a metahuman.

 

[WarRock]

If he was talking about the breaches, he could have just jumped through the last one and be stuck on the Earth with all the speedsters.

We don't know his long term plan and maybe he didn't know the breach was closing when he pulled Jay?

Dunno, it doesn't make sense to me. If it was a complication to kill Jay, why he did it?

 

[Joni]

We don't know his long term plan and maybe he didn't know the breach was closing when he pulled Jay?

Dunno, it doesn't make sense to me. If it was a complication to kill Jay, why he did it?

That Jay existing might be the complication, something completely unexpected to him. Did we see Zoom and Jay together before this episode aside from the fight Jay describes?

 

[Xemnas89]

We don't know his long term plan and maybe he didn't know the breach was closing when he pulled Jay?

Dunno, it doesn't make sense to me. If it was a complication to kill Jay, why he did it?

Maybe Jay was a speed clone and instead of going into a coma when zoom killed him he just absorbed his memories and experiences instead. Maybe he absorbed the feelings for Caitlin, or maybe he thinks the velocity-9 is a complication. Whatever the case may be we have close to a month to wait so yay for speculation!

 

[Lockman_321]

Jay managed to get through as well without powers. And they seemed to have no problem getting back from Earth-2. Either there is something different between the two sides, making a speed cannon necessary on one side; or Barry's speedforce being there is impacting them.

But they didn't. They had to go through with barry.Wells had to stay back to wait for Barry to come get him leading to him getting caught by zoom. If this is not a plot hole then it could mean somethings up with Wells that we don know about

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and on jay. It could lead to meaning that jay never actually traveled through as jay is in the mask and that guy is HZ from earth 1 who has been working with HZ from earth 2(zoom).he was zooms inside man into the team and the was there with the purpose of creating velocity.The real jay Garrick is in the mask and never got to earth two as he got captured. That's what could be the complication. That zoom killed his inside man.

I degreas but going by himself and zoom even saying to Jessy why has Wells gone to earth 2 is either a continuity error or a massive hint

 

[Joni]

But they didn't. They had to go through with barry.Wells had to stay back to wait for Barry to come get him leading to him getting caught by zoom. If this is not a plot hole then it could mean somethings up with Wells that we don know about

True, I missed that. Well, there are still ways to explain it away. Like it has become more unstable or it was just one person. Or he did have a speed cannon on his side. And oh well, he was capable of making something like Velocity-6.

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and on jay. It could lead to meaning that jay never actually traveled through as jay is in the mask and that guy is HZ from earth 1 who has been working with HZ from earth 2(zoom).he was zooms inside man into the team and the was there with the purpose of creating velocity.The real jay Garrick is in the mask and never got to earth two as he got captured. That's what could be the complication. That zoom killed his inside man.

I degreas but going by himself and zoom even saying to Jessy why has Wells gone to earth 2 is either a continuity error or a massive hint

No need to spoiler tag speculation by the way. For now, I'm in the camp that Hunter Zolomon is just a regular guy and that all trickery is contained to Earth-2.

 

[Lockman_321]

True, I missed that. Well, there are still ways to explain it away. Like it has become more unstable or it was just one person. Or he did have a speed cannon on his side. And oh well, he was capable of making something like Velocity-6.


No need to spoiler tag speculation by the way. For now, I'm in the camp that Hunter Zolomon is just a regular guy and that all trickery is contained to Earth-2.

Ahh Ok. What if they guy on the bench was zoom and the guy in the team is his earth 1 doppelganger. Jay Garrick could look like someone completely different. We are just going by his story. Usually I don't think too much into shows but this reveal and a month break has done my head in! Lol

 

[Kyoufu]

Jay managed to get through as well without powers. And they seemed to have no problem getting back from Earth-2. Either there is something different between the two sides, making a speed cannon necessary on one side; or Barry's speedforce being there is impacting them.

You really don't know that. Zoom could have brought him here. Or he could have used Velocity-6.

Basically don't take his story as fact since Kreisberg already confirmed that some of it was not true.

Also how would Jay survive a fall from the sky without his powers? Dude lied to everyone using CG stories and everyone ate it up as fact! MASTERFULLY PLAYED!

 

[Lockman_321]

You really don't know that. Zoom could have brought him here. Or he could have used Velocity-6.

Basically don't take his story as fact since Kreisberg already confirmed that some of it was not true.

Also how would Jay survive a fall from the sky without his powers? Dude lied to everyone using CG stories and everyone ate it up as fact! MASTERFULLY PLAYED!

This!

The fact zoom never actually stole his speed makes me think more and more he is hunter zolomon from earth 1 working with earth 2 hunter zolomon (zoom) to get speed. Zoom tells him what to tell the team about his fight actual fight with with jay Garrick. Its all true up to the point where he says "the breach pulled me in". What actually happens is zoom captures jay Garrick and puts him in the mask.just a thought!

 

[WarRock]

That Jay existing might be the complication, something completely unexpected to him. Did we see Zoom and Jay together before this episode aside from the fight Jay describes?

Wells and the entire Earth-2 Central City acknowledge that Jay kept failing to defeat Zoom in some flashbacks early this season.

 

[Kyoufu]

Zoom knows that "Jay" exists, because channel 52 news reported him arriving late at the scene where Zoom kidnapped Jessie.

I'm almost certain they were working together and that he wasn't meant to kill him.

One thing to note is that the man in the mask (real Jay?) panics when he sees dead Jay's body. That must mean something. Perhaps they were twins?

 

[WarRock]

He goes in a frenzy when Barry says that Jay is alive too, so who knows at this point.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Everyone is Jay

 

[Johndoey]

Flash Team Jay and Zoom are both Speed Clones of Masked Jay. Something went wrong with Zoom and he was born of Negative Speed Force.

Both want to continue their progenitors goal of enhancing their Speedforce connection, FT Jay with Velocity and Zoom by sapping other speedsters.

 

[Jarmel]

Not really feeling this if it turns out to be Speed Scouts.

 

[Kyoufu]

You know what, I don't think Velocity-6's side-effect created Zoom. Wells created the Velocity formula only because Jay needed more speed to catch Zoom.

Therefore Zoom existed before the Velocity formula.

 

[adelante]

Zoom knows that "Jay" exists, because channel 52 news reported him arriving late at the scene where Zoom kidnapped Jessie.

I'm almost certain they were working together and that he wasn't meant to kill him.

One thing to note is that the man in the mask (real Jay?) panics when he sees dead Jay's body. That must mean something. Perhaps they were twins?

Yep, I think they're Earth2 twins too. Maybe one was born with speed (Hunter) and one without, having to rely on Velocity6 (Garrick). They got Earth 1's Garrick captured and put in a cage, whereas Earth 1's Hunter is that harmless dude, chilling in some park.

 

[Luigi87]

You know what, I don't think Velocity-6's side-effect created Zoom. Wells created the Velocity formula only because Jay needed more speed to catch Zoom.

Therefore Zoom existed before the Velocity formula.

I thought Jay created it himself on Earth-2.

 

[Frank the Great]

It will be really fucking stupid if there are "Speed Clones" involved. Geez.

I think the simplest and most likely answer is that either Jay and Hunter are twins on both earths, or there are additional earths involved here.

I remember everyone getting real creative with Reverse Flash theories, when in retrospect the most obvious candidate was RF.

 

[Jest Chillin]

It will be really fucking stupid if there are "Speed Clones" involved. Geez.

I think the simplest answer is that either Jay and Hunter are twins on both earths, or there are additional earths involved here.

Additional Earths would be best. It could explain future crossover events.

 

[Johndoey]

It will be really fucking stupid if there are "Speed Clones" involved. Geez.

I think the simplest and most likely answer is that either Jay and Hunter are twins on both earths, or there are additional earths involved here.

I remember everyone getting real creative with Reverse Flash theories, when in retrospect the most obvious candidate was RF.

Speed Clones is way dumber and more interesting tho.

 

[Magwik]

I think speed clones being the byproduct of Velocity 6 abuse could be used well enough as commentary on Barry using it to get faster to defeat Zoom, and present an overall lesson. Earth-2 is supposed to be about parallels, so showing Barry what could happen if he becomes obsessed with speed and getting faster could be interesting to explore.

 

[Joni]

Wells and the entire Earth-2 Central City acknowledge that Jay kept failing to defeat Zoom in some flashbacks early this season.

I mean the Jay we know, assuming the real one is the masked guy. I don't think those two ever met on the first Earth.

 

[Klyka]

"Barry, there is a speed where you become so fast that your speed clones become their own people. That's how fast you can run."

I would love so hard.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

You know Jay Garrick we really are the last Jay Garrick.

 

[Discotheque]

I think speed clones being the byproduct of Velocity 6 abuse could be used well enough as commentary on Barry using it to get faster to defeat Zoom, and present an overall lesson. Earth-2 is supposed to be about parallels, so showing Barry what could happen if he becomes obsessed with speed and getting faster could be interesting to explore.

I was thinking drug addict angle like days of future past, and joe and iris stage a velocity 7 (or whatever num they're on) intervention on him haha. "I GOTTA go fast"

but this idea sounds good too.

 

[Glass Rebel]

You know Jay Garrick we really are the last Jake Eric.

.

 

[Kyoufu]

I thought Jay created it himself on Earth-2.

Nope, Wells created it for Jay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhPZtPN2cOw

 

[Rad-]

Man I really wish King Shark would have went "I'm a motherfucking shark" when he opened that roof.

 

[Chariot]

They need to make an ad that resembles Eminem's Real Slim Shady music video.

Will the real Jay Garrick please stand up, please stand up

 

[Joni]

Nope, Wells created it for Jay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhPZtPN2cOw

He failed five times, which makes Jay's reveal that he took a working version strange. Either Wells formula caused the loss of speed, which makes it weird that he was willing to take it again, or he made his own Velocity-6 afterwards and then hidden it. But yet he was still willing to take Wells Velocity-6. Well, for it to make sense, that has to have happened. It gives me the feeling that somewhere they changed their plans for Zoom and Jay which causes some minor plotholes.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I mean the Jay we know, assuming the real one is the masked guy. I don't think those two ever met on the first Earth.

Forget it Joni, it's Speed Force!

 

[Joni]

Forget it Joni, it's Speed Force!

 

[Johndoey]

I want to see Tony Todd shout "fuck yoou dad!" as Zoom shrugs on his leather jacket and goes to a sock hop with his best girl.

Masked Jay shakes his head sadly and mashes a cup of coffee on his face hole.

 

[Slayven]

Masked Jay is Walter West

 

[WedgeX]

Masked Jay is Walter West

Why use a different actor for Wally than Walter?

 

[Kyoufu]

Zoom knew exactly when Wells left Earth-2 and he knew exactly when Wells returned to Earth-2 (he even knew Wells wasn't alone).

Junkie Jay and Zoom were definitely in contact with each other either spiritually or the regular old-fashioned way.

Zoom also prevented Masked Jay from telling Barry anything more with tap codes. He didn't want them finding out that Junkie Jay is a fake.

 

[Joni]

Zoom knew exactly when Wells left Earth-2 and he knew exactly when Wells returned to Earth-2 (he even knew Wells wasn't alone).

Junkie Jay and Zoom were definitely in contact with each other either spiritually or the regular old-fashioned way.

Zoom also prevented Masked Jay from telling Barry anything more with tap codes. He didn't want them finding out that Junkie Jay is a fake.

Reverb alerted Zoom on this. But there is no way he can actually communicate across Earths.

 

[Slayven]

Why use a different actor for Wally than Walter?

Because of The Bleed

 

[Kyoufu]

Reverb alerted Zoom on this.

Good point.

Theory in crisis.

But Zoom still prevented Masked Jay from talking more, so there has to be some involvement with Junkie Jay, otherwise he wouldn't care.

 

[Joni]

Good point.

Theory in crisis.

But Zoom still prevented Masked Jay from talking more, so there has to be some involvement with Junkie Jay, otherwise he wouldn't care.

Well, he might just want to prevent Masked Jay from saying that Zoom is Jay/Hunter. Masked Jay might be assuming Zoom has tricked Barry. So many possibilities.

 

[shingi70]

If Jay is Zoom then how does the flashback with Jay and Wells talking about Zoom in front of the press work.

 

[Kyoufu]

Well, he might just want to prevent Masked Jay from saying that Zoom is Jay/Hunter. Masked Jay might be assuming Zoom has tricked Barry. So many possibilities.

Another good point and certainly possible.

Maybe Masked Jay panicked when he realised there's a third Jay, dead in front of Zoom.

Is it March 22 yet? I can't take this. All this speculation is going to turn me into another version of Jay.

If Jay is Zoom then how does the flashback with Jay and Wells talking about Zoom in front of the press work.

That scene was likely the real Jay Garrick, two months before he was captured by Zoom, or Zoom could have captured the real Jay much sooner than that and the one in the flashback with Wells was Junkie Jay, but given how the real Jay Garrick's helmet went through the wormhole I'm going with the former theory.

 

[Calm waterfall]

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I can´t wait for a female speedster.

 

[strafer]

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I can´t wait for a female speedster.

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The Flashette?

 

[Joni]

Spoiler

The Flashette?

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Trajectory

 

[Angelus Errare]

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The Flashette?

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Flashlite! (Her name is actually Trajectory as the poster above me mentioned)

 

[Johndoey]

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I can´t wait for a female speedster.

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I'm dreading the dumb crush Barry is probably going to have on her

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Also her chances of survival are like 50/50

 

[Kyoufu]

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I'm dreading the dumb crush Barry is probably going to have on her

Oh god.

Please no more Barry love angles. I don't think I could take any more of his dumb ass in those situations.