Support NeoGAF

[squall23]

An old friend was jailed for 90 days for threatening and harassing a girl online. This was prior to the rise of social media too.

 

[enemy2k]

Fuck Gamergate and their disgusting creepy supporters.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Read it here: http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/zoe-quinn-harassment-charges-eron-gjoni/



People can only make criminal complaints. It's up to investigators and prosecutors to lay charges. If you personally "go after" someone, you can only do it in a civil case, criminal charges are always brought by the state.

Completely side tracking here but can you not bring private prosecutions in the US? You can in the UK.

 

[Lord British]

At least, the question "what do you think of GG?" is a great way to identify sub-humans.

Calling people "sub-humans" is really incredibly unhelpful. I would argue that it's best to remember that GamerGate are absolutely humans, frustrated and lashing out. Supporting GamerGate does not make one a sub-human, it just makes them a fucking idiot and probably an asshole.

I realise this might be semantics but I'm always troubled by "sub-human" as a term of derision.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Calling people "sub-humans" is really incredibly unhelpful. I would argue that it's best to remember that GamerGate are absolutely humans, frustrated and lashing out. Supporting GamerGate does not make one a sub-human, it just makes them a fucking idiot and probably an asshole.

I realise this might be semantics but I'm always troubled by "sub-human" as a term of derision.

Would it be better to characterize them as humans who behave in inhuman fashions?

 

[Lord British]

Would it be better to characterize them as humans who behave in inhuman fashions?

Yeah, I'd say so! But I don't want to be That Guy any more than I already have.

 

[TBiddy]

Would it be better to characterize them as humans who behave in inhuman fashions?

So.. humans then. I think a vast majority of the human beings alive right now have at some point or another, done something "inhuman".

 

[Zocano]

Read this.

This was a good read. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Yoshi]

The whole "ethics in journalism," thing that Gamer Gate is based on (and which is a smoke screen for misogyny) is based on Gjoni's claim that Quinn slept with a Kotaku writer in exchange for a favorable review of Depression Quest ( a game that is 100 percent free by the way).

This is straight from Kotaku:

Did he really claim that she did it in order to get a favourable review? Must have missed that when reading / skimming the text, my take-away from it was that he claimed / his main point was she's a bad girlfriend. Which is no reason to go crazy about, since it does not have anything to do with her job, for all I care a developer might be the shittiest shithead of all shitheads, if the game he produces is good, it is good and I will play it.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

It reminds me of the comment section of this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuNIwYsz7PI




He hits it on the head. It's not just judges and legislators. Everybody has to understand online harassment. And not just for womens sake- Also for guys sake.

 

[BocoDragon]

I'm not surprised.

The very nature of gamergate is that it's a mob shielded by popular misunderstanding of how online interactions affect the real world.

"This is some gamer thing? You pissed off some nerds I guess? Why can't you stay offline? This can't be serious...."

It's like a gang is hovering outside a woman's front door every day, making gleeful threats, but the powers that be can't even see it.

 

[wickfut]

An amazing coincidence?

Quinn just so happens to drop the legal fight at the time Gjoni raises the full funds to legally fight her in court.

 

[Vhalyar]

So.. humans then. I think a vast majority of the human beings alive right now have at some point or another, done something "inhuman".

Alright then. So they are humans who have voluntarily relinquished their dignity, leaving something impressively sad and lesser.

You'll have to forgive me if I don't exactly have any compassion for gaters, one of my best friends is going through something very similar. She left her workplace - where I also work - due to harassment from someone, and now that person is plaguing her. The game industry is still a small place, and her boss is doing a very good job at riling up other employees and networking against her.

Every day I see that person keep talking shit about her, bring her up at any opportunity, spreading rumors, and so on. That was over a year ago and he's still at it.

End result she's working outside of games now, despite games being her passion and what motivated her to become an engineer.

 

[A Link to the Past]

So.. humans then. I think a vast majority of the human beings alive right now have at some point or another, done something "inhuman".

I've got a pretty high standard for inhuman behaviour. I don't just mean to chew on your nuts like a dog :v

 

[Lord British]

Alright then. So they are humans who have voluntarily relinquished their dignity, leaving something impressively sad and lesser.

You'll have to forgive me if I don't exactly have any compassion for gaters, one of my best friends is going through something very similar. She left her workplace - where I also work - due to harassment from someone, and now that person is plaguing her. The game industry is still a small place, and her boss is doing a very good job at riling up other employees and networking against her.

Every day I see that person keep talking shit about her, bring her up at any opportunity, spreading rumors, and so on. That was over a year ago and he's still at it.

End result she's working outside of games now, despite games being her passion and what motivated her to become an engineer.

Sorry about that, I didn't mean to undermine you or your friend's experience.

 

[Dunkley]

An amazing coincidence?

Quinn just so happens to drop the legal fight at the time Gjoni raises the full funds to legally fight her in court.

What does he wanna sue her for? The Wordpress post is public knowledge and his allegations against her in terms of nepotism have been debunked back and forth.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Yeah, one thing to remember is that there are GG sympathizers in various positions in the industry who keep quiet, but still have influence.

 

[Vhalyar]

Sorry about that, I didn't mean to undermine you or your friend's experience.

No issue taken, didn't mean to come off as pushy. The whole thing is just very close to my heart because I'm seeing the damage they - and others sharing that kind of behaviour - have first hand and it's pretty crushing.

 

[Lutherian]

My point with the Rwanda is that a lot of people got brainwashed by the "Radio des Mille Collines" with tons of hate speech, making people turn against each other. You know the results ? Ask Wikipedia.

Sure, I hate censorship too. But borders are made to avoid getting to this point. I don't like Zoe Quinn, but I don't think everyone here would be happy by learning that she's been raped and killed by some retard GG or whatever.

 

[Sheentak]

"All kinds of stupid shit" like spreading racial, religious, and sexual orientation hatred.

Yeah "stupid shit."

People have been jailed for calling politicians cunts.

 

[lupinko]

I know this is not going to be a popular opinion, but they're right that saying "I'm going to rape that bitch" is not a crime. Nor should it be. If it were, imagine how many people would have been arrested by now for posting hateful things about politicians on Facebook. Now, obviously this isn't a nice thing to do, and if you actually send threats to her personally somehow, you should be charged with harassment.

But going on reddit and reading through a subgroup dedicated to people who disagree with you, and being shocked to see threatening messages or language, is a bit over the top, in my opinion.

They were killed by words?? I'm pretty sure they were killed by actual physical people wielding guns. Now you could try and argue that, had hate speech been illegal it would never have come to that, but suppressing people's opinion and forcing them to keep it to themselves is rarely helpful in that way.

Actually, words did play a role in the Rwandan genocide because of the constant hate speech did play a huge role in the actual killings. And the Tutsis weren't just shot, they were also hacked up with machetes.

 

[Bold One]

I can only hope that the internet and social media become so entrenched into everyday life for such a time that stuff like this becomes a distant memory and future generations never have to deal with it.

sounds like a horrible existence to me

Gamergate is a fucking embarrassment for all of us,

this is life, in reality the bad guys can and often win

 

[lazygecko]

I'm not surprised.

The very nature of gamergate is that it's a mob shielded by popular misunderstanding of how online interactions affect the real world.

"This is some gamer thing? You pissed off some nerds I guess? Why can't you stay offline? This can't be serious...."

It's like a gang is hovering outside a woman's front door every day, making gleeful threats, but the powers that be can't even see it.

It's pretty much the western equivalent of Saudi Arabians going "why doesn't she just stay in her house? Problem solved!"

 

[QuickSilverD]

Oh he's an active participant all right. Look at what kind of person he really is:

He has the legal right to defend himself against arguably unconstitutional restrictions to his freedoms. Wouldn't you do the same if someone did that against you?

 

[Henkka]

I get that he's a douche, but I'm unsure what the legal case against him would be. As far as I know, the "Zoe post" didn't break any laws. Slander, I guess? But for that to stick, you would have to prove that the allegations were false. He may be morally responsible for the fallout of that post, but legally he can't be punished for the actions of others, right?

 

[dity]

People have been jailed for calling politicians cunts.

...And? Where? When? What context?

Sorry for being ignorant but I basically failed to follow any of the gamer gate stuff and chose instead not to read it, I now wish to understand what happened. Is there anywhere with a good overview of the whole affair?

Every time.

 

[empyrean]

Sorry for being ignorant but I basically failed to follow any of the gamer gate stuff and chose instead not to read it, I now wish to understand what happened. Is there anywhere with a good overview of the whole affair?

 

[darkinstinct]

An old friend was jailed for 90 days for threatening and harassing a girl online. This was prior to the rise of social media too.

Well, from reading some court documents, police reports et all it seems quite clear that Zoe Quinn simply doesn't have proof that Eron Gjoni actually harassed her. He posted that original paper on her sex life, but that was not factually wrong, maybe morally questionable but nothing he couldn't do under freedom of speech. Then the thing blew up but nothing links him to leaking her private information or actually harassing or threatening her. So Zoe Quinn would never have won the case against him, that is the real reason she dropped this. It would have only cost her money.

I give her props for effort because sexual harassment of women is a thing on the internet but she handled the whole situation very bad. It's like the perfect example how not to handle a shitstorm. Either just let it pass cause it will be over in a couple of days or if you are unable to do that just don't do social media period. And if you need to do it for professional reasons don't put yourself out there but hide behind a company and/or alter ego. That's been the SOP for Twitter in my company for years. Customers saying "I will fucking kill you, Thomas, if you don't send me a new one" are half as scary when your name is not actually Thomas.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

...And? Where? When? What context?

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-04/16/convicted-after-saying-c-word

Found this with a quick google search.

The problem with this whole situation is that people in charge rarely have a clue on how things actually work. They might know the basics but to know how it works in practice is something entirely different so when they suddenly face it themselves they realise how much it can affect someone.

 

[BocoDragon]

It's pretty much the western equivalent of Saudi Arabians going "why doesn't she just stay in her house? Problem solved!"

Yeah maybe so. We more easily grasp the concept of rape in western culture and think we're so enlightened... But tell an older person about an online mob issue involving videogames and they'll be tempted to feel "I don't understand this world... why don't you just not?"

 

[hodgy100]

People have been jailed for calling politicians cunts.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-04/16/convicted-after-saying-c-word

Found this with a quick google search.

The problem with this whole situation is that people in charge rarely have a clue on how things actually work. They might know the basics but to know how it works in practice is something entirely different so when they suddenly face it themselves they realise how much it can affect someone.

well that's a bad application of the law and I disagree with it. But there is obviously a huge difference between calling someone a cunt and saying you are going to rape/kill them.

Insults and threats are not the same thing. like criticism abuse is not the same thing. These things have somehow become heavily conflated.

 

[dity]

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-04/16/convicted-after-saying-c-word

Found this with a quick google search.

The problem with this whole situation is that people in charge rarely have a clue on how things actually work. They might know the basics but to know how it works in practice is something entirely different so when they suddenly face it themselves they realise how much it can affect someone.

"Jailed for the word cunt"

"It's silly posting a picture of a house on Twitter without an address, that will come later. Please feel free to post actual shit."

Yeah, I'll bet it was for the word "cunt". He also has an active history of disrupting the council. What a clickbait article:

In October 2011, Kerlen was arrested for two offences, harassment and incitement to commit criminal damage after sending the aforementioned tweets. In December 2011, he was found not guilty of harassment and charged with sending "grossly offensive malicious communications" and issued with a restraining order. In court, he was charged with "grossly offensive malicious communications". On Friday 13 April we was found guilty and issued with a restraining order which stipulated that he couldn't write any blogs or social media posts that criticised Bexley Council or have contact with the councillor in question. District Judge Julia Newton said the tweets were "both grossly offensive and menacing". She referred to both the insulting language and the invitation for people to "post actual shit" to the councillor.

Clickbait.

well that's a bad application of the law and I disagree with it. But there is obviously a huge difference between calling someone a cunt and saying you are going to rape/kill them.

Insults and threats are not the same thing. like criticism abuse is not the same thing. These things have somehow become heavily conflated.

Don't take their word for it, read the actual article. They're full of it.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Quite predictable if you were following the case. Eren posted on Reddit as /u/qrios and was fairly regular in posting what updates he was legally able to provide. IANAL, but plaintiff's case always seemed thin from my lay reading of the various dockets and filings.

I guess this is the most appropriate gif:

 

[hodgy100]

"Jailed for the word cunt"



Yeah, I'll bet it was for the word "cunt". He also has an active history of disrupting the council. What a clickbait article:



Clickbait.



Don't take their word for it, read the actual article. They're full of it.

holy shit yeah. should've actually read it. So he wasn't jailed for calling someone a cunt but because they were being intimidating by posting pictures of someone's house essentially marking a target. Yeah that's not cool, clearly inciting abuse.

 

[Messofanego]

Eron Gjoni, Hateful Boyfriend

Oh boy. Didn't know how much he shopped around the zoepost to maximise virality before uploading it to 4chan. Sensationalism at its ugliest.

Then crowdfunding against his restraining order.

 

[igordennis]

iirc I dont think he ever claimed any of that, in fact all of the posts had been, here's stuff showing that Zoe Quinn is kind of a dick. It was mostly other people who connected the dots together and led the forces. He was just mostly a spiteful ex, which in reality, he really didnt do anything that badly other then just air out some dirty laundry.

I dont think this case was dropped because of the reasons she stated, im pretty sure it was lost because she has absolutely no legal precedent and absolutely no chance of ainning a legal battle over anything that the dude did. Im sure she experienced general tech ineptitude from people in the court, but then she's hiring horrible lawyers who arent able to convey whats going on properly.

IDK why she was even going after him tbh.

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

Read the blog post. He's an abuser. The end.

 

[MarionCB]

Don't take their word for it, read the actual article. They're full of it.

He also wasn't jailed in the end. He got 80 hours community service and 620 pound fine to cover prosecution costs. Also, he not only had a long history of bad, disruptive and threatening behaviour towards the council (even the company hosting his blog had sent him a letter a year earlier telling him to tone down his language or they'd take his blog down) but--plot twist--he lived in the house opposite to the councillor at the time of the incident.

 

[Raist]

I get that he's a douche, but I'm unsure what the legal case against him would be. As far as I know, the "Zoe post" didn't break any laws. Slander, I guess? But for that to stick, you would have to prove that the allegations were false. He may be morally responsible for the fallout of that post, but legally he can't be punished for the actions of others, right?

Well yeah, but she didn't sue him for libel, and just asked for a court to issue a restraining order. The fact that she's dropping the case now I think is more likely because the appeal would have gone through.

 

[marmoka]

This is horrible. With all the harassment Zoe is suffering, and has suffered, I'm sure she has good reasons for this. I wouldn't forgive that guy, but it's easier to say what I would do when I'm not in her position, and I'm not the victim. We are brave people in front of the computer, but not that brave in real life.

After this decision, if that guy helps to stop all this GamerGate shit, and all the people who are suffering (and have suffered) the consequences of all this can finally live in peace, then we could conclude she made the right choice. But I don't think this will happen, I don't believe he will consider all the damage he has done either. And all those nazis will continue harassing people.

Zoe, don't give up with this fight. You're not alone.

 

[TBiddy]

End result she's working outside of games now, despite games being her passion and what motivated her to become an engineer.

Sorry to hear about your friend. That situation sucks for everyone involved. Isn't there a union you can contact with regards to this?

With regards to our "discussion" - Bullying, harassing and the likes are as much a part of our human nature as anything else, unfortunately. It has been around forever and will probably stay around forever. The 'new' thing is that it has become much easier to bully and harrass anyone thanks to the internet and social media.

 

[Theanine3D]

The people citing "free speech' as a defense for online harassment don't seem to take into account the huge impact harassment has on mental health. Many of those vile GGers and harassers probably won't actually carry out their threats, but they don't need to to cause a great deal of harm.

I don't care how much of a tough guy you think you are. If thousands of people are sending you death threats every single day, it WILL start to affect you emotionally, mentally, and physically (mental health affects our physical bodies too) eventually. And the moment someone's speech becomes something that harms others, they lose the right to claim "free speech" as a right. "Free speech" is trumped by other people's right to live a happy, healthy life.

Anita will forever be a hero to me because I know if I had to endure even half of the abuse she's dealt with, I would have cracked by now, deleted all my social media accounts, and gone into hiding. The bravery she continues to show is absolutely admirable.

 

[dity]

He also wasn't jailed in the end. He got 80 hours community service and 620 pound fine to cover prosecution costs. Also, he not only had a long history of bad, disruptive and threatening behaviour towards the council (even the company hosting his blog had sent him a letter a year earlier telling him to tone down his language or they'd take his blog down) but--plot twist--he lived in the house opposite to the councillor at the time of the incident.

That's fucking scary.

 

[Peltz]

It reminds me of the comment section of this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuNIwYsz7PI




He hits it on the head. It's not just judges and legislators. Everybody has to understand online harassment. And not just for womens sake- Also for guys sake.

Wow, I really need to start watching John Oliver, don't I? I didn't realize how articulate he could be.

 

[SaucyJack]

He has the legal right to defend himself against arguably unconstitutional restrictions to his freedoms. Wouldn't you do the same if someone did that against you?

Actually no. I'd probably just get over it and leave her alone.

 

[SolidChamp]

“Is there any way to back out?” Quinn emailed assistant District Attorney Mary Nguyen on Jan. 15. “He did another post yesterday and now stuff like this is popping up. . . . ”

She attached a screenshot from the Reddit topic thread “GGFreeForAll”: “If Eron goes to jail,” the post reads, “I will hunt Zoe Quinn down and rape her.”

Is Reddit the new 4chan? I will NEVER understand how that fucking site exists.

I can't even read the shit, it's so chaotic and illegible.

 

[A Link to the Past]

He has the legal right to defend himself against arguably unconstitutional restrictions to his freedoms. Wouldn't you do the same if someone did that against you?

No, I would not be in a situation where every time I mentioned a person it would cause that person to become the target of harassment and say "wellp, time to mention them"

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Wow, I really need to start watching John Oliver, don't I? I didn't realize how articulate he could be.

He and his writing staff. And yes, his stuff is top notch.

 

[Nanashrew]

The people citing "free speech' as a defense for online harassment don't seem to take into account the huge impact harassment has on mental health. Many of those vile GGers and harassers probably won't actually carry out their threats, but they don't need to to cause a great deal of harm.

I don't care how much of a tough guy you think you are. If thousands of people are sending you death threats every single day, it WILL start to affect you emotionally, mentally, and physically (mental health affects our physical bodies too) eventually. And the moment someone's speech becomes something that harms others, they lose the right to claim "free speech" as a right. "Free speech" is trumped by other people's right to live a happy, healthy life.

Anita will forever be a hero to me because I know if I had to endure even half of the abuse she's dealt with, I would have cracked by now, deleted all my social media accounts, and gone into hiding. The bravery she continues to show is absolutely admirable.

Not many like Dawkins (I don't) but he suffered a stroke recently from the stress by harassment IIRC. Words really do affect people and in many different ways.

The whole mentality that they don't is dumb and deadly.

 

[FyreWulff]

I do think online threats should be taken seriously, but from what I read on his blog and all the evidence he posted, Eron Gjoni didn't advocate anything. On his blog/tumblr/etc. he only really posted evidence of her admitting to cheating on him multiple times and sort of manipulating her way around taking responsibility for it. He never told his "audience" to do anything. She honestly seems like a shitty liar to me.

And about sexual details or w/e, I'm afraid I didn't see that in the blog. I'm not sure if he deleted it but everything posted looks fair.

Except most of his "evidence" is easily disprovable and even stated a review score was due to favors.. even though the named person never even wrote the review claimed annnnnnnnd he's outright posted creepy, threatening shit on the PA Forums (where he got banned from) and also the fucking fact that it doesn't matter to larger society what someone does with their genitals even if it were true. If you're writing War and Peace length blogs about your ex online, I don't think the problem is the ex.

 

[TouchMyBox]

The dude was fucking devastated. People kill other people everyday over relationship stories like that, so of course he's going to wish she's never going to be happy again. I agree that it's dumb to say such things and to want hell on someone, but it's understandable in these type of cases.
He's still not responsible for Gamer Gate and all the horrible things that happened to Quinn, in my honest opinion.

Edit : After checking some articles, yeah it's even more dumb that most of it was a lie.

We're pretending that psychopathic behaviour is understandable now? :