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[Ty4on]

Back to Zoe though - she is strong. Many would have run or worse. Not that ANYONE ever deserves a fraction of what she has had to endure, but if the net result after all of this ends is a net positive and good changes come about in this industry and others, than she was the right person for the "job" that nobody in their right mind would ever ask for.

Yes and no I guess.
I agree she is really strong for enduring this, but (and I know you didn't mean it) it feels like putting that way that makes her trauma less important and again pushes her up to a status no one can live up to.

I remember it being quite humanising to hear Brianna, quite early in this when she had just gotten attacked and fought back, say after she had talked at length about it: "I'm gonna need so much therapy after all of this this" [paraphrasing].
I'm pretty sure it's in Isometric 24.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Part of me has internalized the Zoe situation as "she had sex with the wrong person at the wrong time" and that she was just severely unlucky to have spawned a hate movement and all of the ridiculous subsequent harassment. But as this drags on and on, I realized something scary: if it wasn't Zoe, it would have been somebody else. It would have been another woman in the industry, no doubt, but regardless, this was going to happen no matter who the impetus was.

The combination of traditional and social media, the generally unmoderated discussion on the internet, and the increasing divide between liberalism and conservatism have created an environment where GG and other "virtual" hate groups can incubate and fester, drawing in members under both understood and false pretenses.

Back to Zoe though - she is strong. Many would have run or worse. Not that ANYONE ever deserves a fraction of what she has had to endure, but if the net result after all of this ends is a net positive and good changes come about in this industry and others, than she was the right person for the "job" that nobody in their right mind would ever ask for.

This is a good post - but you're missing one important (and sad) fact - she never "had sex with the wrong person".

Her psycho ex made a bunch of wild lies & accusations and the internet hate mob that was already going at Anita Sarkeesian turned on Zoe as well (without verifying anything Eron Gjoni said about ZQ).

Gamergate is literally and fundamentally a hate group founded on a giant lie. They have no reason to exist other than to feed off and create hatred.

 

[gabbo]

It was an interesting and saddening post as an outlook on the industry, but I never kept up with the whole GG hoopla to a great degree, so I often feel lost in these topics, outside of the big things she mentions getting attention (eg Anita Sarkeesian)
Is there a neutral timeline of it all somewhere?

 

[PtM]

almost everyone who complained about gamergate tried to paint us gamers as if we are all the same

There is no "us gamers".

Part of me has internalized the Zoe situation as "she had sex with the wrong person at the wrong time"

Shut the fuck up. Ugh, that is the worst way to put it. She's neither to blame for anything that's happend, nor is it purely happenstance.
Also, she already got a lot of hate before crazy ex.

This is a good post - but you're missing one important (and sad) fact - she never "had sex with the wrong person".

Except for Eron Gjoni, heh.

 

[Lalalandia]

This is a good post - but you're missing one important (and sad) fact - she never "had sex with the wrong person"

I had the same reaction at first but I think from the rest of the post creathchee's 'wrong person' was Eron Gjoni not any of the people she is alleged to have slept with.

It was an interesting and saddening post as an outlook on the industry, but I never kept up with the whole GG hoopla to a great degree, so I often feel lost in these topics, outside of the big things she mentions getting attention (eg Anita Sarkeesian)
Is there a neutral timeline of it all somewhere?

From the prior threads here's an overview of everything GG related, there is a nice timeline in there and a lot more if you want to dig further

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135783202&postcount=5

 

[BGMNTS]

Thankfully this doesn't make me ashamed to play video games. It'll take more than a few retards with internet access to do that.

 

[creatchee]

Yes and no I guess.
I agree she is really strong for enduring this, but (and I know you didn't mean it) it feels like putting that way that makes her trauma less important and again pushes her up to a status no one can live up to.

I remember it being quite humanising to hear Brianna, quite early in this when she had just gotten attacked and fought back, say after she had talked at length about it: "I'm gonna need so much therapy after all of this this" [paraphrasing].
I'm pretty sure it's in Isometric 24.

Yeah, I definitely didn't want to downplay her suffering whatsoever. A lot of times we speak of people making sacrifices for the "greater good" without any real understanding or compassion for what was actually endured by them. I've been following this whole sordid affair since the beginning, and I couldn't begin to describe how she feels. Even if I saw every tweet, death threat, rumor, assault on character, video, and everything else flung at her, I still wouldn't even be able to fathom what spending one second in her shoes feels like- what any of the victims feel like, really.

The scary part about what Brianna said is that that was when everything was still starting. I wonder if she even thinks it will ever end. I wonder if any of them can even imagine a life without this after everything that has happened. I hope with all of my heart that they find peace soon, but I am not optimistic, considering that hate dies hard.


EDIT: yes, the "wrong person" that I spoke of was Eron. Just to clarify.

 

[Tye The Czar]

I had the same reaction at first but I think from the rest of the post creathchee's 'wrong person' was Eron Gjoni not any of the people she is alleged to have slept with.



From the prior threads here's an overview of everything GG related, there is a nice timeline in there and a lot more if you want to dig further

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135783202&postcount=5

That post needs to mention that Breitbart is heavily involved with the Tea Party. They were involved in a sting that unfairly and unethically got ACORN shut down. You could essentially say that Breitbart is trying to make GamerGate their Tea Party Youth.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

I feel like we need a GG/Zoe Quinn thread every so often to root out gators on here.

 

[Lalalandia]

That post needs to mention that Breitbart is heavily involved with the Tea Party. They were involved in a sting that unfairly and unethically got ACORN shut down. You could essentially say that Breitbart is trying to make GamerGate their Tea Party Youth.

Personally I prefer it's tight focus on GG and the ZQ lies, while I happen to agree with you as to why Breitbart stuck it's oar in the post does it's job better as a neutral resource by not bringing a wider political analysis to bear.

 

[BGMNTS]

No point.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Gamers are over ...


Gamers over..


Y'know what the phrase "GAME OVER" feels like to me..?!


DYING!

Spoiler

lol

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Thankfully this doesn't make me ashamed to play video games. It'll take more than a few retards with internet access to do that.

Ok.

 

[BGMNTS]

Ok.

Solidarity.

 

[NickFire]

I feel like we need a GG/Zoe Quinn thread every so often to root out gators on here.

Do you read any other sites or boards ever? "Rooting them out" hurts the people targeted by the trolls far more than it helps, and I am baffled at how few people realize this. While its clear as day some people get short term satisfaction when someone is banned for going against the grain on these threads, elsewhere in the internets the bans are highlighted and used to support cries to keep the hate going, and frankly its worked really well for them. The bans become "evidence" of the us v them mentality preached by the trolls, and worse yet gives the trolls clicks / ad revenue when their sites become the go to news for the departed.

So keep on keeping on with the way things have been the last 9 months as pertains to rooting people out. Just remember when you tell me how its the right thing to do, that the trolls' wallets are getting fatter, and the people everyone professes to want to help get to keep dealing with the fallout.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Thankfully this doesn't make me ashamed to play video games. It'll take more than a few retards with internet access to do that.

None of this is supposed to make you ashamed to play video games.

 

[FlyinJ]

Do you read any other sites or boards ever? "Rooting them out" hurts the people targeted by the trolls far more than it helps, and I am baffled at how few people realize this. While its clear as day some people get short term satisfaction when someone is banned for going against the grain on these threads, elsewhere in the internets the bans are highlighted and used to support cries to keep the hate going, and frankly its worked really well for them. The bans become "evidence" of the us v them mentality preached by the trolls, and worse yet gives the trolls clicks / ad revenue when their sites become the go to news for the departed.

So keep on keeping on with the way things have been the last 9 months as pertains to rooting people out. Just remember when you tell me how its the right thing to do, that the trolls' wallets are getting fatter, and the people everyone professes to want to help get to keep dealing with the fallout.

So your solution is, what? We just let these guys hang out and shit up every thread with their intolerance and ignorance, spewing out the same months ago debunked talking points?

 

[BGMNTS]

None of this is supposed to make you ashamed to play video games.

Well thats good then.

I do feel bad for this girl. The internet always will be a cruel place full of bullies. 'Hive of scum and villainy' etc

 

[jon bones]

Do you read any other sites or boards ever? "Rooting them out" hurts the people targeted by the trolls far more than it helps, and I am baffled at how few people realize this. While its clear as day some people get short term satisfaction when someone is banned for going against the grain on these threads, elsewhere in the internets the bans are highlighted and used to support cries to keep the hate going, and frankly its worked really well for them. The bans become "evidence" of the us v them mentality preached by the trolls, and worse yet gives the trolls clicks / ad revenue when their sites become the go to news for the departed.

So keep on keeping on with the way things have been the last 9 months as pertains to rooting people out. Just remember when you tell me how its the right thing to do, that the trolls' wallets are getting fatter, and the people everyone professes to want to help get to keep dealing with the fallout.

Judging by your posts in that old Israel thread I am not surprised to read this...

You are free to post wherever you want but the less conservatism & bigotry we have on GAF the better. The strict moderation is part of what keeps GAF the best forum on the internet... if the racist goobergaters want to lurk GAF and cry about it elsewhere they can. I'd rather they post there and not shit up this board.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Do you read any other sites or boards ever? "Rooting them out" hurts the people targeted by the trolls far more than it helps, and I am baffled at how few people realize this. While its clear as day some people get short term satisfaction when someone is banned for going against the grain on these threads, elsewhere in the internets the bans are highlighted and used to support cries to keep the hate going, and frankly its worked really well for them. The bans become "evidence" of the us v them mentality preached by the trolls, and worse yet gives the trolls clicks / ad revenue when their sites become the go to news for the departed.

What? The sort of person harassing and attacking others are going to do it regardless of whether or not NeoGAF bans them. Do you honestly believe being banned from here triggers some comicbook supervillainy jazz where they turn evil due to ostracization? That's goofy. Stop being goofy.

 

[Slayven]

Jeff Gerstmann of Giant Bomb streams his drive to work on mixlr and takes calls from people who want to ask him questions about games and the industry, and a few weeks ago got a call from a Gamergator demanding to know why he hadn't not only done more to support Gamergate, but why he'd actively denounced it.

The whole thing is fascinating honestly to hear someone so all over the place in their sense of persecution, but the reason I'm bringing this up in this thread is because at one point the caller alluded to the Zoe Quinn thing and how it felt true and there was no smoke without fire, and Jeff succinctly pointed out even if it were true, 100% of the ethical responsibility in that scenario is on his end of the business (ie; the people covering the games) and not on the publisher/developer side (ie; Quinn).

So you're absolutely right in that the whole movement ostensibly about ethics in video games journalism is a sham because even in their bullshit allegations they go after the woman, and not the male journalist.

Jeff handled crazy very well

 

[NickFire]

So your solution is, what? We just let these guys hang out and shit up every thread with their intolerance and ignorance, spewing out the same months ago debunked talking points?

No. If they keep bringing up gg crap in threads where it is not part of the topic, then come down hard. But if its related then ignore them or show them they are wrong. Stop kicking them out of "the club" and contributing to the us vs them view preached by the trolls.

 

[Jumplion]

Jeff Gerstmann of Giant Bomb streams his drive to work on mixlr and takes calls from people who want to ask him questions about games and the industry, and a few weeks ago got a call from a Gamergator demanding to know why he hadn't not only done more to support Gamergate, but why he'd actively denounced it.

I saw that before. "Traditional Gamers" my ass, this isn't fucking gay marriage. It's that kind of language that further cements GarblyGums as a right-wing reactionary movement.

 

[jon bones]

No. If they keep bringing up gg crap in threads where it is not part of the topic, then come down hard. But if its related then ignore them or show them they are wrong. Stop kicking them out of "the club" and contributing to the us vs them view preached by the trolls.

They are being banned for being racist, homophobic or misogynistic not for being part of glibbery gams.

If you have a problem with how moderation is handled you can PM a mod about it or post elsewhere.

 

[NickFire]

They are being banned for being racist, homophobic or misogynistic not for being part of some club.

If you have a problem with how moderation is handled you can PM a mod about it or post elsewhere.

I jumped in to respond to someone who said these threads are good for rooting people out. I'm not trying to derail it into a moderation complaint. Not the intent at all.

 

[creatchee]

No. If they keep bringing up gg crap in threads where it is not part of the topic, then come down hard. But if its related then ignore them or show them they are wrong. Stop kicking them out of "the club" and contributing to the us vs them view preached by the trolls.

GAF prides itself on intelligent, topical discussion. Trolls derail threads and prevent that. Why is that hard to understand?

 

[NickFire]

What? The sort of person harassing and attacking others are going to do it regardless of whether or not NeoGAF bans them. Do you honestly believe being banned from here triggers some comicbook supervillainy jazz where they turn evil due to ostracization? That's goofy. Stop being goofy.

That's not what I was saying. Its that the trolls use what goes on elsewhere as evidence to support their hate, and also benefit from increased clicks (ad revenue) from new readers.

So anyway, does anyone have any other ideas how to make this crap end so these people can go back to developing games?

 

[Neoriceisgood]

No. If they keep bringing up gg crap in threads where it is not part of the topic, then come down hard. But if its related then ignore them or show them they are wrong. Stop kicking them out of "the club" and contributing to the us vs them view preached by the trolls.

Do you have an issue with GAF's rules and banning policy? I'm not really understanding the purpose of your posts.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

That's not what I was saying. Its that the trolls use what goes on elsewhere as evidence to support their hate, and also benefit from increased clicks (ad revenue) from new readers.

So anyway, does anyone have any other ideas how to make this crap end so these people can go back to developing games?

Gamergate aren't 'trolls' though. They're criminals. Harassment, stalking, bomb threats, etc. are all illegal acts. These sorts should not be welcomed anywhere but maybe a jail.

As for how to make things better? That's hard because the Industry is driven by money first and foremost. It doesn't have a spine to take a unified stance against Gamergate and ilk like them because they fear a sales loss. It's the same reason they are afraid to hire outspoken individuals. The best I can do as an individual is choose to not support the developers who refuse to take a stance, while continuing to support those brave enough to fight for a better industry.

 

[NickFire]

Do you have an issue with GAF's rules and banning policy? I'm not really understanding the purpose of your posts.

A couple posts above I already wrote "I jumped in to respond to someone who said these threads are good for rooting people out. I'm not trying to derail it into a moderation complaint. Not the intent at all." I'm guessing you missed that.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

I just realized that the Adam Baldwin who coined the term "gamergate" is in fact that Adam Baldwin - the firefly one. Jayne noooooo

 

[Neoriceisgood]

A couple posts above I already wrote "I jumped in to respond to someone who said these threads are good for rooting people out. I'm not trying to derail it into a moderation complaint. Not the intent at all." I'm guessing you missed that.

Yeah I saw what you replied to, your reply just came across as moderation complaints, so I figured I'd ask for clarification so I know how to interpret your post.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Mesoian]

I just realized that the Adam Baldwin who coined the term "gamergate" is in fact that Adam Baldwin - the firefly one. Jayne noooooo

Never meet your heroes.

 

[GeordieMark]

Gamergate supporters are outspokenly against academia (they feel it's a breeding grounds for feminist ideologies). So it comes as no surprise they fail to understand concepts like 'Death of the Author'.

Is that true though? Most GG supporters I have had the displeasure of interacting with aren't against academia at all. They are very confused about what they are against, but they aren't burning books just yet.

I don't care for Gamergate in the slightest, but I do think some of the posters here are indirectly keeping it alive. People are actively searching out GG hangouts just to run back to tell everyone "Hey, guess what those crazy gators are up to now". Fuck them. If you have to go looking for it, then GG is obviously doing a piss poor job of publicising their activities supposed to turn gamers against "feminazis".

Literally the only times I ever hear anything about GG these days is when it is mentioned on GAF, and most times it is by somebody who has scoured the darkest reaches of 4Chan just to keep up to speed on what garbage a bunch of loveless-man-children are spouting to each other.

It looks very much like GG has run out of steam except for a dedicated hardcore of arseholes, who will most likely always be harassing somebody somewhere for some bullshit reason, basically because they are dicks. Lets just let it die. Don't worry about wondering what gators are up to, ignore their silly message-boards, and move on.

 

[pants]

I just realized that the Adam Baldwin who coined the term "gamergate" is in fact that Adam Baldwin - the firefly one. Jayne noooooo

I kinda had a nasty exchange with him on twitter way before the #GG thing and quickly stopped following. His politics are .. interesting to say the least.

 

[NickFire]

As for how to make things better? That's hard because the Industry is driven by money first and foremost. It doesn't have a spine to take a unified stance against Gamergate and ilk like them because they fear a sales loss. The same reason they are afraid to hire outspoken individuals. The best I can do as an individual is choose to not support the developers who refuse to take a stance, while continuing to support those brave enough to fight for a better industry.

That's the same problem I have seen since this started. Very few companies (at least that follow the US corporate culture) care enough about anything beyond their bottom line. They may make a public statement here or there to pretend they care, but at the end of the day I think they will always follow the money. And that's why I think its vital to do whatever it takes to trivialize the trolls without giving them fuel for their fire.

So that's my two cents.

 

[Ty4on]

It looks very much like GG has run out of steam except for a dedicated hardcore of arseholes, who will most likely always be harassing somebody somewhere for some bullshit reason, basically because they are dicks. Lets just let it die. Don't worry about wondering what gators are up to, ignore their silly message-boards, and move on.

It'll blow up again as long as these issues persist. The issue isn't the small GG core really it their ideas and how common they are. All they need is something big to explode over be it the Zoe post or Tropes vs Women in Video Games. If we ignore them we can't challenge their views and make gaming more inclusive.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

The truth is, the core of GG (Milo, Adam Baldwin, ex-/pol/ nutjobs) don't really care about video games at all.

Adam Baldwin does VA in Codename STEAM.

Thankfully, so does Wil Wheaton

 

[GeordieMark]

It'll blow up again as long as these issues persist. The issue isn't the small GG core really it their ideas and how common they are. All they need is something big to explode over be it the Zoe post or Tropes vs Women in Video Games. If we ignore them we can't challenge their views and make gaming more inclusive.

I understand, but are they views worth challenging? Any reasonable person can see that its all rubbish. The GGers have been torn apart whenever the saga has come up in the mainstream press.

You will never completely conquer a movement like GG. There will always be idiots willing to support it. Best thing is just to marginalise them by ignoring them, rather than giving their arguments legitimacy by addressing them sensibly.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

It looks very much like GG has run out of steam except for a dedicated hardcore of arseholes, who will most likely always be harassing somebody somewhere for some bullshit reason, basically because they are dicks. Lets just let it die. Don't worry about wondering what gators are up to, ignore their silly message-boards, and move on.

Sorry, not all of us can sit back and ignore the plight of others who are under a constant barrage of harassment to the point they exit an industry. There's no "just let it die" here. These are ongoing issues that have to be given a look at and discussed. They aren't going to solve themselves.

As for them being anti-academic. May I remind you these are the people who link DIGRA, an association for game's research, to being some Illuminati overlord?

This is just one example of many where they actively blame a place of academics. Here's an excerpt declaring how graduates students are weary in pursing games due to harassment:

You might feel that these events do not relate to your research area, your position, or your students. You are wrong. The harassment members of our community have experienced is a problem that can have chilling effects on academia - both in and out of the communication field. Already, graduate students (and even some colleagues) have conveyed to us that they are frightened to speak up or study video games. When fear enters academia it is the research that suffers as all of our research becomes suspect and "under investigation."

 

[NickFire]

If we ignore them we can't challenge their views and make gaming more inclusive.

I disagree completely. Gaming has been and would continue becoming more inclusive organically because it has more acceptance among the masses and also because more diverse people play games. By highlighting the negative side though, we are probably scaring people away from gaming and stunting its growth.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I disagree completely. Gaming has been and would continue becoming more inclusive organically because it has more acceptance among the masses and also because more diverse people play games. By highlighting the negative side though, we are probably scaring people away from gaming and stunting its growth.

It's easy to say "just ignore it" when looking from the outside, but a lot of people don't have that luxury and have to live with their bullshit every day. Ignoring them is not an option in that case.

 

[GeordieMark]

Sorry, not all of us can sit back and ignore the plight of others who are under a constant barrage of harassment to the point they exit an industry. There's no "just let it die" here. These are ongoing issues that have to be given a look at and discussed. They aren't going to solve themselves.

As for them being anti-academic. May I remind you these are the people who link DIGRA, an association for game's research, to being some Illuminati overlord?

This is just one example of many where they actively blame a place of academics. Here's an excerpt declaring how graduates students are weary in pursing games due to harassment:

But GG is not one unified movement. Its a loose collection of the stupid and misinformed. Most of the people that would admit to aligning with GG have probably never even seen that. Some nutjob has knocked it up for the benefit of their little GG forum, which probably only a tiny fraction of what could be called GGers know exists.

Having a thinly veiled dig at me and saying not all of us can ignore harassment is missing the point, and a bit of a dick move. You don't exactly sound like you are on the verge of crushing GG by ferreting about where they hang out. It sounds more like telling tales to me.

Harassment is illegal and the most effective way of dealing with illegal activity is generally using law enforcement, and the courts. Certainly not trawling obscure chatrooms and forums

 

[EdibleKnife]

I disagree completely. Gaming has been and would continue becoming more inclusive organically because it has more acceptance among the masses and also because more diverse people play games. By highlighting the negative side though, we are probably scaring people away from gaming and stunting its growth.

There are already people quitting right now because they've been dealing with GG without support for I guess what must be over a year now. As a guy who doesn't work in the industry, I have the luxury of ignoring it when people like Jenn Frank, someone who did have to leave for her own sanity, still gets harassed despite being hands off at this point. Every industry has it's good and bad and the way to address the bad in the best way is to acknowledge it exists but also create an environment where people know they'll have a support system and actually be listened to and taken seriously when they are under attack. That's what makes people feel safe entering and remaining in the industry and it's in that arena that the industry and gaming community needs to work to foster.

 

[Ty4on]

I understand, but are they views worth challenging? Any reasonable person can see that its all rubbish. The GGers have been torn apart whenever the saga has come up in the mainstream press.

You will never completely conquer a movement like GG. There will always be idiots willing to support it. Best thing is just to marginalise them by ignoring them, rather than giving their arguments legitimacy by addressing them sensibly.

Then you further polarize both parties. GG can complain about something reasonable, it is shit on because it's from GG, GG points to how silly anti GG is for opposing something obvious ad infinitum.

I agree that it can give the other side some legitimacy, but I would argue part of the reason is because only the most outspoken on the other side speaks out, that way it seems like two extreme are duking it out and "the truth is in the middle".
Also if we lose all empathy for the other party we fall into the same trap. That is much easier for an outsider to stay out of than if you're a direct victim (which a lot of the vocal opponents turn into).

I disagree completely. Gaming has been and would continue becoming more inclusive organically because it has more acceptance among the masses and also because more diverse people play games. By highlighting the negative side though, we are probably scaring people away from gaming and stunting its growth.

This backlash is a result of that. I disagree with problems just being thrown under the rug. Most women will discover the issues when they turn on their microphone while tons of men will stay oblivious.

 

[NickFire]

It's easy to say "just ignore it" when looking from the outside, but a lot of people don't have that luxury and have to live with their bullshit every day. Ignoring them is not an option in that case.

It is always an option. It is a very difficult, painful, and counter-intuitive option, but it is an option that has not been tried in earnest. I look at them like chicken pox. Itches like hell, and every part of your body screams scratch it and make it better. But in reality that is making it worse / leading to scarring.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

But GG is not one unified movement. Its a loose collection of the stupid and misinformed. Most of the people that would admit to aligning with GG have probably never even seen that. Some nutjob has knocked it up for the benefit of their little GG forum, which probably only a tiny fraction of what could be called GGers know exists.

What exactly is your point?

Having a thinly veiled dig at me and saying not all of us can ignore harassment is missing the point, and a bit of a dick move. You don't exactly sound like you are on the verge of crushing GG by ferreting about where they hang out. It sounds more like telling tales to me.

It wasn't thinly-veiled. I'm clearly tired of people like you telling others to just 'ignore it'. Ignoring GamerGate doesn't make the suffering they're causing just go away.

Harassment is illegal and the most effective way of dealing with illegal activity is generally using law enforcement, and the courts. Certainly not trawling obscure chatrooms and forums

Would it shock you to learn law enforcement is delayed about a decade when it comes to effectively combating Internet harassment? We have a better shot of turning the industry around from the inside than we do getting law enforcement up to date. Despite that many are pursuing legal avenues. That doesn't mean it should be limited exclusively to it.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I disagree completely. Gaming has been and would continue becoming more inclusive organically because it has more acceptance among the masses and also because more diverse people play games. By highlighting the negative side though, we are probably scaring people away from gaming and stunting its growth.

That's demonstrably not how mindshare works. The vocal minority influences the detached masses simply by being more vocal. This is evident even in this thread.

Ignoring bullshit peddlers simply because you know what they are peddling is bullshit doesn't work in politics, it doesn't work in people's personal lives, and it doesn't work in social media. The negative stain will be there whether you ignore it or not, but you can turn mindshare if you react quickly.

I don't disagree gaming will gradually become more inclusive organically, but letting these idiots run wild instills the impression of being representative of "hardcore" types to the general (possibly mostly casual) gaming public, and will push them into believing there is a fundamental distinction between "normal" people playing phone games and manchild boogeymen who own consoles.

The brain when lazy compartmentalizes. You have to make noise to introduce more realistic shades of grey.

 

[GeordieMark]

There are already people quitting right now because they've been dealing with GG without support for I guess what must be over a year now. As a guy who doesn't work in the industry, I have the luxury of ignoring it when people like Jenn Frank, someone who did have to leave for her own sanity, still gets harassed despite being hands off at this point. Every industry has it's good and bad and the way to address the bad in the best way is to acknowledge it exists but also create an environment where people know they'll have a support system and actually be listened to and taken seriously when they are under attack. That's what makes people feel safe entering and remaining in the industry and it's in that arena that the industry and gaming community needs to work to foster.

I work in the industry and I can honestly say that nobody I've met has expressed any concern at the possibility of harassment by GG, and we have a huge amount of interest in our intern scheme. Applications were up this year, and the male/female split is closer than ever.

I'm not saying what you are alluding to doesn't happen, because it clearly does, but it is overblown.

 

[Krejlooc]

What always blows my mind in these topics is the number of people who willingly rush in to destroy themselves. Even if you believe what you say, surely you must be aware enough to know that coming in and saying shit like "Zoe Quinn is a lying harlot" or whatever is only going to get you banned.

Although I guess people who lack enough empathy to realize what they say is bullshit probably aren't self-aware enough to realize how disgusting what they say is.