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What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources
- Thread starter Hero of Legend
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whatever gets more clicks, baby
No doubt it will be, ha!
Yes that will be a big selling point a year or two into the systems lifespan, but IMHO they need something else out of the gate when the library will suck compared to PS4, Xbox one anyway.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
It's pretty neat how well the NX has been kept under wraps. Leading up to the xb1 and ps4 announcements, the leaks were amazing. Like, where is vgleaks with all the leaks lol.
DrROBschiz
Member
I dunno
I still see NX replacing WiiU/3DS gping forward with the old consoles being supported and slowly dialed out
I just dont see them doing a third pillar strategy again
Seems more likely a consolidation going forward
I still see NX replacing WiiU/3DS gping forward with the old consoles being supported and slowly dialed out
I just dont see them doing a third pillar strategy again
Seems more likely a consolidation going forward
About the IGN thing, its so par and parsel for the way the NX has been handled in general from the start, with every rumor being clung to and exploded well out of proportion (though this one, actually, seems to have largely blown under the radar for general discussion unlike some previous ones), that at this point I don't think any of the clientèle cares about the "latest" rumor unless it fits their mindfiction agenda.
To your general audience, the NX remains a thing that no one knows anything about, "industry leading" "not trying to compete" "900/60lol" "NX on PS4" etc etc. This isn't like with X1 where a narrative was set from the get-go (from Xbox themselves), heck I'd argue its actually potentially the opposite depending on how Nintendo seizes the moment as they clearly have people's attention. So while it is annoying to see such slapdash reporting, it doesn't seem to be having much of an affect other than throw away bullet points in the long list of "we know nothing".
To your general audience, the NX remains a thing that no one knows anything about, "industry leading" "not trying to compete" "900/60lol" "NX on PS4" etc etc. This isn't like with X1 where a narrative was set from the get-go (from Xbox themselves), heck I'd argue its actually potentially the opposite depending on how Nintendo seizes the moment as they clearly have people's attention. So while it is annoying to see such slapdash reporting, it doesn't seem to be having much of an affect other than throw away bullet points in the long list of "we know nothing".
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
This article acting like it's something new
"Nintendo: NX console isn't successor to Wii U, it's 'an entirely new idea"
http://flip.it/8h0TX
Still though, I don't like the sound of it. If it's not a successor, what is it then?
"Nintendo: NX console isn't successor to Wii U, it's 'an entirely new idea"
http://flip.it/8h0TX
Still though, I don't like the sound of it. If it's not a successor, what is it then?
This statement simply means it won't be "another Wii". It'll be a new family of systems with their own catch. Of course it replaces the Wii U and the 3DS.
Well, no one knows what they mean by "an entirely new idea", but my idea of "not a successor" is that it's separate from the brand, in the same way Wii was a clear shift from the Gamecube-brand, and DS being a clear shift from the Game Boy-brand.
Perhaps that's not what they mean, but that's one perspective.
EDIT: Yeah, what Peru said, basically. Didn't see that.
Cheaper as opposed to if they were to do 1GB of eSRAM or eDRAM? I'd hope so. HBM2 seems promising, or at least it has a lot of buzz right now. I know next to nothing about this all but it's all too intriguing, so thanks for answering my petty questions.
I'm talking something like 32MB of SRAM, as used on XBO. The issue with embedded RAM is that, to my knowledge, nobody's offering eDRAM on 28nm (Renesas said they were planning it 6 years ago, but there doesn't seem to be any publicly available info since then, so it was probably dropped when they decided to outsource 28nm to TSMC, who don't list eDRAM availability on their 28nm process). The alternative is SRAM, which is what Microsoft went with for the Xbox One, but SRAM is far less dense than eDRAM, which makes it substantially more expensive.
As an illustration, consider the following scale image of the Xbox One's APU (left) and the Wii U's GPU (right):
The Wii U's single large eDRAM pool has the same capacity (32MB) as the Xbox One's two SRAM pools, but you'll notice that the SRAM pools take up substantially more die space, even though the chip is manufactured on a smaller node (28nm versus 40nm).
At the time MS were putting the XBO together, SRAM was pretty much the only choice for the framebuffer in a split memory environment. Now, though, HBM2 would be a viable alternative, and although expensive, shouldn't be that expensive for just a single 1GB stack. They'd likely need HBM2, though, as HBM1 maxes out at 128GB/s per stack, so they'd really need two stacks (hence 2GB) to reach the kind of bandwidth they'd be looking for. On the other hand, HBM2 won't be hitting retail products until this summer, so may not be quite mature enough for Nintendo to go with it.
Edit: Actually, I was misremembering my PS4 and XBO bandwidths. A single 1GB stack of HBM1 at 128GB/s should do the job for a competitive console, when combined with 8GB of DDR3/4.
If the handheld were this year and the home console next, then yes, but if they release both at the same time, they can present a broadly competitive home console and also a handheld that can play pared-down versions of the same games.
Well, the S6 and 6S use chips made on Samsung's 14LPE, whereas AMD (and most chipmakers) seem to be targeting 14LPP, which is ramping up mass production at the moment (the Snapdragon 820 being the first chip made in large quantities on it, which should be in phones in a few months). Hard to say what yields will be like for a console launching late this year, but indications are that AMD will pretty much completely move over to 14nm and 16nm for their GPUs this year. They've talked about two Polaris GPUs, the smaller of which would provide "console class gaming in a thin and light laptop", which we could assume will be used in the entry-level 470/470X desktop cards. The next one we could assume would be used for 480/480X and more powerful laptop GPUs. The reports seem to indicate that there's also a "Vega" GPU being fabbed on TSMC's 16nm, which would likely be the high-end 490/490X.
I would deduce from that that 14LPP is going to offer better perf/W, but TSMC's 16nm will give them better large-die yields for the big desktop GPUs.
From a purely theoretical perspective, AMD is going to be putting out Polaris on 14LPP this summer, and there are going to be plenty of sub 100mm² 14LPP mobile chips doing the rounds late this year, so obviously the option is there for Nintendo to use a small Polaris-based 14nm APU for a November launch. The question is whether Nintendo would be willing put down the money on it. While it's unlikely, I wouldn't completely and totally rule it out. If Nintendo go with a single, non-3D screen (to ease cross-development), then there's not much else in the handheld that wouldn't be found in a $100 off-contract phone like the Moto E. It's not impossible that they could squeeze a small-die 14nm chip in there and still break even at $200.
Has there been any actual rumor of Zelda coming to NX though?
Most people are expecting it anyway, so I don't think I've seen it in any rumor
DrROBschiz
Member
I think they may be trying to distance the new system from the Wii Brand
It absolutely will be the new standard bearer going foward leaving WiiU/3DS behind
And I cant fucking wait
While I do think Zelda will be released this year (no reason to expect it not to), I think putting too much weight on the anniversary is silly. It's a minor marketing ploy and maybe a bit of developer nostalgia. It might help sell some special merchandise and a special collection release etc, but a big new AAA release in a popular franchise isn't going to sell significantly more or less because it's an even number of years since the first game.
BodiesWithoutOrgans
Member
I think paper Mario wii u will be crossgen also
DrROBschiz
Member
Zelda will be an NX AND WiiU title
In fact... I predict a large amount of WiiU software (thats still being actively supported) will end up being up-ported or have BC to the NX
It would be crazy to strand those great persistent titles (Smash, Mariokart, Splatoon, etc..) on the WiiU going forward... plus it gives them a strong library and fresh start on the new platform
Especially to those who may have avoided the WiiU.....
These are just predictions however and Nintendo is a mega pro at doing crazy shit
In fact... I predict a large amount of WiiU software (thats still being actively supported) will end up being up-ported or have BC to the NX
It would be crazy to strand those great persistent titles (Smash, Mariokart, Splatoon, etc..) on the WiiU going forward... plus it gives them a strong library and fresh start on the new platform
Especially to those who may have avoided the WiiU.....
These are just predictions however and Nintendo is a mega pro at doing crazy shit
Fourth Storm
Member
Great comparison photo of those two GPUs, Thraktor. Really puts the difference in embedded RAM technologies in perspective.
Nintendo has already cut off DLC support for Mario Kart 8 & Splatoon and will do the same for Smash 4 soon. So while we could get a Complete Edition of Smash 4 on the NX Platform, Nintendo may just opt for sequels for Mario Kart & Splatoon rather than re-releases.
DrROBschiz
Member
That would make me happy. I'm not interested in getting a WiiU at this point, but will consider their next console.
But the thing is that Mario Kart 8 ended early last year, so it'd make more financial sense to just move forward with Mario Kart 9 than waste time on a remake for 8. And Splatoon, the game was apparently made fast enough for Nintendo to just move forward with a sequel for a 2017 release.
DrROBschiz
Member
Ok but the craftsmanship and time that went into thise games to be played by so few.
I cant imagine not having some form of playing these games on NX.
Kiddy Dong
Member
It's all speculation; I'm in the minority that believes it won't get ported to NX. It probably got delayed because of the sheer scope of the game, not so they could do an NX port.
I don't disagree with that, however I think one thing led to another, meaning the delay may have happened because of the scope, but since the new release date is so near to the NX release a port is being made to have another hardware seller for the NX, and to get more money back since I don't think developing this game was cheap
More than just the unified library, it's that it will potentially be a unified forward-compatible library. When you consider Sony and Microsoft's track record on this subject, it would be a game changer.
The whole idea of a unified architecture is so there's a design uniformity across the board, including with future hardware. By using x86 or ARM CPU architectures and (again potentially) Vulcan APIs to interact with the GPUs, since they are the gold standard in the business right now, you can basically already confirm that the next string of hardware will be compatible with everything you purchase, that the "hardware cycle" no longer matters.
If I bought the console NX this year, but decided I'm done with consoles in a few years, when I buy the handheld NX2 a few years later, I already have an established library of titles to play right from the outset.
It also opens up the idea of infinite upgradability to certain games. Like I mentioned in a recent Mario Party thread, that's a game that doesn't really need multiple iterations. Just one iteration, that you upgrade with expansion packs via DLC, which become available as part of any full $60 purchase of the base game.
Basically, you can keep a single game active at retail for infinitely longer and continue generating full $60 purchases by refreshing the content you get with that full purchase, and permit prior buyers to extend the value of the purchase via substantial DLC updates.
Taking it one step further, if you want to take advantage of new visual bells and whistles or tweak the physics, that can be just another DLC expansion, since... I mean, c'mon, it's MARIO PARTY, how it plays doesn't change that much. And if games are going to carry forward and the physical media is designed to be a forward-thinking post-optical disc solution, it's a software design option that would disrupt the industry and make EA look like fools for not implementing this with their yearly sports roster updates already.
So yeah, depending on how Nintendo wants to roll with things, this could be intensely exciting.
They were banking on the fact that 100 million Wiis existed in the wild and that the likelihood of a Wii U buyer not having one was a slim to nil chance. And that's not an unreasonable thought. So most people probably didn't end up buying new controllers, it just extended the life of the ones they already had.
But at this point, the Wii accessory line needs to be cut off. Even if they want to keep Wiimotes as a thing people use to play (which I have extreme doubts about), they would cost practically nothing to build at this point, so redesign them with better parts, a rechargeable battery pack, rebrand it as a new controller design and throw one in with the machine.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
I'm talking something like 32MB of SRAM, as used on XBO. The issue with embedded RAM is that, to my knowledge, nobody's offering eDRAM on 28nm (Renesas said they were planning it 6 years ago, but there doesn't seem to be any publicly available info since then, so it was probably dropped when they decided to outsource 28nm to TSMC, who don't list eDRAM availability on their 28nm process). The alternative is SRAM, which is what Microsoft went with for the Xbox One, but SRAM is far less dense than eDRAM, which makes it substantially more expensive.
As an illustration, consider the following scale image of the Xbox One's APU (left) and the Wii U's GPU (right):
The Wii U's single large eDRAM pool has the same capacity (32MB) as the Xbox One's two SRAM pools, but you'll notice that the SRAM pools take up substantially more die space, even though the chip is manufactured on a smaller node (28nm versus 40nm).
At the time MS were putting the XBO together, SRAM was pretty much the only choice for the framebuffer in a split memory environment. Now, though, HBM2 would be a viable alternative, and although expensive, shouldn't be that expensive for just a single 1GB stack. They'd likely need HBM2, though, as HBM1 maxes out at 128GB/s per stack, so they'd really need two stacks (hence 2GB) to reach the kind of bandwidth they'd be looking for. On the other hand, HBM2 won't be hitting retail products until this summer, so may not be quite mature enough for Nintendo to go with it.
Edit: Actually, I was misremembering my PS4 and XBO bandwidths. A single 1GB stack of HBM1 at 128GB/s should do the job for a competitive console, when combined with 8GB of DDR3/4.
If the handheld were this year and the home console next, then yes, but if they release both at the same time, they can present a broadly competitive home console and also a handheld that can play pared-down versions of the same games.
Well, the S6 and 6S use chips made on Samsung's 14LPE, whereas AMD (and most chipmakers) seem to be targeting 14LPP, which is ramping up mass production at the moment (the Snapdragon 820 being the first chip made in large quantities on it, which should be in phones in a few months). Hard to say what yields will be like for a console launching late this year, but indications are that AMD will pretty much completely move over to 14nm and 16nm for their GPUs this year. They've talked about two Polaris GPUs, the smaller of which would provide "console class gaming in a thin and light laptop", which we could assume will be used in the entry-level 470/470X desktop cards. The next one we could assume would be used for 480/480X and more powerful laptop GPUs. The reports seem to indicate that there's also a "Vega" GPU being fabbed on TSMC's 16nm, which would likely be the high-end 490/490X.
I would deduce from that that 14LPP is going to offer better perf/W, but TSMC's 16nm will give them better large-die yields for the big desktop GPUs.
From a purely theoretical perspective, AMD is going to be putting out Polaris on 14LPP this summer, and there are going to be plenty of sub 100mm² 14LPP mobile chips doing the rounds late this year, so obviously the option is there for Nintendo to use a small Polaris-based 14nm APU for a November launch. The question is whether Nintendo would be willing put down the money on it. While it's unlikely, I wouldn't completely and totally rule it out. If Nintendo go with a single, non-3D screen (to ease cross-development), then there's not much else in the handheld that wouldn't be found in a $100 off-contract phone like the Moto E. It's not impossible that they could squeeze a small-die 14nm chip in there and still break even at $200.
Unless my memory is faulty, Sony purchased Renesas or acquired a majority share in the company.
I guess you're right. What I'm getting at, I think, is that I'm confident they can get the game done for this year. I just don't see it getting delayed again for development reasons; so what would cause a delay would rather be because of scheduling, as in "let's delay to have it at NX-launch in 2017" etc. But I think they know their schedule already; they know when NX is releasing, and they know when they want to release Zelda. And that's in 2016, partly because of anniversary (but also for a bunch of other reasons).
But whatever. This is all just my beliefs and speculation, so there's no worth to it, I just like writing stuff.
James Scott
Banned
I think that, unless NX has been pushed far back to holiday 2017, Nintendo would be stupid not to release Zelda on it.
New installments in those series take way too long make. This is a finished, unrushed Zelda game that a lot of people are excited for due out around the time the new system is likely due.
TP helped out the Wii at its launch quite a bit, I'd say.
If NX comes out this year
It makes no logical sense to have Zelda and NX fighting this holiday
Should you get wii u cheap with Zelda, or NX? Might as well pick up wii u and wait for NX down the line
It makes no sense for them to share that spot
On the other hand, if you have a choice to play it on either, they can pull a Twilight Princess and have a kick and launch
I think the choice is clear
Zelda is what I'm playing this holiday, it is up for Nintendo if they want me to play it on wii u or their new system
I think they would want me to buy an NX
If it comes in 2017, that's a different story
Sony purchased one of their manufacturing facilities to produce camera image sensors. I think TSMC may have purchased some of their other facilities, but I'm not entirely sure. The company was restructured a few years ago, which involved selling off quite a few pieces to different buyers.
Yea Nintendo would be crazy not the release Zelda on NX, they need major IP's at launch, and Zelda should be well done by then, it got a full year delay.
Releasing Zelda only on WiiU would lose a huge amount of sales on the NX
No there hasn't and that's why I called IGN out/what I was saying. It's all speculation.
Its Monday lol.
Herb Alpert
Banned
HamsterPackage
Member
Whats happening today?/Monday?
Herb Alpert
Banned
Am I doing it right? lol
Ok, forget about NX, now I'm hungry!
Did not know this...
Here is my crazy idea: The NX is not really a 'console'. It's a beefy controller that also works like a handheld. Think of a smaller WiiU pad. The controller works on PC/PS4/(XBO) this is then combined with a gaming service like EA access.
- Nintendo keeps the handheld market
- You still need to buy hardware to play their games
- They can make silly peripherals specific for their games
- No need to worry about getting the Call of Duties and such
- Third parties have lower costs because they already know the hardware (PC/PS4)
- No need to fight the competition console hardware wise
- Everybody wins
- Nintendo keeps the handheld market
- You still need to buy hardware to play their games
- They can make silly peripherals specific for their games
- No need to worry about getting the Call of Duties and such
- Third parties have lower costs because they already know the hardware (PC/PS4)
- No need to fight the competition console hardware wise
- Everybody wins
Sorry if anyone already said something like this.
These sort of ideas always make me laugh!
May I ask, how much money are Nintendo paying to use the PS4/Xbone tech?
I can see them porting Smash IF sakurai wouldn't be able to do another one soon. But for Splatoon and Mario Kart I expect full sequels. There won't be as much hype about a game that all die-hard nintendo gamers already own.
A proper Mario Kart 9 that builds on the fundations of Mario Kart 8, that can be played on portable and console, and expands the universe outside of Mario games like the DLC did.
I can see them doing a Wii U DLC pack with levels from Mario Kart 8 though. Remember, with DLC everything is on the table.
Same with splatoon. A proper splatoon 2 with the favorite Splatoon 1 maps in a DLC pack seems like a good compromise.
It's a Nintendo-like solution.
In all seriousness: The same as Activision does for Guitar Hero Live.
Or less. May I ask, why wouldn't Sony/Microsoft want Mario on their console?
ReyVGM
Member
-NX console will release later this year.
-NX handheld will release mid to late 2017.
-They will NOT share the same power. Portable game version will not look as good as console version (obvious).
-They WILL share the same environment or "OS", to make it easier to scale-down games to portable version, or vice versa to console version.
-Some games will be cross-platform, but not all. Don't expect Zelda U/NX to be scalable to the NX portable. Other titles will, such as Pikmin 4, Mario Kart, and the such.
-NX handheld will release mid to late 2017.
-They will NOT share the same power. Portable game version will not look as good as console version (obvious).
-They WILL share the same environment or "OS", to make it easier to scale-down games to portable version, or vice versa to console version.
-Some games will be cross-platform, but not all. Don't expect Zelda U/NX to be scalable to the NX portable. Other titles will, such as Pikmin 4, Mario Kart, and the such.
The funny thing is that they just need to add a single character and some balance changes to the NX version, and the whole competitive scene would see themselves to be forced to buy it just to have the most up to date version of the game.
Is this actual information, or just things you think will be true?
Kissenkopf
Banned
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