And they describe clearly on their website what that designation means? How is that arrogant lol.
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XB1X 4K standard includes checkerboard and dynamic
- Thread starter nynt9
- Start date
And they describe clearly on their website what that designation means? How is that arrogant lol.
To my knowledge there isn't a dedicated upscaler but the hardware has a lot of extra power to be able to handle that.
I honestly don't think I could tell the difference between quality of 4K. What matters more to me is frame rate and 4K at 60 FPS isn't going to be a thing with the big games for the Xbox One X.
To me the strength of the Xbox One X doesn't have much to do with power advantages. To me it's the backwards compatibility across 3 generations, the console size/aesthetics, the 4K blu-ray player, and Xbox Live that are the main appeals.
To me the strength of the Xbox One X doesn't have much to do with power advantages. To me it's the backwards compatibility across 3 generations, the console size/aesthetics, the 4K blu-ray player, and Xbox Live that are the main appeals.
Resident_UA
Member
*4k it means it might not be 4k. Lol
GHG
Member
What's this then?:
Phil Spencer said:
Can you explain to be how that statement isn't misleading based on the facts presented in the OP?
Beer Monkey
Member
"You realize you will see every game in 1080p- I mean 4k as your output right?"
Remember Phil Harrison in 2005?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/news131205harrison
Third party games usually looked better on X360, and key titles literally rendered in higher resolution on 360, but according to Sony they weren't HD because they weren't on the PS3.
The more the industry changes, the more it stays the same.
Digital Foundry threads are going to be reminiscent of years ago.
Checkerboard and Dynamic resolution are different things.
Neuromancer
Member
It's not the same 4K, it's not the same content.
If those people paid extra to get a 4K TV, maybe they do care about resolution.
Risk Breaker
Member
Nah I don't think so, 900p on a 4k or even 1080p screen looks very blurry due to lower than native resolution that doesn't scale well. I'd say it will probably be more like 1600p vs 4k, depending on the algorithm. And if the games keep looking a lot better (Horizon, GoW, GT Sport) at that point that resolution difference is not really that important.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
But but PS4 PRO is comparable to Xbox One S!
Again, it's about the context that Phil Spencer calls their box a "true" 4k console, while the PS4 Pro is supposedly "competing with the Xbox One S".
While they're both in the same exact position - not with regards to raw horsepower, but with regards to their "trueness" of 4k rendering - i.e. 'not all the time'.
You're barely trying here. See my post for some of the other differences. In the end, the games matter the most, but you're being naive saying there's no other difference.
Complicated
Banned
Because the One X was designed to allow developers to make native 4k games while the Ps4 Pro was designed to allow for checkerboard 4k games as stated by both companies who designed and marketed them. It's really not difficult to understand unless you try to interpret everything in the worst possible way.
Luckydog
Member
Wow, MS should apply ice to your sick burn....I hope you dont get any of your salt on their burn.....
Indeed. That comment was just so bizarre. Their box is significantly stronger, why not focus on that instead of making silly comparisons that are certain to blow up in their face?
Risk Breaker
Member
Yeah, only Phil Harrison left Sony 9 years ago.
Aaron Greenberg is still MS's main marketing guy.
Also, one was beautified PR speak to make themselves look more attractive without really saying anything concrete while the other one is lying openly to get around facts like resolution.
MilkyJoe
Member
From their own site:
https://news.xbox.com/2017/06/11/new-packaging-icons-xbox/
Despite their claims about "true 4K" and thus not competing with the pro, they're using the same techniques.
The Assassin's Creed Origins director confirms here that the game will be dynamic 4k on XB1X: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtllzLCt1WY
Edit: there seems to be some confusion. Yes, this is old news for some but clearly new to others going by posts in this thread. Also, this thread is a reaction to Spencer's comments from recent interviews, as explained here:
For the record, I don't think there's anything wrong with checkerboarding or even dynamic 4K. I think they're fine techniques. I also think a "native 4k mandate for all games" would be a bad idea anyway.
Are you going to take your ball home with you too?
EventHorizon
Member
Native 4K is a marketing/legacy trap for devs. The power needed to go from checkerboarded 4K to native 4K would be better used for other parts of the game. Unfortunately, marketing will push for it because it is easier to sell, and devs can't do too much else anyway because their games still have to run on the base console. Resolution is easy to scale between hardware with different capabilities.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
GHG
Member
It's misleading. It seems that some companies think they can get away with saying anything as long as they asterisk it these days.
In marketing it's best practice to not use an asterisk unless it's absolutely necessary, especially if the information provided in the annotation contradicts the information provided above.
The vast majority of consumers do not read the asterisk and hence their only takeaway will be the initial bold statement.
This isn't about what the consoles were designed for, it's about how they are being marketed to the public. He is saying one thing but the reality paints a very different picture, as usual. But hey, it seems to be working so brownie points.
SEGAvangelist
Member
I mean... it's just an opinion, but I've seen games running at checkerboard resolutions with 1080p assets compared to 4K resolution with 4K assets, and it's pretty major to me. It looks much bigger than 900p to 1080p.
Also, what EvB said.
RedlineRonin
Member
Get that.
Do you think third parties are likely to leverage entirely different rendering techniques for each console?
That's not what I said.
First, from the DF write up on PS4 Pro, talking about native 4K versus 1800c, then scaled up to 2160p
So now that we've established it's "difficult" (i'm being generous there) to tell the diff between 1800c and native 4K, let alone 1800c and 2160c (which is what I said in my initial post), the argument isn't that people "care about resolution," it's that the HW MS has created won't likely create meaningful differences in third party titles.
He's talking about monetary budget, not processing budget
But jeez, we are splitting hairs here and dissecting Phil's marketing speak. The Xbox One X is literally more powerful than the Pro, so it will without question be able to hit 'true' 4K more often than the Pro will. However, since there is no mandate, developers can do whatever the fuck they want (and if they choose sub 4K they will). Sitting here trying to define what 'trueness' means in Phil's eyes is a fool's errand. 6 teraflops is greater than 4 teraflops by quite a bit, so it should conceivably have the ability to hit that target far more often.
vpance
Member
No they are basically doing the same thing the movie industry is. Movies are shot and film is scanned in all sorts of ways at a variety of resolutions. And they do vaseline effects too 😁
I mean... The 900p vs 1080p part of your post was explicitly comparing with the same assets so this response doesn't counter the post you're quoting. With same assets, checkerboard 4k vs native 4k should be smaller than 900p vs 1080p.
That being said, the X1X should be able to push better assets. That's right. But I don't agree with the first part of your previous post.
I'd say so , given that checkerboard rendering has a very specific implementation on PS4 Pro which none of the other consoles can use.
texhnolyze
Banned
This is so fucked up.
Its still not a true 4k system.(his words) regardless of what you are trying to spin back in his favor. Its false. He is making it seem like its native 4k when literally it may just get a few more games native than the pro but still needs techniques to allow for other games to reach that output like the pro. Splitting hairs is over exaggerating its capabilities to people.
recursive
Member
No need to be so sensitive. The OP is highlighting misrepresentation of information that could easily be overlooked by only viewing MS marketing material claiming the X is the only true 4k console.
Tripolygon
Banned
There are specific hardwares in PS4 Pro GPU designed specifically to aid developers to use checkerboard rendering at minimal cost. And no it isn't a one size fits all solution, devs are allowed to implement their own solutions as well.
Leyasu
Banned
Lol indeed.
They have already stated plenty that it is to the devs.
No lies detected
Christocolus
Member
You've forgotten the same was done to the Switch the week it was revealed. Lol. It's a pity pre-orders ain't gone live yet. Will hopefully get one at launch or early next year.
Risk Breaker
Member
Okay, first, people really need to start saying what do they mean with "4k assets". Is it higher resolution textures, better SSAO? Because polycounts and draw distances are not going to be a thing.
Second, if we're going to be talking textures now:
Are these "4k assets" or XB1 assets at 4k?
Well, Phil goes out of his way to make up a very distinct line as to where "trueness" lies. namely above what the Pro can do. So it's fair to discuss whether or not that line he drew is reasonable or meaningful.
Beyond that, i agree with you. The Xbox One X is the better console - the most powerful console on the market for the next few years, and multiplats are going to look and run better on it. I'm just somewhat baffled Microsoft feels the need to consider themselves "first across the finish line" - why aren't they content with "most powerful"? Why did they need to create a specific category for themselves, in which they could say "first!". Being first has no inherent value. You need to sell people on why the extra performance on your console is worth those 100-150 bucks (i'm still thinking that the Pro is going to receive a price drop before the One X)
Complicated
Banned
This thread got into embarrassing territory pretty quickly. So glad Microsoft is not constraining developers with arbitrary mandates about game performance.
InsaneTiger
Member
Makes sense, I'm out.
I can't blame them tbh. Now that we have checkerboarding, you can use the word 4K, even when you're really only hitting (pseudo-)1800p with that. Whether you can actually notice the difference is another story, but the gap to native 4K is simply one of the few selling points they have and want to emphasize.
I don't think dynamic res goes against 'true 4K' - it's a conscious and smart decision to prioritze framerate when necessary, but you are actually hitting that 4K. If you hit it more often than not, then I think that would still be in line with that slogan.
If that's what they are actually doing in AC: Origins, I wouldn't call that true 4K either.
I know the PS4P has dedicated hardware. I was referring to the X1X.
MilkyJoe
Member
They are screen grabs from a youtube video
MosquitoSmasher
Member
But if AC Origins isn't native 4K, what differences are there going to be at all between X and Pro?
Of course they were impressed by it, it's a beautiful step up from the PS4 version due to it being one of the first examples of 4K checkerboard rendering on the system.
However they highlighted this as a downside of the PS4 Pro not having enough overhead to deal with other improvements.
Digital Foundry said:
The point is, we can argue over 4k vs Checkerboarding til we are blue in the face, but due to the PS4 Pros limitations, we will start to see images just like the one above, but instead of PS4 and PC, it will be PS4 Pro and Xbox One X side by side.
I would love to see demos from several different developers showing what Xbox One X is capable of in terms of graphics fidelity / detail and lighting when the pixel count is limited to merely; HD 1280 x 720p.
Imagine all its graphics performance, memory bandwidth etc put towards the above. Show us something surpassing Toy Story in real time.
Imagine all its graphics performance, memory bandwidth etc put towards the above. Show us something surpassing Toy Story in real time.
In the case of that game, probably higher quality effects like shadow/draw distance/AF and possibly the dynamic 4K sticking to full 4K more often than the pro.
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