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[Arthea]

Just to be clear, I think the price argument is being tackled in a couple of different ways. I'm going to exaggerate the tone a bit to make my point, but here goes.

Perspective 1: $40!? Who does this clown think he is!? Nobody's going to pay that much for an indie puzzle game. Of course people are pirating it! It should be cheaper!

Perspective 2: I wonder if the relatively high price point is driving people that might otherwise bite at a pricepoint like $20 to opt to pirate it instead.

The former is not a good post. The latter -- though I might not agree with it -- is a reasonable consideration.

nah, it's about attitude, I think the Witness is too expensive, but I'm not going to pirate it, I have games that will last me for couple of lifetimes, games I bought, why would I go out of my way to pirate something? And that's not only me, that's your usual average PC gamer.
I don't pretend to know exactly why people pirate games, especially on PC, where you can get hundreds of games cheap. But knowing situation I can only assume they just like pirating, they can't be sales lost, at least most of them. They have money for PCs and internet, meaning they can afford literally any game on PC if they are willing to wait some with more expensive ones.

 

[FATALITY]

Not that I support piracy but I believe in the theory that whoever pirates the game wont buy it in the first place anyway even if they had the money so it shouldn't count as a lost sale.

Build a $1999 pc and don't have money to buy games? Lol this excuse is so shitty

 

[Atraveller]

He's already patched it several times since release. He bought a cart load of computer hardware to figure out how to solve bugs people were experiencing.

He tweeted 3 times and you believe that is evidence that his "focus" is in the wrong place.

Doesn't your position sound ridiculous when it's laid out that way?

Good for him then.

 

[Andrew Korenchkin]

Fuck.........WTF?

For that matter, I think Jonathan Blow is a pretentious douche bag and Braid was absolute garbage, but pirating all of his hard work for seven fucking years? What the hell is wrong with people?

 

[Mit-]

I feel like drawing attention to this stuff is counterproductive.

Previously I did not know there was an easy to pirate version of The Witness out there already. I mean, it's to be assumed that most games will be cracked and pirated pretty quick, but some games have better DRM than others.

Now myself, and millions of other people who have seen articles about his tweet, are aware that they can easily obtain and play The Witness for free by hitting up their favorite torrenting website.

I don't think it's ever worth acknowledging piracy.

EDIT: especially since its impact on sales is negligible, especially when you realize every pirated copy does not equate to a lost sale.

 

[Shantom]

Build a $1999 pc and don't have money to buy games? Lol this excuse is so shitty

Why do you assume pirates have a $2000 PC?

 

[joecanada]

Build a $1999 pc and don't have money to buy games? Lol this excuse is so shitty

No there's a lot more to it than that. You could have a ton of money but just not want to buy something. It's like if you thought one Justin Bieber song was good but you'd never buy the album, but you may download that song. Or you may just listen to it on the radio or something. But there was never intent to buy it. It's not a lost sale per se

 

[Spirited]

Build a $1999 pc and don't have money to buy games? Lol this excuse is so shitty

ummh, do you really have to use "myths" like that computers cost $2k?
I think you could get your point across well without this blunt way of arguing with people that often seem to spew out misconceptions.

 

[Kurt Russell]

There no valid point when comes to theft.
You are piece of shit and you should go to jail for that.

The thing is that neither Chairmanchuck nor me were defending pirates. I'm pretty sure most of us can agree with the fact that pirates suck, and a ton of people have expressed that point of view already.
Also, saying "You are a piece of shit and you should go to jail for that" sounds like you think that Chairman or me are pirates (since you aren't saying "pirates are a piece of sh** and should go to jail for pirating stuff")

Just saying.

 

[Mit-]

No there's a lot more to it than that. You could have a ton of money but just not want to buy something. It's like if you thought one Justin Bieber song was good but you'd never buy the album, but you may download that song. Or you may just listen to it on the radio or something. But there was never intent to buy it. It's not a lost sale per se

Or you're a cheap piece of shit who doesn't give a fuck. Which still means that their pirated copy does not equate to a lost sale.

 

[SliChillax]

Build a $1999 pc and don't have money to buy games? Lol this excuse is so shitty

As I said I don't support piracy and I wasn't trying to justify anything, just saying that having pirated the game shouldn't count as a lost sale but I agree that it's still wrong. Also what does a $2000 pc have to do with it? What a dumb argument. I'm sure you don't need a $2000 pc to play The Witness or any other game.

 

[Jigorath]

Build a $1999 pc and don't have money to buy games? Lol this excuse is so shitty

Thought this myth would have died already.

 

[Rad-]

I feel like drawing attention to this stuff is counterproductive.

Previously I did not know there was an easy to pirate version of The Witness out there already. I mean, it's to be assumed that most games will be cracked and pirated pretty quick, but some games have better DRM than others.

Now myself, and millions of other people who have seen articles about his tweet, are aware that they can easily obtain and play The Witness for free by hitting up their favorite torrenting website.

I don't think it's ever worth acknowledging piracy.

EDIT: especially since its impact on sales is negligible, especially when you realize every pirated copy does not equate to a lost sale.

I came to post this. I understand he is disappointed at the amount of piracy but more than likely these tweets will just lead to more piracy.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Huh? What are you trying to say here, anyway? If you think that steam is the only platform that takes parts of the profits(Or even that 30% is a particularly high take), then I just don't know what to say.

I think a virtual monopoly of a storefront taking 30% is a problem for the industry yes

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Steam sales say otherwise. 40$ is insane for such a game. If it was 5$ on a steam sale it would net much more profit despite the low price.

Luckily there are a lot of devs who respect our money and don't charge BS amounts.

This is a really bad post.

 

[Corpekata]

ummh, do you really have to use "myths" like that computers cost $2k?
I think you could get your point across well without this blunt way of arguing with people that often seem to spew out misconceptions.

He doesn't care. A lot of the people acting like that in this thread just want to rage against the evil PC gamers.

 

[WaterAstro]

I think that his approach would be to release exclusively on console where pirating is non-existent or difficult, then release on PC some time later at a lower price after console gaming pays the premium price.

I think it's really silly to completely dismiss piracy as an issue.

Unless you are unhappy with how many copies you are selling. Which I thought was the root of the problem here.

If you price it at half the price, you immediately "lose" half of the sales you would have made in terms of revenue.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

You still won't go to jail (in germany)

Yeah. If you steal that much, that means you actually are psychologically sick, court will order you to go to a psychologist and pay the damages you have done.

On another note, more like a question:
Why is it, that whenever its about piracy in Gaming-threads, people paint pirates as the worst, but piracy is kinda tolerated on GAF, when its about tv-shows. I get that this is also a forum where gaming devs and publishers talk to each other.
But like I pointed out in my previous post: People here talk about the newest anime-episodes (legally pirating an anime or a game wouldnt make a difference, morally maybe), tv-show episodes (when they dont have means to actually have watched the episodes besides downloading) etc.
I mean even in OT usually when there is a piracy thread, when some artists says his album was pirated and thats why it failed, most people actually go with the "1 download doesnt mean 1 lost sale".

 

[Jacksinthe]

If you want players to not pirate your games, here are your options:

a) Use some excessive DRM that hurts your paying customers more than the pirates
b) Create a service that relies on always online and constant updates (LoL, mmo's, PoE, D3, etc)
c) Not release the game at all on pc(?)

Since not releasing a game on pc will NOT give you more sales (not many people will buy a PS4/Bone just for The Witness), you will actually *gain* sales by releasing the game on pc.

Therefore, it is pointless to talk about how much piracy is "Hurting" your game, since at the end of the day, those consumers decided to not buy your product. Whether they pirate it or not is not relevant to your financial state.

So: I think in the long run, Witness PC sales alone will be enough if the game is good. Games with good buzz, good reviews will get high sales, high piracy is usually just a side effect of a game being good/well known/sought for.

Completely misses that you don't just snap your fingers and have a port to different hardware for nothing.

Do you not know it costs money to develop for EACH platform? More total sales but there is a VERY strong possibility porting to X Platform can COST a developer money if the sales on that one platform don't support the cost of development on that one platform.

You don't know how this works, apparently.

 

[Alienous]

Steam sales say otherwise. 40$ is insane for such a game. If it was 5$ on a steam sale it would net much more profit despite the low price.

Luckily there are a lot of devs who respect our money and don't charge BS amounts.

Eh.

No. I don't think so.

For example, if you imagine that everyone who bought the game would also buy it at $5 then you would need 7 additional people per buyer to make-up what would be gained at $40.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Steam sales say otherwise. 40$ is insane for such a game. If it was 5$ on a steam sale it would net much more profit despite the low price.

Luckily there are a lot of devs who respect our money and don't charge BS amounts.

I agree in so far that I'm not gonna pay $40 and will wait for a sale or a Humble Bundle, but it's their decision what to charge. $60 for Evolve or Battlefront is much more egregious.

It's still no excuse to pirate it.

 

[Lanrutcon]

I came to post this. I understand he is disappointed at the amount of piracy but more than likely these tweets will just lead to more piracy.

Look, I hate to tell you this: but anyone looking for an illegal game can find it in 3 clicks or less with google. Hell, anyone who has no fucking idea how to pirate shit can figure it out with google.

My goddamn 65 year old father who has never owned a smart device of any kind figured that shit out in a week the moment he got a desktop. The man has trouble finding his My Documents folder.

 

[Steel]

I think a virtual monopoly of a storefront taking 30% is a problem for the industry yes

Do you have any idea how much money is taken out by gamestop+sony+shipping? We had an entire thread about this. It's about 70%. The digital front for sony is about 30%(which is "a virtual monopoly" as well). What are you even saying?

 

[Jacksinthe]

Why is that? There have been many cases where devs have made much more money on steam sales than when they were charging 4x the price.

Has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with CONDITIONING - which has led MANY developers to the race to the bottom.

 

[Kurt Russell]

Steam sales say otherwise. 40$ is insane for such a game. If it was 5$ on a steam sale it would net much more profit despite the low price.

Luckily there are a lot of devs who respect our money and don't charge BS amounts.

Why? I mean, from what I read the game offers a ton of content. Why would he need to charge only $5 when he's been working on it for a long time and the content in offer is so much? I really don't get your point.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Steam sales say otherwise. 40$ is insane for such a game. If it was 5$ on a steam sale it would net much more profit despite the low price.

Luckily there are a lot of devs who respect our money and don't charge BS amounts.

What would be a non-BS price for this game?

 

[derwalde]

Victim blaming?

 

[KHlover]

Yeah. If you steal that much, that means you actually are psychologically sick, court will order you to go to a psychologist and pay the damages you have done.

On another note, more like a question:
Why is it, that whenever its about piracy in Gaming-threads, people paint pirates as the worst, but piracy is kinda tolerated on GAF, when its about tv-shows. I get that this is also a forum where gaming devs and publishers talk to each other.
But like I pointed out in my previous post: People here talk about the newest anime-episodes (legally pirating an anime or a game wouldnt make a difference, morally maybe), tv-show episodes (when they dont have means to actually have watched the episodes besides downloading) etc.
I mean even in OT usually when there is a piracy thread, when some artists says his album was pirated and thats why it failed, most people actually go with the "1 download doesnt mean 1 lost sale".

1.) Two different subsets of people
2.) Way easier to justify to yourself when there's no legal way to get that content otherwise*. (See DB Super)

* Also the bigger anime usually release at the same time in the US (subbed) and Japan, people could just use crunchyroll or funimation.

 

[Rad-]

Look, I hate to tell you this: but anyone looking for an illegal game can find it in 3 clicks or less with google. Hell, anyone who has no fucking idea how to pirate shit can figure it out with google.

My goddamn 65 year old father who has never owned a smart device of any kind figured that shit out in a week the moment he got a desktop. The man has trouble finding his My Documents folder.

It's not whether people can find it or not, google finds pretty much everything. It's about shouting that your game has been cracked already.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I think a virtual monopoly of a storefront taking 30% is a problem for the industry yes

You know for digital sales Sony and MS also take the exact 30% that Steam takes, do you?

 

[THRILLH0]

lmao @ the victim blaming and concern trolling in here.

Hey Mr. Blow.

1 pirated != 1 sale lost.

Hey kenzodielocke,

Where the fuck did he say that?

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

20$ standard price, 5-10$ on sale. This I could justify.

And, what are you basing this on? Is your number based on how much the game cost to make and how many copies you think you can sell, or is it a random number you pulled out of the air?

 

[Chairmanchuck]

1.) Two different subsets of people
2.) Way easier to justify to yourself when there's no legal way to get that content otherwise*. (See DB Super)

* Also the bigger anime usually release at the same time in the US (subbed) and Japan, people could also just use crunchyroll or funimation.

Its not just about anime. People read manga on some shady manga sites nowadays. I can tell you in germany a lot of people use an "illegal" streamingsite to watch the newest episodes of their favorite shows.

And I am sure people can actually wait till these come out on DVD/Bluray or on TV regarding quite popular anime. I can tell you Attack on Titan Season 2, if it wouldnt air on crunchyroll or funimation, would be heavily talked about here on GAF and you know that will certainly be licenced in the west.

I am also not exactly sure whether its different subsets of people. I really think that, especially on GAF to some/lot (dont know, I am just basing this on my experience), piracy of one medium is not as bad as piracy of another.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Do you have any idea how much money is taken out by gamestop+sony+shipping? We had an entire thread about this. It's about 70%. The digital front for sony is about 30%(which is "a virtual monopoly" as well). What are you even saying?

your voicing of the current margins really has nothing to do with refuting my point lol

anyway this is derailing the thread so I'll leave it at that

 

[SliChillax]

Hey kenzodielocke,

Where the fuck did he say that?

He clearly said that they wont be able to afford making another game if people pirate the game which literally means that piracy = lost sale.

 

[sheamus]

other then steam what DRM is the witness using

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Concentrate on supporting the people who did pay for it. $40 is too much in my opinion but I'll just wait for the Summer steam sale.

 

[SummitAve]

It is an indie game. I can't justify paying the AAA equivalent price on an indie game no matter how fun it may be. I have bought various indie games at the 5-20$ price points.

You are narrow minded. Your preconceived notions of indie and AAA games are wrong.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Steam sales say otherwise. 40$ is insane for such a game. If it was 5$ on a steam sale it would net much more profit despite the low price.

Luckily there are a lot of devs who respect our money and don't charge BS amounts.

It's a shame you want developers to respect your money, yet you clearly don't value their work.

This is a really bad post.

Maybe even the worst one.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Instead of complaining about piracy I'd pay for Denuvo. I mean, at least if I wanted to take a pro-active and effective approach to piracy I felt could impact my future.

Turns out that if you go outside in the rain without an umbrella nobody cares if your hair gets wet, nor are they particularly surprised.

 

[Alienous]

It is an indie game. I can't justify paying the AAA equivalent price on an indie game no matter how fun it may be. I have bought various indie games at the 5-20$ price points.

Well, that's your cut-off.

You're stating it like it's some universal golden rule.

 

[icespide]

Steam sales say otherwise. 40$ is insane for such a game. If it was 5$ on a steam sale it would net much more profit despite the low price.

Luckily there are a lot of devs who respect our money and don't charge BS amounts.

awful post, man this thread is depressing

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

Build a $1999 pc and don't have money to buy games? Lol this excuse is so shitty

this argument is still around? what is this, 2004?

i'm not defending piracy, i think it's awful, but this post is just... dang. really, really bad.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Still relevant:
https://youtu.be/en9DBTPsjVo

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Why is that? There have been many cases where devs have made much more money on steam sales than when they were charging 4x the price.

Sales often come in waves. Yes, there are people out there that are only going to pay $5 for this game, but they can still do that later when the price drops. I understand that maybe some people take one glance at a game and decide right then and there whether it's worth buying and may never take a second glance down the road that you'd be losing with an unattractive initial offer. Or that the game may not hold broader interest over time (i.e. six months from now people may only vaguely remember "that one indie game" as it disappears from consumer consciousness).

But for the most part, unless this is a title that is going to be completely supplanted by something else, there's going to still be a market down the road. Some people will buy stuff at full price on day one. Some people may only buy if they can score something like a GMG 25% off coupon. Some people may bite six months down the road when the price is officially cut (I don't actually know when that will be). Some people may only buy once it's down to $5 as part of a holiday sale. Some may only buy as part of a Humble Bundle. Some may never buy anyway opting to pirate no matter the price.

But it doesn't make sense to ignore the revenue from the initial, higher MSRP just to chase the wave 2, 3, and 4 price drop crowd immediately. You price it at $5 now and you're losing out on (25,000 * $35) of revenue in terms of the customers that have already bought at $40 (and yes, I know I'm ignoring Valve's cut here). The value customers will still be there later.

 

[Lulubop]

Build a $1999 pc and don't have money to buy games? Lol this excuse is so shitty

It used to be 3K!

I'm glad pcs are getting cheaper these days

 

[THRILLH0]

He clearly said that they wont be able to afford making another game if people pirate the game which literally means that piracy = lost sale.

He never suggested it was 1:1

 

[Chairmanchuck]

awful post, man this thread is depressing

He is sadly not alone with this. Whether its Steam/PC, PS4 or Xbox One. You hear either
"Wait for a steam sale where it costs a buck."
"Wait for it to be free on PS+"
"Wont pay more than 5$ for an indie-title."

 

[BennyBlanco]

Still relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up863eQKGUI

 

[Lanrutcon]

Instead of complaining about piracy I'd pay for Denuvo. I mean, at least if I wanted to take a pro-active and effective approach to piracy I felt could impact my future.

Turns out that if you go outside in the rain without an umbrella nobody cares if your hair gets wet, nor are they particularly surprised.

But seriously: the cost of Denuvo is probably insanely prohibitive unless you're selling hundreds of thousands of copies.