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[jon bones]

I disagree completely. Gaming has been and would continue becoming more inclusive organically because it has more acceptance among the masses and also because more diverse people play games. By highlighting the negative side though, we are probably scaring people away from gaming and stunting its growth.

sorry, no - this is the same kind of bullshit logic racists use when they say "people who bring up racism are the real racists!"

 

[GeordieMark]

What exactly is your point?



It wasn't thinly veiled. I'm tired of people like you telling others to just 'ignore it'. Ignoring GamerGate doesn't make the suffering they're causing just go away.



Would it shock you to learn law enforcement is delayed about a decade when it comes to effectively combat Internet harassment? We have a better shot of turning the industry around from the inside than we do getting law enforcement up to date.

If you can't grasp my point, read the post again until the penny starts to drop.

I'm kinda tired of guys like you too. You seem to think you are some sort of hero, but you have achieved sod all in reality. Coming on GAF to spread word about what the evil GGers are up to is not really much help to anyone anymore. There was a time when the education helped, but that time has passed.

Also, the law where I live can be very quick to act against online harassment. I'd trust the law over internet vigilantes any day.

 

[Contra11]

She developed a game called Depression Quest witch looks like a school project .. and now she talk about the industry like she is a real video game developer .. can someone tell me did Amy Hennig say anything like this about games industry

 

[NoblesseOblige]

If you can't grasp my point, read the post again until the penny starts to drop.

Done. Still not seeing it. You may want to better articulate it.

I'm kinda tired of guys like you too. You seem to think you are some sort of hero, but you have achieved sod all in reality. Coming on GAF to spread word about what the evil GGers are up to is not really much help to anyone anymore. There was a time when the education helped, but that time has passed.

Rest assured I see myself as no hero. In fact I have previously claimed to be too cowardly to stand up in the way people like Zoe Quinn or Anita sarkeesian are. I'm simply a faceless nobody who wishes for the same thing they want but doesn't have the ability or fortitude to put myself out there. The best I can do is support those who do have the courage.

Also, the law where I live can be very quick to act against online harassment. I'd trust the law over internet vigilantes any day.

Then you don't live in the majority of the US, where most of this situation is occurring.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Also, the law where I live can be very quick to act against online harassment. I'd trust the law over internet vigilantes any day.

Yeah, I guess that's why Quinn's problems were quickly fixed...

I don't get your logic... If we can't fix misogyny in the gaming community right now in a snap, we shouldn't talk about it? The fact that you personally don't see it around you and think it's "overblown" doesn't change reality a bit.

 

[Lalalandia]

Then you further polarize both parties. GG can complain about something reasonable, it is shit on because it's from GG, GG points to how silly anti GG is for opposing something obvious ad infinitum.

I've yet to see them point to anything legitimate that hadn't been pointed to by multiple people not in GG long before GG was a thing. All of the things GG has 'uncovered' are BS or the afore-mentioned pre-existing issues. Defining this as a binary between extremes is probably the most success GG has had, obscuring the reality that the binary is actually 'GG vs rational thought'.

She developed a game called Depression Quest witch looks like a school project .. and now she talk about the industry like she is a real video game developer .. can someone tell me did Amy Hennig say anything like this about games industry

Tired of posting on NeoGAF per chance? I presume that despite your extensive research into gender issues in gaming you've just somehow missed the other women who have been victims of this BS in the past like Jade Redmond?

 

[Lalalandia]

DP, sorry

 

[Deleted member 126221]

She developed a game called Depression Quest witch looks like a school project .. and now she talk about the industry like she is a real video game developer .. can someone tell me did Amy Hennig say anything like this about games industry

According to you, what should be the minimum budget of your game to earn the right to denounce harassment?

 

[cirrhosis]

She developed a game called Depression Quest witch looks like a school project .. and now she talk about the industry like she is a real video game developer .. can someone tell me did Amy Hennig say anything like this about games industry

didn't really want that gaf account anyway, eh?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

She developed a game [...] and now she talk about the industry like she is a real video game developer ..

Develops a game. Not a game developer. I think you broke logic.

 

[aasoncott]

She developed a game called Depression Quest witch looks like a school project .. and now she talk about the industry like she is a real video game developer .. can someone tell me did Amy Hennig say anything like this about games industry

Uh, she also made the game Kojima said was his game of the year. How is that not a "real developer"?

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I guess we'd better shut up, people who aren't affected by this are sick of hearing about it.

I remember how sick everyone in the US was of hearing about Katrina every day, and eventually the national news moved on so that everyone could go back to their bubble and worry about their own problems. I get it, I really do. But as someone affected, it took 2 months to get a new job, 3 months for the landlord to get our place fixed, and 5 years before we got another 24 hour Walmart

There's nothing wrong with dealing with your own shit and seeing the world from your own perspective. But if you're sick of hearing about people being forced to be vocal about an ongoing problem, and you have the luxury of ignoring it, please do so instead of wasting breath downplaying other people's problems based on your conjecture.

 

[Brazil]

What always blows my mind in these topics is the number of people who willingly rush in to destroy themselves. Even if you believe what you say, surely you must be aware enough to know that coming in and saying shit like "Zoe Quinn is a lying harlot" or whatever is only going to get you banned.

Although I guess people who lack enough empathy to realize what they say is bullshit probably aren't self-aware enough to realize how disgusting what they say is.

They actually believe the things they say. I mean-

She developed a game called Depression Quest witch looks like a school project .. and now she talk about the industry like she is a real video game developer .. can someone tell me did Amy Hennig say anything like this about games industry

Jesus.

 

[Krejlooc]

She developed a game called Depression Quest witch looks like a school project .. and now she talk about the industry like she is a real video game developer .. can someone tell me did Amy Hennig say anything like this about games industry

Are you aware that you're basically telling someone who is talking about how noninclusive the gaming industry is that they aren't part of the "real" game industry?

They actually believe the things they say. I mean-

I'm sure there are bunch of racist pricks on this site who believe some terrible shit about black people or asian people or hispanics or whatever.

Thing is, they know enough to at least know putting their crap out in the open isn't socially acceptable. It's mind blowing that people don't connect the dots with stuff like this.

 

[aeolist]

Is that true though? Most GG supporters I have had the displeasure of interacting with aren't against academia at all. They are very confused about what they are against, but they aren't burning books just yet.

there's been a lot of mockery of game academics, especially after they started going after katherine cross

there was also the whole DIGRA nonsense, which is supposedly part of the cultural marxist conspiracy to destroy traditional western values

 

[Orayn]

She developed a game called Depression Quest witch looks like a school project .. and now she talk about the industry like she is a real video game developer .. can someone tell me did Amy Hennig say anything like this about games industry

You're a video game developer if you develop video games. You can take your nonsense qualifications of "real" games and shove 'em.

 

[GeordieMark]

Yeah, I guess that's why Quinn's problems were quickly fixed...

I don't get your logic... If we can't fix misogyny in the gaming community right now in a snap, we shouldn't talk about it? The fact that you personally don't see it around you and think it's "overblown" doesn't change reality a bit.

Where did I say don't speak about it or try and resolve it? All I said was that too many people think they are going something constructive by visiting GG hangouts and reporting back. I fail to see how this helps?

 

[creatchee]

I just realized that the Adam Baldwin who coined the term "gamergate" is in fact that Adam Baldwin - the firefly one. Jayne noooooo

He also played Casey on Chuck, which is among my favorite shows of all time. Luckily, I learned long ago to not let an artist's personal politics interfere with my enjoyment of the art itself. Otherwise, I would probably miss out on a lot of things that I love.

You will never completely conquer a movement like GG. There will always be idiots willing to support it. Best thing is just to marginalise them by ignoring them, rather than giving their arguments legitimacy by addressing them sensibly.

The anonymity of it all doesn't help either. It's easy to harass somebody with a clever internet handle and a profile picture of an anime character, but that same person might give pause to doing things like that when their real name and picture is out there for all to see. As much as I cherish privacy, that doesn't mean that people can and should act like assholes to others with no consequences, whether legal or otherwise.

The irony is that GGers talk about how strong and courageous they are, all while clinging to the protective blanket of pseudonyms and a misunderstanding of freedom of speech (among other things).

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Where did I say don't speak about it or try and resolve it? All I said was that too many people think they are going something constructive by visiting GG hangouts and reporting back. I fail to see how this helps?

And I think denouncing the actions of these clowns can help, even if it doesn't fix things right away.

 

[napata]

Tired of posting on NeoGAF per chance? I presume that despite your extensive research into gender issues in gaming you've just somehow missed the other women who have been victims of this BS in the past like Jade Redmond?

What happened with Jade Redmond?

 

[GeordieMark]

Done. Still not seeing it. You may want to better articulate it.



Rest assured I see myself as no hero. In fact I have previously claimed to be too cowardly to stand up in the way people like Zoe Quinn or Anita sarkeesian are. I'm simply a faceless nobody who wishes for the same thing they want but doesn't have the ability or fortitude to put myself out there. The best I can do is support those who do have the courage.



Then you don't live in the majority of the US, where most of this situation is occurring.

Or maybe it just flys over your head...

How very noble and selfless of you to admit. Did you read that before you posted? That's the most sanctimonious garbage I've read in ages.

And by the way, this isn't unique to the US either.

 

[NickFire]

sorry, no - this is the same kind of bullshit logic racists use when they say "people who bring up racism are the real racists!"

Would you please stop with the personal and off topic attacks? I get you don't like me for thinking differently than you on certain things, but this is getting ridiculous. First you bring up my opposing view in an OT discussion completely unrelated to gaming or this thread, and now you are backhandedly calling me racist for thinking gaming has becoming more inclusive organically.

Enough already. We both see a common problem. Just because we support different ways to deal with it does not mean we need to bring politics and backhanded racism charges to the table.

 

[Contra11]

She's a video game developer because she develops video games. You can take your nonsense qualifications of "real" games and shove 'em.

I will shove them right up your mother fuckin ass

 

[NoblesseOblige]

All I said was that too many people think they are going something constructive by visiting GG hangouts and reporting back. I fail to see how this helps?

So you came into this discussion to make a completely irrelevant point? Got it.

I'm the first one you quoted and none of what you quoted included visiting GG hangouts to report back.

I will shove them right up your mother fuckin ass

Well now, at least you're committed to what I assume is your soon deserved exile.

 

[Brazil]

Are you aware that you're basically telling someone who is talking about how noninclusive the gaming industry is that they aren't part of the "real" game industry?

I'm sure there are bunch of racist pricks on this site who believe some terrible shit about black people or asian people or hispanics or whatever.

Thing is, they know enough to at least know putting their crap out in the open isn't socially acceptable. It's mind blowing that people don't connect the dots with stuff like this.

This stuff is kinda new, though. People had to learn over the past 5 or so decades that we won't take racist shit anymore... And now they'll have to learn the hard way that, no matter how strongly they feel about women ruining their hobby, they need to shut up and shove those feelings up.

I, for one, love how open about their ignorance they are. I mean, the more we get rid of people like this:

I will shove them right up your mother fuckin ass

The better this community becomes.

 

[EdibleKnife]

I will shove them right up your mother fuckin ass

 

[vcc]

I'm sure there are bunch of racist pricks on this site who believe some terrible shit about black people or asian people or hispanics or whatever.

Thing is, they know enough to at least know putting their crap out in the open isn't socially acceptable. It's mind blowing that people don't connect the dots with stuff like this.

On a lot of poorly moderated places on the internet; they are doing a great job of making racism and hate in general more acceptable. It's the whole Overton window thing. Reddit went from being a fairly progressive tech centered aggregator into a more right wing reactionary place. Some of the defaults often have very obviously racists things pushed out. Like TIL, AdviceAnimals, Videos etc... This happened to Digg as well and was part of it's demise.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I will shove them right up your mother fuckin ass

Great account kamikaze. I'm sure all your friends will be proud you proved once again how Gaf is such a circle-jerk and doesn't accept intelligent, well-developed opposing views.

 

[Orayn]

What happened with Jade Redmond?

Among other things, some weirdo made a comic that simultaneously made a gross sexual depiction of her and implied that she was a recipient of "positive discrimination." It was pretty shitty.

I will shove them right up your mother fuckin ass

 

[GeordieMark]

So you came into this discussion to make a completely irrelevant point? Got it.

I'm the first one you quoted and none of what you quoted included visiting GG hangouts to report back.

If you can't see the relevance, that's your issue, not mine.

I don't care whether you understand or not to be honest.

 

[Toxi]

Uh, she also made the game Kojima said was his game of the year. How is that not a "real developer"?

Huh, this is the first time I've heard of Framed and it's pretty awesome.

I will shove them right up your mother fuckin ass

Quality poster right here.

 

[Lalalandia]

What happened with Jade Redmond?

To be clear this is a reference to the issues she had to put with around 2007 with a persistent reduction of her to the 'hot dev' or 'she knows nothing and is being pushed because PC' BS (http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/19/the-trouble-with-jade/). I used this as an example to make clear that gender based harassment is neither new nor restricted to indie devs who create games w/TWINE.

Also I'm an idiot it's Jade Raymond.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

If you can't see the relevance, that's your issue, not mine.

I don't care whether you understand or not to be honest.

If nobody understands your point, there might be a problem... Maybe you don't care, but why post in the first place?

 

[Oersted]

She developed a game called Depression Quest witch looks like a school project .. and now she talk about the industry like she is a real video game developer .. can someone tell me did Amy Hennig say anything like this about games industry

"Is Quinn a real developer?" "Is Sarkeesian a real gamer?" ...

Don't you guys grow tired of your dehumanize tactics?

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I will shove them right up your mother fuckin ass

I just had the biggest chuckle of the day right there.

Gamer Gate stuff really brings out the more interesting parts of the community.

 

[jon bones]

Would you please stop with the personal and off topic attacks? I get you don't like me for thinking differently than you on certain things, but this is getting ridiculous. First you bring up my opposing view in an OT discussion completely unrelated to gaming or this thread, and now you are backhandedly calling me racist for thinking gaming has becoming more inclusive organically.

Enough already. We both see a common problem. Just because we support different ways to deal with it does not mean we need to bring politics and backhanded racism charges to the table.

i didn't call you a racist at all, i'm saying the logic between your "bringing attention to a problem is what is causing the problem" is the same as that used by racists when they say "bringing up race is a bigger problem than actual racism."

women aren't leaving the hobby/industry because of news articles about gender issues, they're leaving because of the near-constant harassment they face. the only way to solve the issue is to bring light to it and face it head on, not ignore it and hope social change happens 'organically.'

The irony is that GGers talk about how strong and courageous they are, all while clinging to the protective blanket of pseudonyms and a misunderstanding of freedom of speech (among other things).

this is a very common misunderstanding that i don't get. you agree to a terms of service on a privately held website that denounces hate speech. you spew hate speech. you get banned. what does that have to do with the government?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

If nobody understands your point, there might be a problem... Maybe you don't care, but why post in the first place?

I think it's best to listen to Geordie's advice and ignore the troll (him). He's not making any relevant points so it may as well be dropped.

 

[Interfectum]

She developed a game called Depression Quest witch looks like a school project .. and now she talk about the industry like she is a real video game developer .. can someone tell me did Amy Hennig say anything like this about games industry

Typo or Freudian slip?

 

[Matty77]

She developed a game called Depression Quest witch looks like a school project .. and now she talk about the industry like she is a real video game developer .. can someone tell me did Amy Hennig say anything like this about games industry

Really? enough women in and around the industry have been treated in such a way publicly that I don't need to hear it I can see it all the time. Like right in your post!

 

[GeordieMark]

If nobody understands your point, there might be a problem... Maybe you don't care, but why post in the first place?

Or maybe I'm just arguing with two people who will never get it, no matter how long we go around in circles.

 

[Noaloha]

My guess is that guy has a bunch of his friends around, or he's IMed them to watch a gaf thread, and he was all "watch this watch this, gunna do something lulzy and get banned topkek".

Cue twenty minutes of waiting and he's not been banned yet, so he's just trying to expedite matters because it's all getting a bit awkward for him.

 

[fushi]

This is a good post - but you're missing one important (and sad) fact - she never "had sex with the wrong person".

Her psycho ex made a bunch of wild lies & accusations and the internet hate mob that was already going at Anita Sarkeesian turned on Zoe as well (without verifying anything Eron Gjoni said about ZQ).

I am confused. Where was it proven that Eron made up all that stuff he wrote? Because that moves the whole fiasco way past the point of absurdity.

Google was not much help, but I am on the phone right now anyway.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

this is a very common misunderstanding that i don't get. you agree to a terms of service on a privately held website that denounces hate speech. you spew hate speech. you get banned. what does that have to do with the government?

A lot of people fail to understand that free speech only applies to government censorship. They don't understand that the Internet, as a conglomerate of private sites, don't have to give everyone a platform to say whatever they desire.

 

[cirrhosis]

I am confused. Where was it proven that Eron made up all that stuff he wrote? Because that moves the whole fiasco way past the point of absurdity.

Google was not much help, but I am on the phone right now anyway.

Read up on this post

 

[Emitan]

I will shove them right up your mother fuckin ass

pls go back 2 4chan

 

[GeordieMark]

I think it's best to listen to Geordie's advice and ignore the troll (him). He's not making any relevant points so it may as well be dropped.

So I'm the troll, but you are the one resorting to childish name-calling?

How very grown up and big of you. You've obviously been too close to GG for too long.

 

[Oersted]

I am confused. Where was it proven that Eron made up all that stuff he wrote? Because that moves the whole fiasco way past the point of absurdity.

Google was not much help, but I am on the phone right now anyway.

The review never existed to begin with. And it already is absurd. Loathsome, tragic and absurd.

 

[jon bones]

TBH I still don't understand what the problem is for having sex.

It's always confusing when I see this whole "omigod a slut" / "omigod friendzone" dichotomy from the same field.

(I mean, cheating is bad too, but how does that warrant any sort of vigilante justice? I heard the statistics for cheating was around 20% to 30% anyway. It seems odd only one or two people are singled out for it.)

it's not confusing at all, these women are simply sleeping with the wrong people. a goober'll allow a woman to have sex, provided it is only with him.

 

[jstripes]

The other thing that amazes me is that gators are terrified of video games being "regulated", but at the start of all this they created a lengthy and ridiculous manifesto spelling out exactly how they want game journalism to be regulated.

I will shove them right up your mother fuckin ass

Looks like we found a gator!

 

[Ty4on]

I've yet to see them point to anything legitimate that hadn't been pointed to by multiple people not in GG long before GG was a thing. All of the things GG has 'uncovered' are BS or the afore-mentioned pre-existing issues. Defining this as a binary between extremes is probably the most success GG has had, obscuring the reality that the binary is actually 'GG vs rational thought'.

I should have included an example. When I wrote it I thought about the death threats against TotalBiscuit which were as I remember it thankfully recognized and condemned. If they weren't then that could aid GGs "both sides harass equally".
That and acting like the victims weren't rational was blown up to a hypothetical and I should have been clearer about it. The victims have been exceptionally good at tackling the harassment and I have no idea how they're able to discuss with some of them.

I totally agree with your assessment they they've been the most successful blurring the truth which is evident in depressingly many posts here. It reminds me of how Putin supports every fringe group to make the politics more confusing.