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[louiedog]

Game must suck if Ubisoft spent that kind of money on bribery.

They're like $200. I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually quite a bit cheaper than some of the small batches of things that get manufactured or customized and sent out, like cases covered in branding and containing a bunch of items related to the game that aren't sold at retail. They only make a few hundred of those and on that scale I can see them spending much more than $200 each. The art team in house could have themed up a Nexus 7 in between their work on the main game and starting on what I assume is inevitable DLC.

That said, it's much nicer and more attractive to a games journalist I'm sure to get a Nexus 7 than some stupid lamp or box of junk that gets tossed in a closet.

 

[20cent]

This kind of event always have such "bribery", not only in the high court of professional gaming journalism.

By the way, websites, magazines, etc... even your beloved favorite youtubers get games to review for free. Is that bribery too?

 

[inm8num2]

I don't pay much attention to reviews these days.

I got my Gaffy-bros instead.

I've got some GAF Gold with your name on it.

 

[unbias]

And you knew about it, from him telling you, before he even started talking about his opinion. Even he says that's enough for some people to totally discredit his opinion, and he's right.

Disclosure is the biggest issue, bias being secondary. At least with disclosure you know opinions can be more favoritable then they should be and account for it in your own opinion.

And with boogie he also made it very clear that if he had something bad to say, it would be said regardless of if it meant no more promotions. That's integrity and he seems to have stuck to it, even if it still cause bias.

That's working withing this crappy system with morals and intergity and transparency. There's still issues, but at least its all laid out on the table for each person to make up their own opinion, which is the fair thing to do. It also doesn't make what publishers are doing right. But its at least more respectful to readers and fans, and acknowledges they're not just sheeple.

Not to mention I doubt many people tune into boggie for his reviews...outside of the entertainment factor. Him doing a review is advertisement for sony no doubt, and in that you shouldnt take his opinion too seriously, but if in those video's you see something you like then by all means. The problem is this mindshare in aggregate is very good at misleading consumers and isnt tied to just games.

 

[farisr]

This is the real issue here. They couldn't pony up for iPads?

haha

Personally to me, working in tech support, I assosciate iPads with grandmas and nexus 7s with techies. Since Watch Dogs is supposed to be techie, it makes sense to me.

 

[Dawg]

They're like $200. I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually quite a bit cheaper than some of the small batches of things that get manufactured or customized and sent out, like cases covered in branding and containing a bunch of items related to the game that aren't sold at retail. They only make a few hundred of those and on that scale I can see them spending much more than $200 each. The art team in house could have themed up a Nexus 7 in between their work on the main game and starting on what I assume is inevitable DLC.

That said, it's much nicer and more attractive to a games journalist I'm sure to get a Nexus 7 than some stupid lamp or box of junk that gets tossed in a closet.

ehehehehe

Spoiler

I got a Watch_Dogs cube lamp

 

[lt519]

I'm an engineer and I make decisions on which vendors to use for sub components on our systems, which can sell thousands and make the vendors millions. The vendors throw sporting event tickets, shows, lunches, dinners and holiday baskets at me. My company has government approved rules on what is acceptable to take. I have not once used a company that has given me a gift; because in the end they haven't had the best product.

It's up to the reviewers to not let it influence them, subliminally or not. This is a completely normal practice; on top of the fact that they were probably given to show the companion app. The costs to give them out, get them back, pre-pay for shipping, inventory and then let them sit there and waste away outweighs them just giving them away permanently.

Just find an honest reviewer to follow, problem solved.

 

[mclem]

You mean a journalist? Yeah.

We get the journalism we deserve, just not the journalism we need.

 

[iratA]

I'm not sure what your overall point is? Are you trying to argue this stuff doesn't effect people?

No. I was not arguing about its effectiveness one way or the other. Sorry I was referring in-part to the flow of conversations I've been having with many in this thread. I'm trying to demonstrate that this sort of practice is common place. You can find very similar kinds of situations inside many industries, including within the media industry themselves.

 

[Dr Dogg]

This is the real issue here. They couldn't pony up for iPads?

Hahaha. Oh I'm sure they have them set aside for tougher cases to crack.

Actually what's the most frivolous thing Kotaku has been offered if you don't mind me asking? Probably better not answer though as you won't hear the end of it for months

 

[lt519]

haha

Personally to me, working in tech support, I assosciate iPads with grandmas and nexus 7s with techies. Since Watch Dogs is supposed to be techie, it makes sense to me.

Meh, I think the iPads are superior tablets. I do have a Nexus 5 though. You get the best of both worlds. Nexus tablets are certainly more fun to tinker with though.

 

[20cent]

I'm an engineer and I make decisions on which vendors to use for sub components on our systems, which can sell thousands and make the vendors millions. The vendors throw sporting event tickets, shows, lunches, dinners and holiday baskets at me. My company has government approved rules on what is acceptable to take. I have not once used a company that has given me a gift; because in the end they haven't had the best product.

It's up to the reviewers to not let it influence them, subliminally or not. This is a completely normal practice; on top of the fact that they were probably given to show the companion app. The costs to give them out, get them back, pre-pay for shipping, inventory and then let them sit there and waste away outweighs them just giving them away permanently.

Just find an honest reviewer to follow, problem solved.

amen.

 

[unbias]

This kind of event always have such "bribery", not only in the high court of professional gaming journalism.

By the way, websites, magazines, etc... even your beloved favorite youtubers get games to review for free. Is that bribery too?

It's free advertisement and marketing that would have to screw a game journalists perspective in terms of video games and the cost associated with gaming. They may understand how expensive it is, seeing as they are by no means rich, but you still lose perspective. In that regard consumers will always be the better go to for price point, quality, and length in terms of worth purchasing.

 

[Vice]

Have you heard of the term "feature articles"?

A lot of mainstream media use feature articles as a guise to put a spotlight on what may otherwise not have been worthy of a write up, ie they are paid for. Many feature articles are presented as providing general information either to the public or that publications viewers. However it is not uncommon for companies, products or services to seen in these Feature Articles. In this case substitute features with press previews.

Feature articles, from what I have seen, are not paid for. The wroters typically just find the subjects interesting or worth knowing about. Esstentially everything can be news worthy, features are just outside of the need to know range of news.

 

[SlowRevolution]

ehehehehe

Spoiler

I got a Watch_Dogs cube lamp

the thought process and intense consumer analysis that lead to a lamp as swag must have been kind of fantastic

or some ubisoft guy's uncle just has a failing cube lamp business

 

[Portugeezer]

Watch_Dogs

The hype was real

 

[jschreier]

Are £200 tablets really given out that often that it's not newsworthy anymore? Plus being a games journalist over the years, I'm sure you have access to more contacts who can shed a better light on this story than the average person on here.

Have you seen this piece? http://kotaku.com/metacritic-matters-how-review-scores-hurt-video-games-472462218

It's good that people are talking about this stuff -- 5 years ago it all just went unnoticed -- but Kotaku doesn't often report on Game Journalism Issues unless they're big, broad, noteworthy, interesting to more than just hardcore gamers, etc. I'm not sure this fits the bill. There are definitely grosser practices out there. (See: the piece I just linked.)

 

[farisr]

Meh, I think the iPads are superior tablets. I do have a Nexus 5 though. You get the best of both worlds. Nexus tablets are certainly more fun to tinker with though.

I didn't mean to imply something about the quality of the tablets, just basically the users calling in that have them. So many old people call in with ipads, etc that I started to assosciate them with non-tech people.

I know this is flawed, it's because ipads are much more widespread, are gotten as gifts for older relatives (rather than the nexus 7 or anything else) which is the reason I receive so many of those calls.

The times I've had to in some fashion deal with the nexus 7, it was almost always a person technologically knowledgeable person that just needed info for company specific settings. Hence why I started associating iPADs with non-techies and Nexus with techies.

 

[unbias]

I'm an engineer and I make decisions on which vendors to use for sub components on our systems, which can sell thousands and make the vendors millions. The vendors throw sporting event tickets, shows, lunches, dinners and holiday baskets at me. My company has government approved rules on what is acceptable to take. I have not once used a company that has given me a gift; because in the end they haven't had the best product.

It's up to the reviewers to not let it influence them, subliminally or not. This is a completely normal practice; on top of the fact that they were probably given to show the companion app. The costs to give them out, get them back, pre-pay for shipping, inventory and then let them sit there and waste away outweighs them just giving them away permanently.

Just find an honest reviewer to follow, problem solved.

But as an engineer what you do has very little subjectivity to it in terms of performance and cost. Games are almost completely subjective in taste and performance(outside of bugs and ect). All the advertisement and marketing that gets thrown at someone does effect them, subjectively, however you are in less of position where it can effect you in the same way. I would also add though, just because a person says they have always been completely objective, even in your field, by no means proves this fact nor does it mean that because you dont Joe X engineer does not. Also, I dont think gamers care about what game reviewers do, because of the effect on them, more so then the effect they have on the uninformed consumer. And again, the fact that these companies do this means it does work to a degree large enough that they keep doing it, even in your field.

 

[jschreier]

Hahaha. Oh I'm sure they have them set aside for tougher cases to crack.

Actually what's the most frivolous thing Kotaku has been offered if you don't mind me asking? Probably better not answer though as you won't hear the end of it for months

Oh, I have no idea. I don't deal with this stuff all that much.

I've heard all sorts of ridiculous junket stories though, from helicopter rides to sports car races to... well, there was a Duke Nukem Forever preview at an actual strip club, which I can only hope will never, ever happen again.

 

[APF]

Have you heard of the term "feature articles"?

A lot of mainstream media use feature articles as a guise to put a spotlight on what may otherwise not have been worthy of a write up

Features are typically longer-form articles that are not specifically tied to any one particular news event. They're not "unworthy" of a write-up, that's completely backwards. The point is to give in-depth coverage of things that aren't necessarily news (eg, the events leading to the closing of a studio, coverage of metacritic influencing studios, etc)

 

[unbias]

No. I was not arguing about its effectiveness one way or the other. Sorry I was referring in-part to the flow of conversations I've been having with many in this thread. I'm trying to demonstrate that this sort of practice is common place. You can find very similar kinds of situations inside many industries, including within the media industry themselves.

Uh-huh and other industries are full of malinvestment as well.Just because it happens in other industries in no way means it is a good thing or what consumers should want.

 

[teiresias]

A) people who primarily write previews and reviews are game critics, not journalists
B) critics need a tablet to critique the second screen stuff. while most people have access to a tablet, there's probably enough people who wouldn't have enough access to one, or at least wouldn't have access to an ideal tablet (nexus or ipad) that they felt the need to give these out

B) if you're a critic in this vein either your employer should be providing you the appropriate hardware to do your job or, if you freelance, you should be writing it off as an expense on your taxes. What you shouldn't be doing is taking gifts.

 

[Lalalandia]

Have you seen this piece? http://kotaku.com/metacritic-matters-how-review-scores-hurt-video-games-472462218

It's good that people are talking about this stuff -- 5 years ago it all just went unnoticed -- but Kotaku doesn't often report on Game Journalism Issues unless they're big, broad, noteworthy, interesting to more than just hardcore gamers, etc. I'm not sure this fits the bill. There are definitely grosser practices out there. (See: the piece I just linked.)

It's a great piece Jason but that's about how journalism effects game creators not how the interaction between publishers and journalism effects the consumer. I understand that Kotaku is perhaps not the most appropriate venue for long form pieces such as this as they're a bit 'inside baseball' for the target audience but I would like to see a thoughtful piece like this on the topic of journalism and the publishers.

Of course you may never get the inside line again after so....

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

"Journalists" taking multi-thousand dollar vacations on publishers' dime = business as usual.

Journalists taking $200 gaming accessory from publishers = outrage.

If a company headhunted me and flew me out for an interview, I wouldn't consider that a bribe. If they then dropped off a company car at my hotel room pre-stocked with hookers and blow, I'd immediately think they were attempting to coerce my decision.

There are differences between obvious business expenses and well... Everything else.

 

[jschreier]

It's a great piece Jason but that's about how journalism effects game creators not how the interaction between publishers and journalism effects the consumer. I understand that Kotaku is perhaps not the most appropriate venue for long form pieces such as this as they're a bit 'inside baseball' for the target audience but I would like to see a thoughtful piece like this on the topic of journalism and the publishers.

Of course you may never get the inside line again after so....

Not sure I follow. What questions do you have that you want to see answered in a piece like that?

 

[Finalow]

lol Ubisoft. such an awful company.

Whose review can I trust now?

wait, you actually give credit to videogames reviews? Lol.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

For full disclosure, Sony sent us a PS4, retail copies of Knack & Killzone, a card for a year of PS+, two glasses with Playstation logos and a small bottle of wine with a Playstation logo (which I found funny because I don't drink). Also, EA sent us free digital codes for 4 PS4 games that they published (NFS, Battlefield, Madden, and FIFA). Some of this was sent to us out around the PS4 launch and the rest was given as a Christmas present to developers.

Obviously this tainted my opinion since I actually sort of liked Knack (and NFS but most people did). I didn't care for Killzone though. Not that this really matters since I didn't review any of the games outside a couple comments on twitter and this was all long after we had already agreed to release our new game on their platforms so it's not like they were trying to convince us to support Vita/PS4 at this point. But hey, free stuff! Woo!

 

[More Fun To Compute]

This kind of event always have such "bribery", not only in the high court of professional gaming journalism.

By the way, websites, magazines, etc... even your beloved favorite youtubers get games to review for free. Is that bribery too?

Some people only get involved to be part of the "scene" and get free games so it's not like there is not something questionable about it. Using terms like bribery is maybe taking it too seriously but the whole thing is disreputable.

Really it comes down to individual sites, or magazines lol, to try to convince use that they have something worth paying attention to.

 

[Nymphae]

Hahahaha

Those people are even more easily bought off because they aren't even journalist. Remember that whole shit storm with Microsoft and Machinima? That happens all the fucking time.

If you're trusting the "little guys" because they aren't directly part of the corporate machine you're in for a rude awakening. The little guys do anything to get a piece of the big pie.

I'm not sure why this is so funny. I can go to youtube the day a game is released, and see all kinds of people play and give impressions on it. I'm not taking their word for anything, any more than I would a professional "games journalist", but I get to see content from a wider range of people, with different viewpoints.

I don't like how wordy and faux-intellectual the journos get, I'm not into the intellectual wankery these guys engage in. They're fucking toys ffs. I just like seeing some gameplay vids, and hearing someone talk about it for a bit (this is why Giant Bomb quick looks are so appealing). Times 10 from different sources. At the end of al that, I have a good idea if something is worth my money personally.

I get the impression people read professional reviews, then immediately jump to forums to argue about said reviews. I don't know what other value they provide that you can't get elsewhere.

 

[antitrop]

well, there was a Duke Nukem Forever preview at an actual strip club, which I can only hope will never, ever happen again.

Good Christ, almighty.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

For full disclosure, Sony sent us a PS4, retail copies of Knack & Killzone, a card for a year of PS+, two glasses with Playstation logos and a small bottle of wine with a Playstation logo (which I found funny because I don't drink). Also, EA sent us free digital codes for 4 PS4 games that they published (NFS, Battlefield, Madden, and FIFA). Some of this was sent to us out around the PS4 launch and the rest was given as a Christmas present to developers.

Obviously this tainted my opinion since I actually sort of liked Knack (and NFS but most people did). I didn't care for Killzone though. Not that this really matters since I didn't review any of the games outside a couple comments on twitter and this was all long after we had already agreed to release our new game on their platforms so it's not like they were trying to convince us to support Vita/PS4 at this point. But hey, free stuff! Woo!

You probably would have hated Killzone instead of not caring for it. They have already gotten to you

 

[iratA]

Feature articles, from what I have seen, are not paid for. The wroters typically just find the subjects interesting or worth knowing about. Essentially everything can be news worthy, features are just outside of the need to know range of news.

Yes some are not paid for, and certainly most do fall out of the need to know range. The same could be said for press previews for just about any major consumer product launch including games.

I know for a fact that many major companies approach newspapers and the like to write feature articles about a particular facet within a industry. However many of these articles also have a very deliberate slant, bias or hidden agenda in highlighting something that is driving commercial interests. Different arrangements can be made in relation to who funds these articles and some are disclosed in fine print as 'Paid Advertisements'.

 

[Averon]

"Journalists" taking multi-thousand dollar vacations on publishers' dime = business as usual.

Journalists taking $200 gaming accessory from publishers = outrage.

Just because an unethical practice is "business as usual" doesn't make it any less unethical. It also doesn't make similar unethical practices "Ok".

 

[MHWilliams]

https://twitter.com/UbisoftUK/status/456101665347997696

And note, this entire thing was brought to light by journalists.

 

[RedNumberFive]

https://twitter.com/UbisoftUK/status/456101665347997696

And note, this entire thing was brought to light by journalists.

"Apologies for any confusion."

I don't think anyone is confused by what is going on here.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

lol at the confusion, no one was confused here

Though it was probably the marketing's fault so it is ok to throw them under the bus

 

[Skeff]

In an ideal world this would be watchdog branded and not a big deal because it wouldn't affect the reviews, but people aren't perfect and it may slightly affect some reviews consciously or subconsciously so it probably shouldn't be done, then again there's probably some journos now who got the free tablet and it just won't affect them at all, they'd still pan the game if it deserved it.

 

[TwoDurans]

When I pre-ordered the game I was guaranteed access to exclusive stuff. Should I turn that down? I wouldn't want it to affect how I feel about the game...

 

[APF]

Yes some are not paid for, and certainly most do fall out of the need to know range. The same could be said for press previews for just about any major consumer product launch including games.

I know for a fact that many major companies approach newspapers and the like to write feature articles about a particular facet within a industry. However many of these articles also have a very deliberate slant, bias or hidden agenda in highlighting something that is driving commercial interests. Different arrangements can be made in relation to who funds these articles and some are disclosed in fine print as 'Paid Advertisements'.

Those are called "ads." You are describing ads.

 

[Lalalandia]

Not sure I follow. What questions do you have that you want to see answered in a piece like that?

I'm interested in the extent of hospitality practices from major publishers and the differences between them, interviews with PRs from these firms and discussions of how they set the boundaries and what they regard as 'over the line'. It can be very revealing to see what kind of importance people on both sides of a transaction assign to a thing, it's not unheard of for one side to regard it as trivial and 'standard practice' but for the other to say 'If we don't do it we know that we'll get negative coverage'. It's probably just a personal fascination of mine but the business of how these things are presented is as interesting to me as the thing being presented.

 

[Hellshy.]

If I was in Ubisoft's position I would probably do the same thing. this reminds me of Sessler complaining that he didn't get a free ps4. Im sorry but many \game journalist are not the most mature professional reviewers in the world. I wouldn't be surprised if those reporting about this are only doing so b/c they think it will gain them favor with gamer's. It is also no different then any other entertainment industry. It sucks but catering to reviewers is not the only that influences their opinions. Id say getting free goodies is on the low end of influence. Having friends on the development team or childhood favorites probably win out over a free phone that you got before you pass judgement. Now if we were talking about sending phones to people who gave high scores Id be ready to get a little upset.

 

[unbias]

When I pre-ordered the game I was guaranteed access to exclusive stuff. Should I turn that down? I wouldn't want it to affect how I feel about the game...

Heh, that is probably the whole point of pre-order swag.

 

[Beaulieu]

can we stop using the term "gamin journalist" unless speaking about people writing for gamasutra or gamesindustry.biz ?

do people use the term "film jouranlists" ?

do they have press cards ?

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I don't know why this doesn't really bother me. I guess it's because if I was the journalist in that situation, I'd take the tablet, think to myself "Thanks for the free tablet Ubi", and that would be the end of it. If the tablet was an attempt to get a better score out of the review (and it probably is), it would be a waste of money as it wouldn't affect my enjoyment of the game other than it giving me the ability to mess with the second screen functionality. Personally, I don't subscribe to the mentality of gift giving subconsciously affecting your enjoyment of a game and if it consciously is and you don't recuse yourself, then that person was pretty untrustworthy to begin with and I think that would be pretty obvious from their past work. I can only speak for myself though, so I understand people's skepticism of the situation. I do think they should disclose that kind of info in any future opinion based coverage they're involved with so I can at least have that context.

 

[abstract alien]

Good lord this game is being burned before anyone can even see if they like it for themselves.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

It's one thing to giveaway free game merchandise and another to give something that is not even made by the company nor have any connectiom to the game itself beyond the 'special hacking phone' tenuous association. At least some journalists are pointinh these gifts out but it makes it difficult to trust reviewers and the gaming press. In the long run publishers might end up eroding the credibility of these reviews and good scores will impact a consumer's decision on whethee to buy or to give games a miss.

 

[iratA]

Uh-huh and other industries are full of malinvestment as well.Just because it happens in other industries in no way means it is a good thing or what consumers should want.

Malinvestment is a big call on this one. I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that all third party gifts should not be automatically considered bribes. Certainly not for known "events" such as this where promotional giveaways are common place. Its a matter of perspective and many people who are outsiders to particular industries just don't understand the nature of these things. Again I've seen far more expensive giveaways at events.

 

[Messofanego]

https://twitter.com/UbisoftUK/status/456101665347997696

And note, this entire thing was brought to light by journalists.

I like how they're trying to part the blame from themselves. They need to get a better grip on their PR departments or whoever was responsible for this, and have a company-wide policy to avoid practices like this because it only results in negative press.

 

[Hellshy.]

can we stop using the term "gamin journalist" unless speaking about people writing for gamasutra or gamesindustry.biz ?

do people use the term "film jouranlists" ?

do they have press cards ?

You have a good point. A lot of these people only score games and that is a reviewer in my book. Though I would call someone like colin moriarty form IGN a gaming journalist. His pieces on the history of Naughty Dog were pretty good.