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Toronto Police Union Wants Pride Funding Pulled After Floats Banned
- Thread starter CazTGG
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Vicetrailia
Member
pull ALL funding from the city? Common police, with strings attached!
Gotdatmoney
Member
The police will get their float because ultimately what POC want doesn't actually matter. That's really all their is to it. The fact that the police are asking the city to defund a whole fucking parade because of uniforms and a float says it all. It makes BLM Toronto MORE correct about the entire situation. These are your police ladies and gentlemen.
Please stop being a condescending ass.
yup.
The police union saying this is fucking ridiculous and makes them look like complete fucking idiots. That being said its not like anyone is going to care and drop funding. People need to take a step back to reality. Both sides are taking this way too far.
excelsiorlef
Member
Yep.
So close to a revelation...
If you're not going to bother reading the first post, which explicitly addresses your concerns, then don't get upset if I suggest you do so.
Pretty much.
Police unions are not shit? I'm not sure what your meaning is. They don't matter or they are not protectionist thugs? I'd say you're wrong either way, at least what I've seen of north America. Different where I live now thankfully. And every institution is filled with individuals and sub groups. Allow the more progressive members of the institution demonstrate the old ways are not going to be continuing.
old manatee
Banned
I guess the high road was off the table.
indigo lily
Member
Exactly. It's pretty disgusting and I am utterly disappointed at their response to this situation.
I get individual cops can march. If you have some other point to make then do so. Just telling people to read a post is a lazy response. If you have anything of substance to say, feel free.
Edit: I think the benefits of an official police float outweigh the downsides. Is that clear enough?
Gotdatmoney
Member
You're wrong, this matters immensely. Because the whole point is that POC don't want the police there because they make them feel intimidated and unwelcomed. And in addition they discriminate against absolutely. The police come out and literally try to defund a whole parade because fuck your concerns, we matter more. Tell me, who has a point?
The police will get their float. And it will be the perfect example of why POC and especially black people don't like the police. I've said from the start, the city is going to fold.
That's not how this plays out though but you're fundamentally sidestepping the point I think. yeah, individual police officers can be decent people or whatever but criticisms are being levied at the whole institution for cultivating shitty cops and enacting shitty policies that individual officers have to enforce.
Police Unions are nothing but politicians and lobbyist. They defend cops even when they are dead wrong and defend bad practices and policies. A recent example I can give you is in NYC where some dude drove up from Baltimore and shot two cops dead. The police unions here used the death of those cops as a way to shit on the mayor saying he created an anti-police atmosphere when he campaigned on removing stop and frisk, a practice that was deemed unconstitutional by the courts. Police unions are also the ones pushing hard for shitty Blue Live Matter bills all over the U.S. Here we have the Toronto police union demanding city funding be removed from a parade because they can't have a mother fucking float.
Oh can we settle down. You nor BLM speak for POC. People need to ease back on their own personal agenda. The Police and BLM both. They need to stop this school yard bullshit and drama and get together and come up with a solution. Most places on earth would be astounded the police wanted a float but in Canada we send them away its fucking silly.
The carnival of stupidity continues.
Thanks BLM Toronto for getting this all started.
Is there an end game to this? E.g. You can have your float back when....(racial discrimination is completely gone?)
Banning the police (uniforms/float) was and continues to be a moronic idea without any tangible goal to it other than increasing a divide.
Thanks BLM Toronto for getting this all started.
Is there an end game to this? E.g. You can have your float back when....(racial discrimination is completely gone?)
Banning the police (uniforms/float) was and continues to be a moronic idea without any tangible goal to it other than increasing a divide.
I thought the goal was pretty fucking obvious. Have you even tried listening to BLM To words?
Gotdatmoney
Member
I'm saying what BLM Toronto has been saying. This nothing to do with my personal opinion. Go away if you can't prepose anything other than "both sides". That's a personal opinion too so miss me with that bullshit.
How smart of you, very balanced and well argued. /s
Someone already stated it plainly in this thread.
^^^^This is the root of the issue and the most correct post in the thread.
Until, people recognize this, you aren't going to get anybody coming together. Take your head out of the sand. You don't know what you're talking
tearsintherain
Member
The police are right. The parade organizers are free to ban whomever they want, but if they ban city organizations then the city and feds are well within its moral and civic rights to not give them any money.
You can't simultaneously say "we don't want this part of your organization with us" and "give us money, please". If you don't like parts of the city government, then yeah absolutely protest them, boycott them, etc but don't be a hypocrite and ignore the boycott when it comes to money.
You can't simultaneously say "we don't want this part of your organization with us" and "give us money, please". If you don't like parts of the city government, then yeah absolutely protest them, boycott them, etc but don't be a hypocrite and ignore the boycott when it comes to money.
indigo lily
Member
The city will fold indefinitely. The floats will be back and the crowds will cheer and support Police even louder. Social media like reddit will be filled with pics with the poor police that were "marginalized" by the racist group BLM.
I haven't gone to Pride since the POC community spaces have basically disappeared or been relegated far away from any real activity. But I may make it a point to go this year... especially if Pride Toronto stands their ground
And who do you speak for? I sure hope you're a PoC because you sure as shit have been telling PoC how they should or shouldn't be dealing with cops in the parade.
I've been doing so throughout this thread,but I suppose you've yet to readthose posts either since you're too busy with your nuanced "no one is perfect" contribution to this discussion
Now it is, at least you're dancing around your support for a group that has no right to be in being given a special space at Pride.
I will repeat this again: Pride started as a response to the arrests police made in the 1980s that specifically targeted the LGBTQ+ community. They are not just "some group" and the float that will no longer be is not just any other float. They are symbols of the continuous discrimination of Canada's black and LGBTQ+ communities. They should not be honored for what they have done and continue to do.
https://blacklivesmatter.ca/demands/
Where does it explain the goal of removing the police float? Have they said what would be grounds for the return of it?
I don't see that.
Maximus.
Member
Well in the case of Toronto, it is fucked up BLM came in and demanded such changes for a Pride event.
indigo lily
Member
Not a lot of people have even looked at the full list of demands:
The highlighted were issues that I had instantly agreed with and addressed many of the visibility issues that many that I know in the queer POC community had ongoing issues with for Pride.
The police float ban I was kind of 'meh' on until the vitriolic response from the general public and LGBT community itself.
I began to understand why putting this demand forward was important because it started showing the cracks with "allies" and how a lot of people in Canada think we are some utopian country (which isn't hard to do when you compare with race relations in south of the border).
But just because issues don't seem as apparent doesn't mean they don't exist. So this whole situation felt like a bit of a wake up call to a lot of queer POC at least that were getting complacent in being pushed out further and further from the main stage.
The goal is a safe and inclusive environment for LGBTQ people of color and the police as they operate now is detrimental to that. The police DON'T deserve to be a part of the parade as they are not members of that community. They can have their float back until they do right by marginalized groups but I don't give a shit personal if they ever do
Anyone who sides with the police doesn't know the history of pride, and It's especially shameful to see Canadians dismiss issues of anti-black racism because it isn't the "US". With all due sincerity, please make a vested effort to understand the plight of minorities in your own country.
Police are 100% responsible for their own reputation. There is no argument about that, period. If Black and other double minorities feel unsafe around them, that's not their problem, because it's the police who created the tone, environment, and reaction.
If the police were really invested in changing a narrative, they would have sent a letter showcasing how they changed within their own police force and how attitudes and tactics are being changed within the police force, so that minorities don't have to be fearful. They didn't do that. They should have sat out this pride and worked on changing the communities opinion of them.
I'm not surprised people are defending the police, and even standing up for LGBTQ officers. I don't care about them, because when they put on that uniform they are choosing who they represent, and historically and currently, it's not the LGBTQ community. They can come without their uniform if they want to attend.
Speaking, personally, I think the police will be included and again Black people, Black trans women and other trans women of color (disproportionally targeted by police) will be thrown to the wayside. How quickly people forget if it wasn't for them, they wouldn't have any rights.
Any comparison of BLM and the Police is completely disjointed, please show me the numbers that show that BLM has systemic influence like police.
And as other posters have said, if you are valuing police over pride, pride events have lost their meaning, and need to disappear.
As a Black member of the LGBTQ community, it's dishearting to see anyone rush to defend the police. I don't feel safe around them, even if they happen to be in the same so-called community. And they can change their reputation, they refuse to and would rather whine than address issues that get people profiled and even killed.
Police are 100% responsible for their own reputation. There is no argument about that, period. If Black and other double minorities feel unsafe around them, that's not their problem, because it's the police who created the tone, environment, and reaction.
If the police were really invested in changing a narrative, they would have sent a letter showcasing how they changed within their own police force and how attitudes and tactics are being changed within the police force, so that minorities don't have to be fearful. They didn't do that. They should have sat out this pride and worked on changing the communities opinion of them.
I'm not surprised people are defending the police, and even standing up for LGBTQ officers. I don't care about them, because when they put on that uniform they are choosing who they represent, and historically and currently, it's not the LGBTQ community. They can come without their uniform if they want to attend.
Speaking, personally, I think the police will be included and again Black people, Black trans women and other trans women of color (disproportionally targeted by police) will be thrown to the wayside. How quickly people forget if it wasn't for them, they wouldn't have any rights.
Any comparison of BLM and the Police is completely disjointed, please show me the numbers that show that BLM has systemic influence like police.
And as other posters have said, if you are valuing police over pride, pride events have lost their meaning, and need to disappear.
As a Black member of the LGBTQ community, it's dishearting to see anyone rush to defend the police. I don't feel safe around them, even if they happen to be in the same so-called community. And they can change their reputation, they refuse to and would rather whine than address issues that get people profiled and even killed.
I speak for no one but myself and I don't pretend I know what major groups of people as a whole feel. I have an opinion on what I think they should do. I think this whole mess is making everyone involved look like fucking idiots. I think they should come together like normal people and stop making demands and try and come up with a solution. I never said how anyone should or should not feel. I said what I feel the right thing to do is and I feel banning anyone or group for showing support in pride is stupid and a mistake. There are plenty of ways to address society's problems.
excelsiorlef
Member
Once more with feeling: Many BLM folk are in fact queer folk, this is not an outside group, they are some of the most vulnerable members of our queer community...
This is black queer folk talking...
That's all well and nice, now get specific. What does 'Do right' by marginalized groups entail? Have a clear, realistic goal and then maybe I can support it.
excelsiorlef
Member
It's pretty fucked up how frequently the police are spoken about as being part of the community while black queer folk are erased, and thus rendering BLM as outsiders looking to co-opt pride.
I was just about to edit this into my post. It fucking infuriating.
Police taking part in the LGBT parade seems like such a positive thing though. Especially for those LGBT within the force who want to show it's okay to be who they are and be accepted within the police organization. Letting these people proudly march may help build acceptance within what is normally consider a more toxic/masculinity-focus work environment and build good will with the community. I suppose I understand BLM's motive, but it comes across as just very negative and counterproductive since LGBT parades seem to celebrate acceptance and inclusiveness. Outright banning police floats (who have been participants for years now) seems to be a rather hostile stance.
indigo lily
Member
100% agree. And the bolded is the inevitable outcome.
1. What they did is literally in the spirit of Pride.
2. This wasn't out of nowhere on BLM TO's part, people knew this would happen well in advance of the protest.
I sincerely do not get why BLM TO is getting dragged for their (completely reasonable) demands that aim to improve conditions for LGBTQ+ folks at the parade when the police are saying they want Pride to be defunded because they don't get a chance to boost their image without actually changing their discriminatory behavior against them.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
In fairness, times and attitudes have changed. You realize how absurd it would be if we held an entity to what happened in the past? We would never be capable of moving on and bettering ourselves.
I didn't write that you said anything about how PoC should or shouldn't feel. I wrote that you, a person who is seemingly not a PoC is telling PoC what they should be doing.
Which is quite ironic when you post nonsense like this: " You nor BLM speak for POC"
The police still aint shit
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
This whole event looks poisoned now.
indigo lily
Member
I had to edit my post too. And I know that after all is said and done the police union will get their way and we will be told to stay in our corner moreso now. It's sad and exhausting.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
They still have a long way to go (but that's the case for any entity really, they are always evolving), but last I checked, I don't recall the current police force going after bathhouses the way they did in the 80s. I mean after all, Saunders did come out and apologized when no other chief (iirc) did.
Gotdatmoney
Member
The Toronto Police have had to change kicking and screaming as recent as last year with carding. I'm sorry but people need to stop this bullshit with the police, especially the Toronto police being this fire organization of angels and well doers. They aren't
firehawk12
Subete no aware
The Toronto police are just figuring out that maybe carding random people isn't a good idea.
Shit like this is why you have a queer student union and a black queer student union on the same college campus.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
lol
Pride in 2017 is basically a tourist event now.
That's fine, but it's gone from awareness protest to basically another weekend to get money from out of towners.
Leaving aside the fact that the police continue to represent the discrimination of minorities, including the LGBTQ+ community, having the police featured in a positive light is ignorant at best when you know Pride's history. It's the Canadian equivalent of having a float reserved for Jim Clark on the anniversary of the march on Selma.
BLM TO is a hate group. That is not the spirit of Pride.
Many people dislike them because they will call anyone racist if they don't agree with them. I have also heard that they have stolen money from U of T students to fund BLM TO. Blaming everything on white people.
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