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There is a campaign dedicated to making Elon Musk Dump Trump

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K

KHarvey16

Member
APF said:
You beg the question when you assume this has been set up to listen to people's advice and not purely to elevate trump.
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Yeah Trump has shown a real good track record of never being influenced by those around him. He has a rock solid worldview.
 
E

Erevador

Member
Moronic.

People like Musk are a good influence on Trump if he'll listen to them. The idea that wise people shouldn't advise him is insane. What matters most is policy, and if smart people can get Trump to implement a better policy, the best for all of us.

I'm glad smart people like James Mattis and McMaster are running defense, Trump is out of his depth and needs all the guidance he can get.

Presidential policy affects millions of lives. It's not a political game, it is deadly serious.

Oppose Trump and beat him at the ballot box, but don't bully intelligent people for trying to give him good advice.

Those people may at various points be the only thing between us and disaster.

Smarten up, people.
 
G

Gutek

Member
KHarvey16 said:
My opinion is exactly what I stated. Dismissing Musk as a collaborator for his level of involvement and purpose is dangerous thinking.

Would you rather no one sane ever spoke to Trump?
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Yes. Trump needs to be ostracized by anyone with a working brain cell. No discourse, no dialogue, no nothing. Just pure, unadulterated opposition.

He wields no power if nobody indulges him.
 
LordOfChaos

LordOfChaos

Member
Seems pretty short sighted. Would you rather have sane voices around him, or not?

I'd rather Musk be doing Musk-ey things around Trump than not impacting his policy.
 
T

The Pope

Member
Trump is a LEGITIMATE president. He is a fucking awful and dangerous one but he is one democratically elected one none the less. Musk role is on the advisory council - he is there to represent his interests. These interests are good in the long run. You lose any debate you do not participate in.

"White man protects white interests" 2Edgy4me.

Please tell me what benefits of Musk leaving his role will benefit a greener and better future vs the harms of not being able to participate in policy decisions. I need the harms people - what are the tangible harms of him being on the council? How is him resighning going to completely illegitimize Trump's presidency.

Musk has come out repeatedly codemning many actions of the Trump administration. He is an avisor not the VP.

Tall poppy syndrome at work. He is rich and white. Serves on advisor role for the president where he advocates the use of green technology . Obviously he is a white supremacist neo-nazi....
 
K

KHarvey16

Member
Gutek said:
Yes. Trump needs to be ostracized by anyone with a working brain cell. No discourse, no dialogue, no nothing. Just pure, unadulterated opposition.

He wields no power if nobody indulges him.
Click to expand...

This is incredibly naive. If sane people ignore him only the crazy ones will be there to offer him advice.

Your idea is irresponsible.
 
G

Gutek

Member
The Pope said:
Trump is a LEGITIMATE president. He is a fucking awful and dangerous one but he is one democratically elected one none the less. Musk role is on the advisory council - he is there to represent his interests. These interests are good in the long run. You lose any debate you do not participate in.

"White man protects white interests" 2Edgy4me.

Please tell me what benefits of Musk leaving his role will benefit a greener future and better future vs the harms of not being able to participate in policy decisions. I need the harms people - what are the tangible harms of him being on the council? How is him resighning going to completely illegitimize Trump's presidency.

Musk has come out repeatedly codemning many actions of the Trump administration. He is an avisor not the VP.

Tall poppy syndrome at work. He is rich and white. Serves on advisor role for the president where he advocates the use of green technology . Obviously he is a white supremacist neo-nazi....
Click to expand...

What benefits are we seeing from Musk working with Trump?

Edit: no need to answer. At best, Musk is the only one benefiting.
 
E

Erevador

Member
Gutek said:
Yes. Trump needs to be ostracized by anyone with a working brain cell. No discourse, no dialogue, no nothing. Just pure, unadulterated opposition.

He wields no power if nobody indulges him.
Click to expand...
Have fun with that fantasy. There are plenty of people who will support him, and are at least somewhat qualified. Would you rather have the best in charge, or those who are mediocre and corrupt?

Smart people should serve and do the best they can in whatever capacity that is.
 
S

Slayven

Member
Where is the influence? Cause in the first 100 days all Trump has done is roll back environmental protections, protections from women and transgender, and student loan .

If your name ain't Kushiner, Trump only has time for a photo op
 
T

The Pope

Member
Gutek said:
What benefits are we seeing from Musk working with Trump?
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He represents the interest of a green technology company as well as the interests of space exploration. He controls what will soon be the largest motor company in the US. He cannot be ignored. He has the oppertunity to influence policy and mitigate against energy and oil company domination on the council.
 
A

APF

Member
KHarvey16 said:
Yeah Trump has shown a real good track record of never being influenced by those around him. He has a rock solid worldview.
Click to expand...

Where is the evidence he listens to committees and not individuals, or that when listening to individuals it's not immediately forgotten when he listens to the next individual. His lack of intellectual consistency is the point. No advice that's not constantly pushed into his ear--eg Bannon--sticks.
 
F

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Slayven said:
Where is the influence? Cause in the first 100 days all Trump has done is roll back environmental protections, protections from women and transgender, and student loan .

If your name ain't Kushiner, Trump only has time for a photo op
Click to expand...
This
 
G

Gutek

Member
The Pope said:
He represents the interest of a green technology company as well as the interests of space exploration. He controls what will soon be the largest motor company in the US. He has the oppertunity to influence policy and mitigate against energy and oil company domination on the council.
Click to expand...

What's the benefit?
 
K

KHarvey16

Member
Gutek said:
What benefits are we seeing from Musk working with Trump?

Edit: no need to answer. At best, Musk is the only one benefiting.
Click to expand...

Slayven said:
Where is the influence? Cause in the first 100 days all Trump has done is roll back environmental protections, protections from women and transgender, and student loan protections.

If your name ain't Kushiner, Trump only has time for a photo op
Click to expand...

What the hell is this?

If he doesn't do a 180 immediately and save the universe I suppose we shouldn't try to contain him because we obviously have zero influence, oh well we tried! Sorry future generations.
 
T

The Pope

Member
Gutek said:
What's the benefit?
Click to expand...
He has the oppertunity to influence policy and mitigate against energy and oil company domination on the council.

Representation is important in any democracy. Declining representation comes out of raw emotion and stupidity.
 
A

APF

Member
If this "influence" doesn't actually influence policy decisions, it's purely there for photo ops and to elevate and legitimize trump. If he really wanted to influence the president he'd just go on Fox and Friends; at least then he only has to elevate and legitimize a crappy news org.
 
S

Slayven

Member
The Pope said:
He represents the interest of a green technology company as well as the interests of space exploration. He controls what will soon be the largest motor company in the US. He cannot be ignored. He has the oppertunity to influence policy and mitigate against energy and oil company domination on the council.
Click to expand...

A Running List of How Trump Is Changing the Environment

Trump Inner Circle Discusses Paris Agreement

April 18, 2017 - Key Trump advisers and Cabinet officials are set to discuss whether the U.S. should stay in the Paris Agreement, according to an April 14 Politico report. The global climate pact was absent from Trump's March 28 executive order on climate, and debate over whether the U.S. should leave the agreement has divided the White House. Politico reports that Trump is expected to make a final decision on the global climate pact by late May.
Pruitt Calls for Exiting Paris Agreement

April 14, 2017 - In an interview on ”Fox & Friends," EPA administrator Scott Pruitt says that he's personally opposed to the Paris Agreement, the international pact to fight climate change negotiated in 2015. While Pruitt calls the pact ”a bad deal for America," the Trump administration has remained noncommittal on withdrawing from the agreement, reports the Washington Post.
EPA Announces ”Back-to-Basics" Agenda

April 13, 2017 - With Pennsylvania's Harvey coal mine as his backdrop, EPA administrator Scott Pruitt announces a ”back-to-basics" agenda for the environmental agency, which he describes as ”protecting the environment by engaging with state, local, and tribal partners to create sensible regulations that enhance economic growth." The agenda includes reviews of the Clean Power Plan and the Waters of the United States rule, two key Obama-era environmental regulations, as well as promises to clear the backlog of new chemicals awaiting EPA approval. (Read the whole agenda here.)
Climate Change Staffers Reassigned

April 7, 2017 - News outlets report that several staff members at EPA's headquarters who specialized in climate change adaptation have been reassigned. However, an EPA official interviewed by The Hill emphasizes that the agency's regional offices ”have always taken the lead on adaptation and will continue to do so." An EPA official interviewed by National Geographic says that the staff—four employees in all—will continue at the agency's Office of Policy, bringing their knowledge to a broader set of issues.
Trump Donates to National Parks

April 3, 2017 - The White House announces that President Trump has donated the first quarter of his salary ($78,333.32) to the National Park Service. The gift will reportedly chip away at the $100 to $230 million in deferred maintenance backlogs that the nation's battlefields currently bear. (The National Park Service's total deferred maintenance backlog is valued at $12 billion.) Trump's 2018 budget blueprint calls for a $1.5-billion cut to the U.S. Department of the Interior, to which the National Park Service and its $3.4-billion budget belong. Among other things, the 12-percent cut would eliminate funding for unspecified National Heritage Areas—lived-in, cohesive landscapes deemed by Congress to be nationally important. Several National Heritage Areas contain preserved battlefields.
Scientific Integrity Office Reviewing Pruitt

March 31, 2017 - In response to inquiries from the Sierra Club, the EPA's Office of Inspector General refers Scott Pruitt's March 9 CNBC interview to the agency's scientific integrity office for review. In that interview, Pruitt had downplayed carbon emissions' central role in driving Earth's changing climate—a position at odds with scientific consensus. EPA spokespeople defend Pruitt, claiming that the administrator is within his right to have a differing opinion. As of April 6, 2017, the Office of Inspector General said that the review had no specified timeframe.
EPA Scientist Retires with a Bang

March 31, 2017 - Environmental scientist Michael Cox retires from the EPA after more than 25 years with the agency, penning a scorching farewell letter to agency administrator Scott Pruitt. The letter, which garners significant media coverage, lambasts the Trump administration for ”working to dismantle EPA and its staff as quickly as possible."
Pesticide Avoids Total Ban

March 29, 2017 - Against the advice of the EPA's chemical safety experts, EPA administrator Scott Pruitt rejects a decade-old petition asking that the EPA ban all use of the pesticide chlorpyrifos. In 2000, the EPA banned its use in most household settings, but the pesticide is still used on some 40,000 farms, which EPA scientists recommended stop. Research suggests that chlorpyrifos may be associated with brain damage in children and farm workers, even at low exposures—though Dow Chemical, chlorpyrifos' manufacturer, argues that it is safe when properly used. The U.S. Department of Agriculture welcomes Pruitt's decision as helpful for U.S. farmers.
Climate Actions Undone

March 28, 2017 - President Trump signs an executive order that seeks to dismantle much of the work on climate change enacted by the Obama administration. The order takes steps to downplay the future costs of carbon emissions, walks back tracking of the federal government's carbon emissions, rescinds a 2016 moratorium on coal leases on federal lands, and strikes down Obama-era executive orders and memoranda aimed at helping the country prepare for climate change's worst impacts, including threats to national security.

Most notably, the executive order begins the process of rescinding the EPA's Clean Power Plan, an Obama-era regulation designed to reduce carbon dioxide emissions from new and existing power plants. (Read more about the order—and how China may take up global leadership on climate change.)
Click to expand...

KHarvey16 said:
What the hell is this?

If he doesn't do a 180 immediately and save the universe I suppose we shouldn't try to contain him because we obviously have zero influence, oh well we tried! Sorry future generations.
Click to expand...

Dude just signed a law to ok shooting sleeping bears last week. if Musk had any influence we should have seen something by now
 
X

Xyphie

Member
A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. He knows he has to suck the government teat to keep his businesses running.
 
K

KHarvey16

Member
APF said:
Where is the evidence he listens to committees and not individuals, or that when listening to individuals it's not immediately forgotten when he listens to the next individual. His lack of intellectual consistency is the point. No advice that's not constantly pushed into his ear--eg Bannon--sticks.
Click to expand...

This kind of awful reasoning pisses me off. Your attitude is not helpful and if allowed to prevail will likely be responsible for whatever range of negative consequences resulting from the apathy and defeatist nonsense that always brings us those things.

You said it's having no effect, you prove that. I'm saying surround him with as many sane voices as possible because it improves our chances. I support that by pointing to Mattis and McMaster.
 
T

The Pope

Member
Slayven said:
A Running List of How Trump Is Changing the Environment





Dude just signed a law to ok shooting sleeping bears last week. if Musk had any influence we should have seen something by now
Click to expand...
Small parties in parliaments across the world have little to no influence yet they still show up in parliaments to represent their peoples interests. Musk is there to represent Green interests. Please provide the harms for him being on the ADVISORY council?

No there are harms for him leaving but none for him staying.
 
S

Slayven

Member
The Pope said:
Small parties in parliaments across the world have little to no influence yet they still show up in parliaments to represent their peoples interests. Musk is there to represent Green interests. Please provide the harms for him being on the ADVISORY council?

No there are harms for him leaving but none for him staying.
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He can stay but lets net sell him as him actually doing anything, his position is at best ceremonial
KHarvey16 said:
Yeah if the effect isn't 100%, give up.

The perfect is definitely the enemy of the good.
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Where did i say there has to be a complete 180. I am saying there should at least be some movement, instead his positions gets progressively worse.
 
A

APF

Member
KHarvey16 said:
This kind of awful reasoning pisses me off.[...]

You said it's having no effect, you prove that.
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It's very difficult to prove something has no effect, which is why the burden of proof is most often on the person asserting something does have an effect.

Slayven said:
He can stay but lets net sell him as him actually doing anything, his position is at best ceremonial
Click to expand...
And then you have to ask who benefits from him having a ceremonial role, and that's only trump and no one else.
 
T

The Pope

Member
Slayven said:
He can stay but lets net sell him as him actually doing anything, his position is at best ceremonial

Where did i say there has to be a complete 180. I am saying there should at least be some movement, instead his positions gets progressively worse.
Click to expand...
Being able to know things before others is not mere ceremony. Do you think Musk as busy as he is, is just there for ceremony?
 
K

KHarvey16

Member
APF said:
It's very difficult to prove something has no effect, which is why the burden of proof is most often on the person asserting something does have an effect.
Click to expand...

No, assertions require proof. That your assertion is hard to prove means it's a bad assertion, not that it doesn't require proof.

I gave you examples supporting my point.
 
nekkid

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
He should be in an advisory role for ANY president.
 
T

The Pope

Member
Slayven said:
If i was getting 5 billion dollars in government subsidies, i would shuck and jive a bit to
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So the goverment is subsidizing a renewable energy company. Great. If it increases the governments chance of keeping the subsidy then of course Musk should "jive"

With that said he is not "jiving". He has frequently come out against Trump, advising that they lift the Muslim ban etc. ADVISING.
 
Z

zeshakag

Member
ClosingADoor said:
Yes, he has built Tesla to get to Mars...

There is nothing wrong with people like Musk being on a board of advisers for Trump. He needs to be there to get his stuff attention and counter the lobbies from other car manufacturers and such.
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From his ITS press conference:

""The main reason I’m personally accumulating assets is in order to fund this. So, I really don’t have any other motivation for personally accumulating assets except to be able to make the biggest contribution I can to making life multi-planetary."

That includes motivation for making Tesla as profitable as possible so he can sell his stock in the long run.


Ratrat said:
Why shouldn't he talk to Trump?
Click to expand...

Because then he's a trump supporter to Neogaf. To me, he's already president, and will continue to be president. The world isn't going to stop turning and people got to keep doing business.
 
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