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[RoboPlato]

It is the opinion of multiple professionals that WideIO memory is coming to the PS4 with stacked memory on transposer connected to CPU/GPU and possibly (my opinion) a second GPU on the same transposer.

This is my dream configuration for the PS4. I don't think it'll happen but it would be sweet. The multiGPU setup on an APU may be why a lot of engineers are more excited for the Durango GPU. It'll likely be a bit more engineered for various, special tasks whereas Sony may just be brute forcing it through higher end off the shelf parts. AMD may also not be too excited about it if Sony is the ones that came up with the multiGPU setup, like in the patent from the other day. Sony is a hardware company so they could be doing a lot more of their own work than Microsoft is.

http://www.examiner.com/article/ps4...e-tech-help-sought-by-battlefield-3-developer

I want a full 64 player BF4 for next gen launch so badly.

 

[pharmboy044]

http://www.examiner.com/article/ps4...e-tech-help-sought-by-battlefield-3-developer

I really hope that's not the actual PS4 controller.

 

[DieH@rd]

I really hope that's not the actual PS4 controller.

They are all concept designs. Dualshock will not change much, I'm sure.

 

[RoboPlato]

They are all concept designs. Dualshock will not change much, I'm sure.

I have a feeling it'll be adjusted a bit. Proper triggers and different shoulder button placements, at least.

I want triggers that are a combination of the Nav controller's and the Move T button. Have those in a proper position with the other R and L buttons under it, where you middle finger hits.

 

[Karak]

http://www.examiner.com/article/ps4...e-tech-help-sought-by-battlefield-3-developer

One of the misconceptions now outed about the 360 delivery for games and supposed anti piracy connection.

As for controllers. There will be some changes to at least 1 of them.

 

[quest]

This is my dream configuration for the PS4. I don't think it'll happen but it would be sweet. The multiGPU setup on an APU may be why a lot of engineers are more excited for the Durango GPU. It'll likely be a bit more engineered for various, special tasks whereas Sony may just be brute forcing it through higher end off the shelf parts.


I want a full 64 player BF4 for next gen launch so badly.

The only way I can see 2 GPUs is if the CPU is weaker and the second small GPU on board with the CPU(APU) will be there to do the heavy FP lifting. It would make sense if the CPU is based on the jaguar.

 

[RoboPlato]

The only way I can see 2 GPUs is if the CPU is weaker and the second small GPU on board with the CPU(APU) will be there to do the heavy FP lifting. It would make sense if the CPU is based on the jaguar.

That's what I meant. A low power (roughly 1Tflop) on the APU and a second discrete one with more power for games that demand it.

 

[quest]

I would say best case would be a .5 TF not sure how many CUs that would be. Maybe 8 CUs clocked around 500mhz. Honestly that should be more than enough to assist the CPU. Then a discreet GPU around 1.5 TF. Maybe something like 7850 down clocked for reduce power and heat. I still think neither sony or MS are willing to take much of a loss this time around. Then what ever gimmick that comes in the box will eat at the APU/GPU budget. Also what ever they use to get enough bandwidth will be pricy.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

If there's one thing i hope sony keeps the same for PS4, it would be the background images on games disc from the XMB. I like they way it looks.

 

[Mindlog]

They are all concept designs. Dualshock will not change much, I'm sure.

Which is the biggest shame of all. Both controllers could use at least a modest upgrade to place two more buttons on the shoulder. I could list at least a dozen games that would have benefited from just two more buttons.

I hate how much inertia exists behind the current controllers. There's so much room for improvement, but any changes face stiff focus grouped opposition.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Which is the biggest shame of all. Both controllers could use at least a modest upgrade to place two more buttons on the shoulder. I could list at least a dozen games that would have benefited from just two more buttons.

I hate how much inertia exists behind the current controllers. There's so much room for improvement, but any changes face stiff focus grouped opposition.

I think it is safe, and it would make so much sense, to expect at least the addition of a 3 axis gyroscope and a magnetic compass/geomagnetic sensor to give the Dual Shock 4 controller the same motion control capabilities as PS Move, PS Vita, etc... This would allow to have motion controls assisted aiming like Uncharted: Golden Abyss provides... amazing controls setup...

 

[Karak]

Which is the biggest shame of all. Both controllers could use at least a modest upgrade to place two more buttons on the shoulder. I could list at least a dozen games that would have benefited from just two more buttons.

I hate how much inertia exists behind the current controllers. There's so much room for improvement, but any changes face stiff focus grouped opposition.

Agreed completely. I have an older PC controller where there is a buttons for the ring finger and pinky and its god damned wonderous. I know consoles probably wouldn't need that but at least 1-2 extra buttons would be great. I would love a return to 6 face buttons as well. A,b,c x,y,z.

 

[Perkel]

Which is the biggest shame of all. Both controllers could use at least a modest upgrade to place two more buttons on the shoulder. I could list at least a dozen games that would have benefited from just two more buttons.

I hate how much inertia exists behind the current controllers. There's so much room for improvement, but any changes face stiff focus grouped opposition.

More buttons don't solve anything. It's game designer job to fit controls on pad.

I play X3 Terran Conflict on ps3 pad. If that can work anything can be also on pad.

 

[Majanew]

LOL

Kinect can't be built-in like that, people won't be placing the system in the best position to use hand gestures. And that controller - MS wouldn't change the location of the left stick with the dpad.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I think we're going to see a dramatically new controller for the ps4. They don't want to get burned again for a lack of innovation.

A split dual shock move controller is what I expect

 

[Mindlog]

More buttons don't solve anything. It's game designer job to fit controls on pad.

I play X3 Terran Conflict on ps3 pad. If that can work anything can be also on pad.

I vehemently disagree.

Using Mass Effect 3 multiplayer as an example: The game designer made it work by reducing the number of powers per character to three. This change is acceptable within the context of multiplayer. However, it was primarily made because there is no reasonable way to select more powers in a fast-paced multiplayer setting. Even the single player side would have benefited from having more powers hotkeyed instead of bringing up the radial menus.

Many game have been made to work on a pad, but some of the limitations placed by current gamepad design are unnecessary. There's plenty of room for improvement without upsetting ease of use. Heck, there's plenty of room for improvement without even adding more buttons! They're terribly positioned in their current configuration.

 

[pottuvoi]

You can never have enough bandwidth. =p

Low latency wouldn't be bad either..

 

[Jack_AG]

Which is the biggest shame of all. Both controllers could use at least a modest upgrade to place two more buttons on the shoulder. I could list at least a dozen games that would have benefited from just two more buttons.

I hate how much inertia exists behind the current controllers. There's so much room for improvement, but any changes face stiff focus grouped opposition.

No more buttons. Developers can't even figure out how to properly use what we have now - adding more buttons would stupefy them even further.

The first step is FULL customization for every game including multi-contextual actions. I should be able to move just 1 action to another button and not the whole set. Ex: O is fine to exit vehicles in Borderlands 2 - but I prefer crouch to R3 which also O - I can swap but I would be bringing ALL functions of O with me to R3 and not just crouch.

Developers need to allow players to fully customize controls. Same goes for HUD - every game needs the ability to adjust "safe" areas of the screen since most if not all new TVs have an option to turn off overscan. I don't like a HUD sitting 85 feet inside the edge of my 42" TV.

Fuck i'm ranting now ha!

 

[dragonelite]

LOL

Kinect can't be built-in like that, people won't be placing the system in the best position to use hand gestures. And that controller - MS wouldn't change the location of the left stick with the dpad.

Haha i can't even imaging how some of these guys can even think of kinect 2.0 being build in.
wtf is ps controller stick layout doing on the 720 controller.

 

[Jack_AG]

LOL

Kinect can't be built-in like that, people won't be placing the system in the best position to use hand gestures. And that controller - MS wouldn't change the location of the left stick with the dpad.

The only reason for offset analogs was because at the Xbox launch - most games were played using a left analog/right face button setup - it made sense to allow your hands to be resting symmetrically. Now most games run dual analog.

It is so awkward to hold one thumb up and one down after playing symmetrically since the NES with almost every sytem. At least for me. Maybe for kids who grew up with an xbox - that's all they know.

I don't find any advantage since you must actively keep your thumb in an upright position vs resting it without effort symmetrically.

Meh, just my opinion so dont get offended. I started with an Atari 2800 so im stuck in my ways. Symmetry for me.

 

[Ashes]

Some people are convinced off set analogue controllers is inherently better design.

Perhaps comfort goes a long way to pleasing a person. People tend to put up with a lot of crap if only they hold a comfortable controller. From the cheap buttons, to the god awful d-pad, to even having to have recycled batteries on the standby.

I personally think the best things about the x360 controller are the designs wins in terms of the size, ergonomic fit, and trigger/bumper placement.


edit: then again, perhaps, my favouring symmetry, is because human beings find symmetry easier to understand and nearly always is aesthetically pleasing.

 

[Karak]

The only reason for offset analogs was because at the Xbox launch - most games were played using a left analog/right face button setup - it made sense to allow your hands to be resting symmetrically. Now most games run dual analog.

It is so awkward to hold one thumb up and one down after playing symmetrically since the NES with almost every sytem. At least for me. Maybe for kids who grew up with an xbox - that's all they know.

I don't find any advantage since you must actively keep your thumb in an upright position vs resting it without effort symmetrically.

Meh, just my opinion so dont get offended. I started with an Atari 2800 so im stuck in my ways. Symmetry for me.

I love the 360 controller. But what you said is still true

 

[Perkel]

I vehemently disagree.

Using Mass Effect 3 multiplayer as an example: The game designer made it work by reducing the number of powers per character to three. This change is acceptable within the context of multiplayer. However, it was primarily made because there is no reasonable way to select more powers in a fast-paced multiplayer setting. Even the single player side would have benefited from having more powers hotkeyed instead of bringing up the radial menus.

Many game have been made to work on a pad, but some of the limitations placed by current gamepad design are unnecessary. There's plenty of room for improvement without upsetting ease of use. Heck, there's plenty of room for improvement without even adding more buttons! They're terribly positioned in their current configuration.

Dude X3 has tons of features which need a lot of buttons and i binded like 60 different functions and none of those binds are complicated or hard to learn. For example holding buttons is rarely used and holding button and pressing other is almost never used in gaming.

It's designer fail not controller. You can make even DPAD skill works on release not press thanks to that you have not 4 but 8 different DPAD positions which works well. Or make 4 common press and 4 other like left-up which work on release. Or make double press. I could go on.

Current controllers already have tons of buttons. L1/2/3 R1/2/3 ABCD 8 directional DPAD, 2 analogs start select. That's 12 buttons with just simple single press without combining or holding and without DPAD used as buttons which can give additional 4 easy to press buttons and 4 on release buttons.

 

[RoboPlato]

Perkel, I have to ask why in the hell did you play X3 with a controller? Just to see if it was possible?

 

[Majanew]

The only reason for offset analogs was because at the Xbox launch - most games were played using a left analog/right face button setup - it made sense to allow your hands to be resting symmetrically. Now most games run dual analog.

It is so awkward to hold one thumb up and one down after playing symmetrically since the NES with almost every sytem. At least for me. Maybe for kids who grew up with an xbox - that's all they know.

I don't find any advantage since you must actively keep your thumb in an upright position vs resting it without effort symmetrically.

Meh, just my opinion so dont get offended. I started with an Atari 2800 so im stuck in my ways. Symmetry for me.

Well, I grew up on Atari 2600 and NES, and I still feel the staggered sticks is the better way. Going back playing shooters on PS3 just doesn't feel as good with my thumbs bumping into each other while strafing and turning. But the PS3's sticks being so loose and the triggers are the bigger issues, IMO. I just think MS has near perfection with the 360 controller and they'd be foolish to mess with what works.

 

[Perkel]

Perkel, I have to ask why in the hell did you play X3 with a controller? Just to see if it was possible?

You won't believe but it is actually faster and better than standard mouse + keyboard. I too didn't believe it and i just wanted to map it only for dogfighting purpose but i simply can't play now X3 without gamepad. With proper clever binding it just works.

edit:

X3 menu is list type not icon type which is a big factor.

 

[RoboPlato]

Well, I grew up on Atari 2600 and NES, and I still feel the staggered sticks is the better way. Going back playing shooters on PS3 just doesn't feel as good with my thumbs bumping into each other while strafing and turning. But the PS3's sticks being so loose and the triggers are the bigger issues, IMO. I just think MS has near perfection with the 360 controller and they'd be foolish to mess with what works.

I can't see Microsoft making any changes to the 360 pad at this point, outside of the d-pad and cosmetics. Developers have embraced it as a standard and even Nintendo copied the layout for the Wii U Pro controller. That's one of the best endorsements they could ever get. Personally I'm not a huge fan of the shoulder button placement or the staggered sticks but outside of that it really is a great controller design.

You won't believe but it is actually faster and better than standard mouse + keyboard. I too didn't believe it and i just wanted to map it only for dogfighting purpose but i simply can't play now X3 without gamepad. With proper clever binding it just works.

edit:

X3 menu is list type not icon type which is a big factor.

That's actually really cool.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

i really hope they don't change the dualshock much, it's the best controller for me. bring back l2 and r2 like the ds2 though.

 

[Mindlog]

No more buttons. Developers can't even figure out how to properly use what we have now - adding more buttons would stupefy them even further.

I also want more customization. I don't see why more buttons would be a bigger obstacle to that

On PC I use AHK to customize my controls when necessary.

Dude X3 has tons of features which need a lot of buttons and i binded like 60 different functions and none of those binds are complicated or hard to learn. For example holding buttons is rarely used and holding button and pressing other is almost never used in gaming.

It's designer fail not controller. You can make even DPAD skill works on release not press thanks to that you have not 4 but 8 different DPAD positions which works well. Or make 4 common press and 4 other like left-up which work on release. Or make double press. I could go on.

Current controllers already have tons of buttons. L1/2/3 R1/2/3 ABCD 8 directional DPAD, 2 analogs start select. That's 12 buttons with just simple single press without combining or holding and without DPAD used as buttons which can give additional 4 easy to press buttons and 4 on release buttons.

That's very neat. X3 is one of my favorite games. Mapping everything you need to a controller is quite impressive. In Company of Heroes I created an AHK script that placed every possible action one or two layers deep without moving my left hand.

Why are the current number of buttons on a controller optimal? If the designer should be able to work within certain constraints then why don't we reduce the number of buttons?

We'll agree to disagree, but something as simple as halved shoulder buttons is preferable to me in a fast-paced multiplayer game compared to relying on a modifier (whether it be hold, tap, double tap or wild card pass-through.)

My point of view is that current button placement is not optimal. Grab a controller and take note of where the fingers lay versus where the buttons are. Grab any modern gaming mouse and do the same. One is inexplicably stuck in design and one has undergone continuous optimization.

 

[Perkel]

That's actually really cool.

just made video. It's mainly menus but all rest like missiles fire/change. Shields front,back, laser targeting seta, galaxy/sector map, choice menu, jumpdrive, target select from enemy to neutral are all bind and used without problem even things like dock or scan ship works.

 

[Tripolygon]

Someone posted this a while back but i cant remember who's twitter account it's from.

A PS4 controller like this wouldn't be bad at all, as long as you can have access to the entire OS from the small screen while playing a game. Add a PS Vita-like DPad, pressure sensitive buttons and make every button customization ala PC games. NO Dual Screen gaming on the screen please, just use it as a supplementary means to navigate the OS (software keyboard) and use it to display maps and game menu or a few soft keys only.

 

[DieH@rd]

Someone posted this a while back but i cant remember who's twitter account it's from.

https://twitter.com/DJmizuhara/status/238406693002809345

 

[Perkel]

If it is fucking WiiU pad clone i will be mad. No gimicks please.

 

[BuggyDClown]

I dont see why Move isnt the standard, if they built it to be a pagkacged dual handed device not sold them seperatly then it could be successful. Fuck it would just be more comfertable. Upgrade, revise the move and make it standard. You won't lose any core functionality and you can gain additional gameplay styles.

 

[BlackJace]

If it is fucking WiiU pad clone i will be mad. No gimicks please.

You would think at this point in time, people would accept that touchscreens are no longer "gimmicks".

 

[NBtoaster]

If it is fucking WiiU pad clone i will be mad. No gimicks please.

That looks more like the Dreamcast controller.

 

[Tripolygon]

That looks more like the Dreamcast controller.

Yup, this is what i was going for.

 

[Raoh]

I just threw up a little, in my mouth. I might throw up more if I see more 360 like configurations for playstation controllers.


In the past my favorite controller was this one.

Perfect grip size, almost perfect L2/R2 buttons, face buttons were better on the DS2 though. dpad was ok.

I wouldn't be mad if xbox and playstation added a screen to the controller like the Wii U Gamepad. It does not feel like a gimmick at all, it works very well but its either the two sticks up top or on the bottom, I couldn't see it working with the current 360 setup.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

If it is fucking WiiU pad clone i will be mad. No gimicks please.

Same, I really hope it's not. The Wii U pad's best feature is that it can stream games onto the screen. I've yet to see anything even close to game-changing in terms of it actually improving gameplay. It's gimmicky, ancillary stuff, nothing significant.

 

[Raoh]

Same, I really hope it's not. The Wii U pad's best feature is that it can stream games onto the screen. I've yet to see anything even close to game-changing in terms of it actually improving gameplay. It's gimmicky, ancillary stuff, nothing significant.

ZombiU.

And I would love to see it used for games like Dead Space, just like in ZombiU this would also be perfect for accessing your bag in The Last of Us.

Having a constant off tv screen map and radar on your controller is quite nice.

I honestly hope this catches on and becomes a standard.

 

[Ahasverus]

No screens please,it's just a gimmick to add cost to an already expensive console.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

ZombiU.

And I would love to see it used for games like Dead Space, just like in ZombiU this would also be perfect for accessing your bag in The Last of Us.

Having a constant off tv screen map and radar on your controller is quite nice.

I honestly hope this catches on and becomes a standard.

I rather they spend that money on the system's internals instead of a gimmicky touch screen controller that will add nothing of significance to gameplay.

No screens please,it's just a gimmick to add cost to an already expensive console.

This

 

[Tripolygon]

No screens please,it's just a gimmick to add cost to an already expensive console.

It is not a gimmick, it is the next thing game controllers need that makes navigating the OS a lot better plus this;

ZombiU.

And I would love to see it used for games like Dead Space, just like in ZombiU this would also be perfect for accessing your bag in The Last of Us.

Having a constant off tv screen map and radar on your controller is quite nice.

I honestly hope this catches on and becomes a standard.

I'm not asking Sony or Microsoft to use it the same way WiiU is where you move the controller to see virtual worlds in your living room or sliding Ninja stars from the controller to the TV nor do i want to use Wii mote to hit golf balls from the Pad to the TV. Just simply using it to navigate or have access to the console OS while still playing a game would be awesome.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

It is not a gimmick, it is the next thing game controllers need that makes navigating the OS a lot better plus this

He cites having a map and radar on your controller

You have to look down away from the TV screen to see them. It's easier to just have a radar on the TV and/or a map you can bring up with a single button press. Having them on the touch screen doesn't make it better.

Edit- I know Ubi did this to add 'tension' to this specific game, but I'm talking about in general.

 

[systemfehler]

No screens please,it's just a gimmick to add cost to an already expensive console.

It is like texting and driving - a stupid distraction. If I pause the game to look at a map, inventory, etc. please let it be on the big screen. Nintendo went that way and I am not convinced that it adds immersion or any other serious benefit for gaming.

 

[runnin_blue]

If it is fucking WiiU pad clone i will be mad. No gimicks please.

I guess you don't use a smart phone then.

Get used to it because I'll bet my house that at least one of Sony or Microsoft jam a screen in their next controller. They won't want to miss the boat again.

 

[Perkel]

ZombiU.

And I would love to see it used for games like Dead Space, just like in ZombiU this would also be perfect for accessing your bag in The Last of Us.

Having a constant off tv screen map and radar on your controller is quite nice.

I honestly hope this catches on and becomes a standard.

Why does accessing inventory need other display ? Answer: Because we must do something with other screen. Ergo gimick.

Using second screen for inventory, map, pokeballs, mini-fucking-games which we know with this will be in every game is just waste of resources.

They should do something other than that. Like upgrade rumbe becase it is the same thing from PS1 era with big and small rotor. Make FF point based so when you pull right trigger it would emulate kickback of gun in right hand.

I guess you don't use a smart phone then.

If i want a phone i will use one. I don't need brick in my hands to do simple things like looking in my inventory or map which is 99% of what DS games do with second screen and mini-fucking-games.

Cool feature about WiiU Pad is switching from TV to pad output not making me do things which don't really have anything with enchancing gameplay.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Someone posted this a while back but i cant remember who's twitter account it's from.

https://twitter.com/DJmizuhara/status/238406693002809345

 

[Plinko]

You would think at this point in time, people would accept that touchscreens are no longer "gimmicks".

Agreed. I absolutely love the touchscreen on the Wii U controller. Off-TV play is fantastic.

If Sony/Microsoft uses it as well, it could push the console into "instant buy" territory for me.

 

[Globox_82]

https://twitter.com/DJmizuhara/status/238406693002809345

who the hell is he? Legit source?

Agreed. I absolutely love the touchscreen on the Wii U controller. Off-TV play is fantastic.

If Sony/Microsoft uses it as well, it could push the console into "instant buy" territory for me.

Nah, spend that money on specs(RAM?) not on gimmicks