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[Papacheeks]

For a multitude of reasons. Price being one. And I wouldn't call it "spanked" if they were able to make up the deficit in a mere two months. PS4 sold great, but the idea that Xbox was not selling well is just not true. Historically it was selling about what Xbox always has through the slow months.

The other big reason is momentum. There's no question that ps4 had more momentum stemming from E3 2013

Not sure what this has to do with the price of Xbox

HAS TO DO WITH RELEASE SCHEDULE THAT i TALKED ABOUT. Not having smaller games to help pad your release schedule hurts you in the long run for your user base. You want them constantly playing games from the store front for recurring revenue and shows healthy ecosystem for games from smaller developers to sell.

There have been digital sales for EVERY exclusive game on either system. Again I'm not sure what this to do with Xbox console price drops.

Again this goes with reoccurring revenue from people invested in your storefront. When someone buy's your console during that time period for 329-350 you lost ton's of money on that sale, so you want to re-coup it by having that customer make digital purchases through the storefront. And that is a 2 way street, bring awareness to smaller games, brings in revenue, and makes their ecosystem look more viable for pending developers.

Why did Sony or every other company under the sun have Black Friday deals?

There's a difference of having black friday deals that last a week or weekend, and another to start the deals at the beginning of the November and run it for 2 months

To drum up sales for their product.

I agree on this one, but also shows how desperate they want you on their console, I never saw Sony taking trade in's at their store's when PS3 released.

To your last point all this is not conjecture, MS has a brand issue. One that will not be corrected long Term by fire sales.


Doing this price cut they did, and bundling it with games not their own hurts them. Assassins Creed along with COD are slowing each year with sales.

Next year Assassin Creed will sell even less than this year, so Ubisoft will want way more for the bundle deal.

MS needs to start making money on their Division, and fire sales are only slowing the progress they could be making by staying the course, and promoting exclusive games, and showing more what's to come on xbox that you can;t get on any other platform.

Feel bad that Sunset Overdrive has been drowned out by a shitty Assassins Creed game bundled with the system.

 

[FStop7]

The only thing that's actually making me want to get an Xbone before the price hike is the fact that BB and the Microsoft Store are offering $50 giftcards with the purchase.

I bought one and so far I like it, except that the OS is a mess. I can't believe what a step backward it is from the 360. But I am really digging the controller, particularly the rumble in the triggers. I play racing games with controllers rather than wheels, so I appreciate that aspect a lot. But yeah, the discount + the BB gift card are what put me over the edge, too.

 

[semiconscious]

Let's face it, they were forced to buy market share in the US and UK in order to stay relevant...

because they're the only markets they have left. because they've basically ignored/surrendered the rest of the planet (up to & including the holiday sale). which, for me, is still the most stunningly out-of-touch aspect of ms' current-gen 'strategy'...

 

[Papacheeks]

because they're the only markets they have left. because they've basically ignored/surrendered the rest of the planet (up to & including the holiday sale). which, for me, is still the most stunningly out-of-touch aspect of ms' current-gen 'strategy'...

BINGO!!

It's just funny that people on these thread's fail to see it.


MS has a short term view for their system instead of long term.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

HAS TO DO WITH RELEASE SCHEDULE THAT i TALKED ABOUT. Not having smaller games to help pad your release schedule hurts you in the long run for your user base. You want them constantly playing games from the store front for recurring revenue and shows healthy ecosystem for games from smaller developers to sell.

Nobody is buying these systems for indies, and Xbox has plenty of indies coming. They seem to just show up out of the blue instead of being announced months in advance. There's also ori and the blind Forrest which while not classified as an "indie" fits in this space pretty well.

Again this goes with reoccurring revenue from people invested in your storefront. When someone buy's your console during that time period for 329-350 you lost ton's of money on that sale, so you want to re-coup it by having that customer make digital purchases through the storefront. And that is a 2 way street, bring awareness to smaller games, brings in revenue, and makes their ecosystem look more viable for pending developers.

Sure thing, but as I said exclusive games on both consoles have had digital sales. So this dynamic you speak of would apply to Playstaion as well. If so, why ask the question in the first place?

There's a difference of having black friday deals that last a week or weekend, and another to start the deals at the beginning of the November and run it for 2 months

You could find plenty of deals on plenty of products including PS4 during this time period.

I agree on this one, but also shows how desperate they want you on their console, I never saw Sony taking trade in's at their store's when PS3 released.

It's not a practice Sony has used before. Microsoft has used this strategy multiple times spanning multiple products. Even offering trade ins on their own products.

Sony doesnt approach retail the same way Microsoft does. And that has nothing to do with either console or price drops.

To your last point all this is not conjecture, MS has a brand issue. One that will not be corrected long Term by fire sales.

What you posted here is the definition of conjecture.

Doing this price cut they did, and bundling it with games not their own hurts them. Assassins Creed along with COD are slowing each year with sales.

Next year Assassin Creed will sell even less than this year, so Ubisoft will want way more for the bundle deal.

More conjecture.

MS needs to start making money on their Division, and fire sales are only slowing the progress they could be making by staying the course, and promoting exclusive games, and showing more what's to come on xbox that you can;t get on any other platform.

......and more

Feel bad that Sunset Overdrive has been drowned out by a shitty Assassins Creed game bundled with the system.

Sunset overdrive bundle sold out and it was/is moderately successful for a new IP.

Again what the hell does this have to do with the topic at hand?

Seems like your just going through a "my opinion on why Xbox is bad" checklist.

 

[truth411]

So I'll ask nice, why was Microsoft getting spanked for 10 months in a row this year? They released more First party games than Sony but up till November were getting beat every month even with the price cut to 399?

Why are there less released Indie games on Xbox?

Why are their digital sales for games like exclusives D4 not doing well?

Why did they have to drop the price to 350, and for black friday 329?
Why were they taking trade in's on PS3;s in their own Microsoft store?

Answer these and maybe people will stop arguing with your outlook.

No they didn't.

 

[Papacheeks]

Nobody is buying these systems for indies, and Xbox has plenty of indies coming. They seem to just show up out of the blue instead of being announced months in advance. There's also ori and the blind Forrest which while not classified as an "indie" fits in this space pretty well.

Games like Orc's must Die Unchained, Loadout, Planet Side 2, Killing Floor 2(Indie) are exciting games worth owning the console for if you don't have a PC. They are smaller titles that can have a huge impact, and are not coming to Microsoft's console because of PARITY.

If you showed me Killing Floor 2, Loadout, Planetside 2 and told me I could buy the system for 399 and play 2 of those games without having to have PS+ that's awesome value.

Sure thing, but as I said exclusive games on both consoles have had digital sales. So this dynamic you speak of would apply to Playstaion as well. If so, why ask the question in the first place?

Because Playstation is giving you reasons to stay in their ecosystem every month, with PS+ discounts on games big or small and preorder incentives. Like paying 53.99 or 49.99 for a digital preorder. Which is what you want after you sold a console at a loss.

You could find plenty of deals on plenty of products including PS4 during this time period.

Before black Friday, in the Beginning of November? Because that's what I was referring to. You had 399 PS4 and Destiny for 449 there were no bundles until black friday week, and Christmas Eve.

They did not run bundles games until black Friday.

So I have no clue where your getting these DEALS from?

What you posted here is the definition of conjecture.



More conjecture.


......and more

It's not conjecture that within 9 months Xbox has had multiple price changes. Going from 499, un-bundling Kinect making it 399, then having a price reduction again for 2 months at 350. Now they are going to go back to 399 and don't have the front loaded games they had from the fall to help them through the first half of 2015.

Doesn't show confidence in your product to be swapping prices so rapidly within the first year of it's release. It doesn't do a great job in showing you the value proposition of their console when they keep changing the product and it's prices.

Sony and Nintendo have not changed anything from Release. Nintendo didn't unBundle the game pad, they just pumped out more exciting software that people wanted.

Playstation didn't remove the touch pad, speaker or light sensor from the DS4 to make the console cheaper, they just encouraged developers to use it more. Which seeing GTA 5, among others take advantage of it shows the value.

Sunset overdrive bundle sold out and it was/is moderately successful for a new IP.

Again what the hell does this have to do with the topic at hand?

That Sunset is a a exclusive for Microsoft but instead of having it at the front they made the console bundled with it limited. And heavily promoted AC:U bundle more.


Seems like your just going through a "my opinion on why Xbox is bad" checklist.

It's not hard to see Microsoft has not taken the steps necessary to make their box more inviting for new people or gamer's in general with the CHeckbook moves they've made recently this year.

It's one thing to have a sale to get people in on your console, which happens every christmas almost. But it's another thing to buy market share without proving why your box is viable option for the future.

Most of the poster's on here are in the same boat I am, I think this is a bad move Microsoft put themselves in. If they had just done 350 just for black friday with teh bundles and ended it after a week, and left bundled games in at 399, it would have shown better brand awareness.

Especially if they were able to promote the MCC , Forza and sunset being maybe limited Christmas free games with the purchase of a XBox.

Now they have a shit load of new owners playing a shitty AC game instead of MCC, Forza, and Sunset, which is what you want them to buy more than Third Party.

 

[CoG]

MS has a short term view for their system instead of long term.

They have short-term and long-term but no mid-term. Plus it's being pulled in five different directions by whoever feels like sticking their mitts in the fray that month. Windows 10 on Xbox One is just dumb. Dumb like IR blasting and HDMI passthrough. A niche will appreciate it for a gaming console it just does not make any sense. Too many cooks, too many cooks.

 

[Biker19]

PS4s were on sale, too, with free games. I guess there is no reason to buy PS4s, either. Everybody will buy Wii u's instead.

When you got a platform with not only superior multiplat titles, but also a ton of exclusive games coming out all year long as of next year (as well as guaranteed niche Japanese 3rd party titles), then yeah, PS4's a much worthy purchase than Xbox One is at this point.

 

[Conduit]

Sunset overdrive bundle sold out and it was/is moderately successful for a new IP.

I'm pretty sure that Sunset Overdrive sales tanked! Maybe even worse than FH2 sales on Xbone. Bundles sold out doesn't mean game sales are successful. And headline - SO bundles are sold out is just MS PR for showing to everyine that SO sales are strong. Btw. you can find SO bundles on Amazon.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

They have short-term and long-term but no mid-term. Plus it's being pulled in five different directions by whoever feels like sticking their mitts in the fray that month. Windows 10 on Xbox One is just dumb. Dumb like IR blasting and HDMI passthrough. A niche will appreciate it for a gaming console it just does not make any sense. Too many cooks, too many cooks.

It's Sega all over again, really. But at least MS has money on their side to weather through things. Something Sega sadly didn't

 

[Papacheeks]

They have short-term and long-term but no mid-term. Plus it's being pulled in five different directions by whoever feels like sticking their mitts in the fray that month. Windows 10 on Xbox One is just dumb. Dumb like IR blasting and HDMI passthrough. A niche will appreciate it for a gaming console it just does not make any sense. Too many cooks, too many cooks.

Oh, I agree. Didn't Games For Windows Live have communication with Xbox 360 accounts?

So it's like they are repeating their mistakes. Unless this Windows 10 stuff is like cross-buy, which would be really awesome for xbox franchises.

Actually the HDMI pass through I think is a fantastic addition, especially if you own or have a entertainment center.

It's nice to be able to walk in a room and say "Xbox on" then have all of your stuff turn on. Eliminated multiple remotes somewhat.

For people with sound systems and receivers I can see it being a good sell point.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Games like Orc's must Die Unchained, Loadout, Planet Side 2, Killing Floor 2(Indie) are exciting games worth owning the console for if you don't have a PC. They are smaller titles that can have a huge impact, and are not coming to Microsoft's console because of PARITY.

If you showed me Killing Floor 2, Loadout, Planetside 2 and told me I could buy the system for 399 and play 2 of those games without having to have PS+ that's awesome value.

Yes all games worthy of attention. But again not system sellers, especially since they can all be played on relatively weak PC's. and plenty of games have made it past the parity clause, and plenty of worthy indies are coming to Xbox. So what point were you trying to make again? Are we even talking about price drops anymore?

Because Playstation is giving you reasons to stay in their ecosystem every month, with PS+ discounts on games big or small and preorder incentives. Like paying 53.99 or 49.99 for a digital preorder. Which is what you want after you sold a console at a loss.

Holds true both ways. So again what's the point of this?

Before black Friday, in the Beginning of November? Because that's what I was referring to. You had 399 PS4 and Destiny for 449 there were no bundles until black friday week, and Christmas Eve.

They did not run bundles games until black Friday.

So I have no clue where your getting these DEALS from?

There have been deals on both all throughout the year.

It's not conjecture that within 9 months Xbox has had multiple price changes. Going from 499, un-bundling Kinect making it 399, then having a price reduction again for 2 months at 350. Now they are going to go back to 399 and don't have the front loaded games they had from the fall to help them through the first half of 2015.

Unbundling kinect is not a price change. They had limited time discounts for the holidays just as every other company did.

Doesn't show confidence in your product to be swapping prices so rapidly within the first year of it's release. It doesn't do a great job in showing you the value proposition of their console when they keep changing the product and it's prices.

Back to the opinion skewed conjecture again.

Sony and Nintendo have not changed anything from Release. Nintendo didn't unBundle the game pad, they just pumped out more exciting software that people wanted.

Not the same situation and once again are we still talking about price drops here?

Playstation didn't remove the touch pad, speaker or light sensor from the DS4 to make the console cheaper, they just encouraged developers to use it more. Which seeing GTA 5, among others take advantage of it shows the value.

Yes cause a speaker on the controller is anywhere near comparable to $150 accessory.

It's not hard to see Microsoft has not taken the steps necessary to make their box more inviting for new people or gamer's in general with the CHeckbook moves they've made recently this year.

Yup Microsoft buys success, Sony earns it. *rolls eyes*

It's one thing to have a sale to get people in on your console, which happens every christmas almost. But it's another thing to buy market share without proving why your box is viable option for the future.

The fuck are you even talking about anymore. This makes absolutely no sense.

Most of the poster's on here are in the same boat I am, I think this is a bad move Microsoft put themselves in. If they had just done 350 just for black friday with teh bundles and ended it after a week, and left bundled games in at 399, it would have shown better brand awareness.

Most of the posters in here arguing are those such as yourself who seem to have an agenda against Microsoft. Doesn't matter what move they make you will all agree that its the wrong one.

Especially if they were able to promote the MCC , Forza and sunset being maybe limited Christmas free games with the purchase of a XBox.

Now they have a shit load of new owners playing a shitty AC game instead of MCC, Forza, and Sunset, which is what you want them to buy more than Third Party.

Destiny is by far the most popular game on PS4. Shame on Sony for their lack of brand awareness

 

[SimpleCRIPPLE]

January sales will tank, they'll lose both Jan and Feb to PS4, and the price will be cut again by March at the latest.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

I'm pretty sure that Sunset Overdrive sales tanked! Maybe even worse than FH2 sales on Xbone. Bundles sold out doesn't mean game sales are successful. And headline - SO bundles are sold out is just MS PR for showing to everyine that SO sales are strong. Btw. you can find SO bundles on Amazon.

You got sales figures? Post em.

And the bundles on amazon are being sold at a price higher than reatail. Meaning their must be short supply and high demand.

 

[Conduit]

Destiny is by far the most popular game on PS4. Shame on Sony for their lack of brand awareness

He's trying to tell you that PS4 owners buying more exclusives and playing them than Xbone owners even if multiplatform title are best selling.

 

[Bgamer90]

I'm pretty sure that Sunset Overdrive sales tanked! Maybe even worse than FH2 sales on Xbone. Bundles sold out doesn't mean game sales are successful. Btw. you can find SO bundles on Amazon.

I believe Sunset Overdrive did better than Forza Horizon 2 -- Forza Horizon 2 had no bundles + it wasn't mentioned at all for NPD.

And yeah, there are Sunset Overdrive bundles on Amazon... for $150+ more than their MSRP.

____________________________

They have short-term and long-term but no mid-term. Plus it's being pulled in five different directions by whoever feels like sticking their mitts in the fray that month. Windows 10 on Xbox One is just dumb. Dumb like IR blasting and HDMI passthrough. A niche will appreciate it for a gaming console it just does not make any sense. Too many cooks, too many cooks.

Not sure what you mean by "mid-term". They are using the games that came out late 2014, Evolve, and some smaller digital games to help bridge the gap between now and the second half of 2015. I agree that it would have been good/better if they had at least one AAA retail game for the first half of 2015 but that doesn't mean they have nothing planned.

Not sure how Windows 10 on Xbox One "is dumb" if it will lead into the system getting more apps and games. If anything, I see it having more gaming purpose than HDMI passthrough and IR which you (somehow) also put into the same group (heh). Positive everything has been set up on a schedule -- highly doubt they just pass things to different people "month by month". They already have a set schedule for some of the 2015 system updates and I'm pretty sure the exclusives coming to the system next year (some that probably haven't been announced yet) have set dates too.

_______________________

It's Sega all over again, really. But at least MS has money on their side to weather through things. Something Sega sadly didn't

Is it? Last time I checked they still have solid third party support and they don't have multiple failing systems they are supporting.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

He's trying to tell you that PS4 owners buying more exclusives and playing them than Xbone owners even if multiplatform title are best selling.

But that's just not true

 

[jtb]

my guess is that Microsoft will ofset the price increase by increasing "value" by throwing an extra game or two in there as a pack-in.

 

[CoG]

Not sure what you mean by "mid-term". They are using the games that came out late 2014, Evolve, and some smaller digital games to help bridge the gap between now and the second half of 2015. I agree that it would have been good/better if they had at least one AAA retail game for the first half of 2015 but that doesn't mean they have nothing planned.

Short-term: Beat Sony in US and UK
Long-term: Conquer the living room
Medium-term: ???

Not sure how Windows 10 on Xbox One "is dumb" if it will lead into the system getting more apps and games. If anything, I see it having more gaming purpose than HDMI passthrough and IR which you (somehow) also put into the same group (heh). Positive everything has been set up on a schedule -- highly doubt they just pass things to different people "month by month". They already have a set schedule for some of the 2015 system updates and I'm pretty sure the exclusives coming to the system next year (some that probably haven't been announced yet) have set dates too.

No significant number of people want to run Windows 10 apps on their TV. It seems like a huge waste of time. The apps people actually want to run 10 feet away (Netflix, YouTube) are already on Xbox.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Is it? Last time I checked they still have solid third party support and they don't have multiple systems they are supporting.

Lol true point. I was referring to the "too many cooks" part the other poster bought up, in having so many different divisions put their hands on the thing and tugging it so many ways. To MS's credit they've seemed to have corrected a good deal of that, but the Sega parallels are still there to some extent.

At the same time though, if they really are counting on US/UK as their sole markets and seemingly conceding others, they need to dominate by quite a few millions every holiday, not just 400/500k, to really have a healthy presence in those markets and really make up for the lost sales outside those months to remain solidly competitive w/ Sony in those markets and WW. B/c it's practically guaranteed Sony more than made up for the NA sales difference this holiday w/ worldwide, probably by two/threefold.

And, a lot of Western 3rd-parties are not American; if MS can't keep reasonable pace the European devs will start folding and/or scaling back sooner than the American ones.

And also tbf, Sony was the exact same way during early PS3. Worst off, actually.

 

[Papacheeks]

Yes all games worthy of attention. But again not system sellers, especially since they can all be played on relatively weak PC's. and plenty of games have made it past the parity clause, and plenty of worthy indies are coming to Xbox. So what point were you trying to make again? Are we even talking about price drops anymore?

Holly shit dude!

I looked at your post history in other threads and Yikes.

I will just leave you with this:

Everything that I brought up has to do with value proposition, from un-bundling Kinect, price drops, smaller games, store purchases.


Putting you on my ignore list as looking at your post history in other thread's it's an endless battle with a xbox fan.

My gamertag: ACETHEOUTLAW for XBox Live would be in use if Microsoft gave me an incentive to care about their system, like they did when I bought my 360.

But unless they get some developer's on similar to naughty Dog quality, and maybe some more Japanese games like Scale bound, It's going to be a while for me.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Holly shit dude!

I looked at your post history in other threads and Yikes.

I will just leave you with this:

Everything that I brought up has to do with value proposition, from un-bundling Kinect, price drops, smaller games, store purchases.


Putting you on my ignore list as looking at your post history in other thread's it's an endless battle with a xbox fan.

My gamertag: ACETHEOUTLAW for XBox Live would be in use if Microsoft gave me an incentive to care about their system, like they did when I bought my 360.

But unless they get some developer's on similar to naughty Dog quality, and maybe some more Japanese games like Scale bound, It's going to be a while for me.

Yes it's my post history that has you talking about naughty dog in a thread about the price of Xbox one

 

[Skellig Gra]

I'm pretty sure that Sunset Overdrive sales tanked! Maybe even worse than FH2 sales on Xbone. Bundles sold out doesn't mean game sales are successful. And headline - SO bundles are sold out is just MS PR for showing to everyine that SO sales are strong. Btw. you can find SO bundles on Amazon.

Yeah you can also find Suikoden 2 on Amazon. They are all re-sellers with jacked up prices.

 

[Biker19]

Lol true point. I was referring to the "too many cooks" part the other poster bought up, in having so many different divisions put their hands on the thing and tugging it so many ways. To MS's credit they've seemed to have corrected a good deal of that, but the Sega parallels are still there to some extent.

At the same time though, if they really are counting on US/UK as their sole markets and seemingly conceding others, they need to dominate by quite a few millions every holiday, not just 400/500k, to really have a healthy presence in those markets and really make up for the lost sales outside those months to remain solidly competitive w/ Sony in those markets and WW. B/c it's practically guaranteed Sony more than made up for the NA sales difference this holiday w/ worldwide, probably by two/threefold.

And, a lot of Western 3rd-parties are not American; if MS can't keep reasonable pace the European devs will start folding and/or scaling back sooner than the American ones.

And also tbf, Sony was the exact same way during early PS3. Worst off, actually.

I agree, especially with the last two sentences that you just wrote. Some Western & Japanese 3rd party publishers are already making their games PS4 exclusive in Japan, & very soon, it's going to wind up becoming the norm from everybody.

I suspect that the same will probably happen in Europe as well, as the Xbox One isn't exactly doing spectacular over there in comparison to PS4. I give them another 6 months to a year tops before both Western & Japanese 3rd party publishers starts making their games exclusive to PS4 in that region, too. Not only to save them money by not porting the games to Xbox One for those regions, but also saving them more money from localization costs.

 

[Dragonborn]

my guess is that Microsoft will ofset the price increase by increasing "value" by throwing an extra game or two in there as a pack-in.

It still wouldn't work imo. The X1 isn't worth $399, at least to most people (going by what we've seen through this year). It'd have to have a good amount of free games included, especially since MS has next to nothing software wise until whenever Fable comes out (and that in itself will do next ot nothing as well).

 

[Conduit]

You got sales figures? Post em.

And the bundles on amazon are being sold at a price higher than reatail. Meaning their must be short supply and high demand.

Go check NPD results for October and November and also PAL week 44, 45 and 46 results. You will be surprised by a huge margin.

I believe Sunset Overdrive did better than Forza Horizon 2 -- Forza Horizon 2 had no bundles + it wasn't mentioned at all for NPD.

SO didn't enter Top 10 in NPD results for October and November. And yes, i'm pretty sure that that SO sold worse than FH2 on Xbone. You can still find FH2 in PAL charts.

 

[SpotAnime]

It's Sega all over again, really. But at least MS has money on their side to weather through things. Something Sega sadly didn't

So true. I was around for the PS vs. Saturn discussions (not on NeoGAF of course, but on the newsgroups and such) and this generation feels very similar. Sony still feels like Sony whereas Microsoft seems to be eerily similar to Sega, i.e., hardware discrepancies, first-party output and, relevant to this thread, big holiday pushes. Remember the three free games with the Saturn? Exclusives battles (NiGHTS vs Crash, VF2 vs Tekken, Sega Rally vs Ridge Racer)? It's arguable Sega won those battles (Rally vs RR is NOT debatable, however!) and would use those to market the system during the holiday months... and not much outside of that during the year.

The original Xbox was as much of an underdog, if not moreso because it was the first console from MS, but it did seem like it marched to its own drum rather than getting pulled into a fight with Sony.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I suspect that the same will probably happen in Europe as well, as the Xbox One isn't exactly doing spectacular over there in comparison to PS4. I give them another 6 months to a year tops before both Western & Japanese 3rd party publishers starts making their games exclusive to PS4 in that region, too. Not only to save them money by not porting the games to Xbox One for those regions, but also saving them more money from localization costs.

This is wishful thinking. The xbox one is still doing hella better than the original xbox and that never stopped geting european support.

The only thing that a lower xbox install base ensures is a decreasing amount of 3rd party exclusives. Its still going to get the same releases regardless.

 

[Dragonborn]

So true. I was around for the PS vs. Saturn discussions (not on NeoGAF of course, but on the newsgroups and such) and this generation feels very similar. Sony still feels like Sony whereas Microsoft seems to be eerily similar to Sega, i.e., hardware discrepancies, first-party output and, relevant to this thread, big holiday pushes. Remember the three free games with the Saturn? Exclusives battles (NiGHTS vs Crash, VF2 vs Tekken, Sega Rally vs Ridge Racer)? It's arguable Sega won those battles (Rally vs RR is NOT debatable, however!) and would use those to market the system during the holiday months... and not much outside of that during the year.

The original Xbox was as much of an underdog, if not moreso because it was the first console from MS, but it did seem like it marched to its own drum rather than getting pulled into a fight with Sony.

I think when all's said and done this gen will look like the 6th gen with

PS1 = PS4
N64 = X1
Satrun = Wii U.

 

[Papacheeks]

Yes it's my post history that has you talking about naughty dog in a thread about the price of Xbox one

No well, I'm not the only one in this thread talking about the 350 to 399 price tag is going to cause issues.

I brought up reasons why the next 10 Months will be a uphill battle for Microsoft. ANd they are reasons that are supported by facts like Parity clauses which in tern has hurt Microsoft in the amount of games available for their storefront.

I also gave examples of their third party support they relied heavily on for the AC:U bundle which will be even more expensive for them next year.

Other's in this thread have supported that Microsoft only cares about US/UK sales as their sales for November prove it.

I brought up the weak parts that should be fixed and can only be fixed by showing value proposition for their box, that they have mismanaged completely since launch of the system.

Go be a Xbox troll, I don't care, but don't say that the points I bring up dont have relevancy in a thread about xbox's price, because "VALUE" is what's being talked about.

What a person is willing to pay, and what entices them to pay for it at a certain price.

It's all relevant.

And your nonsensical XBox outlook is not. Sony had the same issue last generation, but stayed the course reduced cost's on the system and put out compelling software.

Microsoft started doing that for the first half of the generation, but then relied too heavily on third party support which they are doing now.

 

[Dragonborn]

No well, I'm not the only one in this thread talking about the 350 to 399 price tag is going to cause issues.

I brought up reasons why the next 10 Months will be a uphill battle for Microsoft. ANd they are reasons that are supported by facts like Parity clauses which in tern has hurt Microsoft in the amount of games available for their storefront.

I also gave examples of their third party support they relied heavily on for the AC:U bundle which will be even more expensive for them next year.

Other's in this thread have supported that Microsoft only cares about US/UK sales as their sales for November prove it.

I brought up the weak parts that should be fixed and can only be fixed by showing value proposition for their box, that they have mismanaged completely since launch of the system.

Go be a Xbox troll, I don't care, but don't say that the points I bring up dont have relevancy in a thread about xbox's price, because "VALUE" is what's being talked about.

What a person is willing to pay, and what entices them to pay for it at a certain price.

It's all relevant.

And your nonsensical XBox outlook is not. Sony had the same issue last generation, but stayed the course reduced cost's on the system and put out compelling software.

Microsoft started doing that for the first half of the generation, but then relied too heavily on third party support which they are doing now.

You really shouldn't compare the Ps3 to the X1. They're in entirely different situations, it's not even close.

 

[Papacheeks]

You really shouldn't compare the Ps3 to the X1. They're in entirely different situations, it's not even close.

How would you describe Microsoft's situation? Would I be close if I SAID IT HAD TO DO WITH Value Proposition for Microsoft?

 

[Bgamer90]

Lol true point. I was referring to the "too many cooks" part the other poster bought up, in having so many different divisions put their hands on the thing and tugging it so many ways. To MS's credit they've seemed to have corrected a good deal of that, but the Sega parallels are still there to some extent.

Ah okay. I mean, a lot of it is better for the present than it was back when Sega was making consoles. People do use consoles for more than gaming now but I do feel that MS should have made games the main focus at launch -- the period when mainly only hardcore gamers buy consoles.

At the same time though, if they really are counting on US/UK as their sole markets and seemingly conceding others, they need to dominate by quite a few millions every holiday, not just 400/500k, to really have a healthy presence in those markets and really make up for the lost sales outside those months to remain solidly competitive w/ Sony in those markets and WW. B/c it's practically guaranteed Sony more than made up for the NA sales difference this holiday w/ worldwide, probably by two/threefold.

I think the worldwide sales battle is a lost cause at this point. Better for them to double up on the territories that actually care about the Xbox brand. Will help for AAA third party support as well as the sales potential for future exclusives and new IPs.

And, a lot of Western 3rd-parties are not American; if MS can't keep reasonable pace the European devs will start folding and/or scaling back sooner than the American ones.

It is true that there are Western 3rd party companies that aren't American but it would be hard for them to ignore the Xbox One as long as the system is doing solidly in the territories that the brand does the best in -- they would be missing out on a decent chunk of money that could be possibly made.

And also tbf, Sony was the exact same way during early PS3. Worst off, actually.

The position was similar but since the PS3 came out a year later than the 360, the PS3 had more catching up to do -- at least in North America.
_____________________________

SO didn't enter Top 10 in NPD results for October and November. And yes, i'm pretty sure that that SO sold worse than FH2 on Xbone. You can still find FH2 in PAL charts.

It was stated that Sunset Overdrive was the ninth-highest selling game when sorting on SKU rather than by title. Add that in with bundles and the fact that the racing genre is going down in popularity, and I'm sure the game did better than Forza Horizon 2.

 

[Mononoke]

I think a temporary sale, makes sense. Like 1-2 weeks. Maybe even 3 weeks. But once you pass that threshold and it becomes like a 2 month price cut. I do think that starts to enter the mind-share of people, and it starts to make people expect something at that value. It's hard to go from less to more.

So I'm with those saying this feels like a mistake by MS. But I also think people should keep in mind, the X1 wasn't like not selling. It was still doing better than the 360 at the same point in time (unless I'm wrong. But I thought the X1 was actually outpacing the 360 in sales at the same time).

Well regardless, I do think most consumers are going to view the X1 was a $350 system. Especially since it's known the PS4 is a more powerful system with generally better performance. And PS4 has entered the mindshare that it's more of a "gamers" system. Whether that's true or not, it's the perception of a lot of people. And I think given MS's major missteps early on, the mainstream consumer actually got wind of the idea that X1 was a weaker system (which normally, I would say, wouldn't be an issue).

So I think X1 being viewed as not as good as a bargain as the PS4, that was always something that hung over their head even at the $399 price. I think them going to $349 for 2 months straight, kind of solidifies that view point for some folks. I guess we just have to wait and see. We need to see what the sales figures are. And if it's really bad, then obviously MS will have to react. If not, and their sales go back to what they were prior to the price cut *shrugs*. Then things just go back to normal. No harm no foul.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

Most of the posters in here arguing are those such as yourself who seem to have an agenda against Microsoft. Doesn't matter what move they make you will all agree that its the wrong one.

Just a friendly word of warning, as I see you are still fairly new around here, Meach-

The whole persecution complex/fan generalization thing normally doesn't fly around these parts. Might want to be careful with that & just stick to your points.

 

[Dragonborn]

How would you describe Microsoft's situation? Would I be close if I SAID IT HAD TO DO WITH Value Proposition for Microsoft?

Yea, I'd say that seems to be the biggest issue. People don't see it in the same light as a PS4, and the constant fire sales have no doubt weakened MS' ability to sell it at $399.

The reason it's not comparable to the PS3 is that that, while the PS3 got dominated in NA, Sony was still able to do really well with the rest of the world propping it up. In fact, even though it came out 18 months + after the 360 in Europe, it still easily caught up and surpassed it.

This gen, Sony is dominating everywhere. MS has nothing to prop them up. If they loose NA, that's it for them (not in the sense that they're out but that they're going to loose out big time). That's why they've gone all out to make sure that, at least for the Holiday season, they weren't completely outclassed. We can imagine that, had they not been as aggressive as they were, the PS4 would have completely smoked the X1 which would not have been good.

I guess they're satisfied with a massive sales for two months and then loosing for 10 months if it means keeping the gap somewhat controlled (as in, below a million).

As for Sony, NA isn't nearly as important. Pulling numbers out of the air here because I don't remember but for the PS3 NA accounted for 35-40% of overall sales, whereas for the 360 is was 60%ish.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Go check NPD results for October and November and also PAL week 44, 45 and 46 results. You will be surprised by a huge margin.




SO didn't enter Top 10 in NPD results for October and November. And yes, i'm pretty sure that that SO sold worse than FH2 on Xbone.

It did make top ten on the indivudual charts for NPD. Number 1 in the UK.

Fact is we don't know the full numbers but according to statements from Phil spencer, insomniac, and the fact that the bundle sold out, I'd say the game is at least moderately succesful.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Just a friendly word of warning, as I see you are still fairly new around here, Meach-

The whole persecution complex/fan generalization thing normally doesn't fly around these parts. Might want to be careful with that & just stick to your points.

Thanks. Will heed your advice. Was in response to accusations being thrown my way. I will refrain from stooping to that level in the future.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I think when all's said and done this gen will look like the 6th gen with

PS1 = PS4
N64 = X1
Satrun = Wii U.

Yep this is how I see it playing out, too. Which is pretty weird to admit, b/c it proves the market is contracting, at least the traditional market. I always thought that was going to happen, too. Hell, I kind of wanted it to happen.

To see it actually go down that way, tho,...can never be ready for that.

It is true that there are Western 3rd party companies that aren't American but it would be hard for them to ignore the Xbox One as long as the system is doing solidly in the territories that the brand does the best in -- they would be missing out on a decent chunk of money that could be possibly made.

Well. like Biker19 was saying, this is a problem in Europe b/c outside of UK the XBO isn't doing very well there at all. I'm not expecting one of the "Big Ones" like Ubisoft to scale down or pull support. But smaller developers with smaller publishers might. It's something already happening in Japan but shit's weak all over there when it comes to consoles.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

No well, I'm not the only one in this thread talking about the 350 to 399 price tag is going to cause issues.

I brought up reasons why the next 10 Months will be a uphill battle for Microsoft. ANd they are reasons that are supported by facts like Parity clauses which in tern has hurt Microsoft in the amount of games available for their storefront.

I also gave examples of their third party support they relied heavily on for the AC:U bundle which will be even more expensive for them next year.

Other's in this thread have supported that Microsoft only cares about US/UK sales as their sales for November prove it.

I brought up the weak parts that should be fixed and can only be fixed by showing value proposition for their box, that they have mismanaged completely since launch of the system.

Go be a Xbox troll, I don't care, but don't say that the points I bring up dont have relevancy in a thread about xbox's price, because "VALUE" is what's being talked about.

What a person is willing to pay, and what entices them to pay for it at a certain price.

It's all relevant.

And your nonsensical XBox outlook is not. Sony had the same issue last generation, but stayed the course reduced cost's on the system and put out compelling software.

Microsoft started doing that for the first half of the generation, but then relied too heavily on third party support which they are doing now.

As I said in my first reply to you.

Lotta skewed opinions here, there's no point in arguing them. But anyone claiming to know exactly what will happen is only projecting what they WANT to happen.


You are entitled to your opinion. I don't want to argue that. But you can't offer your opinion as irrefutable fact, then go checking post history's and hurling baseless accusations if others have a different opinion.

 

[Papacheeks]

Yea, I'd say that seems to be the biggest issue. People don't see it in the same light as a PS4, and the constant fire sales have no doubt weakened MS' ability to sell it at $399.

The reason it's not comparable to the PS3 is that that, while the PS3 got dominated in NA, Sony was still able to do really well with the rest of the world propping it up. In fact, even though it came out 18 months + after the 360 in Europe, it still easily caught up and surpassed it.

This gen, Sony is dominating everywhere. MS has nothing to prop them up. If they loose NA, that's it for them (not in the sense that they're out but that they're going to loose out big time). That's why they've gone all out to make sure that, at least for the Holiday season, they weren't completely outclassed. We can imagine that, had they not been as aggressive as they were, the PS4 would have completely smoked the X1 which would not have been good.

I guess they're satisfied with a massive sales for two months and then loosing for 10 months if it means keeping the gap somewhat controlled (as in, below a million).

As for Sony, NA isn't nearly as important. Pulling numbers out of the air here because I don't remember but for the PS3 NA accounted for 35-40% of overall sales, whereas for the 360 is was 60%ish.

The issue I see for Microsoft is next year is going to be tough more so than this year, more exclusives coming out from Sony, and one of them being Uncharted if it keep it's release date.

And building up to that, they have what little over million if that lead for UK/US right? It won't take Sony long to surpass that before christmas. Especially with titles coming out within the first couple months of 2015.

I don't think this strategy is sustainable and somewhere along the lines someone at MS will look at Profit margin and raise a red flag.

 

[Forsaken82]

Holly shit dude!

I looked at your post history in other threads and Yikes.

I will just leave you with this:

Everything that I brought up has to do with value proposition, from un-bundling Kinect, price drops, smaller games, store purchases.


Putting you on my ignore list as looking at your post history in other thread's it's an endless battle with a xbox fan.

My gamertag: ACETHEOUTLAW for XBox Live would be in use if Microsoft gave me an incentive to care about their system, like they did when I bought my 360.

But unless they get some developer's on similar to naughty Dog quality, and maybe some more Japanese games like Scale bound, It's going to be a while for me.

So... You bought the PS4 for an Upport of a last gen game and a game that is still at least 6 months out? Or does sony ONLY have Naughty Dog caliber studios working on the PS4?

 

[RBK]

As I said in my first reply to you.

Lotta skewed opinions here, there's no point in arguing them. But anyone claiming to know exactly what will happen is only projecting what they WANT to happen.


You are entitled to your opinion. I don't want to argue that. But you can't offer your opinion as irrefutable fact, then go checking post history's and hurling baseless accusations if others have a different opinion.

 

[Conduit]

It did make top ten on the indivudual charts for NPD. Number 1 in the UK.

Only 1 week at No.1 in UK and that's it. Sales drop off a cliff rapidly. And i'm pretty sure that sales for NPD was not so high - around 200k. Sunset Overdrive was No. 9 on the Top 10 if you count game by SKU.

 

[Papacheeks]

As I said in my first reply to you.

Lotta skewed opinions here, there's no point in arguing them. But anyone claiming to know exactly what will happen is only projecting what they WANT to happen.


You are entitled to your opinion. I don't want to argue that. But you can't offer your opinion as irrefutable fact, then go checking post history's and hurling baseless accusations if others have a different opinion.

How is having a parity clause that has been talked to death by Developers on NEOGAF not proof about less games available on Xbox?

How is knowing that even at 399 Microsoft doesn't make a profit on the system not fact, or making accusation?

How is knowing from tweets and articles that Microsoft is focused on US/UK not fact and accusation?

How is knowing how many Studios Sony has vs. Microsoft not fact in what they are ablt to output for games?

HOW IS looking at NPD and digital sales seeing how much more games are sold digitally not facts and accusations?

These things paint a picture one I see you seem keen on ignoring, Dragonborne chimed in and even lamented my sentiment on how Microsoft's fire sale has damaged the perception of what their console is worth.

My points are backed up by actual things in play right now. Like parity, digital sales, amount of studios, Hardware sales.

Your post history showed me that I can show you facts till I'm blue in the face, but you won't acknowledge them.

People are bring up actual sales figures for Sunset and how it was a limited bundle and your saying it sold a shit ton when in fact It didn't chart well.

I am done, back to the ignore list you go.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Only 1 week at No.1 in UK and that's it. Sales drop off a cliff rapidly. And i'm pretty sure that sales for NPD was not so high - around 200k. Sunset Overdrive was No. 9 on the Top 10 if you count game by SKU.

Sales drop of for all games. My only point was that the game was succesful.

 

[Dragonborn]

The issue I see for Microsoft is next year is going to be tough more so than this year, more exclusives coming out from Sony, and one of them being Uncharted if it keep it's release date.

And building up to that, they have what little over million if that lead for UK/US right? It won't take Sony long to surpass that before christmas. Especially with titles coming out within the first couple months of 2015.

I don't think this strategy is sustainable and somewhere along the lines someone at MS will look at Profit margin and raise a red flag.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the little over million lead in UK/US. I believe that MS was able to signficantly close that gap these past two months so it should definitely be lower than 1 million by now.

And I agree, it's going to be hella tough, especially with no TF to push them up this year (or rather, keep them from collapsing).

 

[Papacheeks]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the little over million lead in UK/US. I believe that MS was able to signficantly close that gap these past two months so it should definitely be lower than 1 million by now.

I must be confused on numbers then from NPD thread, thought they did like 1.2 Million US/UK combined and Sony did like 800,000?

 

[Dragonborn]

I must be confused on numbers then from NPD thread, thought they did like 1.2 Million US/UK combined and Sony did like 800,000?

Yea, MS did incredibly well in Nov. which helped close the gap significantly. Again, this aren't the exact numbers, but the gap before Nov. in NA was about 1 million. They were able to decrease that by 400k, and likely further decreased it this month.