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[Azure J]

Haggar I've neatly written into my "don't try to understand it, just avoid it" group of characters overall. I really and truly blame Smurf for it, nothing about that character looks like it should give anyone any real troubles, but getting piped, hugged or tapped in the shin as much as I have trying to engage in close combat even once after getting a proper confirm has led to this weird sense of unspoken and begrudging respect for the Mayor.

Also, lol @ the Fighting Game Weekly thread.

 

[SolarKnight]

Haggar I've neatly written into my "don't try to understand it, just avoid it" group of characters overall. I really and truly blame Smurf for it, nothing about that character looks like it should give anyone any real troubles, but getting piped, hugged or tapped in the shin as much as I have trying to engage in close combat even once after getting a proper confirm has led to this weird sense of unspoken and begrudging respect for the Mayor.

Seriously, how does the mayor even do it.

Also, speaking for I'm sure pretty much everyone I fight, Nova's cM and jH lol

 

[Frantic]

Haggar I've neatly written into my "don't try to understand it, just avoid it" group of characters overall. I really and truly blame Smurf for it, nothing about that character looks like it should give anyone any real troubles, but getting piped, hugged or tapped in the shin as much as I have trying to engage in close combat even once after getting a proper confirm has led to this weird sense of unspoken and begrudging respect for the Mayor.

I just hate getting hit by Haggars who literally do the same thing over and over. When someone just follows a flow chart to the letter and I get hit by it, I just ooze salt. :/

Also, lol @ the Fighting Game Weekly thread.

I had to hold myself back from getting really sarcastic, as well as refrain from writing an entire 10 page essay on why Dante is top ten. lol

 

[Azure J]

Just to put it out there since I don't think I have ever, I'm of the assumption that the endgame tier list (like whatever UMVC3's equivalent to "ten more years" will be) will have Dante as a top 5 member. My personal number is 4 under Theory Viper, Zero, and Sage Magneto. Vergil will become the new Dante in that he'll be underrated because of bullshit setups designed for him specifically to never let him play if he isn't on point, but always relevant because swords and ease of use allowing him to have a healthy user base.

 

[Beckx]

Played around a bit with Vita Hawkeye at lunch. Thanks for the suggestion guys, really like how he plays, and had never really considered him.

 

[Boss Riovane]

Think I am gonna run Spencer/West/Dorm. Either that or Kl'rt/West/Dorm.

 

[Bizazedo]

Just to put it out there since I don't think I have ever, I'm of the assumption that the endgame tier list (like whatever UMVC3's equivalent to "ten more years" will be) will have Dante as a top 5 member. My personal number is 4 under Theory Viper, Zero, and Sage Magneto. Vergil will become the new Dante in that he'll be underrated because of bullshit setups designed for him specifically to never let him play if he isn't on point, but always relevant because swords and ease of use allowing him to have a healthy user base.

Theory wise, sure. I just don't think anyone'll be able to consistently get through entire tournaments consistently unless he's carried by others like Vergil or Doom.

I.e., it won't be because of Dante. S'why I think top 10, sure, but not a realistic top 5.

 

[Professor Beef]

God's Beard vs. Professor Beef

 

[A Pretty Panda]

 

[Azure J]

Didn't get it until I clicked the link.

Awesome.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Beardo you need to block and not put yourself in dumb situations. Jump back gun is annoying as fuck, but you do it in situations where you're just asking for it.

And like adjust your combos for Joe. Wesker has like a million years during LMH to figure out to go for QCF M or L. Even baby ass LMHS MMHS is better than going for QCF L since you're getting nothing off that. Joe should have been dead a bunch of times

If Arthur has you in the corner just leave because it's fucking Arthur.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

This is a good starting point to a topic I should have brought up months ago, what is that one normal you get salty as fuck getting hit with?

Right now, it's either this, Wolverine's c.L, or Hawkeye's j.H. I've almost reached zen in this game with regards to getting hit, but these moves man... I still can't get all of the rage out.

Edit: Oh fuck, forgot about online Ryus and j.L/c.L.

Frank West slide.

 

[Professor Beef]

I beat him a few games with Ghost Rider/Hulk/Sentinel too, but those weren't recorded. He beat me more than I beat him with that team. I did get Dark Phoenix with Penance Stare, which felt really good.

 

[Dahbomb]

Some choice quotes from a spoiled Dante player:

Ryu has better DHC options than Dante.

His ground throws is Top 5 worst in the game

Air Normals are nothing special outside of cancelable S.

Jam Session is not a top 5 assist.

Bold canceling Normals means nothing. Every character in this game is safe if they use their normals and specials coorectly in conjunction with assists.

no legit Dante players think he is Top 10

Dante is Mid tier at best. He's like #15

 

[Onemic]

Where would you guys rank dnate anyway? It seems like he has slowly dropped out of favour for a lot of people. Fchamp doesnt even think he's top 10.

 

[Dahbomb]

He's top 10. FChamp only recently put him just outside the top 10 but most people have him at top 10. FChamp changes his tier list more than I change my socks.

Even if you think he's top 15, that is not by definition mid tier. A Mid tier character is ranked somewhere in the 20s in the game. Top 15 is still High tier.

 

[Azure J]

Dah stop posting that trash, I was going to engage until he made mistake #1 when discussing Dante's "flaws" and brought up his throw game.

Where would you guys rank dnate anyway? It seems like he has slowly dropped out of favour for a lot of people. Fchamp doesnt even think he's top 10.

I made my endgame talk (endgame encapuslates the following: people putting in the work and using all of the tech amased between now and then like how people used endgame Magneto in MVC2) on the character, but right now, he's chilling somewhere around 6th - 10th. Zero, Vergil, Magneto, Viper are your four gods. Right after that is Spencer, Wesker, Doom, Dante, Dormammu and Strider. (Edit: Morrigan's here actually, wtf was I thinking) I can never rank accordingly with this group because no one is clearly above everyone else, but just because Dante has excellent match ups against them all along with bringing what he does, I feel like he is the strongest candidate for moving to 5 (and thus 4 when the endgame happens) out of everyone here. His main current rival is Doom because while providing similar amounts of "everything" to a team, he's the only one up here who has some LAUGHABLY bad match ups on point. (Ex. Doom vs. Hawkeye or Doom vs. Dormammu.)

 

[JeTmAn81]

I think you can make a strong case for these characters being better than Dante:

Zero
Vergil
C. Viper
Magneto
Doctor Doom
Wolverine
Dormammu
Spencer
Morrigan

So conceivably Dante could be top ten, but he's probably more likely top fifteen. He's still really good, but if that list is considered top tier, then he's not quite in that class.

But at this point it's becoming more apparent than ever that a character's part in team synergy is much more important than their strengths individually. Hence why Doctor Doom is so popular and ultimately such a great character, despite some glaring weaknesses.

 

[enzo_gt]

God's Beard vs. Professor Beef

Lol GB's Wesker

Good set though. I could've swore you won 2-5 when you said it was 2-4 though. LOL at the ending of the last match.

 

[Dahbomb]

Dormammu being better than Dante is highly arguable.

He doesn't have the same safety on his normals/moves, his zoning isn't as safe and is heavily assist required. Dormammu has difficulty converting from sj height where as Dante just does j.S into a combo. Dormammu has no assist you can say that belong even in the top 15 where as Dante has a top 5 probably top 3 assist in the game. Dante has superior ground movement and better pressure.

People rate Dormammu higher because he goes better with Missiles than Dante and he has won EVO. Dante owns Dormammu in the match up.

Wolverine being better than Dante is also arguable. People overrate Wolverine's throw game while underrate Dante's. He too needs an assist to get a combo off his throws. He can't set up solo incoming mix ups like Dante can with Acid Raid. He has 0 zoning game so he is an all in rushdown character which means he gets smoked by characters who have normals that need to be respected (Haggar, Hulk, Zero, Taskmaster etc) where as Dante does way better against those characters. Wolverine has no top assist meaning he is exclusively an assist character, his DHC game is similar to Dante's. Dante also has a top THC hyper that is godly for mix ups. Wolverine does similar damage to Dante overall which is shocking to hear but it's the truth, Wolverine just has an easier time getting to those higher numbers.

Wolverine is much easier to counter pick than Dante. You can beat a good Wolverine player by stacking your team with armor, Lariat like assist/moves that make Wolverine back off.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Dormammu being better than Dante is highly arguable.

He doesn't have the same safety on his normals/moves, his zoning isn't as safe and is heavily assist required. Dormammu has difficulty converting from sj height where as Dante just does j.S into a combo. Dormammu has no assist you can say that belong even in the top 15 where as Dante has a top 5 probably top 3 assist in the game. Dante has superior ground movement and better pressure.

People rate Dormammu higher because he goes better with Missiles than Dante and he has won EVO. Dante owns Dormammu in the match up.

Well, we can't rate things based on individual matchups otherwise Doom would probably not be top ten. It's got to be about overall utility and effectiveness. I think Dorm's damage is one of the big things that puts him past Dante. Obviously he can be very mobile as well and has great DHC's. Dante wins in the assist category, but overall I just think Dorm is better.

 

[biosnake20]

Dante/Strider is in the top 5 shells in the game. He's also top 3 in style tier.

 

[Dahbomb]

Well, we can't rate things based on individual matchups otherwise Doom would probably not be top ten. It's got to be about overall utility and effectiveness. I think Dorm's damage is one of the big things that puts him past Dante. Obviously he can be very mobile as well and has great DHC's. Dante wins in the assist category, but overall I just think Dorm is better.

I wasn't just rating on match ups, I was talking about what they bring to the team as well and Dante brings more to the team than Dorm. It's hard to argue against Dante's utility on a team but everyone is quick to bring up his effectiveness most notably his damage.

He's also top 3 in style tier.

There are 2 characters above Dante in style tier?

 

[biosnake20]

I wasn't just rating on match ups, I was talking about what they bring to the team as well and Dante brings more to the team than Dorm. It's hard to argue against Dante's utility on a team.


There are 2 characters above Dante in style tier?

Your right he's number one. Also Viscant has to hurry up and make another team tier list/shell tier list for this game. It's been a while since the last one.

 

[Karsticles]

Some choice quotes from a spoiled Dante player:

Source that!

There are 2 characters above Dante in style tier?

I think there are three characters above Dante in style tier, because while Dante has a lot of moves, it's easy to optimize what's possible, and it becomes all the same. To me, style has the word "free" in front of it by nature. Doom, Magneto, and Morrigan all have more style than Dante.

 

[Frantic]

Some choice quotes from a spoiled Dante player:

I lost it at the 'First of all Dante has no grounded throw game so this whole frame trap thing can stop.' line.

Well, we can't rate things based on individual matchups otherwise Doom would probably not be top ten. It's got to be about overall utility and effectiveness. I think Dorm's damage is one of the big things that puts him past Dante. Obviously he can be very mobile as well and has great DHC's. Dante wins in the assist category, but overall I just think Dorm is better.

The thing about that, though, is why single tiers do not really work in this game. Yeah, Spencer, Wolverine, Dorm or whoever might be more 'effective' than Dante on one or two teams, but are they as effective as him on all teams?

Dante will always provide strong assists and DHCs for any character in front of him, and then when he comes out on point he does not need nearly as much support to be effective with as a lot of other characters.

I think there are three characters above Dante in style tier, because while Dante has a lot of moves, it's easy to optimize what's possible, and it becomes all the same. To me, style has the word "free" in front of it by nature. Doom, Magneto, and Morrigan all have more style than Dante.

Eh, you can freestyle quite a bit with Dante... it's just not really optimal. But I do agree he can be kinda samey. The real Dante swag is from XF3 where everything combos into everything.

 

[Dahbomb]

Source that!


I think there are three characters above Dante in style tier, because while Dante has a lot of moves, it's easy to optimize what's possible, and it becomes all the same. To me, style has the word "free" in front of it by nature. Doom, Magneto, and Morrigan all have more style than Dante.

It's from the FGW thread. We already had our say on the matter and offered to move the conversation here which we did.

Also Frank West LVL4 is the best character in the game when not in XF.

 

[Azure J]

I lost it at the 'First of all Dante has no grounded throw game so this whole frame trap thing can stop.' line.

We really are the only two people who believe in better Sparda son, aren't we? :lol

A Nintendo fan and a Dante main... I wonder if I do this to myself on purpose... :lol :lol :lol

The thing about that, though, is why single tiers do not really work in this game. Yeah, Spencer, Wolverine, Dorm or whoever might be more 'effective' than Dante on one or two teams, but are they as effective as him on all teams?

Dante will always provide strong assists and DHCs for any character in front of him, and then when he comes out on point he does not need nearly as much support to be effective with as a lot of other characters.

This is also true. I've always kinda tried to include general team supports and effectivenesses when on a team in my few attempts at tier listing. As such, when people want to get snippy about Dante, my only question is how can you when he does all that and fights the large majority of the cast favorably solo? The only other person fucking with him in support tier is Doom.

Eh, you can freestyle quite a bit with Dante... it's just not really optimal. But I do agree he can be kinda samey. The real Dante swag is from XF3 where everything combos into everything.

I think that's the biggest reason why lately I've really begun to love having Dante in second position with Strider assist. All of the derp of XF3 with his BFF? Hell yes.

One day though, I'm going to completely unoptimize myself and play like PR Rog for a bit, see if I can just whatever into whatever my way after going HAM for a hit.

 

[Professor Beef]

Lol GB's Wesker

Good set though. I could've swore you won 2-5 when you said it was 2-4 though. LOL at the ending of the last match.

I wasn't prepared for Level 3 speed Joe, but I'm glad it worked out lol.

 

[Onemic]

I also noticed that Phoenix has dropped considerably in most peoples tier lists(except Fchamp's) why is that? I was actually thinking of learning how to play phoenix. Is she high execution? And can she do stuff when not Dark Phoenix?(damage/mixup wise)

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

That's ok, I don't see any reason not to.
It's WAYYYY too good.

What can your team do against it anyways Slasher?
It seems like Gamma Crush or Order In The Count should have enough invincibility to get you through the swords, but you don't really have a safe DHC to DHC into or a hyper to punish from fullscreen...

I find it frustrating because it seems like Felicia can't do anything when spiral swords are up.

It's the fact that nobody can really do anything against it. It just has everything going for it.

Safe DHC. Check
Combo Extender. Check
Force Block String. Check
Stupid Rapid Slash conjunction. Check
Extra Formations. Check
Easy teleport shenanagins. Check
Eats many projectiles. Check
Destroys the neutral game. Check

All in one move.

This is a good starting point to a topic I should have brought up months ago, what is that one normal you get salty as fuck getting hit with?

Doom Footdive. I can't get mad at it but fuck I'm not just gonna let him sit in the air all day and spam shit, I gotta make my move sometime. Clearly if I use this high priority attack from this angle I can....

*Gets footdived

God's Beard vs. Professor Beef

Good matches. I liked the Joe victory in the last match against DP. I guess being slowed continues after transformation.

Also poor God's Beard, Joe kept falling out of stuff and it looked hard to convert things causes he's so small.

Beardo you need to block and not put yourself in dumb situations. Jump back gun is annoying as fuck, but you do it in situations where you're just asking for it.

Holy shit this. It's such a God's Beard staple. I was literally playing a match the other day and someone was replicating this and I said over the mic "When did God's Beard start playing" and my opponent was like Whaa. Nevermind lol.

It's okay God's Beard my Wesker is just as fradulent.

 

[Azure J]

Phoenix dropped in position because of a combination of her nerfs and Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 basically being a counterpick to her entire design.

Being less joke-y about it, there are a lot more characters that out-Phoenix her for less of an investment, there are mutiple mechanics on top of established tech that has been designed to keep Dark Phoenix at bay and Phoenix herself is designed for people who are good at winning and staying in control via defense, something that isn't everyone's calling.

 

[Dahbomb]

I want Nova/Frank/Dante to enter the meta game. I hope Bee picks it up to show the world how ridiculous the team is. Any hit or throw of Nova into a LVL4 Frank. Good luck trying to block Jam Session mix ups and unlockables with Nova.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

Phoenix dropped in position because of a combination of her nerfs and Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 basically being a counterpick to her entire design.

Being less joke-y about it, there are a lot more characters that out-Phoenix her for less of an investment, there are mutiple mechanics on top of established tech that has been designed to keep Dark Phoenix at bay and Phoenix herself is designed for people who are good at winning and staying in control via defense, something that isn't everyone's calling.

Phoenix never dropped IMO

she's still off the tier list. Both strongest and weakest at the same time.

how i put her

 

[Azure J]

I was already half tempted to try Nova/Dante/Strider after Marvelo's stuff at Winter Brawl. But then I remembered Nova and said nope. :lol

Phoenix never dropped IMO

she's still off the tier list. Both strongest and weakest at the same time.

how i put her

Whoops, I said position when I should have said popularity.

I like the idea here though.

Edit: The other Phoenix needs to be in a similar situation but under Jean since her options are stronger.

 

[Onemic]

Phoenix dropped in position because of a combination of her nerfs and Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 basically being a counterpick to her entire design.

Being less joke-y about it, there are a lot more characters that out-Phoenix her for less of an investment, there are mutiple mechanics on top of established tech that has been designed to keep Dark Phoenix at bay and Phoenix herself is designed for people who are good at winning and staying in control via defense, something that isn't everyone's calling.

Who out-phoenix's her for less of an investment besides Vergil and Strider?

So only touch phoenix if my defense is off the chain?

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I still think Skrull/Frank/Whoever is best for Frank.

 

[Azure J]

Who out-phoenix's her for less of an investment besides Vergil and Strider?

So only touch phoenix if my defense is off the chain?

Actually, it's just those two that straight outdo her, but then you have botique counters in properly leveled up Frank West and Dr. Strange.

The latter is what I'd say, but if you like her, play her. People who like their characters take them farther.

 

[Dahbomb]

Can Jill Somersault through Phoenix's transformation blast?

 

[JeTmAn81]

I'd agree with the sentiment that should only pick Phoenix if you have incredible defense. You also need to be 100% on point with your first two characters. So in other words, God's Beard, you need to drop Phoenix.

 

[Professor Beef]

So in other words, God's Beard, you need to drop Phoenix.

rofl

 

[Frantic]

We really are the only two people who believe in better Sparda son, aren't we? :lol

It sure seems like it.

Can Jill Somersault through Phoenix's transformation blast?

Jill can Somersault through just about anything. 14 frames of invulnerability, iirc.

 

[Azure J]

I'd agree with the sentiment that should only pick Phoenix if you have incredible defense. You also need to 100% on point with your first two characters. So in other words, God's Beard, you need to drop Phoenix.

Cooooooooold Bloooooooooded!

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

I still think Skrull/Frank/Whoever is best for Frank.

Frank's Best Friends/Booty Calls

Dante
Vergil
Skrull
Tron Bonne
Nova
Wolverine
Ammy

 

[JeTmAn81]

GB does great with the Wesker/Magneto combination, he should just sub out Phoenix for Doom missiles and call it a day.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Beardo you not to stop overthinking things and just be dumb.

There's a part where you get a hit, can't continue in a combo, then just stand there. Just mash out ABC like Beef does.

 

[QisTopTier]

Phoenix never dropped IMO

she's still off the tier list. Both strongest and weakest at the same time.

how i put her

LOL wtf at felicia

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

LOL wtf at felicia

tell me something i dont know, or Nobody plays her lol

 

[QisTopTier]

tell me something i dont know, or Nobody plays her lol

She's top 20 for 1.

 

[Zissou]

I want Nova/Frank/Dante to enter the meta game. I hope Bee picks it up to show the world how ridiculous the team is. Any hit or throw of Nova into a LVL4 Frank. Good luck trying to block Jam Session mix ups and unlockables with Nova.

I though you'd be guaranteed lvl5 Frank since you could take a second picture using Nova's ground bounce assist. Am I misinformed?