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[Durante]

• I don't like this habit of splitting an already very small market.
• I don't want to have all the Oculus services on my computer. The store itself I don't mind.
• There is no guarantee that spending money in Oculus store on games played through Vive will mean the games will work tomorrow too.

That's the most crucial point for me.
Not just on Vive right now, but if I buy a Huawei Rive 4k HDR HMD in 2017 I'm pretty damn confident that I'll still be able to use it for all my SteamVR games. On the other hand, I have no confidence in anticipating what Oculus does tomorrow -- they already tried hardware DRM once.

 

[Zalusithix]

That's the most crucial point for me.
Not just on Vive right now, but if I buy a Huawei Rive 4k HDR HMD in 2017 I'm pretty damn confident that I'll still be able to use it for all my SteamVR games. On the other hand, I have no confidence in anticipating what Oculus does tomorrow -- they already tried hardware DRM once.

Well they said they wont do it again in the future. Of course they've made a lot of statements only to backtrack on them. Personally I'm in a wait and see mode. Actions speak louder than words. If gen 2 pops up and they don't pull any of the fuckery that they did at the beginning of this gen, then I'll start considering them as a store platform. I'll even consider them for gen 3 hardware.

Consider being the key word here because there's more than just their past anticonsumer tactics that factor in.

 

[sammex]

Microsoft Research Demonstrates VR Controller Prototypes With Unique Haptic Technology

I hope something like this makes it to market in the future.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

I wish you could use Rift + Vive stuff simultaneously. Steam VR seems to only want to detect Rift + Camera or Vive + base stations + controllers. I'd like to use my Rift + Camera + base stations + Vive controllers sometime. I don't have a great reason to want this, just sort of a "why not?"

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Microsoft Research Demonstrates VR Controller Prototypes With Unique Haptic Technology

I hope something like this makes it to market in the future.

That's really cool. Hope we can get something like that down the line.

 

[Peltz]

how many devs are going to design for touch and exclude themselves from vive for the sake of one button? None.

Im more concerned about vive "360 tracking with motion controls" being left behind due to the much larger installed base of "sit down with a controller" of PSVR and OR, or the smaller "motion controls but only 180 degrees" of move + touch

This is something that I've been wondering.... if Sony wanted to continue using the PS Move + Camera setup for next gen VR, would it be possible for them to develop a solution that also had cameras embedded on the headset itself to track move controllers? That would eliminate the need to position cameras around the room.

Plus, reconciling multiple camera angles would probably make the Move controllers more accurate in 3D space.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

This is something that I've been wondering.... if Sony wanted to continue using the PS Move + Camera setup for next gen VR, would it be possible for them to develop a solution that also had cameras embedded on the headset itself to track move controllers? That would eliminate the need to position cameras around the room.

Plus, reconciling multiple camera angles would probably make the Move controllers more accurate in 3D space.

I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense functionally for cameras to be on the headset (for that purpose). I don't think it would be physically possible to get 360 degree coverage and even you did, you could still occlude the controllers from it pretty easily. Maybe sensors could work though. Similar to the Razer Hydra, perhaps there's a way to make the HMD a "base station" and the controllers could get positional data based on that. I'm sure that tech doesn't quite exist yet though. At least not to the degree that it needs to for that purpose.

 

[Zalusithix]

Pointless speculation IMO. If Sony is still using PSMove in the next gen, then they fucked up badly. They get a pass this time, but they need to get away from visible light tracking.

 

[Jal]

Which game utilises the Move gun accessory shown in the OP?

 

[Zalusithix]

Which game utilises the Move gun accessory shown in the OP?

Nothing. PSVR uses a new gun (Aim) with Farpoint.

 

[Jal]

Nothing. PSVR uses a new gun (Aim) with Farpoint.

Looks nice but i guess it won't be cheap with everything being built in.

 

[Durante]

Finally got to play Raw Data after the patch (got to wait for coop!), and it got significantly better again.

I love the new katana throw mechanics. Since you now have full control over the direction, the speed, and its movement while mid-air it's even more skill-based than before. I'm far from perfect at it, but you can pull off a great variety of moves with it now, from a slow "shield" in mid-air in front of you all the way to picking off drones at much larger distances than before.

It's still WIP obviously, I had a few collision detection snafus, but it's on a really good track now.

Edit: this was intended for the Vive thread, sorry about that!

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

I haven't figured out the sword in Raw Data. You control it after releasing? I guess I'll have to try again. My arm was sore the next day when I first played.

 

[fin]

Long story short, I used my DK2 to convince my manager to buy a HTC Vive and dedicate a room to VR. We're a large EPCM company and I'm exporting our CAD projects into Unity. Basically making a game out of our projects. It's only been a week, but after some programing for navigation and querying, it's been a great success so far. VR is going to change the engineering and construction industry in a big way! Super exciting!

 

[Widge]

I've only stumbled upon this by chance, but has anyone been keeping an eye on OSVR?

http://www.osvr.org/hdk2.html

Currently is more affordable that the other two PC offerings. I don't care for roomscale (seriously, I just want to sit down and play stuff like Elite).

EDIT:

That is not too unaffordable when I look at amazon.com - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HDUVIZ0/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Zalusithix]

I've only stumbled upon this by chance, but has anyone been keeping an eye on OSVR?

http://www.osvr.org/hdk2.html

Currently is more affordable that the other two PC offerings. I don't care for roomscale (seriously, I just want to sit down and play stuff like Elite).

EDIT:

That is not too unaffordable when I look at amazon.com - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HDUVIZ0/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Yeah, the HDK/HDK2 have been discussed before, but I don't think we have anybody that owns one. The HDK was inferior to the Rift/Vive in most respects, and by the time the HDK2 came out, us early adopters were already set. The thing that interests me the most with the HDK is the lenses; they're not Fresnel or hybrid Fresnel like the Vive/Rift, but not a simple lens like the DK1/2/PSVR/Gear/etc either. They're a dual element design.

In my case it's not worth the investment for that alone though. I already have a Vive and spend 90% of my VR time using tracked controllers. The best lenses in the world couldn't get me to give up that functionality.

 

[Widge]

Such an uncertain market at the moment!

 

[Augustiner]

Descent Underground is on sale at the moment (http://store.steampowered.com/app/477200/?snr=1_7_15__13). Does anyone have some opinions on if it's worth playing?

From what I've read so far, it seems it is multi-player only at the moment, and has some unfortunate pay mechanics where you have to buy new ships with real money. Is that a deal-breaker for those who have played it?

 

[M_A_C]

Since no one answered in the Rift thread, is the Rift with the Touch 100% confirmed to be able to play all Vive games from steam? If so the Rift seems like the best choice since it is supposed to be more comfortable, have slightly better visuals, and the touch controller have more features.

I looking at which headset to "upgrade" to from the PSVR since the wobble annoys me, but I love VR. Has Sony acknowledged the wobble at all?

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Since no one answered in the Rift thread, is the Rift with the Touch 100% confirmed to be able to play all Vive games from steam? If so the Rift seems like the best choice since it is supposed to be more comfortable, have slightly better visuals, and the touch controller have more features.

I looking at which headset to "upgrade" to from the PSVR since the wobble annoys me, but I love VR. Has Sony acknowledged the wobble at all?

Visuals assuming you mean SDE, FoV, and lenses is more or less a wash from my understanding. Vive has better FoV and less lens glare, Rift has better SDE. The differences are apparently largely negligible though.

As for your question about Touch compatibility, I'm sure there will be some quirks here and there due to the differences with the touchpad and the analog sticks, but Valve is going out of it's way to make Touch work with SteamVR so I wouldn't worry about that.

If you have the room for roomscale, I'd still give the edge to Vive. You'll be able to get that with Rift but you'll need three cameras and tracking coverage still probably won't be quite as good as Vive's. If you don't have the room, then Rift might be what you should look in to though.

 

[M_A_C]

Visuals assuming you mean SDE, FoV, and lenses is more or less a wash from my understanding. Vive has better FoV and less lens glare, Rift has better SDE. The differences are apparently largely negligible though.

As for your question about Touch compatibility, I'm sure there will be some quirks here and there due to the differences with the touchpad and the analog sticks, but Valve is going out of it's way to make Touch work with SteamVR so I wouldn't worry about that.

If you have the room for roomscale, I'd still give the edge to Vive. You'll be able to get that with Rift but you'll need three cameras and tracking coverage still probably won't be quite as good as Vive's. If you don't have the room, then Rift might be what you should look in to though.

I do have the room for roomscale. Its a tough choice between the two right now. PSVR is pretty great too, just wish the tracking was better.

Any able to relate how hard it is to get the Vive "sweet-spot" compared to the PSVR?

 

[Zalusithix]

I do have the room for roomscale. Its a tough choice between the two right now. PSVR is pretty great too, just wish the tracking was better.

Any able to relate how hard it is to get the Vive "sweet-spot" compared to the PSVR?

By sweet spot do you mean for visual clarity (as in how much positional leeway on the headset you have for a sharp image at the center of the lenses), or do you mean for tracking (as in area in which you're accurately tracked)? I assume you mean the first, but given PSVR has sweet spots for both I can't be entirely sure.

I wouldn't be able to answer for the headset positioning (though if I had to take a guess, it probably is more finicky than PSVR), but for tracking there isn't a sweet spot on the Vive. It doesn't really care if you're a foot from an appropriately mounted lighthouse or 15 feet. Tracking accuracy goes down the further you are away from one, but even at max distance it'll be at least as accurate as PSVR in its ideal range.

Stepping away from PSVR and back to your original debate on Rift/Vive, keep in mind that the positioning of tracking gear has different requirements for the two. The lighthouses are 'dumb' devices that just need to be near an outlet for power, while the Rift cameras are sensors that must be physically linked back to the PC. For sitting experiences this doesn't matter, but once you start going for 360/roomscale, you're going to have to run a USB3 cable back to the computer from the far side of your play area. Also the lighthouses have a larger tracking FoV (120 degrees H and V) than the Rift's camera. This allows the effective play area to go right up to where they're placed whereas the Rift will need some dead space between them and the play area to have a full visual of the space. How much either of those aspects affects a person will vary, but depending on the room layout, they can potentially kill the Rift as an option.

 

[Soi-Fong]

Pointless speculation IMO. If Sony is still using PSMove in the next gen, then they fucked up badly. They get a pass this time, but they need to get away from visible light tracking.

I think it's pretty clear Sony will go with new tech for the PS5/PSVR2.

I think this generation Sony is just trying to establish the user base and show that mass-consumer, console VR is viable.

Not only that but they can only improve on the weight and comfort of the PSVR.

It really is hard for me to keep the Vive or Rift on for more than 30-40 minutes. The pressure on my face just becomes too much.

 

[M_A_C]

Screw it I just ordered a Vive! The wobble if I didn't sit 4 ft in front of my camera was driving me nuts on the PSVR.

I hope I like it! Room-scale looks to cool.

 

[Zalusithix]

It really is hard for me to keep the Vive or Rift on for more than 30-40 minutes. The pressure on my face just becomes too much.

I have no problem with the Vive on for longer time periods aside from heavy activity sessions. Then again, I'm used to things that are less than super comfortable like helmets. Unlike VR nausea, I can say with confidence that you can get used to comfort issues like that over time. Not that you should have to, but it's possible.

Screw it I just ordered a Vive! The wobble if I didn't sit 4 ft in front of my camera was driving me nuts on the PSVR.

I hope I like it! Room-scale looks to cool.

With Vive tracking just be weary of reflective surfaces in the room. They're the Achilles heel of the tracking tech. Outside of that, it's quite resilient.

 

[irrotational]

Have there been any announcements about when (or if) the various PSVR games will come out on PC? I keep checking Steam occasionally to see if any have appeared yet but I don't think they have.

Thumper, Rez Infinite and Headmaster being 3 that I'd really like to see....I'd also like to play the puzzle game super-hyper-cube but they have said that Luckey is a complete c*ck so I think they are still boycotting Rift.

 

[Business]

Screw it I just ordered a Vive! The wobble if I didn't sit 4 ft in front of my camera was driving me nuts on the PSVR.

I hope I like it! Room-scale looks to cool.

I have no doubt you will, the Vive is a rock solid piece of kit.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Have there been any announcements about when (or if) the various PSVR games will come out on PC? I keep checking Steam occasionally to see if any have appeared yet but I don't think they have.

Thumper, Rez Infinite and Headmaster being 3 that I'd really like to see....I'd also like to play the puzzle game super-hyper-cube but they have said that Luckey is a complete c*ck so I think they are still boycotting Rift.

There was a thread a while back that had a pretty good breakdown of what's exclusive and not and how long some of the exclusives are (it says it in fine print for most of them). I can't find it, but I can say off hand that Thumper is getting VR on PC by the end of the year, Rez Infinite could come to PC eventually but no confirmation, and I'm not sure about Headmaster. Most other games seem to have a 6 month to 1 year exclusivity window. Obviously, games where Sony is heavily involved in development are permanent exclusives.

 

[irrotational]

There was a thread a while back that had a pretty good breakdown of what's exclusive and not and how long some of the exclusives are (it says it in fine print for most of them). I can't find it, but I can say off hand that Thumper is getting VR on PC by the end of the year, Rez Infinite could come to PC eventually but no confirmation, and I'm not sure about Headmaster. Most other games seem to have a 6 month to 1 year exclusivity window. Obviously, games where Sony is heavily involved in development are permanent exclusives.

Ah ok - longer than i was hoping - thanks!

Edit - fourth post of this thread has a useful reference list

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1044658

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I'd also like to play the puzzle game super-hyper-cube but they have said that Luckey is a complete c*ck so I think they are still boycotting Rift.

Still, the fact that Polytron even mentioned Oculus means they ARE planning a PC port at some point.

SteamVR is still compatible with the Oculus headset, unless Polytron actually does something to block it from working, and I can't imagine them spending the effort to do that.

 

[Zalusithix]

As far as Headmaster goes, there was recently something similar in concept put up on Steam. No idea how it compares beyond hitting balls with your head as the idea doesn't interest me. Just remember seeing it on Steam's VR games listing the other day when I was seeing what new stuff was available.

 

[irrotational]

Still, the fact that Polytron even mentioned Oculus means they ARE planning a PC port at some point.

SteamVR is still compatible with the Oculus headset, unless Polytron actually does something to block it from working, and I can't imagine them spending the effort to do that.

Ah ok - I didn't realise a SteamVR game supported the Oculus headset by default but that makes sense. I guess they mean the oculus store then.

As far as Headmaster goes, there was recently something similar in concept put up on Steam. No idea how it compares beyond hitting balls with your head as the idea doesn't interest me. Just remember seeing it on Steam's VR games listing the other day when I was seeing what new stuff was available.

Yeah I've seen it listed, for about £4...headmaster is currently lowest on my list but the writing is meant to be quite funny and the scenario is quite good. I'm not sure if a copy-pasta version with "just" heading balls would be enough. That said I haven't checked it out so the Steam game may have great merits in its own right.

 

[jahepi]

Hi Gaf!!

I am about to buy HTC Vive, but i don´t know if my current PC is good enough:

970 Gtx, i5 4670 and 8GB Ram.

I´ve been excited for VR since i was a kid (Virtual Boy), is it really worth it?, it is compared to the Mario 64 WOW moment, i want to experience that again. (I´ve tried google cardboard and Gear vr).

I am on the verge of clicking the purchase button.

Thanks Gaf

 

[Bio-Frost]

Hi Gaf!!

I am about to buy HTC Vive, but i don´t know if my current PC is good enough:

970 Gtx, i5 4670 and 8GB Ram.

I´ve been excited for VR since i was a kid (Virtual Boy), is it really worth it?, it is compared to the Mario 64 WOW moment, i want to experience that again. (I´ve tried google cardboard and Gear vr).

I am on the verge of clicking the purchase button.

Thanks Gaf

I think it would "work" but alot of more intense games like raw data will be unplayable for you.
I would get another 8 gigs of ram and a new videocard if you want a "smooth" experence.

I have a gtx 1060, i72600k and 16 gigs of ram and still experence issues in some more graphically intense games.

 

[Durante]

That's pretty accurate.

I'd argue that at least 90% of all worthwhile VR games/experiences will work well on that setup.
The other 10% will also work (I have a friend who plays Raw Data on a 970), but not at a great level of visual quality.

 

[jahepi]

Thanks Bio-Frost & Durante.

Its time, `ve been waiting for this moment since i was a kid, the wait is going to be long!
Purchased, i am a new vive owner at last!

Thanks GAF!!

 

[Zalusithix]

Hi Gaf!!

I am about to buy HTC Vive, but i don´t know if my current PC is good enough:

970 Gtx, i5 4670 and 8GB Ram.

I´ve been excited for VR since i was a kid (Virtual Boy), is it really worth it?, it is compared to the Mario 64 WOW moment, i want to experience that again. (I´ve tried google cardboard and Gear vr).

I am on the verge of clicking the purchase button.

Thanks Gaf

You're more or less at what the original min spec for a VR capable system was. Most games will run fine, but some might require dialing things down a bit (like Raw Data).

As for whether it's worth it... that's very hard to say with any certainty as it depends on the individual. There is no Mario 64 for VR yet. Speaking from personal experience, VR can evoke feelings similar to the wow felt back then, but the experiences aren't as full fledged or polished. Everything is more experimental.

For somebody like myself that enjoys watching nascent technology progress, it was definitely worth it. There's only so many times in your life that you get to experience the birth of a new technology after all. For somebody that wants lots of polished games with lots of content, however, VR won't offer them much. Add to that the fact that the technology will iterate quickly when compared to console lifespans. This will leave the headset outdated by the time there is lots of that sort of content. (Likely not unusable on the PC side, but outdated just the same.)

Fake edit: I see you bought in while I was writing this, but I'll post it anyhow.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Hi Gaf!!

I am about to buy HTC Vive, but i don´t know if my current PC is good enough:

970 Gtx, i5 4670 and 8GB Ram.

I had a 970 when I first bought my Vive.

You will probably want to do some upgrades in the near-ish future, but until then your Vive will still work perfectly fine.

 

[BlackBanditSho]

Question for VR GAF that owns both PSVR and Vive.

I guess I'm a little confused about room scale. I played quite a bit of the Vive last weekend and loved my experiences with Accounting, Serious Sam, Onward and a bunch more. Especially Onward and Accounting. The one-to-one feeling of shooting the handgun in Onward still blows my mind, and I can really see the gulf between the super high end VR stuff and the solid tech that Sony has with PSVR.

That said, I dig PSVR. A full Vive package is way out of my price range, so the PSVR has been everything I need coming from a GEAR VR (which is still cool and has its place). My question is what 'exactly' is room scale. It seems like PSVR can come pretty close to experiences of Accounting and Onward meaning that there is an actual area it seems that I can walk around it. It's waaaaaay smaller than Vive, no doubt, but in games like Sports Bar VR (the PSVR Social pub game), I can totally walk around within a very specific area.

Serious Sam seems TOTALLY doable. Same for Space Pirate Trainer.

I get that PSVR isn't nearly as precise as Vive, but can PSVR pretty much do those experiences I mentioned? I'm still blown away by Accounting....

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

Saying the range of PSVR is comparable to roomscale with Vive is so off the mark I don't even know how to explain it if it's not already clear.

Take a "true" roomscale game for comparison, like A Chair in a Room. That game takes place in a series of rooms, and you often have to explore them in their entirety. On PSVR you would have to teleport around the room just to reach something a few feet away. In my Vive setup, I can literally just walk 15 feet in my room to get to the other side, teleportation isn't even a mechanic I can use because it would serve no purpose.

It is a world of difference.

 

[Tain]

Question for VR GAF that owns both PSVR and Vive.

I guess I'm a little confused about room scale. I played quite a bit of the Vive last weekend and loved my experiences with Accounting, Serious Sam, Onward and a bunch more. Especially Onward and Accounting. The one-to-one feeling of shooting the handgun in Onward still blows my mind, and I can really see the gulf between the super high end VR stuff and the solid tech that Sony has with PSVR.

That said, I dig PSVR. A full Vive package is way out of my price range, so the PSVR has been everything I need coming from a GEAR VR (which is still cool and has its place). My question is what 'exactly' is room scale. It seems like PSVR can come pretty close to experiences of Accounting and Onward meaning that there is an actual area it seems that I can walk around it. It's waaaaaay smaller than Vive, no doubt, but in games like Sports Bar VR (the PSVR Social pub game), I can totally walk around within a very specific area.

Serious Sam seems TOTALLY doable. Same for Space Pirate Trainer.

I get that PSVR isn't nearly as precise as Vive, but can PSVR pretty much do those experiences I mentioned? I'm still blown away by Accounting....

Roomscale isn't something universally defined, but Valve's definition is essentially a 1.5m x 2m space with 360-degree tracking and motion controllers.

Most SteamVR "roomscale" games will work in a smaller "standing" space that has 360-degree tracking, due to them using teleportation or artificial locomotion (exceptions being things like Accounting and the original version of Job Simulator). Problem is, PSVR can only do 180-degree tracking. So while Serious Sam and Space Pirate Trainer will work due to their forward-facing nature, things like Tiltbrush, Fantastic Contraption, Onward, and others won't. You'll have Move tracking issues when facing away from the camera.

That 180-degree vs 360-degree difference will cause the largest amount of fragmentation, if you ask me. Much larger than roomscale vs standing. There are theoretically some ways you can adapt the 360-degree games into a 180-degree area (a "flip" button, large-increment artificial rotation, etc), but idk how elegant those adaptations will be in practice.

 

[Zalusithix]

Accounting also makes use of roomscale in the full sense. No teleportation; you have to physically walk around the virtual space. Compacting that space to PSVR levels would result in rather claustrophobic environments. The experience is also designed for arbitrary rotation. They'd have to redesign the levels so you were always facing mostly forward which would make it feel more artificial. It's possible to make the changes, but who knows how much would be lost in the process.

 

[BlackBanditSho]

Roomscale isn't something universally defined, but Valve's definition is essentially a 1.5m x 2m space with 360-degree tracking and motion controllers.

Most SteamVR "roomscale" games will work in a smaller "standing" space that has 360-degree tracking, due to them using teleportation or artificial locomotion. Problem is, PSVR can only do 180-degree tracking. So while Serious Sam and Space Pirate Trainer will work due to their forward-facing nature, things like Tiltbrush, Fantastic Contraption, Onward, and others won't.

That 180-degree vs 360-degree difference will cause the largest amount of fragmentation imo. There are theoretically some ways you can adapt the 360-degree games into a 180-degree area (a "flip" button, large-increment artificial rotation, etc), but idk how elegant those adaptations will be.

Interesting. There's a game called Brookhaven Experiment that got around the 180 issue problem by utilizing a single button 180 degree turn. Not ideal, but i guess it works.

The main reason I was asking was because certain games like Onward on Vive and the upcoming Farpoint on PSVR seem to have figured out the locomotion problem. Teleporting isn't great, and for some reason a few games will allow complete freedom of movement with the left analog. This allows for exploration - which is a direction that I hope more VR games go towards. Wave based enemies assaulting the player at a rooted spot has its appeal, but the real joy of the tech seems to be in allowing the player to become intimate with a space in a way that approximates their reactions in the real world, then affect that space. Slower, more methodical, more exploration heavy experiences are awesome in VR, and it seems that some form of room scale will need to work for those games to work.

I just wanted to measure if gen 1 of PSVR is as far off the technological mark as people think, or are the more substantive exploratory (off rails) experiences achievable on the range of VR tech from PSVR to Vive?

Accounting also makes use of roomscale in the full sense. No teleportation; you have to physically walk around the virtual space. Compacting that space to PSVR levels would result in rather claustrophobic environments. The experience is also designed for arbitrary rotation. They'd have to redesign the levels so you were always facing mostly forward which would make it feel more artificial. It's possible to make the changes, but who knows how much would be lost in the process.

Yeah, i figured some sort of redesign would be in order. My friend who owns and loves the Vive admitted that most games don't really use 360 and that 180 makes up the majority of the great vive games. Yes it was IN-FREAKING-CREDIBLE in Accounting, but i wonder how many games really 'need' to search behind the player? I guess it's awesome for jump scares, but as for design? It's something to consider....

 

[Zalusithix]

The main reason I was asking was because certain games like Onward on Vive and the upcoming Farpoint on PSVR seem to have figured out the locomotion problem. Teleporting isn't great, and for some reason a few games will allow complete freedom of movement with the left analog

Free movement via stick/pad is almost always strafe, not rotation for nausea reasons. If your system doesn't support physical 360 rotation, you're rather screwed outside of cockpit games with a controller.

Roomscale is nice to have, but the real clincher is 360 rotation. PSVR will always be limited by that. There are no good solutions to that problem.

 

[Haint]

Question for VR GAF that owns both PSVR and Vive.

I guess I'm a little confused about room scale. I played quite a bit of the Vive last weekend and loved my experiences with Accounting, Serious Sam, Onward and a bunch more. Especially Onward and Accounting. The one-to-one feeling of shooting the handgun in Onward still blows my mind, and I can really see the gulf between the super high end VR stuff and the solid tech that Sony has with PSVR.

That said, I dig PSVR. A full Vive package is way out of my price range, so the PSVR has been everything I need coming from a GEAR VR (which is still cool and has its place). My question is what 'exactly' is room scale. It seems like PSVR can come pretty close to experiences of Accounting and Onward meaning that there is an actual area it seems that I can walk around it. It's waaaaaay smaller than Vive, no doubt, but in games like Sports Bar VR (the PSVR Social pub game), I can totally walk around within a very specific area.

Serious Sam seems TOTALLY doable. Same for Space Pirate Trainer.

I get that PSVR isn't nearly as precise as Vive, but can PSVR pretty much do those experiences I mentioned? I'm still blown away by Accounting....

Timely question, I just played through the Tomb Raider Manor last night as a standing quasi-micro-roomscale experience. Unfortunately though, it was a bit of a nightmare. The tracking fidelity absolutely is not there to do anything but front facing, centered experiences. Attempting 90-180-360 degree headset turns would almost always judder and wobble the world, ranging from minor to almost made me fall the fuck over. At one point it got so jacked up I had to quit and relaunch the game to fix it. Don't just take my word for it though, you can find a LOT of complaints in the PSVR thread about Job Simulator (which also puts you in a small tracking box) being borderline unplayable.

 

[BlackBanditSho]

Timely question, I just played through the Tomb Raider Manor last night as a standing quasi-micro-roomscale experience. Unfortunately though, it was a bit of a nightmare. The tracking fidelity absolutely is not there to do anything but front facing, centered experiences. Attempting 90-180-360 degree headset turns would almost always judder and wobble the world, ranging from minor to almost made me fall the fuck over. At one point it got so jacked up I had to quit and relaunch the game to fix it. Don't just take my word for it though, you can find a LOT of complaints in this thread about Job Simulator (which also puts you in a small tracking box) being borderline unplayable.

That's a real bummer. I bought Job Simulator at PSVR launch but have been scared to put it in because of all the bad comments on GAF. I'm currently on a PSVR high being pleasantly surprised. Again, I came from GEAR VR and played quite a bit of VIVE, so thinking that PSVR was going to be super mediocre was how I prepared for launch. Currently, the FoV is my only real compliant as i haven't had any tracking issues or real juddering to speak of. I was starting to get optimistic about the types of games that could be explored as micro-room scale seems to have been achieved.

Now? I guess I'm reigning in those hopes a little bit and coming back to reality. Is the way to try the Tomb Raider experience to buy the full game? I"d buy just the VR segment if I could...

 

[M_A_C]

As far as Headmaster goes, there was recently something similar in concept put up on Steam. No idea how it compares beyond hitting balls with your head as the idea doesn't interest me. Just remember seeing it on Steam's VR games listing the other day when I was seeing what new stuff was available.

The awesome thing about Headmaster is that it's really funny with a portal type vibe/humor. The heading is pretty fun too.

That's a real bummer. I bought Job Simulator at PSVR launch but have been scared to put it in because of all the bad comments on GAF. I'm currently on a PSVR high being pleasantly surprised. Again, I came from GEAR VR and played quite a bit of VIVE, so thinking that PSVR was going to be super mediocre was how I prepared for launch. Currently, the FoV is my only real compliant as i haven't had any tracking issues or real juddering to speak of. I was starting to get optimistic about the types of games that could be explored as micro-room scale seems to have been achieved.

Now? I guess I'm reigning in those hopes a little bit and coming back to reality. Is the way to try the Tomb Raider experience to buy the full game? I"d buy just the VR segment if I could...

yeah the poor tracking of Job Sim is what made me go order a Vive because it is really fun demo but the tech issues are really bad.

 

[Haint]

That's a real bummer. I bought Job Simulator at PSVR launch but have been scared to put it in because of all the bad comments on GAF. I'm currently on a PSVR high being pleasantly surprised. Again, I came from GEAR VR and played quite a bit of VIVE, so thinking that PSVR was going to be super mediocre was how I prepared for launch. Currently, the FoV is my only real compliant as i haven't had any tracking issues or real juddering to speak of. I was starting to get optimistic about the types of games that could be explored as micro-room scale seems to have been achieved.

Now? I guess I'm reigning in those hopes a little bit and coming back to reality. Is the way to try the Tomb Raider experience to buy the full game? I"d buy just the VR segment if I could...

Check any local video stores, I rented it, 1 day for $2. Mine even had Rush of Blood and Batman. It's not a particularly good experience though, graphics are blurry/lowres and there's no floor or height calibration (floor was at my knee or thigh). You can bend down and experiment with recalibrating to get near your real floor level, but then you're kind of a giant looking at miniatures.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

This Binding of Isaac experiment is pretty cool. Though I doubt they'll be able to put a complete thing of this out there, I think there's a lot of potential for a game where you control the character puppet style. Kind of taking Xortex's idea in to other spaces (though I guess Binding of Isaac is still kind of bullet hell).

Roomscale isn't something universally defined, but Valve's definition is essentially a 1.5m x 2m space with 360-degree tracking and motion controllers.

Most SteamVR "roomscale" games will work in a smaller "standing" space that has 360-degree tracking, due to them using teleportation or artificial locomotion (exceptions being things like Accounting and the original version of Job Simulator). Problem is, PSVR can only do 180-degree tracking. So while Serious Sam and Space Pirate Trainer will work due to their forward-facing nature, things like Tiltbrush, Fantastic Contraption, Onward, and others won't. You'll have Move tracking issues when facing away from the camera.

That 180-degree vs 360-degree difference will cause the largest amount of fragmentation, if you ask me. Much larger than roomscale vs standing. There are theoretically some ways you can adapt the 360-degree games into a 180-degree area (a "flip" button, large-increment artificial rotation, etc), but idk how elegant those adaptations will be in practice.

Yeah, I think this is one of the big differentiators right now. For example, snap turning on Vive doesn't even need to be a thing because you can rotate your body 360 degrees. I think one of the reasons Onward's artificial locomotion works is because you physically turn with your actual body. You can't do that with a setup limited to 180.

 

[cakefoo]

Yeah, i figured some sort of redesign would be in order. My friend who owns and loves the Vive admitted that most games don't really use 360 and that 180 makes up the majority of the great vive games. Yes it was IN-FREAKING-CREDIBLE in Accounting, but i wonder how many games really 'need' to search behind the player? I guess it's awesome for jump scares, but as for design? It's something to consider....

Your friend seems to be not well-versed in his own belongings. 180 experiences I own include Space Pirate Trainer, Pong Waves VR, Audioshield, and some bits of The Lab. The rest of them are 360, including Holopoint, Chair in a Room, Hotdogs Horseshoes & Hand Grenades, Accounting, Onward, Brookhaven Experiment, Rec Room, Job Simulator, Budget Cuts, Vanishing Realms, Cosmic Trip, Fantastic Contraption, Tiltbrush, Out of Ammo, HordeZ, Blarp!, Soundstage, Waltz of the Wizard, Vanishing of Ethan Carter, Solus Project, Fine China, GPU Cubes and Raw Data.