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[Mononoke]

As I said in my first reply to you.

Lotta skewed opinions here, there's no point in arguing them. But anyone claiming to know exactly what will happen is only projecting what they WANT to happen.


You are entitled to your opinion. I don't want to argue that. But you can't offer your opinion as irrefutable fact, then go checking post history's and hurling baseless accusations if others have a different opinion.

Well, all you can do is speculate. I agree no one should be saying it will 100% happen. But I see no problem with people speculating and explaining why they think it will happen. Of course, time will settle this. We will know fairly quickly if the numbers are lower. Or if MS has to do something.

I also don't see a problem with people saying they think MS did a bad thing by doing this (even if it doesn't impacting sales the way some think).

 

[MeachTheMonster]

How is having a parity clause that has been talked to death by Developers on NEOGAF not proof about less games available on Xbox?

It's proof there are less games. It's your opinion as for what this means in relation to the price/sales of X1.

How is knowing that even at 399 Microsoft doesn't make a profit on the system not fact, or making accusation?

First there's no way to know this factually, second it has nothing to do with VALUE as you claimed is what you were talking about.

How is knowing from tweets and articles that Microsoft is focused on US/UK not fact and accusation?

You never said they were focused on the US and UK. You claimed they didn't care and conceded other territories. Two very different points. The one you presented first is your opinion.

How is knowing how many Studios Sony has vs. Microsoft not fact in what they are ablt to output for games?

Again a point you never made before. You only offered your opinion that Microsoft needs a naughty dog like developer. Whatever that means.

HOW IS looking at NPD and digital sales seeing how much more games are sold digitally not facts and accusations?

Again your opinion is on what this means in relation to Xbox sales. And again this isn't a point you made.

These things paint a picture one I see you seem keen on ignoring, Dragonborne chimed in and even lamented my sentiment on how Microsoft's fire sale has damaged the perception of what their console is worth.

Yes some people share opinions. But that's doesnt make them no longer opinions.

It's clear from your posts that your perception of Microsoft is already pretty bad.

My points are backed up by actual things in play right now. Like parity, digital sales, amount of studios, Hardware sales.Your post history showed me that I can show you facts till I'm blue in the face, but you won't acknowledge them.

As I said above its your opinion on what the facts mean that I will not acknowledge.

People are bring up actual sales figures for Sunset and how it was a limited bundle and your saying it sold a shit ton when in fact It didn't chart.

am done, back to the ignore list you go.

Never said a "shit ton" were sold. And no actual sales figures were posted. Only conjecture.

You are a very dishonest and condescending poster. I'd love to be on your ignore list, but you're probably lying about that as well

 

[Papacheeks]

So... You bought the PS4 for an Upport of a last gen game and a game that is still at least 6 months out? Or does sony ONLY have Naughty Dog caliber studios working on the PS4?

No I bought a PS4 because I love the Yakuza series for one. I love anything naughty dog Insomniac, Sucker punch make. I also bought a ps4 knowing WW studios are pumping out games. And I usually will buy anything Level 5 makes.

Plus knowing that most Third party games will run mostly at 1080p makes it easier for me to gamefly them without having to buy them on steam. I'v had bad experiences buying a third party game for PC, there are couple exceptions.

Plus I don't like being stuck with a game I KNOW I'll never play again.

I go through games like crazy. SO for me if I want something that will give me PC medium quality multiplats I went PS4.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Well, all you can do is speculate. I agree no one should be saying it will 100% happen. But I see no problem with people speculating and explaining why they think it will happen. Of course, time will settle this. We will know fairly quickly if the numbers are lower. Or if MS has to do something.

I also don't see a problem with people saying they think MS did a bad thing by doing this (even if it doesn't impacting sales the way some think).

I have no problem with the opinions. That's what we are here for. You just can't turn around and tell me your opinions are facts and that my opinion is nonsensical.

 

[GnawtyDog]

I find the exclusives argument multi-sided. Many solid opinions on the subject.

In one hand you have a great number of exclusives on Sony's PS4 platform. Objectively and on paper that should sway buyers in droves, specially in the U.S where information is so readily available. If you go to listwars.com the gap is already 50+ games big......and it will only get bigger. Probably looking at a 120+ gap by the end of next year easily.

So why is this value proposition from Sony not being exploited to the maximum? Marketing. And USA LOVES marketing - the media too.

So on the other hand, there is hardly any marketing coverage for many PS console exclusives and the media (what we consider "big gaming outlets") also hardly cover them (a shame I might add - not because of Sony - but because going content dry for days just cause you don't have a story about a big game to publish is pathetically sad).

It's no surprise as to how MS has managed to sail through the storm and still sell well in the U.S. If you look at 2014 - it's a complete failure from an execution stand-point YET MS pulled through.... (All the 180s, price drops etc, it usually ONLY hurts a brand's perceived value - not enhance it - as long as there's a competing product that offers those things (PS4)).

While a minority on forums does appreciate the great number of exclusives coming to PS4, and at times it's practically impossible for the media and obtuse gamers to ignore, the effect on sales is not as proportionate as you would think. Diminishing returns and all that but Sony does have a problem on their hands getting the word out about the many games that come to their platform. Not an easy problem, but a very important one that a market leader should try to address - at least more effectively than what it does today. Mind you money is obviously an issue, and so is manpower.... Sony has done a solid job getting the games and creating the environment and team to get the games on the platform. Now it needs another team to market them effectively and make that value proposition actually worth a penny and a differentiator.

Until Sony rectifies that, MS will sail along well with their current strategies...and execute when needed unscathed (aka the holiday back-loaded strategy).

 

[Conduit]

Sales drop of for all games. My only point was that the game was succesful.

Sorry, but NOT for all games. But YES, according to all charts from November and beyond, SO sales are low and that's my point. Which is correct, well, charts telling ya.

 

[Papacheeks]

I have no problem with the opinions. That's what were are here for. You just can't turn around and tell me your opinions are facts and that my opinion is nonsensical.

Never said that they were. But I brought up things that are supported by facts. So the amount of games in 2 threads here on Neogaf doesn't show you the disparity between the 2 systems doe indie games cause by MS's PArity clause?

Along with the amount of internally owned studios. Those are facts bud.

If you want to talk about this more I SUGGEST WE pm as I'v already derailed this thread and feel bad about it.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Sorry, but NOT for all games. But YES, according to all charts from November and beyond, SO sales are low and that's my point. Which is correct, well, charts telling ya.

Its no secret that game sales are front loaded. That's not even debatable.

 

[Servbot24]

As I said in my first reply to you.

Lotta skewed opinions here, there's no point in arguing them. But anyone claiming to know exactly what will happen is only projecting what they WANT to happen.


You are entitled to your opinion. I don't want to argue that. But you can't offer your opinion as irrefutable fact, then go checking post history's and hurling baseless accusations if others have a different opinion.

No one but the most extremist of fanboys wants XB1 to fail.

The fact is that increasing price without increasing value is not an appealing proposition from consumers. That's very basic common sense.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Never said that they were. But I brought up things that are supported by facts. So the amount of games in 2 threads here on Neogaf doesn't show you the disparity between the 2 systems doe indie games cause by MS's PArity clause?

Here's more facts to consider. A lot of the indies on PS4 are available on last gen consoles and/or PC. It's also a fact that indie games aren't as popular as AAA on consoles. Xbox has plenty of indies and will have more coming. Therefore there's room for differing opinions on how the indie situation will effect sales of the consoles.

Along with the amount of internally owned studios. Those are facts bud.

The amount of studios is fact. The amount of quality games that will come out of them is opinion and conjecture.

[QuoteIf you want to talk about this more I SUGGEST WE pm as I'v already derailed this thread and feel bad about it.[/QUOTE]
No need for PM. I'm good with agreeing to disagree and moving on.

 

[PseudoKirby]

Just got mine, just in time.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Just got mine, just in time.

Why did they damage that box? SMH.

 

[Papacheeks]

No one but the most extremist of fanboys wants XB1 to fail.

The fact is that increasing price without increasing value is not an appealing proposition from consumers. That's very basic common sense.

Yea, I don't want xbox to fail I just want it to be what it use to be, well for me anyway.

I want games like lost odyssey, Otagi, Gun Valkryie, Panzor Dragoon, Alane Wake. I want them to go all out bring back OG xbox, and the first couple awesome years of the 360 I had back.

I loved the second dashboard update, hated metro, and spent so much time playing Gears of war horde mode in Gears 2 and 3.

I really did love my xbox, it's just now there isn't anything about the interface, and future game lineup outside of scalebound that really speaks to me like the lineup the other 2 systems had.

 

[PseudoKirby]

Why did they damage that box? SMH.

hard enough to find one of these as is.

Yea, I don't want xbox to fail I just want it to be what it use to be, well for me anyway.

I want games like lost odyssey, Otagi, Gun Valkryie, Panzor Dragoon, Alane Wake. I want them to go all out bring back OG xbox, and the first couple awesome years of the 360 I had back.

I loved the second dashboard update, hated metro, and spent so much time playing Gears of war horde mode in Gears 2 and 3.

I really did love my xbox, it's just now there isn't anything about the interface, and future game lineup outside of scalebound that really speaks to me like the lineup the other 2 systems had.

I share same sentiments. but I still bought the system, because everything can change really quick. specially with Phil Spencer at the head of MS.


at the very least there are some fun games to play for now and pray they get an update to that UI soon

 

[slavesnyder]

How is it a surprise when they have been saying the whole time that this is a temporary Price cut? Heck they even told us the price was going back up in January when they first announced the price cut.

I know what they said. anyway, I did not believe that they would dare to do so.
When sales went up, it was proof enough that they found a good price point. so I was absolutely sure that they would stick to it, even if it costs them profit.

 

[GnawtyDog]

hard enough to find one of these as is.

Yeah just sad cause this one is not a sleeve but an actual print on the cardboard. I hate that

 

[muzzymate]

No doubt the $349 price point will be made permanent at E3.

 

[Daviii]

the idea that Xbox was not selling well is just not true

In the US

Here in Spain, or the rest of Europe for the matter, is a complete debacle. You cannot even find it in big supermakets where only PS3/4 and Wii(U) are on sale.

Even in UK, they had a lead of 40% over PS3 and now they lose 40% against PS4

Xbox 360 sold much better in comparison.

 

[Papacheeks]

In the US

Here in Spain, or the rest of Europe for the matter, is a complete debacle. You cannot even find it in big supermakets where only PS3/4 and Wii(U) are on sale.

Even in UK, they had a lead of 40% over PS3 and now they lose 40% against PS4

Xbox 360 sold much better in comparison.

Wasn't one of the biggest issues this time around compared to 360 the localization?

 

[MeachTheMonster]

In the US

Here in Spain, or the rest of Europe for the matter, is a complete debacle. You cannot even find it in big supermakets where only PS3/4 and Wii(U) are on sale.

Even in UK, they had a lead of 40% over PS3 and now they lose 40% against PS4

Xbox 360 sold much better in comparison.

Yes I was refering to U.S.

Xbox has never been strong in Europe. Most of the features and advances for X1 are geared torward the American market

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I find the exclusives argument multi-sided. Many solid opinions on the subject.

In one hand you have a great number of exclusives on Sony's PS4 platform. Objectively and on paper that should sway buyers in droves, specially in the U.S where information is so readily available. If you go to listwars.com the gap is already 50+ games big......and it will only get bigger. Probably looking at a 120+ gap by the end of next year easily.

So why is this value proposition from Sony not being exploited to the maximum? Marketing. And USA LOVES marketing - the media too.

So on the other hand, there is hardly any marketing coverage for many PS console exclusives and the media (what we consider "big gaming outlets") also hardly cover them (a shame I might add - not because of Sony - but because going content dry for days just cause you don't have a story about a big game to publish is pathetically sad).

It's no surprise as to how MS has managed to sail through the storm and still sell well in the U.S. If you look at 2014 - it's a complete failure from an execution stand-point YET MS pulled through.... (All the 180s, price drops etc, it usually ONLY hurts a brand's perceived value - not enhance it - as long as there's a competing product that offers those things (PS4)).

While a minority on forums does appreciate the great number of exclusives coming to PS4, and at times it's practically impossible for the media and obtuse gamers to ignore, the effect on sales is not as proportionate as you would think. Diminishing returns and all that but Sony does have a problem on their hands getting the word out about the many games that come to their platform. Not an easy problem, but a very important one that a market leader should try to address - at least more effectively than what it does today. Mind you money is obviously an issue, and so is manpower.... Sony has done a solid job getting the games and creating the environment and team to get the games on the platform. Now it needs another team to market them effectively and make that value proposition actually worth a penny and a differentiator.

Until Sony rectifies that, MS will sail along well with their current strategies...and execute when needed unscathed (aka the holiday back-loaded strategy).

You just summed up why I almost universally ignore gaming media. IGN, Polygon, Eurogamer...this is what they do and I don't agree with it. I usually turn to smaller sites every now and then, or forums such as GAF itself, for my gaming news. At least things aren't nearly as biased in those cases.

I also agree that Sony needs to better message their strengths; they seem remarkably shy about boasting the breadth of their library. The PSX event for example; they should find a way to message/broadcast that to more than just a few streams. They even drop the bomb with major releases at times too (Driveclub...barely saw any advertisements for that).

 

[CoG]

No doubt the $349 price point will be made permanent at E3.

Expect Sony to follow suit. MS has been playing their hand cards up. As broke as people think Sony are there's no reason they can't drop the price $50 after 1.5 years. Remember all the folks who though a $399 PS4 was an impossibility before E3 2013?

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Seems reasonable. I mean I'm sure they expect sales to fall off a cliff any minute now regardless of price. So probably figure that the "few" they sell they might aswell get an extra 50 snots for.

Or it could be bollocks!

 

[Conduit]

I have no problem with the opinions. That's what we are here for. You just can't turn around and tell me your opinions are facts and that my opinion is nonsensical.

Well, some opinions can be wrong by a huge margin. Just sayin.

 

[jfoul]

Well, this is a pretty good deal. This deal might be new thread worthy.

Xbox One Console Assassin's Creed: Unity Bundle $349.99

• FREE GIFT: Xbox One Wireless Controller
• FREE GIFT: Xbox LIVE 12 Month Gold Membership Card

Bonus: $25 off $200 purchase with AMEX at Newegg.

 

[motorised mallard]

Expect Sony to follow suit. MS has been playing their hand cards up. As broke as people think Sony are there's no reason they can't drop the price $50 after 1.5 years. Remember all the folks who though a $399 PS4 was an impossibility before E3 2013?

It's not that they "can't", they don't need to. Actually I wouldn't be all that suprised if they kept the price cut as a PSX announcement. They are going to "milk" the current price until they can't anymore, MS going all out crazy train for black friday/christmas isn't a reason to stop doing it.

 

[Biker19]

You are a very dishonest and condescending poster. I'd love to be on your ignore list, but you're probably lying about that as well

Dude, you need to chill out & stop it with this shit. Did you forget what TheJollyCorner told you earlier?

Everyone has their own opinions about what Microsoft's currently doing. Plus it's very well known that Sunset OverDrive sold very poorly.

 

[freefornow]

Plus it's very well known that Sunset OverDrive sold very poorly.

There's probably a gif about "show me the receipts", but yeah, I would like hard numbers if you have them. Just to support your statement.

 

[Poodle Cannon]

Yawn, blah blah blah xbox one is doomed, gg. Glad I got a second one w/ kinect for xbox fitness in our living room. Mostly because I need to lose weight, but getting it cheaper with black flag and ACU was a bonus.

 

[user_nat]

Are we really that surprised that the same price thing they've been doing with the 360 (temp sales) for years is happening again.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Dude, you need to chill out & stop it with this shit. Did you forget what TheJollyCorner told you earlier?

Everyone has their own opinions about what Microsoft's currently doing. Plus it's very well known that Sunset OverDrive sold very poorly.

I need to stop but I've been called an Xbox troll and told my opinion was nonsensical.

Maybe your post is aimed the wrong way. And no everybody doesn't know Sunset Overdrive sold poorly.

 

[PanicFreak]

January 2015: price goes back to $400.
E3 2015: price cut announced, the Xbox One is $350 now.

This. Maybe a redesign but I think that may be E3 2016

 

[Pathfinder]

Plus it's very well known that Sunset OverDrive sold very poorly.

There's probably a gif about "show me the receipts", but yeah, I would like hard numbers if you have them. Just to support your statement.

There aren't any.

The "Sunset Overdrive sold poorly" narrative is something lots of people adopt, stick to like glue, and repeat ad nauseam, yet no one can actually produce any proof of it, or back it up with any financial or PR statements. The only "proof" that exists is the fact it didn't chart the Top 10 NPD for the month it was released. That's it.

In the end, it all sounds like salty wishful thinking to me.

 

[Neuromancer]

Are we really that surprised that the same price thing they've been doing with the 360 (temp sales) for years is happening again.

There are some pretty big differences between the two situations.

 

[Conduit]

There aren't any.

The "Sunset Overdrive sold poorly" narrative is something lots of people adopt, stick to like glue, and repeat ad nauseam, yet no one can actually produce any proof of it, or back it up with any financial or PR statements. The only "proof" that exists is the fact it didn't chart the Top 10 NPD for the month it was released. That's it.

In the end, it all sounds like salty wishful thinking to me.

It is not wishful thinking. October results is around 110k. With bundles 150-200k. In Nov. NPD results IIRC, creamsugar didn't mentioned SO sales at all.

 

[le.phat]

Yawn, blah blah blah xbox one is doomed, gg. Glad I got a second one w/ kinect for xbox fitness in our living room. Mostly because I need to lose weight, but getting it cheaper with black flag and ACU was a bonus.

You bought a second console so you can lose weight? Fitness games on consoles? How about a bike lol.

 

[Defect]

You bought a second console so you can lose weight? Fitness games on consoles? How about a bike lol.

Bikes don't have achievements.

 

[dano1]

If it goes back up to $399 with no free games. It's game over!

 

[Blackstarhat]

Just got mine, just in time.

Were did you find this i couldnt find one and had to settle with the ass creed bundle.

 

[HowZatOZ]

Was heading to Atlanta in early January so figured I'd just grab a bundle over there, but turns out it would be far more expensive thanks to the crappy Australian dollar. Was able to grab the last Assassin's Creed bundle at Big W in all of Brisbane so happy about that. $388 price tag but got it down to $368 with girlfriend's 5% discount.

While I own a PS4 already and quite like the console, I have a feeling most of my play time will be on the Xbox One thanks to my brother and my sister's boyfriend owning the console.

 

[Pathfinder]

It is not wishful thinking. October results is around 110k. With bundles 150-200k. In Nov. NPD results IIRC, creamsugar didn't mentioned SO sales at all.

Honestly, that doesn't sound like it did all that horribly for the first title of a new IP which was only released on one console on the first year of a new console generation.

We'll likely get a sequel out of that.

Not only that, NPD doesn't track digital sales. So what you're quoting is only what was tracked physically in the US. Until we get some official numbers, those that swear the game sold very poorly are doing a fair amount of hoping at the same time.

 

[kitch9]

There aren't any.

The "Sunset Overdrive sold poorly" narrative is something lots of people adopt, stick to like glue, and repeat ad nauseam, yet no one can actually produce any proof of it, or back it up with any financial or PR statements. The only "proof" that exists is the fact it didn't chart the Top 10 NPD for the month it was released. That's it.

In the end, it all sounds like salty wishful thinking to me.

What other games that didn't chart were classed to have sold very well?

 

[kitch9]

What's GDDR5 prices like compared to a year ago does anyone know?

 

[Pathfinder]

What other games that didn't chart were classed to have sold very well?

We'd probably be drifting too far off topic to get into that here. Feel free to PM, or could even open a new topic for the discussion.

 

[Miles X]

It is not wishful thinking. October results is around 110k. With bundles 150-200k. In Nov. NPD results IIRC, creamsugar didn't mentioned SO sales at all.

So it could easily be around 350k end of the year in the US?

150k Oct
100k Nov~
100k Dec~

Not that terrible.

 

[neotokyo360]

In my country.
XBO price $500 no discount.

 

[iceatcs]

Oh wow, they actually go back to the price, but there is no point to carry with 2 counties on price cut and others won't cut. I thought they will cut the price on others at the end.

Look like it will be really bad 2015 for Xbox. No big titles on early 2015 and back to original price at the beginning of the year.

 

[Majanew]

Oh wow, they actually go back to the price, but there is no point to carry with 2 counties on price cut and others won't cut. I thought they will cut the price on others at the end.

Look like it will be really bad 2015 for Xbox. No big titles on early 2015 and back to original price at the beginning of the year.

MS said it was a limited time price cut just for the holidays. I'm not sure why people are surprised.

 

[Welfare]

Oh wow, they actually go back to the price, but there is no point to carry with 2 counties on price cut and others won't cut. I thought they will cut the price on others at the end.

Look like it will be really bad 2015 for Xbox. No big titles on early 2015 and back to original price at the beginning of the year.

We'll know if it is really bad depending on shipment data next quarter.

 

[Xando]

Yes I was refering to U.S.

Xbox has never been strong in Europe. Most of the features and advances for X1 are geared torward the American market

Xbox gained a lot of mindshare in Europe last gen and could have experienced a lot of growth with the X1 (remember MS wanting to get 40% marketshare in germany? 360 had 25%) but they've diminished everything with their US focus.