Absolutely gorgeous.Doug Chiang is a great concept artist and especially in PM got a lot of good designs in there. ILM has always had a Moebius influence, but for this time around they really went wild. For instance, Gungan stuff had a better sense of alt-tech than, say, Ewoks.
Glad he's still around for the new stuff.
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The Greatness of the Star Wars Prequels
- Thread starter Garlador
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Sectorseven
Member
When I was a kid I read that Lucas had originally envisioned 12 episodes, later cut down to nine, and always assumed that last set would come sometime after the prequels. It wasn't until maybe 2008 that I gave up on the new films, when Lucas started talking about how ROJ was the end of the story, not to mention the original cast was starting to get up there in years.
All of them?
https://youtu.be/ORWPCCzSgu0?list=PL5919C8DE6F720A2D&t=359
Mr Plinkett's (Red Letter Media's) Star Wars reviews are so spot on, specifically the critique of the light saber fights contrasted to the emotional content of the original movies. It shows how vapid, empty, meaningless the prequel fights are. No matter how much more flashy the fights were in the prequels, they lack any emotional impact.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Hey, we're all welcome to have our own opinions, no matter how laughably bad they are!
LegendofLex
Member
The moment we realized that parentage had anything to do with Force sensitivity (i.e. literally the first time we're told about the Force in the movies) was the minute a non-biological explanation went out the window.
Maybe it was my teenage self but I loved the battles. I think the large scale battles really made it to be Star WARS. Emphasis on the word "Wars". It made me feel there really was a large scale galactic war happening on multiple planets. We got to see so much more of Lucas' universe thanks to the prequels and regardless of whether you cry CGI we got to see these worlds thanks to CGI. Bespin was CGI too. And yes I saw the OT first, hell I rewatched all of them before each movie. I like them both but I like the battles of two large armies in the galaxy rather than the empire vs a rag tag band of rebels. Sorry for the gifs
Fuck yes.
This. The CG in the prequels is flawed, but it served its purpose as a tool to present Lucas's vision of the Star Wars universe. I love the scale and scope of these sequences.
Me too! The whole theater was cheering during this scene.
You know, the funny thing about prequel haters is that they always rant about the "flashy lightsaber duels with backflips and jumps" and that they are "too fast instead of the amazing slowness of the OT trilogy".
And those are the same people who jack off to the Clone Wars CGI cartoon.
You know... Just like the OT!
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I'm convinced that anyone who hates the Yoda saber fight is just trying to find things to hate for the sake of hating them because they're PT.
Likewise to all of you!
Likewise to all of you!
The Headcanon is strong with them. That scene was great. My jaw was on the floor and I had goosebumps during the whole scene. The very instant Yoda enters the room I knew shit was about to get real.
I like you.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
He's supposedly one of the best to ever do it, and this scene definitely demonstrates that. I would expect nothing less from Yoda.
And besides, it's not like he just used his lightsaber. The first part of the fight was just by using the Force. Hell, he deflected and absorbed Force Lightning without much effort.
That's because they actually have good stories and characters to back them up and give them impact. So yeah... just like the OT.Me too! The whole theater was cheering during this scene.
You know, the funny thing about prequel haters is that they always rant about the "flashy lightsaber duels with backflips and jumps" and that they are "too fast instead of the amazing slowness of the OT trilogy".
And those are the same people who jack off to the Clone Wars CGI cartoon.
You know... Just like the OT!
This just shows that you truly have no idea what you're even arguing against. No one cares about how slow and fast any of it is. I don't think there's a single post in this thread or the other few that have popped up recently.
Yeah sure, whatever you say. What I say is the usual bitching.
And about the bolded. I lol'd.
So you don't like Clone Wars? Huh...
i'm convinced that anyone who doesn't believe someone else's personal reasons for liking or disliking things is kind of a jerk
I like Clone Wars (With the exception of Ahsoka....).
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
All of them?
I don't know why this scene gets mocked so much, the later parts of this duel cross into the realm of unnecessarily over the top, but this was during the meatiest part of the duel. It's a 1 second part where after they are each trading blows and clashing perfectly they clearly try to both surprise the other but also end up clashing.
It was to show how evenly matched they were.
If people wanted to make fun of a scene in that duel that deserves to be made fun of it should be the part where they are swinging from cables wildly slashing at each other pointlessly.
It's the fact that if you watch the phantom menace and the clone wars, the duels feel way too rehearsed and very unnatural, there is no emotion behind them, they're over produced and super robotic. It isn't the flashy jump stuff that should be under criticism, it's the fact that they don't feel tense or exciting to watch. The duels in episode 3 are a bit better in that regard, the early parts of vader vs obiwan's duel before they get into the whole lava thing are flashy sure, but they are shot and directed better so they really feel like two guys giving it their all.
What was lol worthy then? I mean I presented what the argument actually and you completely ignored it so you could keep pulling out excuses like there's some kind of conspiracy for prequel bashing.
Never said there was any "conspiracy".
I just said that the Clone Wars cartoon feels NOTHING like the OT.
I agree with this. But it seems people believe they are incredibly funny by taking a scene that lasts for about one second and a half, making a looping GIF out of it and presenting it as something that ruined the franchise.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Why? People lie all the time.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Why would people lie about something so stupid, though? And why would that be the go-to for someone in response to discovering someone doesn't like a movie you like?
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Because it's Star Wars
Also, I wasn't 100% steadfast serious about what I said. I was just saying it's an awesome scene basically.
Maybe I read the first post I responded to wrong, but it sure sounded like you were saying people were hypocrites for liking CW fights over PT fights and that they like OT fights cause of "slowness" or whatever. I pointed out a common element between the OT and CW to argue against both of those things, but perhaps I misunderstood?
assuming that everyone is lying about this isn't conducive to good conversation
On the other hand, this is my absolute favorite part of the duel because it is the essence of swashbuckling.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
No it's not. I can believe what I want outside of conversation. I can have a discussion about the scene separate from those feelings. Which is something I frequently do.
Like I mention above though, I wasn't serious about it. I didn't think people would take me literally because it seems slightly absurd that no one has ever disliked the Yoda scene for legitimate reasons.
DarkJediKnight
Member
Yea. It seems he tried to cram everything into the last 5 min.
Yoda saying: "failed I have, to exile I must go" is so unbelievably out of character for him. The yoda we've been made to believe would try to gather the rest of the Jedis and try to save the rest of the Jedi order - not go into hiding and let all remaining Jedis be killed.
Now, if they explained that he foresaw the future and that a young jedi will restore balance 20 years from now, even if it means the death of the Jedis, then maybe it would make sense - because it's the same speech he gave to Luke before he left Dagobah to save Leia and Han. That's the sacrifice Yoda had to make.
But Lucas, completely without a writer to tell him his story was crap would not have seen that angle.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
One thing I very clearly recall is arguing with you about Palpatine appearing in the new trilogy either as a force ghost, as a clone, or as some other construction that ultimately accomplishes the same thing. At the time it seemed like the worst possible idea to me, but in hindsight I was too emotionally invested in my own interpretation of the saga, which is why I brought it up in this thread to say I'd eat any crow you wish to serve if it ends up happening.
I'm not really strongly against the idea anymore but I do think these kinds of bets are fun.
Another, entirely unrelated occasion I recall, is when you made a short film titled "M is for Mario" which I really enjoyed and shared on facebook
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
to criticize the cartoon to defend the prequel universe is like cutting your own legs before the 100m race.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
true. The bigger issue I was discussing with Ushojax was "even if it follows logically from the OT, why spell it out in the prequels? What purpose does it serve to go into those details?"
Gah Fate of the Jedi has so much stupid crap in it.
Count Dookkake
Member
One thing I very clearly recall is arguing with you about Palpatine appearing in the new trilogy either as a force ghost, as a clone, or as some other construction that ultimately accomplishes the same thing. At the time it seemed like the worst possible idea to me, but in hindsight I was too emotionally invested in my own interpretation of the saga, which is why I brought it up in this thread to say I'd eat any crow you wish to serve if it ends up happening.
I'm not really strongly against the idea anymore but I do think these kinds of bets are fun.
Another, entirely unrelated occasion I recall, is when you made a short film titled "M is for Mario" which I really enjoyed and shared on facebook
We are bros now.
Ok no. Sorry but no. I am the biggest Clone Wars/Prequel/OT fanboy there is but If you truly believe ANYONE was emotionally invested in Savage Opress then you're out of it.
Savage was just a brute killing characterd left and right because crazy. Pretty much a non character. Just a plot device to get to Maul
Then Sidious randomly shows up and shit goes down because reasons.
That fight stands entirely on rule of cool. And we love it that way.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
This fight had a lot of good elements in it. this gif is not really a fair representation of the entirety of it.
Also, putting the original as some emotional rollercoaster- is exaggerated greatly. the choreography was nothing amazing. nostalgia blinds you from the parts of that which was objectively shitty.
I think there was a lot of really cool elements with the lightsaber battles in the prequels.
Maul vs Obi and Qui-Gon Jinn, for all that films problem still enlisted in a really great fight that had interesting movement, choreography, music and composition. the way the camera tracks was also the highlight of the film. Arguable the only point in the entire film were you had a real sense of space and the actors running through it.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Problem with all the prequel fights, beyond the Plinket review points about the character conflict, is almost never are the combatants fighting to hit each other, they're fighting to hit their marks. With the OT fights, especially in Empire and Jedi, you felt the fights were two guys trying to harm each other. The prequels feel exactly the opposite. They're fighting like they're afraid to hurt each other, because that's not what the dance coach told them to do.
Gunslinger
Member
Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson were the best parts of prequel trilogy. BUT I don't blame the actors as script was just bad. I mean come on GL succeed in making Natalie Portman look like a bad actress.
Dragon1893
Member
I think it's unfair to lump episode 3 together with the other two.
Regardless, it still blows my mind how one of the biggest, most iconic franchises in the history of cinema spawned such terrible movies.
I mean, how did that happen? How did those scripts get approved? How was such terrible acting deemed acceptable? Was the person in charge of casting drunk?
It failed so hard on so many levels that it almost feels like it was on purpose because I can't wrap my head around such a monumental fuck up actually happening.
With the new movie looking so promissing it hurts even more.
They should make new ones so we can pretend those abominations never happened.
They really drag the experience of watching the saga down.
Regardless, it still blows my mind how one of the biggest, most iconic franchises in the history of cinema spawned such terrible movies.
I mean, how did that happen? How did those scripts get approved? How was such terrible acting deemed acceptable? Was the person in charge of casting drunk?
It failed so hard on so many levels that it almost feels like it was on purpose because I can't wrap my head around such a monumental fuck up actually happening.
With the new movie looking so promissing it hurts even more.
They should make new ones so we can pretend those abominations never happened.
They really drag the experience of watching the saga down.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
George Lucas had been retired for decades, and rode on the success as the creator of Star Wars, but remember- He didn't direct ESB or ROTJ. There is also some who say that he got massive help for the first film and that the 1AD did a lot of the directive. I don't know if that is true.
But what happens is that George Lucas become known as one of the most legendary directors. Yes, American Grafitti and HTX gave him credit, but he did not have the legacy that of his ULCA colleagues had. George Lucas empire grows with the franchise. He was very smart by not giving all the toy endorsement away.
So when Star Wars returned, he was in a position of being able to do completely, fucking what he wanted, in a field he had not engaged in since 83. Nobody could say things to him. No executive producers who come in worried and demands all these press screenings. You're surrounded by "yes, people".
IMO that was the difference between peter jackson doing the LOTR and the Hobbit. People were pissed when he got LOTR. People said he would fail, he was abysmal, he could do nothing but special effects, he would crack under such a large production, only spielberg or cameron could handle such a big production.
And that questioning, that doubt, that desire to prove himself must have done a hell of a lot for LOTR to be as amazing as it was.
For the Hobbit its the opposite. nobody says anything. sure, dailies are shit and production is chaos, but its peter- he knows what he is doing! we're not gonna doubt the guy who made one of the biggest miracles of cinema.
So in my mind- This is all just the failures of not having coworkers around you who dare tell you when you're stuff is shit. When you only hang around "yes, your awesome" type people, you yourself begin to change, and your entitlements and your own picture of your self changes. And a lot of the time, what emerges on the other side, has a unrealistic unhinged attitude towards one own work.
That is basically what I think happened.
George Lucas needed a big dedicated bright team of writers. But it was his baby. He had these darlings that needed to be slayed. He needed someone else to tell him what star wars meant to the public. I promise you that something like midiclorians would have gotten slayed in the writers meeting on day 2 or 3. There was nothing- Absolutely nothing sound about that choice.
Lastly, timing. All late 90s movies completely (save the matrix) underestimated the value of CGI. Had the prequels been released in 2015, and had another franchise taken star wars place to show the problems of a 90% CGI fest, I don't think Lucas would have made that mistake. But then again. Gollum in TTT was the best realization of a CGI character, and Jackson and friends completely forgot the lessons learned with the hobbit.
I feel that the Hobbit trilogy is a much large offense. It's a much worse realization. You can see what George Lucas went for. He failed on a lot of that execution, but the Hobbit is just small. It has nothing to say. It's like Robin Hood. It's completely formless.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
I'm gonna tell you, I really loved this when I saw the movie.
I assumed that was just an example gif that I wasn't responding to directly.
And tbf like I said, that storyline was engaging even if the characters weren't. They devoted some good screen time to those guys before all that happened. Why do you think people were so hungry to find out what happened next?
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Lmao at liking the Yoda fight.
Sure 8 year old me thought it was cool. But the older you are the worse it gets.
Sure 8 year old me thought it was cool. But the older you are the worse it gets.
Whenever I think of the positive aspects of Anakin, I always think of his TCW self now. His voice in that show has much more vocal and emotional range than Hayden ever could in the movies. I almost wish Matt Lanter could redub all of Hayden's lines in the prequels.
Dragon1893
Member
Interesting.
Also reminds me that I still haven't seen any of the Hobbit movies.
in your opinion
No Mace Windu/Sheev scene? It's easily the most thrilling and tragic scene of the whole series in my book.
Yeah, can't really take people blindly hating the prequels seriously because of all those reasons and more. Partially enjoyed them more than the original movies and think they're also way more complex. To be fair I must say that I never watched them without dub so that's probably why I never noticed any offensively bad acting.
I hated the Yoda Lightsaber duels as I watched them, on-screen, at the opening night of Attack of the Clones. They are utterly dreadful. They completely undermine the entire point and character of Yoda from the original trilogy, the CGI is bad on them (even for the time), and they turned Yoda into a hyperactive Pokemon.
I've never watched Clone Wars so can't comment on that, but I absolutely think the Yoda fights are one of the worse part of the prequels. They look freaking ridiculous. They take the flaw in all of the prequels fights, where the fights look weightless and too choreographed, and amp that up a thousand. The final fight in Phantom was the best of a bad bunch, but all of them look bad compared to the raw slog we saw in Empire, or even the throne room fight in Return of the Jedi.
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