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[Bronx-Man]

Dude hasn't even taken office yet and he's already fracturing diplomatic relationships.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

We live in a global economy where China's economy absolutely hinges on a strong US economy.

There isn't really an historical precedent for that.

Everyone should remember this post when Trump tries to re-impose sanctions on Iran and the Chinese response is lolololol.

 

[Szu]

TAIWAN NUMBER ONE!!!!

 

[Banana Aeon]

Would you look at that (from two weeks ago)...

WHO WOULD HAVE SAW THIS COMING?

 

[uncredited male]

Someone should ask him if he liked the movie Seven Years in Tibet.

 

[ClosingADoor]

While I am not opposed to the US (and other countries) having better relations with Taiwan, even if it upsets China, he shouldn't be doing major things like this before he is in office and is briefed on everything surrounding the situation.

 

[Dan]

Good.

Talking to Taiwan shouldn't be a big deal in the first place.

Maybe it shouldn't be, but that doesn't mean doing so all willy-nilly is a smart move.

 

[Maximus.]

Would you look at that (from two weeks ago)...

No no no, Hillary is the corrupt one silly.

 

[Balphon]

I'd be all for reconsidering the One China policy.

But that would take time and a careful approach. Trump is just doing shit willy nilly because he either doesn't know better or doesn't care.

This is what, the third time he's carelessly caused a diplomatic stir in as many days? I imagine he'll deal with Taiwan once he's finished inserting the US into the conflict over Kashmir.

 

[DudeWithNoName]

no he doesn't

don's a dummy through and through

Trump didn't just randomly call up the Taiwanese. This had a purpose.

 

[Yamauchi]

In a ideal world? Sure.

In a world in which we RELY on China? No. We need China more than China needs us. Our economy would be in shambles without China.

This is the definition of groveling. The US federal government is pissed (REALLY pissed) that China is building artificial islands in international waters that will serve as permanent military bases, will unilaterally annex territory, and will expand China's national borders. Did this risk a serious row with the US? Yes. Did China care? No.

US law dictates that Taiwan is to be treated as a major non-NATO ally. US law dictates that Taiwan is to receive advanced weaponry for defensive purposes against Chinese aggression. President-elect Trump talking to President Tsai is not a fundamental re-alignment. It is not the equivalent of officially switching diplomatic recognition to Taiwan.

 

[chadskin]

oh god oh god oh god

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

That's my guess. But I'm guessing someone in his transition team did know, and deliberately wanted to provoke China for whatever reason.

it would be the easiest way to get them to throw a hissy fit and drop the Paris climate change agreements. Which would then be used as 'see, told ya' by the GOP.
Assuming there is any kind of thought behind it, this would be "a work" as you wrestle people like calling it.

I think it's more likely he trying to get customer support on something that has "made in Taiwan" on though. Maybe scam them into paying a return when it still works. Because, and I do quote: "That makes me smart".

 

[chillybright]

Trump has been pushing China's button for a long time, but this one is definitely too much.

 

[jstripes]

Let’s dispel once and for all with this fiction that Donald Trump doesn’t know what he’s doing. He knows exactly what he’s doing.

No. He doesn't.

Someone called him to stroke his ego, and he accepted the call.

 

[Vena]

oh god oh god oh god

Uhhh....

This is not good. Electoral College, please save us from this idiocy before we find ourselves in a crippling trade war.

 

[Crayon]

Most of them probably don't know what Taiwan is or where it is if they do. And they certainly have no idea about past or current relationships and politics. Most. I know there are smart Trump supporters, sad as that is.

It doesn't matter what Trump does, though. That's clear. If he pisses off China they'll be happy he's "taking control and showing who's boss!" And if he makes a deal with China it'll be fine because he's "making our economy great again and bringing back jobs" somehow.

It really doesn't matter what he says or does. They will -always- find a way to spin it positively. He could shit on their lawn and they'd be grateful for the free fertilizer.

What matters is what the rest of us and the world think and how we/they react to this and everything else he does. No matter how little of a difference it will make, for now.

Thank you for putting that last line there. I was feeling that pit of despair again.

 

[Red]

Does this dude seriously think you can just tell everyone how great they are and how much you like them and that's how you fix the world?

 

[ReAxion]

he's going to open a resort on the Liancourt Rocks and call it US territory to piss off Korea and Japan.

 

[Atom Heart Mother]

I don't see the big deal, Taiwan is a country too and should be allowed to speak to us. Kudos to Trump to doing it. It might fracture some ties with China but we have to stop just turning a blind eye towards places like Taiwan.

 

[Frozenprince]

While I'm sure this won't lead to anything because gaffs like this happened before Trump and will happen after Trump.

It's still deliriously fucking stupid that a man like Trump who's interests in his business were global wouldn't fucking know the difference and strife between Taiwan and the mainland.

 

[SaintR]

This seems to be a topic where there seems to be divisiveness on how to react to it(other than obvious Trump pandering from supporters). Maybe someone could shed led light on the Taiwan/China situation and why this could be seen as good or bad.

 

[MLCodest]

I'm all for a discussion on Taiwan, but hastily making decisions like this isn't going to help anyone here.

 

[jstripes]

I don't see the big deal, Taiwan is a country too and should be allowed to speak to us. Kudos to Trump to doing it. It might fracture some ties with China but we have to stop just turning a blind eye towards places like Taiwan.

These things need to be eased into. Diplomatic relations can be very subtle and sensitive.

Think of how much went on behind the scenes simply to reopen relations with Cuba. Then Trump tweets "Fidel Castro is dead!"

It's like when the idiot president of France came to Canada in the '60s, and said "Vive le Quebec libre!" That set off a huge fucking problem that lasted decades.

 

[TAJ]

Does this dude seriously think you can just tell everyone how great they are and how much you like them and that's how you fix the world?

It's the Chinpokemon strategy.

 

[Sirpopopop]

I'm not concerned about the call, so much as the process that lead to him accepting the call.

 

[dramatis]

Sigh.

You write like a politican. Can't answer my question.

There's only one goddamn thing I want to know: describe the "far left", what does the "far left" believe in?

Don't be a pot calling the kettle black, you also don't answer questions when it doesn't suit you.

The far-left believes in personality politics. Unless they get the one candidate of their choice, then all other candidates are equally bad in their eyes, regardless of actual policy positions or words or deeds. They are inclined to support candidates out of emotions rather than out of policy.

You actually demonstrated this in a previous thread too, if I remember correctly.



Regarding China, I think it's going to be a long 4 years. Trump's only 'Asia' policy was 'no TPP', the question is how will he handle that sphere when China is standing on even or possibly higher ground than the US in the Pacific.

 

[tuxfool]

I don't see the big deal, Taiwan is a country too and should be allowed to speak to us. Kudos to Trump to doing it. It might fracture some ties with China but we have to stop just turning a blind eye towards places like Taiwan.

Yeeaaa, suuuure.

Never mind the fact that he is doing it for stupid reasons, in a stupid way.

 

[Atom Heart Mother]

These things need to be eased into. Diplomatic relations can be very subtle and sensitive.

Think of how much went on behind the scenes simply to reopen relations with Cuba. Then Trump tweets "Fidel Castro is dead!"

Oh yeah, definitely. I agree it needs to be eased into, but I'm just glad something is happening. I get what you mean.

 

[Frozenprince]

I'm hopeful that they nominate Romney for SoS so he can spend the next month saying sorry, at least.

If not yeah this might be an issue.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I'm hopeful that they nominate Romney for SoS so he can spend the next four years saying sorry, at least.

Fixed.

 

[Iksenpets]

I don't see the big deal, Taiwan is a country too and should be allowed to speak to us. Kudos to Trump to doing it. It might fracture some ties with China but we have to stop just turning a blind eye towards places like Taiwan.

No one is turning a blind eye towards Taiwan. We have plenty of relations with Taiwan. We have full trade with them, full military relations, diplomacy just has to be handled delicately through back channels. You're not going to get anything more with Taiwan by doing this, you're just going to piss off China.

 

[Frozenprince]

Fixed.

Fair.

 

[maquiladora]

This is hilarious about also kinda dumb.

I mean, the US has signed a pact with Taiwan that requires the US military to intervene and defend Taiwan against a Chinese attack...

Just speaking on the phone to the leader of Taiwan really pales in significance compared to the existence of the Taiwan Relations Act.

 

[Theonik]

Trump has to respect the One-China-Policy.

Not when resorts are waiting to be built no.

I'm fairly unfamiliar with the Taiwan/ROC recognition dispute. Is there any actual reason why we shouldn't have improved relations with Taiwan outside of just keeping the PRC happy?

That's the big one. The US and most of the western world didn't recognise the PRC for years after the revolution, considering the Chinese government in exile to be the legitimate China. Eventually they had to back down. The US changing policy there is akin to the whole Cuba affair to put it closer to US terms.

LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE CRITICISM OF HILLARY CLINTON HE HAD HE IS DOING

Trump accused Hilary of all those things because those were the things a smart person such as himself would do with all that power. Why wouldn't you?

 

[tuxfool]

This is hilarious about also kinda dumb.

I mean, the US has signed a pact with Taiwan that requires the US military to intervene and defend Taiwan against a Chinese attack...

Just speaking on the phone to the leader of Taiwan really pales in significance compared to the existence of the Taiwan Relations Act.

Certainly, but this is highly emblematic of the way he conducts himself, and it is liable to cause real problems.

 

[GoutPatrol]

Trump didn't just randomly call up the Taiwanese. This had a purpose.

Pretty sure Trump still thinks about Our China and Their China.

 

[Xe4]

TBH, I have no problem with him talking to Taiwan in theory. China needs to be told whats up regarding Taiwan, and I have no problem with a US president doing just that.

I have a problem with it probably being about his business intrests though.

 

[Carpe Carnim]

Trump didn't just randomly call up the Taiwanese. This had a purpose.

Of course it had a purpose. Taiwanese interests lobbied people in Trump's orbit to accept the call, to see if he was dumb enough to cause international tremors at the behest of foreign powers. He is.

This is catnip for every terrorist group and friend/foe alike to dangle bait in his face in hopes of ill-informed tactical flailing on the US's part. This is like starting a chess match by sacrificing all your pawns and bishops in hopes your stupidity is mistaken for guile.

 

[jstripes]

Of course it had a purpose. Taiwanese interests lobbied people in Trump's orbit to accept the call, to see if he was dumb enough to cause international tremors at the behest of foreign powers. He is.

I doubt it was even that complicated. He was probably in Trump Tower, his secretary, who probably has no clue about geopolitics, probably said "the President of Taiwan is on the phone to congratulate you", and he took the call, eager to be praised.

Honestly, if the head of the Palestinian Authority called to congratulate him, he'd probably accept that call too, and tell them how wonderful they are.

 

[chillybright]

This is hilarious about also kinda dumb.

I mean, the US has signed a pact with Taiwan that requires the US military to intervene and defend Taiwan against a Chinese attack...

Just speaking on the phone to the leader of Taiwan really pales in significance compared to the existence of the Taiwan Relations Act.

That was in the 1970s when China was dirt poor and had zero economic significance to the rest of the world.

This is now.

 

[Breads]

US don't care.

(as well they shouldn't)

 

[Makonero]

I doubt it was even that complicated. He was probably in Trump Tower, his secretary, who probably has no clue about geopolitics, probably said "the President of Taiwan is on the phone to congratulate you", and he took the call, eager to be praised.

Honestly, if the head of the Palestinian Authority called to congratulate him, he'd probably accept that call too, and tell them how wonderful they are.

Yep. If ISIS called and said they were happy (and went by another, less obvious name) he would take the call.

Don's a dummy.

 

[Totakeke]

 

[Rektash]

TBH, I have no problem with him talking to Taiwan in theory. China needs to be told whats up regarding Taiwan, and I have no problem with a US president doing just that.

I have a problem with it probably being about his business intrests though.

That's not how international relations work though. If you tell people what's up, they will react and show you what's up as well. Countries don't just eat stuff up.They will reply in kind. Especially so when you deal with a China that sees itself as an equal on the world stage.

You can't just bully around actors like China and expect to get away with it unscathed.

 

[Permanently A]

Trump on that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" shit

Trump also on that "let's start WW3 asap" shit

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

It's going to be four years of gaffes, blunders, and ignorance.

"What do you mean you have to know stuff to be president?"

 

[Chmpocalypse]

China won't do shit to us about this, they depend on us way to much. They will grovel and complain, but in the end they won't do anything. Not to mention the have virtually no Navy so it isn't like they could act out on us any way.

Yeah yeah, USA USA USA etc

Same tired bullshit. Get some new rhetoric.

 

[thefro]

This is probably something Trump can actually get away with in the short-term.

China's going to have no clue what he's actually going to do, so it's hard to aggressively react.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

China won't do shit to us about this, they depend on us way to much. They will grovel and complain, but in the end they won't do anything. Not to mention the have virtually no Navy so it isn't like they could act out on us any way.

I don't think you know what grovel means