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The Witness is being heavily pirated. J. Blow says piracy could impact his future.
- Thread starter Raylan
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23K? Yeesh, that's not that great. Hopefully it has legs.
This piracy thing pisses me off so much.
Already Torn
Banned
I feel like I'm talking to the bad military guy in Avatar.
That's not accurate. Steam Spy takes days to populate due to the sampling method they use.
Night Angel
Member
Thinking pirates/thieves are scum is a horrible attitude to have? I'd say it's pretty accurate.
The game sold more than 23k copies on PC. We don't have access to reliable Steam sales numbers for this game yet.
UncleSporky
Member
You will find the same number of sources as you can find when big publishers report a loss in specific dollar amounts due to piracy.
People keep saying $40 isn't too much as if it's a fact. It's not too much for you personally, but considering how often that price point has been brought up in the past week, it is a lot for many people. Most games get individual comments or threads here and there about pricing, for The Witness pricing has been a major talking point. Again, $40 isn't too much for you personally, but that's not universal fact that somehow applies for everyone. Surely everyone can see that?
The Witness should be fine in the long run though. It's just scary to see only 20-30k sales early on with that budget. Word of mouth has been mostly positive (though it definitely isn't all positive, plenty of negative opinions and at Steam it's currently at 84% positive, 16% negative) so while it will probably quickly drop out of top 10 sellers like most games do, a good quality game should keep selling for years to come. He just has to be smart about discounts. Gradual steps and maybe like 40-50% off by next Christmas. Engage with the players who want to give you money, don't waste time with the people who don't.
The Witness should be fine in the long run though. It's just scary to see only 20-30k sales early on with that budget. Word of mouth has been mostly positive (though it definitely isn't all positive, plenty of negative opinions and at Steam it's currently at 84% positive, 16% negative) so while it will probably quickly drop out of top 10 sellers like most games do, a good quality game should keep selling for years to come. He just has to be smart about discounts. Gradual steps and maybe like 40-50% off by next Christmas. Engage with the players who want to give you money, don't waste time with the people who don't.
Well for one, don't think that number is really accurate yet on Steamspy. And two the game will have long legs like most on Steam.
CecilRousso
Member
Here's a good post by Stumpakow, regarding what he should or shouldn't have priced the game at:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=193610072&postcount=19365
Definitely worth reading, for those who think $20 price is the simple answer to more success.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=193610072&postcount=19365
Definitely worth reading, for those who think $20 price is the simple answer to more success.
Also, regarding price, 40 bucks is what I consider a fair price for a new game (AAA or not). Usually with AAA prices I wait for them to get in that range (if it's a multiplayer title I might go to 50).
Indie or not my rule is the same so 40 dollars is more than fair for The Witness. But then again, I'm not putting indie and AAA in different bags price wise. It's all games after all.
Indie or not my rule is the same so 40 dollars is more than fair for The Witness. But then again, I'm not putting indie and AAA in different bags price wise. It's all games after all.
I would be getting paid for my work, and Jonathan Blow is getting paid for his work...read the thread? It's just not productive at all to get worked up about PC piracy.
aGuyInaBearSuit
Member
And people wonder why things like DRM are becoming more prevalent.
Nor the DRM free offerings.
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
No. It's really more a factor of the amount of quality games that exist at low price points today. So much supply means that the price has to come down. Back in the 16-bit era, I was totally willing to shell out $70 for Street Fighter 2, but I wouldn't pay more than $5 for it today.
Burger
Member
That puts the onus on the consumer to ask for a refund, fill out a form.
It's like every "Free for X Days!" but will charge your credit card if you forget (which they trust you will).
Also you cannot repeatedly refund games, that would fall into the Abuse clause. Refunds are not to be used to demo game after game, but merely "reduce" the risk you take when purchasing a title.
It's kind of my issue. I get it, 700 puzzles. It looks pretty. 70 hours length. Took years to develop, blood sweat and tears etc. From the stuff I've watched (GB QL, you tube videos, reviews) it looks like something that would satisfy the same itch a book of logic puzzles or sudoku or crosswords or whatever would fill. If I want to hurt my brain there are a lot of ways I can do it for a lot less and I can bring that with me to do on a lunch break or in bed before I go to sleep or whatever. Were it $15-20 it would be in impulse buy zone and I'd probably have bought it based on the looks alone.
That's not to say it isn't WORTH $40, or he shouldn't be charging that. Just the reason I'm not buying it. Maybe a cheaper iPad version in the future would hook me.
Well shit.
If Blow's reasoning behind that isn't conducting some kind of social experiment to satisfy your curiosity that's a fuck-up. Convenience plays a role in piracy much like price does. A high price and a lack of security measures is tantamount to giving your game away for some people.
Crysis is one of the best selling PC games and it was pirated to hell and back, what is your point?
MarineMountie
Member
Deflecting.
Xamtheking
Member
He's probably still going to make bank
FloorEssence
Neo Member
1. Steamspy numbers aren't accurate for the first days after release, wait a week for actual figures, so if idiots could stop quoting it that would be great.
2. Every new release big game goes straight to the top of piracy charts, it doesn't indicate how much is actually being pirated nor how much are being taken away from sales, there are literally no figures.
2. Every new release big game goes straight to the top of piracy charts, it doesn't indicate how much is actually being pirated nor how much are being taken away from sales, there are literally no figures.
I think a lot of people are also leaping to the conclusion that people who pirate also have the ability to purchase the game in the first place.
Hasn't it been stated by multiple developers that they see regions where games aren't widely available also be the hotspots for piracy?
Hasn't it been stated by multiple developers that they see regions where games aren't widely available also be the hotspots for piracy?
Maintenance
Member
Too late to bring mobile into this, the thread is already full on PC hating / delay PC release / don't release for PC, as if game sharing on consoles does not exist.
entremet
Member
Games aren't commodities, though.
That comparison doesn't make sense,
They're all distinct items. There's a difference between Angry Birds and Portal 2, for example.
demosthenes
Member
Same. It's infuriating.
23k this early is pretty good. His break even is going to be 225k full priced copies on Steam and PSN combined.
Well clearly with your ONE example that ignores the entire history of PC games devs should drop the platform entirely.
stargateheaven
Member
Umm..
look at games like the sims series. permanently on torrent sites, very popular. but one of the best selling series of all time.
HammerOfThor
Member
Piracy is wrong, and it sucks.
But lets be honest if all those pirates didn't pirate it wouldnt instantly turn into a sale from each one.
But lets be honest if all those pirates didn't pirate it wouldnt instantly turn into a sale from each one.
Its a Niche puzzle game at the end of the day (was he really expecting mega sales figures), yes it's high price may have put people trying the game out. You also have to look at the number of other PC games released the last few weeks, ie Tomb Raider, Xcom2 etc, as well as the amount of backlog games bought in Sales.
Piracy is wrong, but Braid was a cult hit, does not mean you are going to have a hit with you next game no matter how good it is. Blaming in on piracy is just a excuse. People just wait for sales unless its a multiplayer focused game, the latest Hipster game, or a big multi-format release.
Would Portal of been a success if it was not from Valve ?. How many of the Talos Principles sales are from it being on Sale cheap somewhere (at least 50% I reckon)
Piracy is wrong, but Braid was a cult hit, does not mean you are going to have a hit with you next game no matter how good it is. Blaming in on piracy is just a excuse. People just wait for sales unless its a multiplayer focused game, the latest Hipster game, or a big multi-format release.
Would Portal of been a success if it was not from Valve ?. How many of the Talos Principles sales are from it being on Sale cheap somewhere (at least 50% I reckon)
Sectorseven
Member
It's a write off.
They just write it off.
They just write it off.
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
There's a difference between Braveheart and Weird Science on BluRay as well, but I'm not paying more than $5 for either one.
MakeshiftChef
Member
And just how many of those "reviews" are negative due solely to the price of the game?
Already Torn
Banned
Well maybe those scumbags should find a way to pay for it regardless. No excuses.
Obviously not, unless the pirated it or got it as a gift haha
You could sell the game for a buck and throw in a free handy j and people would still pirate it. Some people are so against paying for any piece of media for whatever reason.
Also the game's genre really shouldn't matter if it delivers on content. If the game was like five hours, I definitely think $40 would be way too much. But many reviews have said the game is significantly longer than that and worth the price tag. Just because you can buy a match three game for a buck on your phone doesn't mean all puzzle games should cost that price.
Also the game's genre really shouldn't matter if it delivers on content. If the game was like five hours, I definitely think $40 would be way too much. But many reviews have said the game is significantly longer than that and worth the price tag. Just because you can buy a match three game for a buck on your phone doesn't mean all puzzle games should cost that price.
The creator sets the price, the market determines the value. I think it's pretty clear the market thinks the price is too high. Perceived value has nothing to do with the cost of making something, and it's very hard to control.
It's more a function of PR. The price should have been set and revealed earlier in the process so an effort could have been made to convince the public of the appropriateness of that price point. Instead, secrecy surrounded the game and the price was revealed like a week or so before release causing a form of sticker shock.
People love to rag on the PR and marketing people, but this is what they do ... And, when they're good at it, you feel good about spending $60 for a 10 hour game.
It's more a function of PR. The price should have been set and revealed earlier in the process so an effort could have been made to convince the public of the appropriateness of that price point. Instead, secrecy surrounded the game and the price was revealed like a week or so before release causing a form of sticker shock.
People love to rag on the PR and marketing people, but this is what they do ... And, when they're good at it, you feel good about spending $60 for a 10 hour game.
Wow, I must have had a terrible impression of this game as an outsider that casually knows of it.
I was expecting a less than 10 hour indie experience. I assume many presumably might be pirating it because they see such a huge price tag for something that is perceived to be very light on content.
I am quite impressed that this game isn't actually a one-sitting type of title, as I honestly assumed it was.
Aside from piracy, which sucks, I can see the ones arguing about the price having apoint..
It's not too much money for the content, no. But we live in a world where games like this (Puzzle games, Indie Games) haven't cost that much for a rather long time. Talos is there with the price, but it also was on sale several times to reach 500k.
It seems to me, we just reached a point with Indie games where 20-30$ are accepted by gamers. They get more expensive over the years and that is an adjustment the consumer has to make.
Binding of Isaac was at 5$ and reduced to 1$ during sales - Rebirth is at 15$. For the average buyer, they offer a similar package, but one cost three times the other.
40$ Indie games will become more normal at some point and the people complaining about the price will be way less vocal than now.
I also don't see the Witness failing. It's a game that thrives through word of mouth and that has to be generated first. And people seem to have to play through more of it to become involved enough to market it towards other people. It's just not a title that has most of its sales in its first week. Wait how the sales are looking after the summer sale.
I didn't buy it yet, but I have so many games in my backlog that I most likely would first start it when it was on sale several times. So I'll wait and see how much it costs when I have the time to play it and buy it then.
It's not too much money for the content, no. But we live in a world where games like this (Puzzle games, Indie Games) haven't cost that much for a rather long time. Talos is there with the price, but it also was on sale several times to reach 500k.
It seems to me, we just reached a point with Indie games where 20-30$ are accepted by gamers. They get more expensive over the years and that is an adjustment the consumer has to make.
Binding of Isaac was at 5$ and reduced to 1$ during sales - Rebirth is at 15$. For the average buyer, they offer a similar package, but one cost three times the other.
40$ Indie games will become more normal at some point and the people complaining about the price will be way less vocal than now.
I also don't see the Witness failing. It's a game that thrives through word of mouth and that has to be generated first. And people seem to have to play through more of it to become involved enough to market it towards other people. It's just not a title that has most of its sales in its first week. Wait how the sales are looking after the summer sale.
I didn't buy it yet, but I have so many games in my backlog that I most likely would first start it when it was on sale several times. So I'll wait and see how much it costs when I have the time to play it and buy it then.
PlatypusDude
Member
Those are user reviews though, and half of those are from people who have less than 2 hours recorded in the game and are just complaining about the game being $40.
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