Atraveller
Banned
He didn't expect it to be pirated? Please.
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The Witness is being heavily pirated. J. Blow says piracy could impact his future.
- Thread starter Raylan
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I don't understand this argument. If no one had ever pirated a game before The Witness why would that have any impact on his reaction?
He made a thing, people are taking that thing without paying him for it. He does not like this. He wishes people would pay him.
Why should his reaction be affected by his understanding of the existing theft within the game world?
If a man steals your wallet are you supposed to be more accepting of it because it is a known fact that wallets get stolen?
Steve Youngblood
Member
Sure, but in terms of statements where misguided devs/publishers lash out needlessly at a common problem and present disingenuous arguments, this is pretty damn tame. There's even a lighthearted admission about being glad that more people are playing the game before segueing into how it impacts him financially. He's not making hyperbolic statements about how he and his team can't put food on the table because of filthy pirate scumbags.
This is a pretty innocuous tweet.
BluePigGanon
Member
Seriously. I don't get why he's not allowed to say anything about it, or if he does say something about it he has to choose his words carefully. So bizarre.
Atraveller
Banned
But it's not a known fact that my wallet is going to be stolen, that's the difference.
CecilRousso
Member
Well, he does know that. None of his tweets the last day implies that he's suprised by this.
It's no more reasonable to assume that 0% of pirates would've otherwise purchased the game than it is to assert that every download is a lost sale.
If 1% of pirates would've bought the game, that's $800K in lost sales. That's pretty meaningful for an indie dev.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Didn't know there were so many piracy apologists on gaf
Atraveller
Banned
He should worry about whether people who have the habit of buying games would buy his.
So your argument is that his game will definitely be stolen, so he should not get angry?
It seems to me that he, having a higher statistical probability of being robbed of his game then you do of your wallet, has more of a right to get angry about it then you would.
Why can't he be unhappy?
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I think it's the "Oh he priced it too high." argument that really bothers me.
If the game is priced too high, don't buy it, it's simple as that.
Taking it without paying doesn't prove anything.
If you can't afford the game, play something else, there's more than enough legitimate free software out there for multiple lifetimes.
If the game is priced too high, don't buy it, it's simple as that.
Taking it without paying doesn't prove anything.
If you can't afford the game, play something else, there's more than enough legitimate free software out there for multiple lifetimes.
It's really not fair to blame the creator for a bunch of people pirating his game. People pirate mobile games that cost 99 cents.
Pirates defending pirates? who would have thought
TheKastorian
Member
I would easily pay $60 for this game. Already GOTY for me. People pirating the game are a bunch of ignorant jerks that just think this a 15 minute puzzle game. If it's not cost-prohibitive,Mr. Blow should just keep the game console-exlusive.
GatticusFinch
Member
Because he made a thing he didn't want stolen, but took no effort to stop it, and then complained about it being stolen. In fact, he released a DRM-free version so that the pirates didn't even have to crack it, just download it and play immediately.
Shit, we see threads on here of people dying of cancer and asking for donations and people lost their shit about why they didn't buy better health or life insurance, but asking a dev who is worried about piracy to take some steps to prevent it is apparently crossing the line.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I'm sure he is. I think you're reading too much into one tweet.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I've only really seen one post that seems to actually do that. Most I've seen are people saying that 1 pirated copy != 1 lost sale. That is also sort of weird because I didn't get that at all from Blow's comments. I interpreted it more like, "Hey people who pirated: If you want to help us continue to create games of this size and scope, please consider buying it."
Chairmanchuck
Member
I doubt that a lot of people who pirate the game are even playing it. There are a lot of "download collectors" out there, that just download the newest game to have it.
Often the same people who have a "complete" rom collection on their PC, without playing the game or the newest movies without watching any of them.
What I dont actually get is why so many people here on GAF actually are that much against piracy itself, considering people outside the US on GAF can somehow watch the newest anime (without having crunchyroll accounts) or newest TV shows hours after they aired in the US.
I dont want to be a pirate apologist, but usually on GAF when its not about games, piracy is pretty common. Just check the manga and anime threads e.g.
If you want players to not pirate your games, here are your options:
a) Use some excessive DRM that hurts your paying customers more than the pirates
b) Create a service that relies on always online and constant updates (LoL, mmo's, PoE, D3, etc)
c) Not release the game at all on pc(?)
Since not releasing a game on pc will NOT give you more sales (not many people will buy a PS4/Bone just for The Witness), you will actually *gain* sales by releasing the game on pc.
Therefore, it is pointless to talk about how much piracy is "Hurting" your game, since at the end of the day, those consumers decided to not buy your product. Whether they pirate it or not is not relevant to your financial state.
So: I think in the long run, Witness PC sales alone will be enough if the game is good. Games with good buzz, good reviews will get high sales, high piracy is usually just a side effect of a game being good/well known/sought for.
a) Use some excessive DRM that hurts your paying customers more than the pirates
b) Create a service that relies on always online and constant updates (LoL, mmo's, PoE, D3, etc)
c) Not release the game at all on pc(?)
Since not releasing a game on pc will NOT give you more sales (not many people will buy a PS4/Bone just for The Witness), you will actually *gain* sales by releasing the game on pc.
Therefore, it is pointless to talk about how much piracy is "Hurting" your game, since at the end of the day, those consumers decided to not buy your product. Whether they pirate it or not is not relevant to your financial state.
So: I think in the long run, Witness PC sales alone will be enough if the game is good. Games with good buzz, good reviews will get high sales, high piracy is usually just a side effect of a game being good/well known/sought for.
Yeah I guess it's alright steal and not use it
The thing that's really bothering me about this thread is people blaming the creator for people pirating his game. You're effectively victim blaming, it's not his fault that people stole his game.
And if you actually read the tweets he sent he wasn't surprised, or even that angry, he basically just said that lots of people are pirating The Witness and he'd like people to pay for it so he could keep making more games.
And if you actually read the tweets he sent he wasn't surprised, or even that angry, he basically just said that lots of people are pirating The Witness and he'd like people to pay for it so he could keep making more games.
Why will people buy the last assassin's creed at 60 bucks but won't buy this game at 40? This is a better game.
Future PhaZe
Member
definitely doesn't help with steam taking 30% of profits either...
Chairmanchuck
Member
Yeah I guess it's alright steal and not use it
What I want to say is that 1 download does not mean 1 lost sale.
Doesn't matter. It's not yours don't download it
Zen_Arcade
Banned
That doesn't really matter. You're still taking something that you shouldn't have.
chicko1983
Member
I'm not a pirate but I have been put off this game because of the apparent motion sickness. I watched a few YouTube's and started feeling queasy
Steve Youngblood
Member
Just to be clear, I think the price argument is being tackled in a couple of different ways. I'm going to exaggerate the tone a bit to make my point, but here goes.
Perspective 1: $40!? Who does this clown think he is!? Nobody's going to pay that much for an indie puzzle game. Of course people are pirating it! It should be cheaper!
Perspective 2: I wonder if the relatively high price point is driving people that might otherwise bite at a pricepoint like $20 to opt to pirate it instead.
The former is not a good post. The latter -- though I might not agree with it -- is a reasonable consideration.
Perspective 1: $40!? Who does this clown think he is!? Nobody's going to pay that much for an indie puzzle game. Of course people are pirating it! It should be cheaper!
Perspective 2: I wonder if the relatively high price point is driving people that might otherwise bite at a pricepoint like $20 to opt to pirate it instead.
The former is not a good post. The latter -- though I might not agree with it -- is a reasonable consideration.
And girls shouldn't wear short skirts because rape occurs? You are stating a similar thing. Stop victim blaming. You are saying because a game is priced higher than expected, then it is ok for someone to steal it?
Atraveller
Banned
Games being pirated wasn't unique to him, people don't like their work getting no stolen, I get it, but unfortunately piracy is such a common occurrence it's almost a natural part of a game's release. Did he decide to start working in the industry and expected to see his games not being pirated? Focus on something else that could really help sell his game I say.
Kurt Russell
Member
That's pretty obvious, but it doesn't have anything to do with Chairmanchuck's point...
Huh? What are you trying to say here, anyway? If you think that steam is the only platform that takes parts of the profits(Or even that 30% is a particularly high take), then I just don't know what to say.
Steve Youngblood
Member
It's an expression of disappointment done in 140 characters or less. I would be agreeing with you if he published a lengthy open letter announcing that he was considering quitting PC games development due to this piracy problem that is unique only to his games.
Acerac
Banned
Blow has that kind of money? I thought he invested pretty much everything in to The Witness.
There no valid point when comes to theft.
You are piece of shit and you should go to jail for that.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Of course. I am not saying its not a shitty thing to do. But usually people in those threads say that 1 download means a lost sale and thats not true.
Go to jail for pirating something? If you steal a CD you also wont go to jail (at least not in Germany).
MutonCommander
Banned
Is this kind of comment really necessary? You feel like you contributed something meaningful to this discussion?
joecanada
Member
Nah I'm not saying that. Just reminded me of that episode and of the music industry. A lot of artists said the music industry would die but it didn't even come close. Blow though he may lose his shirt on this deal which would be a pity. The industry will survive piracy but doesn't mean there's no victims
pixelation
Member
Thinking the same thing...
derExperte
Member
You're not alone, I got over it after half an hour but they're working on stuff like a FOV slider and an aiming dot.
Well you will in the US. Three Strikes and YOUUUUUU'RE OUT. At least that CAN happen.
Benzychenz
Member
I can understand why. It's priced higher than I'm willing to pay for a digital game.
Though I'm waiting for a physical release rather than pirating
Though I'm waiting for a physical release rather than pirating
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I know I'm a billion pages late, but it blows my mind that people still say/think this stupid shit. They never sued anyone outside of Napster.
Metallica demanded Napster ban users who were sharing their music, Napster people lied and said they couldn't track such information, Metallica tracked such information and showed up to court with a list of users to prove Napster was full of shit. That's it. They never sued ANY of those people.
RipperGrim
Member
On one hand I totally get why devs get pissed about piracy, some twat helps themselves to something you've literally spent years creating and they don't reimburse you in any way? Not to mention some of them are probably very vocal about criticism towards the game which is even more obnoxious. I don't believe it's free advertising either, just a bunch of bullshit said by people who pirate to try and make it look good. Who's it advertising to? The people who already got it for free? You think their friends are gona see the game and instead of asking them to copy the game for them they are going to go out and buy it? Also the reason why anyone would download a game is because of the game's own advertising, they are just not buying like a normal consumer would.
Now on the other hand I do believe piracy is blamed way too much for failures, even used as an excuse for shitty ports (Which ironically kills sales on PC far more than piracy ever could) while ignoring the massive financial successes there are in the PC market, people are just clever about how to market it and also actually treat PC gamers like normal fucking consumers (Fuck you Warner), they get their expectations right and bam, turn out a profit. $40 for a puzzle game is a hard sell to make but I think there's definitely a niche for it but really expectations need to be reasonable.
So piracy probably has little effect on overall sales but it's still a shitty thing to do, it's like being a fat leech that contributes fuckall to the industry. If things like Denuvo puts a stop to it without affecting paying customers (No modding straight up sucks) then why not? The only ones who will be upset are the pirates lol.
Now on the other hand I do believe piracy is blamed way too much for failures, even used as an excuse for shitty ports (Which ironically kills sales on PC far more than piracy ever could) while ignoring the massive financial successes there are in the PC market, people are just clever about how to market it and also actually treat PC gamers like normal fucking consumers (Fuck you Warner), they get their expectations right and bam, turn out a profit. $40 for a puzzle game is a hard sell to make but I think there's definitely a niche for it but really expectations need to be reasonable.
So piracy probably has little effect on overall sales but it's still a shitty thing to do, it's like being a fat leech that contributes fuckall to the industry. If things like Denuvo puts a stop to it without affecting paying customers (No modding straight up sucks) then why not? The only ones who will be upset are the pirates lol.
Try to steal 1753 cds. And well see if are going to jail or not
SliChillax
Member
Not that I support piracy but I believe in the theory that whoever pirates the game wont buy it in the first place anyway even if they had the money so it shouldn't count as a lost sale.
If someone hands you a free cd you wont get arrested but the guy that sold you those stolen free CD's will.
Try to steal 1753 cds. And well see if are going to jail or not
If someone hands you a free cd you wont get arrested but the guy that sold you those stolen free CD's will.
joecanada
Member
Lol actually that's pretty bad security that Metallica people could see who downloaded their music
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
He's already patched it several times since release. He bought a cart load of computer hardware to figure out how to solve bugs people were experiencing.
He tweeted 3 times and you believe that is evidence that his "focus" is in the wrong place.
Doesn't your position sound ridiculous when it's laid out that way?
MonorailCat
Member
Try to steal 1753 cds. And well see if are going to jail or not
You still won't go to jail (in germany)
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