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[MasterCornholio]

Here's the thing. There's a reason phones can do it pretty much every year, while consoles now need to wait 7 or 8. Space and tech.

Tech is pretty obvious. People don't want to spend $500-$600 on a console every 3 years and barely get a jump in tech. It works for Pro consoles because you're still selling the base model and, at best, 25% of new console purchases will be for the Pro model. To start saying that every 3 years will be the "new gen" will not only disappoint gamers in terms of the perceived leap, but you'd basically abandon those who bought your last console by year 4. It'll also start confusing more casual gamers who won't know what gen is what. Especially with Xbox's confusing names.

Phones on the other hand, are usually subsidized by the phone companies because they make the real money off of the cell service, not the HW or the games sold on that HW. Or you can just add a new phone to your plan and pay like $20 extra a month, and then upgrade to the next one, and just keep paying that extra monthly fee. People barely think about it because it's not one huge sum.

Space. Consoles are a space hog in terms of shelf and warehouse space. Retailers would be pissed if every 2 1/2 years they have to prep for the next console gen and make room for both consoles and peripherals. Not to mention having to explain what console is what to non-gaming parents and grandparents. Again, this works for Pro models because they know it's not a full launch, so no new peripherals, and they only need a small number of them compared to the base console.

Pretty obvious to understand the difference between consoles and phones when it comes to space. Hell, just the controllers take up more space than a phone. So, it's easy for retailers to keep 2, or even 3, gens of a phone in stock.

So, yea, shorter gens aren't going to work.

Assuming that Microsofts wants gens to be 4 years.

I can see retailers refusing to stock the product especially given how the current models are selling. In pretty sure they are trying to clear out stock and to so that on a large scale every 4 years doesn't interest them. Sure Microsoft could just sell it themselves but that would severely limit how many people will have access to the product.

In short 4 year gens would probably end badly for Microsoft especially given the current situation. Heck a new console over the next 2 years will be a problem for some.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

But they could build around i/o because they weren't making it for any other platforms so it's the scenario you said would unleash the i/o super mode, was just asking what happened there figured you could explain what happened like you did with alan wake 2.

Different game.
Different developer.
It's not hard to understand but it's hard to make a no point into a point.

 

[SimTourist]

They already tried sticking with Kinect. It ended up making their XBO console $100 more expensive and they lost to PS4 badly.

Motion controls were a fad. Especially ones that only used a camera and not physical controllers. Notice how no one is using that tech anymore.

Nah, making it mandatory was stupid, but as an optional device it would've worked fine. There is a distinct lack of party games that can be played by casual people that aren't used to controllers. Having something like bowling, boxing, skiing, etc. minigames to play with a group of people at a home party. Just Dance is still pretty popular. The market for that stuff is there, it wasn't replaced by phones, and as a device kinect 2 was much better than the first one, with better tracking and camera resolution. MS just sucks at marketing their stuff and makes dumb decisions.

 

[thismeinteil]

Nah, making it mandatory was stupid, but as an optional device it would've worked fine. There is a distinct lack of party games that can be played by casual people that aren't used to controllers. Having something like bowling, boxing, skiing, etc. minigames to play with a group of people at a home party. Just Dance is still pretty popular. The market for that stuff is there, it wasn't replaced by phones, and as a device kinect 2 was much better than the first one, with better tracking and camera resolution. MS just sucks at marketing their stuff and makes dumb decisions.

Except they did change it to be optional shortly after launch. No one bought it. Like I said, motion gaming was a fad.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Did you just forget Alan Wake II just came out or are you saying Remedy gimped the PS5 version?

That's just one game, and it's not like Xbox doesn't have a few 3P games that perform better on it vs. PS5. The issue for them is, it's nowhere near consistent enough, and it's not just because devs prioritize PS5 since it has more market share.

PS5, its SDK & APIs are simply easier to work with, plain and simple. Even DF's Alex said as such: DX12U has too many options and devs waste too much time trying to figure out which ones are best for their game and their engine. So they'll usually pick the default choices which may not be the most optimal.

That's all on Microsoft and it's a consequence of developing a SDK primarily focused on PC and adding console support after the fact. DX12U isn't a console-first SDK (nor its APIs), and it shows.

MS really needs to stay the course with the X/S. Beef up its games and release the next console when they have games ready for said console. Xbox don't need to leapfrog Sony. MS has plenty of strengths/"pillars" to rely on now. Why jump head first into another console when the software isn't ready for it? I get it Sony's the leader but, you don't try and do the same thing Sony does. You try and release a console when your software is ready not before! Stop playing catchup and lead that's what MS was able to do with the 360. Only this time they own the Mass Effects (Activision, Bethesda and others). Time to stop releasing hardware and get the software right. Then watch the consumers follow! No more MS paid off said studios remarks, they own the studios they need! Xbox has a ton of the RPGs and FPSs. It's time to let the developers develop and leave Halo in the oven until its truly ready for a reveal. No more half baked reveals are needed. MS has more than enough studios to avoid another Refall reveal/problem/release! Another words forget a new hardware for 2026 no matter what Sony does! Assets are always going to code to weakest hardware anyway why confuse the market more with another release?

I'm not understanding some of what you're saying here. You're saying Microsoft shouldn't do what Sony's doing, and that's true to an extent. But then you imply Sony releases their systems when the software isn't ready...isn't that what Microsoft did this gen? PS5 had some 1P exclusives at launch; Xbox Series didn't aside Falconeer which...didn't do anything.

We know Microsoft actually have some games fairly well along, so they'd have at least a couple 1P exclusives to launch with a 2026 system (whatever that system would end up being). The 360's lead was kind of an anomaly: MS initially didn't think the PS3 would be delayed a year, so they got lucky with a year's head start. No one knew how difficult early PS3 development was going to be, so that was another lucky break. And finally, no one predicted the system would cost $599 for the top model (even the cheaper option being more expensive then the most expensive 360 at the time), with almost all 3P games running worst on it vs 360 in very visible ways (i.e you didn't need a DF to tell you one version was performing better than the other; the average customer could see that difference immediately).

Microsoft's in a weird place because it's clear what's best for Xbox is to simply stop competing against PlayStation, but MS have cultivated a culture of diehards who want nothing but to compete with PlayStation and Xbox to (finally) topple Sony's console. So now it's up to Microsoft to either transition those people into a mindset that better serves the brand, or just abandon them over time. And if not competing against PlayStation means going a year or two early, well, as long as Microsoft have a game plan set in place and sufficient 1P content at a regular quality & flow....then maybe a 2026 launch is what's best for them.

But it's some of the diehards who need to realize that most likely wouldn't be in an effort to "beat PlayStation"; but to just be a better Xbox, whatever that entails.

MS don't have a power problem, they have a no one wants what they are selling problem.

Yep, and that's down to not providing a value in the market that is unique. No reason to buy an Xbox console for 1P games if you already have a capable PC, because it gets everything Day 1. No reason to buy an Xbox console for getting most of the 3P games because PlayStation gets all the same 3P games (and a few more) at the same time 99% of the time. No reason to really get an Xbox console for younger ones and family, or as a 2nd console if you have a PlayStation, because the Nintendo Switch has that segment covered and offers more value as a 2nd console to many than an Xbox does.

As a console, there's just too little value proposition for Xbox to make it desirable without steep price cuts & discounts, and even then that isn't helping massively or reversing the brand's fortunes console-wise. I still think they can give Xbox that much-needed value proposition but they can't suddenly stop bringing their games to PC Day 1, for example. So the next best option is to make Xbox a streamlined Windows gaming-optimized, consolized PC/laptop system hardware product line. How they can best do that while leveraging benefits of Xbox as a console model (design/production/business model-wise) will be up to them.

Not possible for consoles in 2026 to have N3P

Consoles, no. But a console-like PC with a higher price and lower production volumes? I think it'd be quite possible

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Consoles, no. But a console-like PC with a higher price and lower production volumes? I think it'd be quite possible

What would be the point of that? MS doesn’t intend to sell many Xboxes?

 

[onQ123]

Pretty certain its not going to be a Pro model that Xbox is bringing out in 25/26

People don't seem to get that One/Series X is the "Pro" model & I'm thinking this go around there will probably be more models but knowing that the low end model would be wasteful with the Series X & PS5 still being new to a lot of people they will try their hands at winning the PC market back from Steam with what's essentially a readymade PC

The issue here is releasing the Series S with Microsoft thinking the barrier to entry was the price point. It wasn't now, and it never was. People are going to buy a console for the games they want to play.

But most of the games people want to play is also on Series S .

Series S was not Xbox problem it's the fact that Xbox as a console is mostly redundant & need to bring something to the table that separate it from PC & PlayStation.

 

[sendit]

People don't seem to get that One/Series X is the "Pro" model & I'm thinking this go around there will probably be more models but knowing that the low end model would be wasteful with the Series X & PS5 still being new to a lot of people they will try their hands at winning the PC market back from Steam with what's essentially a readymade PC

But most of the games people want to play is also on Series S .

Series S was not Xbox problem it's the fact that Xbox as a console is mostly redundant & need to bring something to the table that separate it from PC & PlayStation.

When the GOTY is delayed on the Series X because they have to accommodate the special needs little brother, than yes it is a problem.

That is several months of a competing console having an exclusive that wasn’t meant to be exclusive.

 

[onQ123]

When the GOTY is delayed on the Series X because they have to accommodate the special needs little brother, than yes it is a problem.

That is several months of a competing console having an exclusive that wasn’t meant to be exclusive.

When the Series S is over half of the Series consoles while the competition is at close to 50 million trust me that game would have skipped Xbox Series all together if it wasn't for Series S padding the numbers.

Things are bad but they would have been even worse without Series S.

Going forward they will be able to get by with low hardware numbers because they own Activision .


Without the cheap Xbox Series S Xbox would have been dead in the 1st 3 years with 3rd parties jumping ship.

 

[Gojiira]

Soooo the constant ‘Xbox Pro’ references just leave a bad taste in my mouth, too many ‘sources’ have used the naming terminology, so they’ve just given up entirely and now are outright copying Playstation naming conventions? Like wtf? The ‘Pro’ is associated with PS, ffs can they not even come up with a fucking original name? Its just so weird and pathetic.

 

[EverydayBeast]

A new Xbox is coming, it will be a huge storyline for Microsoft, I think the original online (Xbox live) will come back too.

 

[onQ123]

Soooo the constant ‘Xbox Pro’ references just leave a bad taste in my mouth, too many ‘sources’ have used the naming terminology, so they’ve just given up entirely and now are outright copying Playstation naming conventions? Like wtf? The ‘Pro’ is associated with PS, ffs can they not even come up with a fucking original name? Its just so weird and pathetic.

People using the word " Pro" is just to describe a higher model it has nothing to do with the name Microsoft will use for the next Xbox.

 

[Pipescl]

The can go with Xbox nuclear pro 5g atmos whatever and I won’t be interested

 

[sendit]

When the Series S is over half of the Series consoles while the competition is at close to 50 million trust me that game would have skipped Xbox Series all together if it wasn't for Series S padding the numbers.

Things are bad but they would have been even worse without Series S.

Going forward they will be able to get by with low hardware numbers because they own Activision .


Without the cheap Xbox Series S Xbox would have been dead in the 1st 3 years with 3rd parties jumping ship.

Based on what history? The Series S/X is on pace to have lower sales than the Xbox One, which launched with one configuration at 499.

When next generation arrives, I can guarantee you that Microsoft, if they're still in the hardware console business will not release two separate sku's at launch again (separate as in one weaker console).

 

[truth411]

Not possible for consoles in 2026 to have N3P

Unless plans changed, TSMC N3P goes into production this year. A Holiday 2026 console using N3P is totally doable.

 

[Kazekage1981]

Thats not one step ahead, its one behind.

The Xbox One X power difference between Vanilla Xbox One was 5 TFLOPS. The difference between PS4 and PS4Pro was 2 TFLOPS. "Pro" defining it based on what Sony and Apple do is slight to moderate upgrade based on the vanilla model. The Xbone X also came a year later, and I believe was a bit more expensive, with hardly any games utilizing the new hardware. If the current rumors of PS5Pro is correct, then a Zen2, RDNA 3.5, slight RAM bandwidth increase (with same amount of RAM), possibly better SSD is indeed enough to tilt it over to double digits TFLOPS, 4k raytracing at 60fps-120fps with same price as PS5 and making vanilla PS5 at lower price point will sell like hot cakes. It works for Sony, but if MS were to copy the same thing as Sony with slightly beefed up the specs compared to PS5Pro, release it a year later, $100-$200 more price point is going to be an utter failure with hardly any games utilizing the Pro hardware.

Rather than releasing a Pro model every 2-3 years and going with a new gen of hardware altogether (every 4-5 years): Zen5/RDNA5, gives them extra time to get it right and fine tune their hardware and tools with quality and quantity of polished games. MSFT's 4–5-year console cycle in my opinion is better than Sony's 2-3 year Pro release along with an additional generation release 2-3 year after the Pro release because it gives MSFT the hardware narrative advantage if that is what they are chasing against Sony (if that is the only differentiating factor for the consumer to make but its not, cause my Xbox One X is collecting dust for the most part). They can also release 2 sku's similar to Series X|S as long as it is Zen5/RDNA5 based.

I honestly think MSFT is headed in a different direction with other goals in mind with Windows 12, PC, AI, ARM, and that is unifying their ecosystem which plays into factor for there next gen hardware. I dont think its an apples to apples comparison anymore

 

[clarky]

The Xbox One X power difference between Vanilla Xbox One was 5 TFLOPS. The difference between PS4 and PS4Pro was 2 TFLOPS. "Pro" defining it based on what Sony and Apple do is slight to moderate upgrade based on the vanilla model. The Xbone X also came a year later, and I believe was a bit more expensive, with hardly any games utilizing the new hardware. If the current rumors of PS5Pro is correct, then a Zen2, RDNA 3.5, slight RAM bandwidth increase (with same amount of RAM), possibly better SSD is indeed enough to tilt it over to double digits TFLOPS, 4k raytracing at 60fps-120fps with same price as PS5 and making vanilla PS5 at lower price point will sell like hot cakes. It works for Sony, but if MS were to copy the same thing as Sony with slightly beefed up the specs compared to PS5Pro, release it a year later, $100-$200 more price point is going to be an utter failure with hardly any games utilizing the Pro hardware.

Rather than releasing a Pro model every 2-3 years and going with a new gen of hardware altogether (every 4-5 years): Zen5/RDNA5, gives them extra time to get it right and fine tune their hardware and tools with quality and quantity of polished games. MSFT's 4–5-year console cycle in my opinion is better than Sony's 2-3 year Pro release along with an additional generation release 2-3 year after the Pro release because it gives MSFT the hardware narrative advantage if that is what they are chasing against Sony (if that is the only differentiating factor for the consumer to make but its not, cause my Xbox One X is collecting dust for the most part). They can also release 2 sku's similar to Series X|S as long as it is Zen5/RDNA5 based.

I honestly think MSFT is headed in a different direction with other goals in mind with Windows 12, PC, AI, ARM, and that is unifying their ecosystem which plays into factor for there next gen hardware. I dont think its an apples to apples comparison anymore

And none of this matters in the slightest. Flops this Flops that who cares? Rarely has power mattered with a generation.

The actual visual leap to average Joe between PS5 Pro (if there is one) and a console that comes out 18 months to 2 years later will be insignificant.

Software is the only thing that matters, thats were they should be focusing their efforts. The brand is in the shitter.

True story: We had a new years raffle at work yesterday and there was genuine excitement when the PS5 prize came up and a silence a few later when the Series X was up for grabs.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

What would be the point of that? MS doesn’t intend to sell many Xboxes?

Exactly. So with a PC NUC & laptop-based business model, they manufacture less systems but sell them at a higher price, with real profit margins, but still keep them competitive (likely even cheaper) than other gaming-centric NUCs and laptops, while keeping performance profiles mainly in line with the console generational mentality they've been doing since '01.

So they'd have volume somewhere between a mainstream PC NUC & laptop line, and what Xbox is currently doing today (~ 7-8 million annually), but have better volume than the former, and much better margins than the latter.

However for that to work they'd have to change other things about the business model, such as having it run regular Windows, but keep the console-like UI for those who prefer it (would be their 'Big Picture Mode' in a sense) and let users easily switch back and forth between that and the regular Windows desktop environment. They can still keep the Xbox Store integrated in the Xbox UI mode (which would also disable unnecessary Windows system processes), but naturally this model would let people use ANY storefront they want (such as Steam) in the Windows desktop environment, just like on a regular PC.

And I know one of the first things people say is "but what about 3P sales cuts?". Yes, MS opens up losing a lot of that traffic on Xbox Store if they let people just use other storefronts like Steam, EGS etc. in the Windows UI environment, but that would be counterbalanced by Microsoft no longer having a reason to play the exclusivity game. I mean isn't that what Satya Nadella said they wanted to stop? Well, they don't have to wait for Sony & Nintendo to stop; Microsoft can start themselves. But it'd mean Xbox no longer runs on the business model of a traditional console the way we know them.

Upside being, they have no reason to pretend competing against other consoles, so they can maximize their revenue & profits bringing their games to PlayStation & Nintendo systems in full. And they'll probably still have some cases like Flight Simulator where it's only on PC for a while, so in a way they still get their "Xbox" exclusives every now and then. You know, for those who absolutely cannot let go the dream of MS recreating 360, and want to live in that Xbox vs PlayStation fantasy world.

 

[Kazekage1981]

And none of this matters in the slightest. Flops this Flops that who cares? Rarely has power mattered with a generation.

The actual visual leap to average Joe between PS5 Pro (if there is one) and a console that comes out 18 months to 2 years later will be insignificant.

Software is the only thing that matters, thats were they should be focusing their efforts. The brand is in the shitter.

True story: We had a new years raffle at work yesterday and there was genuine excitement when the PS5 prize came up and a silence a few later when the Series X was up for grabs.

I think power has mattered to some degree for every new generation. Utilizing that power with talented game developers with quality and quantity of software is a whole other ball game. I think this thread is mostly focusing on the hardware aspects of the nextbox.