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Trump risks major diplomatic dispute with China after speaking with Taiwan's prez
- Thread starter chadskin
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1) So?
2) Nobody knows the real population of North Korea or how many died in the famine or how many want to leave their country or how many are really starving now or what the koreans want
I get what you're saying. Trump is and has been a wild card throughout his candidacy. Should we believe that him taking a phone call from Taiwan has further implications? Should we write it off as him not knowing wtf? I'm no Trump fan and have severe reservations about his presidency, but as someone that gets paid to help large companies navigate large dollar negotiations I cannot think of a better opening volley in our trade discussions with China than reaffirming ties with Taiwan.
It's just not relevant.
That's Trumps appeal isnt it? He's boorish and ignorant but he's not a politician so he doesn't think like one. Of course all the politicians will understand that China controls Taiwan just like Israel controls Palestine and is backed by the US so we don't speak about these things
Tragicomedy
Member
Just want to point out that China does not control Taiwan.
Veep is brilliant. And yes, it is much closer to reality just base on the stuff that happens in Veep is based on realistic human vices like greed, selfishness, and sheer incompetence. House of Cards is way overly dramatic with more sinister, devious, and brilliantly evil. That's not reality.
Not every bad politician is Ted Cruz. They're mostly Louie Gohmert.
If anything... US controls Taiwan.
Everything the president of the United States does or says is foreign policy.
The newly elected president of the United States is criticizing the New York Times on Twitter? Autocratic leaders around the world are loving that.
Green lighting Trump business deals gets you praise and adoration in the media from the newly elected president of the United States? Corrupt politicians are daydreaming already.
Haphazardly toying with the diplomatic relationship of China? Leaders of other Asian countriea are worrying their relationships with the US can be betrayed.
This shit matters. Even if nothing negative ever comes of this situation, the process that led to the decision was reckless.
The newly elected president of the United States is criticizing the New York Times on Twitter? Autocratic leaders around the world are loving that.
Green lighting Trump business deals gets you praise and adoration in the media from the newly elected president of the United States? Corrupt politicians are daydreaming already.
Haphazardly toying with the diplomatic relationship of China? Leaders of other Asian countriea are worrying their relationships with the US can be betrayed.
This shit matters. Even if nothing negative ever comes of this situation, the process that led to the decision was reckless.
Having lived there. Taiwan seems pretty independent.
Taiwan is in a very complicated situation politically, if you lived there you should know that.
Atraveller
Banned
It's an independent country that lacks only global recognition.
eh you know what I mean, in the sense that everyone looks to China to see how to deal with it
Chaos2Frozen
Member
1) So it's stupid to say 'free Taiwan'. The situation in Taiwan is not that.
2) The North Koreans don't want unification mostly because they're too brainwashed, the South Koreans don't want unification mostly because they don't want to deal with millions of starving people. What do you think is going to happen if you force the people from these two countries together? The odd defector here and there is not the same as taking in a whole country.
ClayKavalier
Banned
He made the same gestures once while mocking Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz is not disabled in any way, so it's silly to think Trump was mocking the reporter's disability. I'm no great fan of Trump and I'll be first in line to call him out when he does anything offensive, but the facts of the matter are that he was not mocking the reporter's disability.
Stolen from an acquaintance's "conservative" blog.
It's not only the starving people. If the Koreas unified then South Korea's economy would go in a recession that would last generations just trying to fix up North Korea's ~1950's level infrastructure.
Do not disagree about it being complicated. And there are many people there who probably identify themselves as being more Chinese than Taiwanese. But my point stands, the country runs independently and in many ways is culturally very different to China.
1) No, it's not stupid to side with freedom. I hate fascism and police states. Sorry to disagree with you
2) I see you have talked to a lot of north koreans
2.1) I have seen Berlin wall going down, didnt go too bad.
chillybright
Banned
Next up: Trump acknowledges the Native American genocide.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
That too but I get the feeling it's hard enough trying to explain the "starving millions" part as it is lol.
1) I don't think you understand- Taiwan is not currently being oppressed like what you think. They have their own government independent of Mainland China.
2) Yes, I've in fact spoken to a very intelligent Korean lady who has a strong grasp of the political and social situation of both countries there beyond labeling things good or evil. I have listened to her explanation and it makes sense.
Atraveller
Banned
It still is, in every possible diplomatic way.
radios shipping overview
Member
And the Armenian genocide. And calls up anti-Kremlin forces in South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Donbass, and Crimea.
And begins proceedings for slavery reparations, for the hell of it.
You can't always do what you feel to be the right thing all the time, on the national or international stages. And there are certain expectations for how a head of state can behave versus how, say, members of the State Department can negotiate diplomatically.
chillybright
Banned
Just yesterday Xi met Henry Kissinger to discuss China-U.S. ties
Yep. Kissinger must be so mad right now.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Did I call it? Time will tell xD
Edit: Maybe China is the one that's trying to play him LOL
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Let's see, so far we have:
1. Openly questioning our support for NATO, our safeguard against nuclear war with Russia;
2. Clearly receiving help from Russia during the election, the country with the most nukes in the world;
3. Fucking around with Pakistani-India relations, both armed to the teeth with nukes over Kashmir;
4. Fucking around with China with Taiwan, not only armed with nukes but also owns much of our debt and generally stands with us in the UN against North Korea, itself a nuclear threat.
I don't know how this isn't intentional. This man and/or his advisors want World War III. They want to end the world.
1. Openly questioning our support for NATO, our safeguard against nuclear war with Russia;
2. Clearly receiving help from Russia during the election, the country with the most nukes in the world;
3. Fucking around with Pakistani-India relations, both armed to the teeth with nukes over Kashmir;
4. Fucking around with China with Taiwan, not only armed with nukes but also owns much of our debt and generally stands with us in the UN against North Korea, itself a nuclear threat.
I don't know how this isn't intentional. This man and/or his advisors want World War III. They want to end the world.
GregLombardi
Member
They want to distract people with the end of the world while they steal money from every coffer imaginable.
Also, Donald is clearly Kefka. So I agree with the general hypothesis of your post.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
Lol pretty much how people predicted his presidency would be like. Not even officially president yet.
Can't wait till his penchant for bullshitting gets him in trouble with the rest of the world.
Can't wait till his penchant for bullshitting gets him in trouble with the rest of the world.
Are you serious?
Did East Berliners suffer multiple decades of starvation?
Did East Berliners suffer such massive malnourishment that their children were a whole two inches shorter than West Berliners?
Were East Berliners so cut off from the world that they had no contact with any other nation including the ones in the Soviet Bloc.
This literally like comparing Post-war Japan to current Afghanistan. Read a damn book.
This bullshit narrative has nothing to do with Taiwan or its people.
What is the narrative and how is it bullshit?
The Taiwan thing is only one moment in a pattern of behavior that is worrying people. That's the point he's making.
"They want to end the world."
The only reason this narrative is being pushed is that Trump is moving through international politics with all the grace of a Florida-man on PCP.
Does he really want to end the world?
Probably not.
Is he acting like he wants to?
Yes.
In an ideal world they'd be both individual states and we'd have optimal relationships with both. But we don't live in an ideal world and the US can't dictate foreign policy for every nation even if it is for the greater good. It's the realism we have to deal with. Purely ideological beliefs get you nowhere ultimately, they feel good though so there's that.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Wait, are we talking about Taiwan or Trump's campaign?
What exactly are you expecting from your real estate salesman turned President? Also is it kind of working?
Fenderputty
Banned
Assuming a Trump supporter might understand anything with nuance is where you went wrong
So you're saying Taiwan should lose our number?
Working? In what way? Obama had to clean up his mess. You think it was coincidence the White House came out with that comment that they did? That China said what they did? Between the White House and China they managed to clean up Trump's mess, but he's not going to have Obama playing spotter for him forever. He's going to have to play this game without a net soon and he's shown no ability to do so.
The man thinks NATO is just a protection scheme that needs to be run by a better gangster. He maneuvers through foreign policy with all the grace of a herd of rampaging buffalo. We're going to be lucky to come out of his presidency without him inadvertently starting a war.
Not sure if you caught the memo, but it seems like Trump reaffirmed ties with Taiwan and China did jack shit.
I'm saying the cause and effect of any change to current policy needs to be carefully considered before it's done. It doesn't appear that was the case here. Look if this was well thought out and with assistance with knowledgeable State Department or foreign policy folks in general. Then it could a valid move but st least we'd know there'd be a next step. It doesn't even appear that the White House knew this was happening.
Sticking it to China sounds good on paper, I'm just not arrogant enough to believe that America can upend 40 years of established procedure with zero consequence. Basically it's the unpreparedness of the whole situation that just makes me wary. Then again I heard Trump met with Kissinger after his win so maybe something was discussed then. Who knows.
Exactly what do you want us to do? Fight China?
China isn't Trump. They dont mind waiting to enact retribution.
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