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The Greatness of the Star Wars Prequels
- Thread starter Garlador
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I know the prequels are disliked (for good reason), but George Lucas was making heinous changes to the OT films LONG before the prequels hit.
You should pay attention next time. If anything, Sir Kenobi is showing desperation as an old man in the face of his better foe. The fight is choreographed as if two men are holding sticks made of death.
There's literally no drama here, its all spectacle. How are we supposed to believe they have death swords if they didn't even treat them like such. The original trilogy, and specifically ANH treat them like swords, almost always up and in front of them. Never giving up the back unless it's to escape. The prequels are choreographed like the lightsabers are their videogame counterparts, with no thought for how Jedi's would respect another's sword, and more about cool flourishes and finishes.
Don't fuck with Yoda.
I paid attention every time I watched, thank you very much. And the scene is just as boring as ever.
And about the second part of your post, that's exactly one of the main reasons I liked the PT. The fact that it had its own style and feel, and wasn't a complete retread of the OT.
About the "no drama" thing, speak of yourself. I see plenty of drama there. Besides, this is a series about space magicians using laser swords, so I think it fits.
This is a terrible fallacy that doesn't even take into account the first in the same series already proves it can be done better.
Sure, whatever floats your boat I guess. ¯\(°_o)/¯
I like all 6 Star Wars films, that's all I can say.
It must be terrible to be a fan of a series of movies and only liking half of them. Thank goodness I'm not like that.
This is any franchise, just ask Trek fans. You don't have to slovenly like the shit they make, especially when the person making the shit only partially influenced the reason you liked the series in the first place.
I loved that. It shows that he isn't as infallible, perfect or wise as I believed.
That's fine. I just think it must be terrible and makes me glad I'm not like that.
Ewww
They're bits of pop culture. If your well being really hinges on your liking everything Lucas made, you have more to worry about than some random person on the internet calling you out for your bad taste.
To me, it doesn't matter if it's well-choreographed or not so long as the drama BEHIND it is interesting.
...
But, yeah, this is awesome. The shots aren't "stylish". They're going for the body, not the space in FRONT of the body. The prequels look like they're trying to attack the opponent's lightsaber instead of their opponent (which is how it was actually choreographed).
But, while the prequel fights are pretty silly, some of them DO have great moments.
If he won, there wouldn't be an OT...
It aint so bad. I'm a bigger Trek fan and I'm quite content acknowledging half the entries are weaker than the rest
I'm not sure "awesome" is the way to describe this line.
There's a reason Alec Guinness was so embarrassed by Star Wars and called it "fairytale rubbish".
But we were more accepting of a few dumb lines because the rest of the movie was so fun and well-executed.
I liked your post, OP.
I still like watching the prequels. They're such a fascinating mess. But in terms of actual good stuff...
The Darth Maul fight
The podrace
The shots of Palpatine looking over the clones at the end of Ep 2
Anakin marching on the Jedi temple
Think that's about it.
But I'll never get bored of the great dialogue and utter shitness - 'I don't like sand', 'only a Sith deals in absolutes', commander Cody, 'unlimited powaaaaaaaaaa!", "oh Anakin, I'm so weak!", "I don't think she liked me watching her"... I could go on. Such hilarious films.
I still like watching the prequels. They're such a fascinating mess. But in terms of actual good stuff...
The Darth Maul fight
The podrace
The shots of Palpatine looking over the clones at the end of Ep 2
Anakin marching on the Jedi temple
Think that's about it.
But I'll never get bored of the great dialogue and utter shitness - 'I don't like sand', 'only a Sith deals in absolutes', commander Cody, 'unlimited powaaaaaaaaaa!", "oh Anakin, I'm so weak!", "I don't think she liked me watching her"... I could go on. Such hilarious films.
Which is why it makes sense that Yoda never picks up a lightsaber. Especially since he doesn't later. Its one of the few things that doesn't rhyme, where Lucas creates a character that blew up despite him and he has no idea how to gracefully give them a backstory. Look at R2, with his fucking rockets and shit. Just imagine if Jar Jar came out now. george would be the king of memes.
It'd be like me forcing myself to listen to anything from Metallica after Master of Puppets. Why?
Spiritreaver
Member
I like how right before this shot there's a little droid that appears and completely fucks up the tension of the scene. Why is it even there? lol
I like this duel up until that point.
https://youtu.be/_xP3fI7yn5s?t=237
Lol, forgot Justice came after Master as it feels so weak comparatively. Justice is Metallica's peak.
I always found it... odd... how Yoda is over 900 years old and still engaged in frontline warfare in the prequels, but fast-forward 20 years and he's an invalid who expires from old age shortly after Luke bumps into him.
I guess Yoda's race can age to 900 years old... and then they rapidly expire or something.
Though if Yoda can do THIS:
Why does he need a cane?
Dude can do quadruple backflips without throwing out a hip, yet acts like walking across the room will wind him.
It's probably a hack attempt at mirroring Sheev, but even in that sense it would mean yoda doesn't use a lightsaber. It's just a terribly handled subject.I always found it... odd... how Yoda is over 900 years old and still engaged in frontline warfare in the prequels, but fast-forward 20 years and he's an invalid who expires from old age shortly after Luke bumps into him.
I guess Yoda's race can age to 900 years old... and then they rapidly expire or something.
Though if Yoda can do THIS:
Why does he need a cane?
Dude can do quadruple backflips without throwing out a hip, yet acts like walking across the room will wind him.
OP, the prequels are seriously three of the worst written, worst acted, and worst directed movies of all time. They are legitimately awful and only served to ruin the OT because basically he could do that. They were like a giant "fuck you" to the fans of the OT. They ruined almost every single character from the OT. How anyone can find these movies watchable is beyond me. I guess maybe if you never saw the OT until after the prequels you might be confused, but that's a stretch. They are three movies that are a vapid, empty wasteland of green screen.
Yoda having a lightsaber makes sense. The lightsaber is "the weapon of a Jedi Knight" after all. The Emperor also says "Your Jedi weapon".
What feels out of place is spry Yoda at 880 years old flipping around with a lightsaber only 20 years before The Empire Strikes Back. I can totally see a younger Yoda fighting that way, but it's weird when he's supposed to be so old. I'd assume as he grew older he would have used the lightsaber a lot less.
What feels out of place is spry Yoda at 880 years old flipping around with a lightsaber only 20 years before The Empire Strikes Back. I can totally see a younger Yoda fighting that way, but it's weird when he's supposed to be so old. I'd assume as he grew older he would have used the lightsaber a lot less.
Are you factoring in all the movies in the world that have ever released in any form, or is this only pertaining to North American Hollywood? Cause if it's the former, I think you're nuts.
Even just focusing on North American Hollywood, it's nuts. This is the same country that made Jason Goes to Hell.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It isn't. It's not even close to terrible. Because I like the stuff I like that much, and I prefer to focus on all the stuff there I DO like rather than all the stuff that I don't.
It's how I'm also a fan of:
Alien
James Bond
Star Trek
Harry Potter
Nightmare on Elm Street
Doctor Who
The Matrix
Indiana Jones
Back to the Future
Rocky
Not to mention being a fan of
Street Fighter
Castlevania
Mario
Zelda
Metal Gear
Grand Theft Auto
Dead Space
Resident Evil
So on and so forth...
It's not terrible at all. I don't even understand how that follows, really. You're basically making an argument that having discerning taste regardless the brand name attached to the flavor in question is ultimately a negative. And that the sheer amount of awesome stuff I can dive into is somehow diminished and made small by the fact there's also bad stuff out there, too.
It isn't.
That's fine.
I still think it must be terrible and sad to be so full of bitterness about half of a franchise you consider to be yourself "a fan" of.
One could argue that is a better movie than any of the three prequels for numerous reasons.
Obviously there's a bit of hyperbole in my statement, but they are three bad movies any way you cut it.
Infinitely smaller budget with a tenth of the social coverage.
You're a true consumer.
tearsintherain
Member
George Lucas fooled you all, Darth Jar Jar is the ultimate sith lord. It took a courageous reddit user to figure it out
http://darthjarjar.com/original-theory-by-lumpawarroo/
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/3qvj6w/theory_jar_jar_binks_was_a_trained_force_user/
http://darthjarjar.com/original-theory-by-lumpawarroo/
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/3qvj6w/theory_jar_jar_binks_was_a_trained_force_user/
Starsunder
Member
this is what i hope as well.
honestly i feel people shit on the prequel fights and post silly gifs not because of the flashy choreography, but because there is must less (i wont say no) emotional build up to the fights compared to the OT.
i mean, it doesnt have to be all or nothing; you can have exciting, fun choreography AND emotional build up.
hopefully episode 7 delivers on BOTH fronts.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Its not though.
The only thing thats terrible is how much of a disappointment the prequels were.
Star wars still kicks ass.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That's way different than simply not liking parts of it, though. Me disliking Episode II doesn't make me sad and bitter about Star Wars by default. Me thinking The Final Frontier is a fuckin' turd doesn't make me bitter about Star Trek automatically. Me thinking Beyond Thunderdome is a silly mess doesn't make me unfairly angry about Mad Max as a matter of fact.
People not liking everything in a series isn't sad. People liking the stuff they DO like does make them a fan. It doesn't make them a sad fan because they don't like all of it. And disliking something doesn't make you bitter, either. It just means you have a sense of taste and you can tell when something doesn't hit it.
No, I really mean it. It's ok if you think like that.
But seeing all the hyperbole and silly extreme negativity from some people just made me believe the very exact opposite. The only thing I'm saying is, I'm truly glad I'm able to enjoy all 6 movies instead of just half of them.
Both Yoda and the Emperor should not have fought with a lightsaber. they are above that.
The Emperor was full of contempt when he uttered "Ah the weapon of a Jedi" in ROTJ. Yoda was the definition of peaceful wizard teacher in ESB that was more than "crude matter".
Also didn't help that they all fought in locations you wouldn't give a shit about.
The Emperor was full of contempt when he uttered "Ah the weapon of a Jedi" in ROTJ. Yoda was the definition of peaceful wizard teacher in ESB that was more than "crude matter".
Also didn't help that they all fought in locations you wouldn't give a shit about.
- Yoda vs. Dooku: Random hangar on random planet.
- Sidious vs. Windu: TNG style flat lit & plain looking sci-fi office set design.
- Yoda vs. Sidious: "I threw the senate at him" duel in the full CG senate where you have problems reading perspective and lighting cues again.
- EDIT: Totally forgot Obi-Wan vs. Anakin. something I had been looking forward to since the beginning of the 90s. Should have been in the Emperor's lair as depicted in the original Ralph McQuarrie sketches not on random ass Mustafar where separatists are hiding you don't know the names of.
- First bonus duel: Random ass Naboo power core thing that is built inside an Italian palace. No idea why it is there or what it does.
- Second bonus duel: Random ass sink hole with wheel chase scene out of fucking nowhere where Obi Wan fights a character that should have been Dooku
- Duel on DS1 framed in the hangar doors so Luke can see his fate unfold in front of him
- Duel on Bespin where the height of failure is all around Luke and Vader is creepy as fuck in those dark maintenance corridors.
- Duel in the DS2 throne room, all our nothing, again for Luke, right in front of the Emperor with the fleet of his friends suffering big losses right outside in the climactic battle.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
That's kind of the whole point though behind balance of the force that people miss. Like people say the Jedi were hypocrites and had stupid rules, but that's how they're supposed to be viewed. The Jedi were all light side and the sith were all dark side, no balance. Qui Gon was a slightly orthodox Jedi that broke some rules. Obi-wan, his apprentice, even moreso and dabbled into forbidden emotions in the edge of the dark side. Anakin, his apprentice, went all out and became sith.
However, Anakin was them able to redeem himself and strike a balance between light and dark. That, I believe, is part of the canon explanation of force ghosts. You have to be able to accept both the light and dark without letting one consume the other. Even Luke so obviously is a new breed of Jedi that used both light and dark sides, but never allowed one to consume the other. And it's because of Anakin that the major powerhouses of the force were brought down and this new age of balanced force use really took off.
Of course, I have no clue how VII is going to interpret this all.
UnforgivenTwin
Member
Han me bokee.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
Oh come on, not this again. If Yoda was above using a lightsaber then why would he lead a large organization of lightsaber users?
It gave us this guy. He's pretty cool.
Is he, though? He's a non-character, little more than some sinister make-up, a silly "how 'bout TWO LIGHTSABERS!?!" poster boy.
Lucas is a hack. A smart business man but a terrible artist. Everything good about Star Wars was lifted or contributed by more gifted people. He's like Walt Disney, he knew how to surround himself with talent and put his name on it.
Dictator93
Member
Because the jedi knights are beyond a martial order in a strict sense, the prequel films made everything turn into a lightsabre fetish. The original trilogy presents yoda as a wise hermit, mystic emphasizing the non-corporeal nature of the force.
Him dancing around and using a light sabre completely destroys that peaceful and thoughtful side of the force / jedi.
It also looks completely silly.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No, that's not what you're saying. You're saying people are somehow fucked up for not liking things the way you like them.
Nope. Not at all.
That's what happens when a random fan decides that they know what a character "is all about" instead of the author.
Yoda, being this Grand Master Jedi, would feel so wrong if he never wielded a lightsaber. Was he supposed to be a pacifistic who doled out helpful quotes whenever someone tugged on the string on his back?
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
I think there's a hidden achievement if we hit 20 active Star Wars threads in three days
You've developed a really nasty elitist tone over these last few SW threads. I feel like you're putting a lot of words in peoples' mouths.
Anyhow; the complaints over the Yoda & Palpatine lightsabers aren't that they shouldn't be allowed to touch them. It's that the characters as originally portrayed are so much more interesting and intimidating because they go against the standard direct-kung-fu approach.
If you told me pre-1999 that there was going to be a Yoda & Palpatine fight that set the stage for 30 years of darkness, holy SHIT would I have been excited. I wouldn't know what to expect, but the possibilities, just based off the glimpses you get in ESB and RotJ; god damn. Who knows! Even if you told me it would have lightsabers, oh man; that sounds fascinating. With Yoda's stature and advanced age, what would that look like? Would it be one of those things where you almost never even see him use it, it's just whipped out surgically and unbelievably precisely because he's somewhere around NINE HUNDRED YEARS OLD AND A MASTER?
...ahem. Sorry.
Instead it was two Neo clones having another lightsaber fight. Just wasted potential, I guess. It made both characters less interesting.
(Or to keep with SF; it's like Lucas and his crew decided that everyone in the prequels had to be Ryu.)
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I remember reading somewhere that part of the purpose of the rerelease was to help finance the prequels, so the point could still stand..
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